Jaring fallen over AGAIN or TMNet sabotaging Jaring?
Dave Baker
saying "Illegal host/domain name found".
Anyone know what happened here? Whatever it is, it's not very professional!
How can Malaysia expect to run a K economy when these sort of things are
common?
(cc'd to n...@jaring.my in the hope of getting an explanation, though they
STILL haven't explained the last 2 problems, so I'm not holding my breath...)
Dave
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
>From: Internet Mail Delivery <postm...@ipop5.tm.net.my>
>Subject: Delivery Notification: Delivery has failed
>To: bru...@attglobal.net
>
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-language: en-US
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
>This report relates to a message you sent with the following header fields:
>
> Return-path: <bru...@attglobal.net>
> Received: from tcp-daemon.ipop5.tm.net.my by ipop5.tm.net.my
> (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001))
> id <0GOB00E...@ipop5.tm.net.my> (original mail from
bru...@attglobal.net)
> ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
> Received: from Bruce ([210.186.216.77])
> by ipop5.tm.net.my (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001))
> with SMTP id <0GOB00E...@ipop5.tm.net.my> for Da...@baker.pc.my; Fri,
> 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:39:05 +0800
> From: Bruce Underwood <bru...@attglobal.net>
> Subject: Fwd: Message from the Connect Web Site
> X-Sender: bru...@pop1.attglobal.net
> To: Da...@baker.pc.my
> Message-id: <0GOB00E...@ipop5.tm.net.my>
> MIME-version: 1.0
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Demo
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
>Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:
>
> Recipient address: Da...@baker.pc.my
> Reason: Illegal host/domain name found
>
>Reporting-MTA: dns;ipop5.tm.net.my (tcp-daemon)
>
>Original-recipient: rfc822;Da...@baker.pc.my
>Final-recipient: rfc822;Da...@baker.pc.my
>Action: failed
>Status: 5.4.4 (Illegal host/domain name found)
>Return-path: <bru...@attglobal.net>
>Received: from tcp-daemon.ipop5.tm.net.my by ipop5.tm.net.my
> (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001))
> id <0GOB00E...@ipop5.tm.net.my> (original mail from
bru...@attglobal.net)
> ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
>Received: from Bruce ([210.186.216.77])
> by ipop5.tm.net.my (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001))
> with SMTP id <0GOB00E...@ipop5.tm.net.my> for Da...@baker.pc.my; Fri,
> 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:39:05 +0800
>From: Bruce Underwood <bru...@attglobal.net>
>Subject: Fwd: Message from the Connect Web Site
>X-Sender: bru...@pop1.attglobal.net
>To: Da...@baker.pc.my
>Message-id: <0GOB00E...@ipop5.tm.net.my>
>MIME-version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Demo
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
Hasbullah Bin Pit (sebol)
Dave Baker wrote:
--
Hasbullah Bin Pit (sebol)
" Satu set ARAHAN langkah demi langkah yang memberitahu komputer
untuk melaksanakan TUGAS tertentu bagi menghasilkan KEPUTUSAN
diingini" - Cik Nor Edayu Adros
Dave Baker
<se...@ikhlas.com> wrote:
>maybe the DNS server which the mailserver use was e2fsck up
Paul Saccani in Australia just told me that email to me has been bouncing
since July with the same error message! I do get over 400 emails per day, so
most of them are getting through. However, I'm worried about what DOESN'T get
through. Possibly some aren't as patient as Paul...
Dave
Philip Chee
>My friend was trying to email me this morning, and got a bounce message
>saying "Illegal host/domain name found".
[.....]
>(cc'd to n...@jaring.my in the hope of getting an explanation, though they
>STILL haven't explained the last 2 problems, so I'm not holding my breath...)
Your friend is trying to email you from a tm.net.my account. If
this were a jaring problem then the error message might be:
domain not found or
domain unavailable or
domain unreachable.
Instead it says:
>>Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:
>> Recipient address: Da...@baker.pc.my
>> Reason: Illegal host/domain name found
Since <baker.pc.my> is a perfectly valid and legal FQDN (fully
qualified domain name) I would assume that the mail server giving
you that error message:
>>Reporting-MTA: dns;ipop5.tm.net.my (tcp-daemon)
is totally broken Note it didn't even bother checking jaring's name
servers but immediately bounced the message as illegal).
>>Original-recipient: rfc822;Da...@baker.pc.my
>>Final-recipient: rfc822;Da...@baker.pc.my
>>Action: failed
>>Status: 5.4.4 (Illegal host/domain name found)
>>Return-path: <bru...@attglobal.net>
>>Received: from tcp-daemon.ipop5.tm.net.my by ipop5.tm.net.my
>> (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001))
>> id <0GOB00E...@ipop5.tm.net.my> (original mail from bru...@attglobal.net)
>> ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
>>Received: from Bruce ([210.186.216.77])
>> by ipop5.tm.net.my (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001))
>> with SMTP id <0GOB00E...@ipop5.tm.net.my> for Da...@baker.pc.my; Fri,
I'm not familiar with tmnet but shouldn't your friend be using
smtp.tm.net.my for outgoing mail instead of ipop5?
>> 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
And why is tm.net running it's servers on Singapore Standard Time.
Isn't that rather unpatriotic for our "national carrier" ?!?
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ş 20461.08 ş My reality check just bounced.
Dave Baker
>Since <baker.pc.my> is a perfectly valid and legal FQDN (fully
>qualified domain name) I would assume that the mail server giving
>you that error message:
>
>>>Reporting-MTA: dns;ipop5.tm.net.my (tcp-daemon)
>
>is totally broken Note it didn't even bother checking jaring's name
>servers but immediately bounced the message as illegal).
Ok, that was on the 14th. Here's one on the 12th from someone in Australia
for you to diagnose - unfortunately the header info isn't quite as
comprehensive:
>To: safer...@iname.com, postm...@cc.curtin.edu.au
>Subject: Delivery Notification: Delivery has failed
>From: PMDF e-Mail Interconnect <postm...@cc.curtin.edu.au>
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:13:44 +0800
>
>This report relates to a message you sent with the following header
>fields:
>
> Message-id: <ta7e1ug0ktb8bf4tl...@4ax.com>
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:12:00 +0800
> From: Paul Saccani <safer...@iname.com>
> To: da...@baker.pc.my
> Subject: Christmas presents.
>
>Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:
>
> Recipient address: da...@baker.pc.my
> Reason: Illegal host/domain name found
>
>
>
>Action: failed
>Status: 5.4.4 (Illegal host/domain name found)
>Original-recipient: rfc822;da...@baker.pc.my
>Final-recipient: rfc822;da...@baker.pc.my
So, same error message, but coming from Australia. 2 servers both broken is
less likely than 1 receiving end being broken, though not impossible.
>I'm not familiar with tmnet but shouldn't your friend be using
>smtp.tm.net.my for outgoing mail instead of ipop5?
Not sure - I'll find out. It's worked fine for a month since they got ISDN
though - they send out over 1000 emails per day all over the world.
Dave
Ahmad Sayuthi
> Paul Saccani in Australia just told me that email to me has been
> bouncing since July with the same error message! I do get over 400
> emails per day, so most of them are getting through. However, I'm
> worried about what DOESN'T get through. Possibly some aren't as
> patient as Paul...
400 from just one address...?!!
Boy, you must be very popular with the spammers!:)
Or are these messages from mailing lists?
--
ICQ: 23582887 wri...@time.net.my Star-TechCentral.com
Alphaque.com Xnews Opera NoteTab Pegasus s°e°i°iń
Dave Baker
>400 from just one address...?!!
No, 400 TO just one address! :-)
>Boy, you must be very popular with the spammers!:)
>Or are these messages from mailing lists?
They are computer to computer emails - the data is created automatically &
sent to my computer where it is filtered off automatically & processed
automatically. The end result is a map on my computer that shows the position
of 30+ boats & ships around the world, with positions updated every 15
minutes (actually that is 2880! At the moment I have most of them disabled
from being sent to me, so I'm only getting 400 incoming emails per day)
If you are interested, the emails are sent to a web server & new maps are
created every 30 minutes. Have a look at:
http://www.meridiansurveys.com.my/Clients/Free/MAS2001/MAS2001.htm
to see a Malaysian guy driving his Proton Satria around the world. He is in
Karachi at the moment. He was supposed to go from Islamabad to Kandahar, but
the present situation makes that a problem. He has a system on board that
lets us know his position every 15 minutes, though he turns it off at night
sometimes while the car is parked. Click on the Middle East map to get a
blown up picture...
The site is in the middle of being transferred from the USA to Malaysia at
the moment, so there are some bits missing - the background colours, some
icons, etc. Should be fixed soon - if Techbyte doesn't go away on Hari Raya
holidays! :-).
Dave
Dinesh Nair
> >> 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
>
> And why is tm.net running it's servers on Singapore Standard Time.
> Isn't that rather unpatriotic for our "national carrier" ?!?
it's a solaris box, and we all know what they defaulted do, dont we ? :)
--
Regards, /\_/\ "All dogs go to heaven."
din...@alphaque.com (0 0) http://www.alphaque.com/
+==========================----oOO--(_)--OOo----==========================+
| for a in past present future; do |
| for b in clients employers associates relatives neighbours pets; do |
| echo "The opinions here in no way reflect the opinions of my $a $b." |
| done; done |
+=========================================================================+
Ahmad Sayuthi
> If you are interested, the emails are sent to a web server & new
> maps are created every 30 minutes. Have a look at:
>
> http://www.meridiansurveys.com.my/Clients/Free/MAS2001/MAS2001.htm
Phew! The page weighed in at almost 1MB:)
Yeah, I got the latest update and blown up map stamped 17:41 of today.
The guy's still in Islamabad. He's likely to be stuck there for a bit
yet despite relative peace returning to Kandahar.
Dave Baker
Dave Baker
>> http://www.meridiansurveys.com.my/Clients/Free/MAS2001/MAS2001.htm
>
>Phew! The page weighed in at almost 1MB:)
Yeah, that one is a bit big - I normally go in there & quickly click on the
map I want to see rather than wait for it to load completely. The date on the
right column should let you know which is the current map, but we are having
a bit of trouble getting the php working since the move, so they are blank at
the moment.
You can go straight to:
http://www.meridiansurveys.com.my/Clients/Free/MAS2001/MAS_MidEast.php
to see him (until he drives off the edge onto the next map)
>Yeah, I got the latest update and blown up map stamped 17:41 of today.
>The guy's still in Islamabad. He's likely to be stuck there for a bit
>yet despite relative peace returning to Kandahar.
I mentioned the URL at the wrong time, just when we were in the middle of
moving the site back to Malaysia, so it was a bit scrambled. It should show
now that he is in Karachi (well, it looks like Karachi to me - I haven't done
a proper check). This is way off his first intended route & even way off his
amended route which was supposed to go from Islamabad to the Pakistan/Iran
border & off to Tehran. He might be going to put the car on another boat to
send it somewhere out of the area. I guess he'll send an email soon to let us
know.
Dave
Philip Chee
>Philip Chee wrote:
>> >> 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
>> And why is tm.net running it's servers on Singapore Standard Time.
>> Isn't that rather unpatriotic for our "national carrier" ?!?
>it's a solaris box, and we all know what they defaulted do, dont we ? :)
Yah. But every Sun server I get, the first thing I do is to blow
away the filesystems and reinstall from scratch. Second thing is to
recompile the timezone files and set the time zone to Malaysia.
Don't the tm.net sysadmins check to see what their servers are
actually doing? Hmm, the Solaris login buffer overflow patch is
still a point patch and hasn't made it into the latest security
patch cluster. Hmm, dinesh, I wonder if the tm.net sysadmins have
patched their servers yet (Nudge Nudge Hint Hint).
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ş 20408.86 ş If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.
Dinesh Nair
> recompile the timezone files and set the time zone to Malaysia.
and how many know to use zic ? :)
> actually doing? Hmm, the Solaris login buffer overflow patch is
> still a point patch and hasn't made it into the latest security
in fact, sun's not published the patch yet. it is only available to support
paying customers.
> patch cluster. Hmm, dinesh, I wonder if the tm.net sysadmins have
> patched their servers yet (Nudge Nudge Hint Hint).
wonder if tm.net sysadmins removed all trojans from when they were breached
in 1997 ? (nudge nudge wink wink) :)
Ahmad Sayuthi
> Don't the tm.net sysadmins check to see what their servers are
> actually doing? Hmm, the Solaris login buffer overflow patch is
> still a point patch and hasn't made it into the latest security
> patch cluster. Hmm, dinesh, I wonder if the tm.net sysadmins have
> patched their servers yet (Nudge Nudge Hint Hint).
tmnet sysadmin: "Of course! We always check to see that the lights are
flashing and blinking when we leave our coffee mugs on them. Good
enough what... "patch"...? What's this `patch' thing? Never heard
before... New term lar." ;)
Ahmad Sayuthi
Yes, this one is a lot smaller - only around 100KB.
The latest is stamped 0:54 hrs. Is this our local time or theirs?
It says he's "620.1km 34.0" to Islamabad"
My geography isn't too hot - does the car icon show where he is at
present?
> border & off to Tehran. He might be going to put the car on
> another boat to send it somewhere out of the area. I guess he'll
> send an email soon to let us know.
If the icon represents where he is, that might appear to be what he's
attempting to do. It's right on the west coast of Pakistan. It looks
like he's bypassing Afghanistan and going straight to Iran by boat.
Smart move too. The guy must be bored to death waiting for entrance to
Kandahar:)
Dave Baker
>> http://www.meridiansurveys.com.my/Clients/Free/MAS2001/MAS_MidEast.
>> php
>The latest is stamped 0:54 hrs. Is this our local time or theirs?
That's Malaysian time. If he is just staying somewhere overnight & continuing
on the next day, he leaves it on overnight. If he knows the car will be off
for a few days (doing paperwork or whatever), he turns the system off. We get
the battery voltage sent to us with every report so we can tell him if he
needs to turn it off.
>It says he's "620.1km 34.0" to Islamabad"
>My geography isn't too hot - does the car icon show where he is at
>present?
Yes, the icon shows where he is with an accuracy of better than 10 metres
(though you can't zoom in on these maps at present, so you can't take
advantage of that accuracy). The distance to target is always to the next
location that he is supposed to be heading towards on his preset route. As we
don't know where he is going next, it is stuck on Islamabad at the moment.
Dave
Philip Chee
>> recompile the timezone files and set the time zone to Malaysia.
>and how many know to use zic ? :)
A good sysadmin may not know how to use zic.
But a good sysadmin knows how to use man.
I used man.
I typed man -k timezone at the $prompt and followed the
instructions. It isn't rocket science, really!
>wonder if tm.net sysadmins removed all trojans from when they were
>breached in 1997 ? (nudge nudge wink wink) :)
Surely they must be running one or more of tripwire, ASET, or one of
Casper Dik's MD5 fingerprint utilities? I mean these are servers
connected to the public internet innit?
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
þ 20442.47 þ What are the instructions doing in the trash??
Philip Chee
>phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee) wrote Sat 15 Dec 2001 09:09:03p
>> Don't the tm.net sysadmins check to see what their servers are
>> actually doing? Hmm, the Solaris login buffer overflow patch is
>tmnet sysadmin: "Of course! We always check to see that the lights are
>flashing and blinking when we leave our coffee mugs on them. Good
>enough what... "patch"...? What's this `patch' thing? Never heard
>before... New term lar." ;)
"How nice of Sun to provide these retractable coffee-cup holders on
all their servers".
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20445.80 ž Get gun. Shoot computer. Turn off lights...
Ahmad Sayuthi
> "How nice of Sun to provide these retractable coffee-cup holders
> on all their servers".
"True true. Very handy that one. Wonder why some people put those shiny
discs inside them instead and block the hole...? Weird lar, these
people."
Wahlau de NewsMan Away
wrote:
>"How nice of Sun to provide these retractable coffee-cup holders on
>all their servers".
they probably still trying hard to figure out how to play VCDs from
pasar malam, to watch them on the Sun 21" monitor.
well, such a luxury. :)
regards,
wahlau-eh ---> http://www.wahlau.org -----
-------------------------> got kangtao? <----
http://www.kangtao.com get your kangtao here!
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Philip Chee
>On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:30:29 GMT, phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee)
>wrote:
>>"How nice of Sun to provide these retractable coffee-cup holders on
>>all their servers".
>they probably still trying hard to figure out how to play VCDs from
>pasar malam, to watch them on the Sun 21" monitor.
All the new sun servers come with DVD drives so you may not be far wrong.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20428.57 ž Is there life before coffee?
sabre 2/3 tiger news
> On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:30:29 GMT, phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee)
> wrote:
>> "How nice of Sun to provide these retractable coffee-cup holders on
>> all their servers".
> they probably still trying hard to figure out how to play VCDs from
> pasar malam, to watch them on the Sun 21" monitor.
Uh ... Until the find out those Sun 21" monitor works perfectly with
their Wintel desktops. ;-}
> well, such a luxury. :)
Hmm ... since they're not doing much work on the servers anyway, the
crap 15" monitor from their Wintel desktops would do on the Sun servers
... right?
regards,
sabre
sabre 2/3 tiger news
>>> 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
> And why is tm.net running it's servers on Singapore Standard Time.
> Isn't that rather unpatriotic for our "national carrier" ?!?
You know the answer for that Philip.
The nice Sun SEs didn't bother adding MYT timezone into the Solaris
config files.
Uhh ... I still have some Solaris on Sparc and Intel to care for, at new
place. Though only a 450, not as big as that 10000. ;-}
regards,
sabre
Dinesh Nair
> But a good sysadmin knows how to use man.
> I used man.
ok, which brings back an old usenet favourite: how many know to rtfm ? :)
> Surely they must be running one or more of tripwire, ASET, or one of
> Casper Dik's MD5 fingerprint utilities? I mean these are servers
are they ?
Dinesh Nair
> they probably still trying hard to figure out how to play VCDs from
> pasar malam, to watch them on the Sun 21" monitor.
ahem, i know people who chucked a vcd into a notebook, then hooked up a
projector to the vga port and watched the movie on the 'big screen'. :)
Philip Chee
>wah...@remove-spam.gmx.net writes:
>> On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:30:29 GMT, phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee) wrote:
>>> "How nice of Sun to provide these retractable coffee-cup holders on
>>> all their servers".
>> they probably still trying hard to figure out how to play VCDs from
>> pasar malam, to watch them on the Sun 21" monitor.
>Uh ... Until the find out those Sun 21" monitor works perfectly with
>their Wintel desktops. ;-}
Sun's 21" monitors are usually rebadged Sony's innit?
>> well, such a luxury. :)
>Hmm ... since they're not doing much work on the servers anyway, the
>crap 15" monitor from their Wintel desktops would do on the Sun servers
>... right?
Who orders servers with monitors anyway. I usually order mine
headless, except that there was this special offer for those E450s.
Ooo. Wonder if the tm.net sysadmins know how to administer a
headless server.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20426.07 ž COFFEE.COM not found: A)dd more, R)eheat F)reak out.
Philip Chee
>phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee) writes:
>>>> 14 Dec 2001 10:34:56 +0800 (SGT)
>> And why is tm.net running it's servers on Singapore Standard Time.
>> Isn't that rather unpatriotic for our "national carrier" ?!?
>You know the answer for that Philip.
It was a rhethorical question. You knew that, sabri :-)
>The nice Sun SEs didn't bother adding MYT timezone into the Solaris
>config files.
Actually the files are all there, you just have to do a bit of
digging in the man pages.
>Uhh ... I still have some Solaris on Sparc and Intel to care for, at new
>place. Though only a 450, not as big as that 10000. ;-}
E450? Nice boxes, you can shove 20 SCSI disks into one of those.
And it's got 10 PCI slots. And somebody on comp.os.solaris wrote a
Solaris driver for a PCI sound blaster card. And all you need now
is to find a copy of SunDoom :-)
Phil
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20419.41 ž Blessed our young they will inherit our national debt.
Wahlau de NewsMan Away
news) wrote:
>> they probably still trying hard to figure out how to play VCDs from
>> pasar malam, to watch them on the Sun 21" monitor.
>
>Uh ... Until the find out those Sun 21" monitor works perfectly with
>their Wintel desktops. ;-}
they won't have the time.. Too busy. :)
>> well, such a luxury. :)
>
>Hmm ... since they're not doing much work on the servers anyway, the
>crap 15" monitor from their Wintel desktops would do on the Sun servers
>... right?
well, surprisingly they have difficulty finding the Wintel desktop..
too obsessed with the Sun multimedia set (apalar, become Multimedia
set pulak the sun server... :) )
Wahlau de NewsMan Away
wrote:
>>they probably still trying hard to figure out how to play VCDs from
>>pasar malam, to watch them on the Sun 21" monitor.
>
>All the new sun servers come with DVD drives so you may not be far wrong.
now now, i am pretty surprised now.
will write my resume to Telekom right away, dream job! :)
Wahlau de NewsMan Away
wrote:
>>Uh ... Until the find out those Sun 21" monitor works perfectly with
>>their Wintel desktops. ;-}
>
>Sun's 21" monitors are usually rebadged Sony's innit?
i think so, do you notice any of those famous black thin line in the
middle effect?
>>> well, such a luxury. :)
>>Hmm ... since they're not doing much work on the servers anyway, the
>>crap 15" monitor from their Wintel desktops would do on the Sun servers
>>... right?
>
>Who orders servers with monitors anyway. I usually order mine
>headless, except that there was this special offer for those E450s.
ahh... then what do you do with the e450?
>Ooo. Wonder if the tm.net sysadmins know how to administer a
>headless server.
well, they thought, and attempted for some while i pressume. And a
direct phone call to the finance department after 2 minutes 23 seconds
of attempt, to make procedure to order the monitor.
that takes them another 4 months to go through all the red tapes...
then they start cracking their heads. :)
Wahlau de NewsMan Away
wrote:
>> they probably still trying hard to figure out how to play VCDs from
>> pasar malam, to watch them on the Sun 21" monitor.
>
>ahem, i know people who chucked a vcd into a notebook, then hooked up a
>projector to the vga port and watched the movie on the 'big screen'. :)
another luxury.. sigh :(
have to really start writing my resume before Ahmad does!
Dinesh Nair
> place. Though only a 450, not as big as that 10000. ;-}
wasnt the old place using the E10K as a web server, no less ? :)
i remember how i guffawed when i found a dual CPU E450 serving six (yes,
six) static web pages for a demo. my irreverent fit of laughter didnt buy me
any brownie points there. :)
Dinesh Nair
> E450? Nice boxes, you can shove 20 SCSI disks into one of those.
we've got a dual cpu E450 with 3 A1000s hanging off it with half a terra of
storage. handy little things, with nice blinken lights to show off to the
suits. oops, i forget, i am a friggin' suit now. oh well.
soon to be replaced with either a couple of dual cpu qsol or asus 1U
rackmounts, with some funky 1TB of NAS storage thrown into the mix. that
should be fun.
Dinesh Nair
> All the new sun servers come with DVD drives so you may not be far wrong.
i figure they're soon going to dvd as removable media soon. pretty much
everyone is, with dvd's reaching 6GB of capacity.
Dinesh Nair
they soon will.
Philip Chee
>Philip Chee wrote:
>> But a good sysadmin knows how to use man.
>> I used man.
>ok, which brings back an old usenet favourite: how many know to rtfm ? :)
But surely rtfm is one of the basic skills required for a sysadmin,
or am I missing something?
>> Surely they must be running one or more of tripwire, ASET, or one of
>> Casper Dik's MD5 fingerprint utilities? I mean these are servers
>are they ?
Even if the tm.net sysadmins don't know how to set one of these up,
the consultants who set up their iPlanet servers for them would have
done so as part of their contract right? All the tm.net sysadmins
would have to do is to check their email every day for alerts?
Of course tripwire can be configured to automatically shut down the
server if a file is changed. Perhaps the tm.net sysadmins got fed
up with their servers shutting down every day and disabled tripwire
(or equivalent)?
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20368.85 ž Co-sysop wanted: Must have good oral skills
Philip Chee
>> place. Though only a 450, not as big as that 10000. ;-}
>wasnt the old place using the E10K as a web server, no less ? :)
If you want a Sun solution isn't multiple rack mounted Netras more
cost efficient than a Sunfire E10000, not to mention you don't have
to hire an expensive E10k qualified sysadmin, not to mention the
even more expensive service contract.
>i remember how i guffawed when i found a dual CPU E450 serving six (yes,
>six) static web pages for a demo. my irreverent fit of laughter didnt buy me
>any brownie points there. :)
Wow overkill for sure. Some people have money to burn.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20378.85 ž Talk is cheap. Using a modem gets expensive.
Philip Chee
>Philip Chee wrote:
>> E450? Nice boxes, you can shove 20 SCSI disks into one of those.
>we've got a dual cpu E450 with 3 A1000s hanging off it with half a terra of
>storage. handy little things, with nice blinken lights to show off to the
>suits. oops, i forget, i am a friggin' suit now. oh well.
Oooo. I want.
>soon to be replaced with either a couple of dual cpu qsol or asus 1U
>rackmounts, with some funky 1TB of NAS storage thrown into the mix. that
>should be fun.
Cut out the middleman and buy direct from Avantech for their 1U
rackmounts? Looking at some products, they all look suspiciously
like rebadged Avantech boxes. Vendor interop for fiber SANS still
seems a PITA based on the cries for help in the various techie
newsgroups.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ş 20383.85 ş It is always darkest just before you turn on the lights.
Ahmad Sayuthi
> will write my resume to Telekom right away, dream job! :)
psst! "MDC", buddy. *That's* the dream job... very low stress - just
smile, nod furiously and agree whenever your immediate superior says
something;)
All those fibre optics for superfast Net connection... bluff that you
need the latest cutting-edge equipment in the office for your `work'...
and a notebook and Palm since you might be on the move and need to keep
track of developments... All in the name of the supercorridor of
course.
Ahmad Sayuthi
> i remember how i guffawed when i found a dual CPU E450 serving six
> (yes, six) static web pages for a demo. my irreverent fit of
> laughter didnt buy me any brownie points there. :)
So, when is your `self-help and motivational' book "How to win enemies"
coming out?:)
Dinesh Nair
> Wow overkill for sure. Some people have money to burn.
some people wanted to show off their sun's to john gage. :)
Dinesh Nair
> >suits. oops, i forget, i am a friggin' suit now. oh well.
>
> Oooo. I want.
..to be a suit ? :)
> Cut out the middleman and buy direct from Avantech for their 1U
for qsol, you mean ?
> rackmounts? Looking at some products, they all look suspiciously
> like rebadged Avantech boxes. Vendor interop for fiber SANS still
perhaps, but they've already done the groundwork to get freebsd 4.4 running
on their boxes (qsol). asus's boxes i've personally tested with freebsd 4.4,
so no worries there. also, i like their customer service and their online
configurator, makes things a whole lot easier for forecast budgetary
purposes.
compare them with millinux sdn bhd, a pdx subsidiary which rebadges a
taiwanese manufacturer's 1U and 2U boxen. i met them 4 weeks back with a
request for information on some feature sets (lights out management, freebsd
support) as well as budgetary estimates, and they've yet to get back to me.
well, their lack of interest is going to cost them one lost opportunity and
a reference site for their product.
kinda like seeing how things are going to progress in the blade[1] server
space. developments here will interest me, as part of our application would
require CPU-chomping compression algorithms, and offloading these to the
blades sounds interesting. wonder if it'd allow me to decompress on the fly,
thus saving a bundle (a huge bundle, we get 30:1 compression ratios) on disk
arrays.
> seems a PITA based on the cries for help in the various techie
> newsgroups.
i dont think i'd be going the SANS path, more towards NAS.
[1] a sunblade is _not_ a blade server. the new hp's are. :)
Dinesh Nair
> So, when is your `self-help and motivational' book "How to win enemies"
> coming out?:)
it's a short book. all it says is to kick 'em in the balls when they're
down.
Dinesh Nair
> But surely rtfm is one of the basic skills required for a sysadmin,
> or am I missing something?
what's required and what's in practice are two wholly different animals.
> Even if the tm.net sysadmins don't know how to set one of these up,
> the consultants who set up their iPlanet servers for them would have
and you're assuming the consultants know they're stuff right ? :)
Wahlau de NewsMan Away
wrote:
>> Wow overkill for sure. Some people have money to burn.
>
>some people wanted to show off their sun's to john gage. :)
or they just wanna get SOny monitors and DVD drive? :)
Wahlau de NewsMan Away
wrote:
>>ok, which brings back an old usenet favourite: how many know to rtfm ? :)
>
>But surely rtfm is one of the basic skills required for a sysadmin,
>or am I missing something?
reading is reading, understanding it is another BIG issue. :)
>>are they ?
>
>Even if the tm.net sysadmins don't know how to set one of these up,
>the consultants who set up their iPlanet servers for them would have
muahahhaha... you think their mailbox is really still up and working?
Ahmad Sayuthi
> compare them with millinux sdn bhd, a pdx subsidiary which
> rebadges a taiwanese manufacturer's 1U and 2U boxen. i met them 4
> weeks back with a request for information on some feature sets
> (lights out management, freebsd support) as well as budgetary
> estimates, and they've yet to get back to me. well, their lack of
> interest is going to cost them one lost opportunity and a
> reference site for their product.
Ah, my former employers here;) Can't remember this unit though... must
be a new one; probably started with the sole intention of cashing in on
the linux craze.
Wonder who are the technical staff over there(?). AFAIK, pdx was a
Windows-heavy outfit and this "lack of interest" might actually be
"lack of knowledge":) It might appear that they're only interested in
pushing boxes of equipment.
Dinesh Nair
> Ah, my former employers here;) Can't remember this unit though... must
they've got this whole range of X boxes. swing by www.millinux.com.my.
> "lack of knowledge":) It might appear that they're only interested in
> pushing boxes of equipment.
the one tech chap i spoke to was no linux guru, but he knew what he was
talking about. as for pushing boxes, dont _all_ malaysian tech outfits do
that ? none of them are worth their salt when it comes to technology
development.
Philip Chee
>Philip Chee wrote:
>> Wow overkill for sure. Some people have money to burn.
>some people wanted to show off their sun's to john gage. :)
I'm sure Mr. Gage is, uh, impressed; but not in the way they wanted.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20489.68 ž I can keep a secret. It's the people I tell that can't
Philip Chee
>Philip Chee wrote:
>> >suits. oops, i forget, i am a friggin' suit now. oh well.
>> Oooo. I want.
>..to be a suit ? :)
The A1000's I mean!
>compare them with millinux sdn bhd, a pdx subsidiary which rebadges a
>taiwanese manufacturer's 1U and 2U boxen. i met them 4 weeks back with a
Avantech.
>request for information on some feature sets (lights out management, freebsd
>support) as well as budgetary estimates, and they've yet to get back to me.
>well, their lack of interest is going to cost them one lost opportunity and
>a reference site for their product.
Point noted. Talked to their techies. On the technical side they
seem to know what they are doing.
>[1] a sunblade is _not_ a blade server. the new hp's are. :)
IIRC Sun have some CompactPCI based blade servers based on their USIIi
chipset meant for the Telco (5 nines) industry.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20488.01 ž Ah, come on, just this one last little feature.
Philip Chee
>> Even if the tm.net sysadmins don't know how to set one of these up,
>> the consultants who set up their iPlanet servers for them would have
>and you're assuming the consultants know they're stuff right ? :)
Uh, isn't that what they are paid for? In that case even I can
become a highly paid consultant!
Dogbert
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
þ 20493.01 þ This building is so high, the elevator shows movies.
Dinesh Nair
> Uh, isn't that what they are paid for? In that case even I can
> become a highly paid consultant!
trust me, you'd do a whole lot better than some of these idiots. they dont
know their stuff and the only pedigree they have is a stint with either a
big 5 consulting outfit or a vendor. which, imho, doesnt make you an expert
on anything, let alone your own product.
wanna throw in philip chee sdn bhd integration services and resell my 1U
solution ?
Dinesh Nair
> The A1000's I mean!
expensive option, imho. perhaps ok for petabyte class (of course you wont be
using the a1000s then, but hitachi nevertheless). at the tera range, lots of
NAS based rackmounted storage around.
> Avantech.
ok, didnt know that one.
> Point noted. Talked to their techies. On the technical side they
> seem to know what they are doing.
the millinuxt tech i talked to knew what he was talking about, but then he
was deferential to me. :)
> IIRC Sun have some CompactPCI based blade servers based on their USIIi
> chipset meant for the Telco (5 nines) industry.
not exactly the cheapest solution around though. the 5 9s spec'ed boxen come
with a hefty premium. i could arhitect a 5 9s cluster with a bunch of 1U
boxes at a whole lot cheaper than buying 5 9s certified boxen.
Ahmad Sayuthi
> they've got this whole range of X boxes. swing by
> www.millinux.com.my.
Ah, it's indeed a new unit - pdx eworks, oct of last year. That's after
my time there.
I can't get to my old unit of pdxbizsystem.com - it appears the site
has been taken off. And going to www.pdx.com.my results in something
about them "updating the site" and being referred to millininux
instead.
PDX could be in the process of streamlining its business. The "e-
commerce ERP etc" thingy was what I was involved with. It must have
been absorbed by eworks(?) And pdx was awarded a piece of the e-
government msc pie last year iinm.
Anyway, I'm not responsible for the subtle and not-so-subtle
grammatical errors at that site, okay?;) Hmm, maybe I should contact
someone there, edit these and charge a few bucks...
Ahmad Sayuthi
> wanna throw in philip chee sdn bhd integration services and resell
> my 1U solution ?
Whoa! You guys will hafta take me along for the ride too - at the very
least, you'd need someone to carry those heavy boxes. Plus I'll renew
my Umno membership and publicly declare that Tengku Razaleigh and
Ibrahim Ali are the best thing since budu and nasi kerabu. That should
put *us* on par with those other connected vendors:)
Wahlau de NewsMan Away
wrote:
>> wanna throw in philip chee sdn bhd integration services and resell
>> my 1U solution ?
>
>Whoa! You guys will hafta take me along for the ride too - at the very
>least, you'd need someone to carry those heavy boxes. Plus I'll renew
>my Umno membership and publicly declare that Tengku Razaleigh and
>Ibrahim Ali are the best thing since budu and nasi kerabu. That should
>put *us* on par with those other connected vendors:)
then can i chunk in to open oversea market, specifically in a small
town in the middle of Europe? :) no initial cost for office and
stuffs... :)
Bledge
<wri...@tm.net.my> wrote:
>phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee) wrote Sun 16 Dec 2001 09:30:29p
>> "How nice of Sun to provide these retractable coffee-cup holders
>> on all their servers".
>"True true. Very handy that one. Wonder why some people put those shiny
>discs inside them instead and block the hole...? Weird lar, these
>people."
Ayoh! Those shiny discs are COASTERs for putting the
coffee cups on-lah! :^)
/bledge 20 Dec 2001
sabre 2/3 tiger news
> sabre 2/3 tiger news wrote:
>> place. Though only a 450, not as big as that 10000. ;-}
> wasnt the old place using the E10K as a web server, no less ? :)
Almost there. ;-}
Actually, old place was using IBM S80 (about the same size as E10K) as a
webserver. Hmm ... check out www.h-oli.com ... last I check it's still
on the S80.
The Sun E10K at old place is two firewall layers down the line ... web
servers >> app servers >> database servers. Yes, the E10K is just running
plain old Oracle 8 (at least one of the 3 domains set on it).
> i remember how i guffawed when i found a dual CPU E450 serving six (yes,
> six) static web pages for a demo. my irreverent fit of laughter didnt buy me
> any brownie points there. :)
Not my old gang eh? ;-}
I don't comment too much on those overkill setup. Demos are temporary setups anyway.
But for permanent setup ...
regards,
sabre23t =^.^= ... Listing Malaysia for Google ... 3100 sites
ICQ# 105861968 ... http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/Malaysia
... Usenet is like Tetris for people who still remember how to read
* TLX *
sabre 2/3 tiger news
>>> Isn't that rather unpatriotic for our "national carrier" ?!?
>> You know the answer for that Philip.
> It was a rhethorical question. You knew that, sabri :-)
;-} Of course.
>> Uhh ... I still have some Solaris on Sparc and Intel to care for, at new
>> place. Though only a 450, not as big as that 10000. ;-}
> E450? Nice boxes, you can shove 20 SCSI disks into one of those.
> And it's got 10 PCI slots. And somebody on comp.os.solaris wrote a
> Solaris driver for a PCI sound blaster card. And all you need now
> is to find a copy of SunDoom :-)
I don't think I would want to put SunDoom on a E450 machine that drives
almost the whole revenue stream of the company. ;-}
Hmm ... I do have another E450 in our test / development lab, mirror
setup of the productions machines. We'll see ...
However, I'm more interested in Doom on my 9210.
Philip, would u mind giving your ICQ UIN? Or getting one? ;-}
regards,
sabre23t =^.^= ... Listing Malaysia for Google ... 3100 sites
ICQ# 105861968 ... http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/Malaysia
<tlx> I abhor *wrong* answers! ... </tlx>
Dinesh Nair
> The Sun E10K at old place is two firewall layers down the line ... web
was talking of recent history, inter-op tests a month back.
> Not my old gang eh? ;-}
the one and the same. :)
Philip Chee
>Philip, would u mind giving your ICQ UIN? Or getting one? ;-}
What's ICQ?
What's UIN?
Well I could get one but it won't be of much use to you since I do
almost everything in offline or batch (UUCP) mode.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20437.73 ž Here, you go first, you're immune to bullets.
sabre 2/3 tiger news
> ne...@sabre23t.com writes:
>> Philip, would u mind giving your ICQ UIN? Or getting one? ;-}
> What's ICQ?
> What's UIN?
;-}
> Well I could get one but it won't be of much use to you since I do
> almost everything in offline or batch (UUCP) mode.
Hey, get out of the stone age offline UUCP. ;-}
I used to be always offline ... now all my UUCP are online over TCP/IP
... while I'm surfing, chatting, emailing.
Especially now that I managed to get for holes through my previous co
and currect co firewalss ... to poke port 540, 6667 etc.
regards,
sabre23t =^.^= ... Listing Malaysia for Google ... 3100 sites
ICQ# 105861968 ... http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/Malaysia
<tlx> I may not always be perfect, but I'm always me. </tlx>
Philip Chee
>phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee) writes:
>Hey, get out of the stone age offline UUCP. ;-}
Just call me Phil Phlintstone.
>Especially now that I managed to get for holes through my previous co
>and currect co firewalss ... to poke port 540, 6667 etc.
I don't use my personal account at work. I used to years ago, but
nowadays I'm too busy, so I only read newsgroups from home.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ş 20349.11 ş Error #1511: Brain Offline
Dinesh Nair
>
> In article <20011221.18141...@sabri.pc.my> ne...@sabre23t.com writes:
> >phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee) writes:
>
> >Hey, get out of the stone age offline UUCP. ;-}
>
> Just call me Phil Phlintstone.
no i too agree with philip. both mail and news are offline for me, and even
when i dialup from home, each dialup sessions lasts barely 5 minutes, just
enough to exchange mail and news with the servers. then it's disconnect,
take notebook to hall and read mail/news while telly is tuned to either tech
tv or discovery.
i guess it's force of habit, but i usually cringe if i'm dialled up while
reading email.
> I don't use my personal account at work. I used to years ago, but
> nowadays I'm too busy, so I only read newsgroups from home.
i'd love to be able to read newsgroups from the office, but jaring blocks
access to nntp.jaring.my from leased line ip addies, and none of the jaring
newsadmins seem to be able to support corporate usenet feeds using leafnode.
they somehow insist on me putting in INN, when i think this is a little too
much overkill for just 3 users.
this bites big time, more so when you consider how tech-savvy jaring people
used to be.
Dinesh Nair
> and currect co firewalss ... to poke port 540, 6667 etc.
want a list of previous co's vulnerabilities ? :)
Philip Chee
>> Just call me Phil Phlintstone.
>no i too agree with philip. both mail and news are offline for me, and even
>when i dialup from home, each dialup sessions lasts barely 5 minutes, just
>enough to exchange mail and news with the servers. then it's disconnect,
<AOLtimeWarner>
>take notebook to hall and read mail/news while telly is tuned to either tech
>tv or discovery.
I just love all those gadgets in TechTV. Now if only I could
actually afford all of them. Sigh.
>i guess it's force of habit, but i usually cringe if i'm dialled up while
>reading email.
Sabri and me were on the CWOL BBS before Jaring. I was dialing in
long distance from Ipoh, so the offline habit is extremely ingrained
in me.
>this bites big time, more so when you consider how tech-savvy jaring people
>used to be.
Yeah, it's like sucking flint through a straw with jaring staff
these days. Sigh.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ş 20461.61 ş Usenet changes its underwear every fifteen minutes.
Ahmad Sayuthi
> Sabri and me were on the CWOL BBS before Jaring. I was dialing in
> long distance from Ipoh, so the offline habit is extremely
> ingrained in me.
What's this one...? A newsgroup before usenet?
Dave Baker
>phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee) wrote Sat 22 Dec 2001 04:51:37p
>
>> Sabri and me were on the CWOL BBS before Jaring. I was dialing in
>> long distance from Ipoh, so the offline habit is extremely
>> ingrained in me.
>
>What's this one...? A newsgroup before usenet?
We were all around long before Internet was available to the general public -
I was racking up RM1000/month in long distance calls to CWOL chatting to
these guys & Compuserve in Singapore.
Dave
Ahmad Sayuthi
> We were all around long before Internet was available to the
> general public - I was racking up RM1000/month in long distance
> calls to CWOL chatting to these guys & Compuserve in Singapore.
Boy, I'd hate to be landed with that kinda phone bill:)
What's CWOL then? Something like SCM of pre-Internet days? Were there
many people at that time?
Dinesh Nair
> I just love all those gadgets in TechTV. Now if only I could
> actually afford all of them. Sigh.
some of them actually are affordable, and i found my brother's christmas
gift from one of their review sessions.
> Sabri and me were on the CWOL BBS before Jaring. I was dialing in
> long distance from Ipoh, so the offline habit is extremely ingrained
i had a slightly different motivation: the longer you stayed dialled up, the
easier it became to track your endpoint. so quick and dirty is what's
important.
Philip Chee
>Dave Baker <da...@baker.pc.my> wrote Sat 22 Dec 2001 09:23:10p
>> We were all around long before Internet was available to the
>> general public - I was racking up RM1000/month in long distance
>> calls to CWOL chatting to these guys & Compuserve in Singapore.
>Boy, I'd hate to be landed with that kinda phone bill:)
>What's CWOL then? Something like SCM of pre-Internet days? Were there
>many people at that time?
CWOL = ComputerWorld Online
BBS = electronic bulletin board system
At that time the CW magazine was running a multiuser BBS system in PJ.
There are usually multiple forums on a BBS rather like newsgroups.
In fact there used to be FIDOnet gateways that bidirectionally gated
USENET newsgroups into FIDONET forums.
Also at that time Dave was earning more in a month than I was in a
year so RM 1000 was pocket change to him. I hate to think what he's
earning these days since he can afford to work only 6 months a year
and enjoy life the rest of the year!
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
þ 20384.38 þ °°±±²²ÛÛ In Stereo Where Available ÛÛ²²±±°°
Dave Baker
>Also at that time Dave was earning more in a month than I was in a
>year so RM 1000 was pocket change to him.
Actually I was only on about RM7k/month in those days, so 1/7 of my wages on
phone calls was quite a big hole in the pocket.
> I hate to think what he's
>earning these days since he can afford to work only 6 months a year
>and enjoy life the rest of the year!
I had to take a big pay cut so I could stay home. Watching my daughter grow
up these last 3 years has been worth it though. One of these days I might go
back to the hard grind of real work - my two Malaysian friends who have
stayed in the business are getting US$400/day in the underwater telephone
cable installation business. Tempting, but I think I'll wait until my
daughter goes to school.
Dave
dol
"Philip Chee" <phi...@aleytys.pc.my> wrote in message
news:100906363...@aleytys.pc.my...
...
> earning these days since he can afford to work only 6 months a year
> and enjoy life the rest of the year!
believe me, it could get very boring.... ;-)
.d
sabre 2/3 tiger news
> ne...@sabre23t.com writes:
>> Hey, get out of the stone age offline UUCP. ;-}
> Just call me Phil Phlintstone.
Hmm ... call be Barney ...
the purple one ... ;-}
> I don't use my personal account at work. I used to years ago, but
> nowadays I'm too busy, so I only read newsgroups from home.
Hmm ... The company pay for the leased and/or dialup connection ... I
pay for the UUCP Jaring connection ... Info gathered used by both ... I
say that's even. ;-}
Furthermore, I then still have the dialup Jaring connection even when
both of the primary/secondary leased line connections they use (TM and
Time) are down (so far not both at same time though). I had to get
around the digital pabx keyphone they put on my desk though. ;-}
regards,
sabre23t =^.^= ... Listing Malaysia for Google ... 3100 sites
ICQ# 105861968 ... http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/Malaysia
<tlx> FTP? Free The Panthers...? For Thick Persons...? </tlx>
sabre 2/3 tiger news
> sabre 2/3 tiger news wrote:
>> Especially now that I managed to get for holes through my previous co
>> and currect co firewalss ... to poke port 540, 6667 etc.
> want a list of previous co's vulnerabilities ? :)
I wouldn't mind such a list ... for prev or curr co ... ;-}
Of course, I now don't have to answer for prev co, nor yet have to
answer for curr co. But I guess would come in handy, when they decide I
have to put my money where my mouth is (hmm ... did I mangle that
enough?) ...
regards,
sabre23t =^.^= ... Listing Malaysia for Google ... 3100 sites
ICQ# 105861968 ... http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/Malaysia
<tlx> I don't have all the answers, just those that count. </tlx>
sabre 2/3 tiger news
> phi...@aleytys.pc.my (Philip Chee) wrote Sat 22 Dec 2001 04:51:37p
>> Sabri and me were on the CWOL BBS before Jaring. I was dialing in
>> long distance from Ipoh, so the offline habit is extremely
>> ingrained in me.
> What's this one...? A newsgroup before usenet?
CWOL BBS ... Computer World OnLine Bulletin Board System ... with some
forums fed from FidoNet ... and some of those forums gateway'ed to
Usenet (if I remember correctly).
Other popular BBS around Klang Valley then include Infoline, CyberHQ,
etc ...
Usenet is primarily unix based in early years, I believe Usenet is a
play on Unix Users Network or such.
Fidonet is primarily based on small computers running Bulletin Board
System exchanging messages via dialup connections.
In short you can consider CWOL BBS as neandertals (sp?) forums as
compared to Usenet homo sapiens newsgroups ...
regards,
sabre23t =^.^= ... Listing Malaysia for Google ... 3100 sites
ICQ# 105861968 ... http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/Malaysia
<tlx> Do unto others JUST BEFORE they do unto you! </tlx>
Ahmad Sayuthi
> Actually I was only on about RM7k/month in those days, so 1/7 of
> my wages on phone calls was quite a big hole in the pocket.
Oh, `only' RM7K/month...
That's enough to support four wives and children around here;)
Dave Baker
>Oh, `only' RM7K/month...
>That's enough to support four wives and children around here;)
Between RM1k/month on telephone calls & a big motorbike that needed RM5k
worth of tyres per year & lots of other maintenance, as well as plenty of
holidays, I managed to save exactly 0 during my single days! Collected 7
passports full of stamps though. :-)
Dave
Ahmad Sayuthi
> CWOL BBS ... Computer World OnLine Bulletin Board System ... with
> some forums fed from FidoNet ... and some of those forums
> gateway'ed to Usenet (if I remember correctly).
I'm still trying to imagine this. I've *read* about these BBS back then
but nothing beats having actually experienced it. So it was some sort
of a primitive ISP that provides a gateway to discussion groups(?) I
remember something from old computer magazines about "Prodigy". Is this
similar to FidoNet?
I'm sure these were the days of pre-14K modems too. btw, there was one
DOS dialling program that was popular then - not Delrina... the `other
one'. Dang, can't quite remember its name.
Azuan Yazdani
>Other popular BBS around Klang Valley then include Infoline, CyberHQ,
>etc ...
Don't you mean Infonet, Sabri?
Hmmm, wonder how one could have slipped up on that especially since one
was also the co-sysop of that particular board. ;p
Azuan Yazdani
>> CWOL BBS ... Computer World OnLine Bulletin Board System ... with
>> some forums fed from FidoNet ... and some of those forums
>> gateway'ed to Usenet (if I remember correctly).
>I'm still trying to imagine this. I've *read* about these BBS back then
>but nothing beats having actually experienced it. So it was some sort
>of a primitive ISP that provides a gateway to discussion groups(?) I
Not just discussion groups (echomail as it was known for shared groups),
also netmail (sending messages directly from one board to another. Pretty
cool, but very expensive for the sysop), files (programs,games,utils -
think of it as sort of like an ftp site), on-line games, and on-line chats
(for multi-line boards, only a few were like this, CWOL, CyberHq amongst
them).
>remember something from old computer magazines about "Prodigy". Is this
>similar to FidoNet?
Not exactly, no. Prodigy was a service run by a single company (who was
it again?) whereas FidoNet was a coalition of multiple independent BBSes
scattered all over the world. The sysops of these BBSes ran the service
as a sort of hobby, and it could be quite expensive passing your echomail
around - a duty which was delegated to a person known as the network
coordinator (nc) for Fidonet. Individual boards would connect to their
local nc who would transfer/receive echomail with his local regional
coordinator (rc) who would then pass it on to his zone coordinator (zc)
who would then pass it on to other zcs.
In those days it was a nightmare for one's phone bills as the nc onwards
had to dial international numbers (i.e. malaysia's nc transferred to the
rc who was in Singapore (this was during the late 80s to the mid 90s), who
then passed it on to the zc in Taiwan.
>I'm sure these were the days of pre-14K modems too. btw, there was one
When I came onto the scene it was mainly 1200s and 2400s with some 300s
still around. I remember at that time most of the coordinators were operating
with USRobotics Courier HST modems. The HST protocols were half-duplex
protocols which allowed for data transmissions of 9600bps (and later on
14400bps) and this was extremely important to keep their phone bills down.
Then of course later on the v.32(9600) and v.32bis(14400) standards came
into force. Thereafter the HST protocol sort of disappeared although they
held on briefly at 19200 (competing with Zyxel's own 16800 and 19200 speeds).
There was also another brand of modems which had their own high speed
protocol, PEP IINM. Anyone can remember what that brand was? Telebit or
something like that? Sabri?
>DOS dialling program that was popular then - not Delrina... the `other
>one'. Dang, can't quite remember its name.
Telix? Procomm?
MTE? The world's first DOS telecommunications program which had software
error correction.;P
Dinesh Nair
> When I came onto the scene it was mainly 1200s and 2400s with some 300s
> still around. I remember at that time most of the coordinators were
ever played with a blazingly fast 300bps accoustic coupler ? :)
Dinesh Nair
> forums fed from FidoNet ... and some of those forums gateway'ed to
> Usenet (if I remember correctly).
and let's not forget OLM (online malaysia), whose two sysops had such
excellent user privacy credentials.
Ahmad Sayuthi
Thanks for the detailed info, Azuan. Send your invoice for services
rendered to the editor of pcbase:)
> another. Pretty cool, but very expensive for the sysop), files
> (programs,games,utils - think of it as sort of like an ftp site),
> on-line games, and on-line chats (for multi-line boards, only a
> few were like this, CWOL, CyberHq amongst them).
So how does the sysop pay for all these? Did users have to pay to
subscribe to and access these?
> When I came onto the scene it was mainly 1200s and 2400s with some
> 300s still around. I remember at that time most of the
> coordinators were operating with USRobotics Courier HST modems.
The NST branch offices had this USR 1.2/1.4 too. Real hardy and
robust stuff - lasted for years despite all those lightnings and
abuse before finally dying out in '96. Had to use the pulse tone with
it though.
> Telix? Procomm?
That's the one - Procomm. It's what the NST had used. I was fascinated
with the concept of typing out a story with xyWrite in Kota Baru on a
monochrome XT, connect via the 286 server with the modem screeching and
screaming and sending it over to the HQ in Jalan Riong. Plus being able
to access the database in KL and downloading stuff from there. Yeah,
Stone Age as compared to the BBS but it definitely was fascinating
enough:)
Azuan Yazdani
>Thanks for the detailed info, Azuan. Send your invoice for services
>rendered to the editor of pcbase:)
Who? :)
>> another. Pretty cool, but very expensive for the sysop), files
>> (programs,games,utils - think of it as sort of like an ftp site),
>> on-line games, and on-line chats (for multi-line boards, only a
>> few were like this, CWOL, CyberHq amongst them).
>So how does the sysop pay for all these? Did users have to pay to
>subscribe to and access these?
Some of them did go on a subscription based model. CyberHQ and OLM
(thanks for reminding me of them, Dinesh) amongst them. There was also
a board based in Penang, don't know the name, but I referred to it as the
"RM300 a year BBS", heh. Most of them offered you limited services if you
didn't subscribe.
Problem was that there weren't many users on the local scene. IIRC, around
1992 there were about 300+ users give or take, almost all of them located
exclusively in the Klang Valley (the only other notable person was one chap
who dialed in from Raub, Pahang. What was his name again Sabri? Dr something)
It was different in North America. There were boards which were able to
survive on a subscription based model. Amongst them were the largest boards
in the world, Exec-PC (I'm not sure if I got the name right, can't remember
clearly) was the leader with about 280 nodes (lines), followed by another
board with 200+ nodes. The next one was a board somewhere in the states with
about 60+ nodes. This one however was free unline the other two.
To answer your question clearly, most sysops paid for everything out of
their own pocket. It was a hobby and for the fun of it. Jeez, I only had
one PC at home when I set my board up and it slowly began to hog all of my
resources. I had to continuously delete all my personal files/programs to
make room for stuff for the board. And I had a princely 340MB of space back
then (this was in 93 IIRC)!
>> When I came onto the scene it was mainly 1200s and 2400s with some
>> 300s still around. I remember at that time most of the
>> coordinators were operating with USRobotics Courier HST modems.
>The NST branch offices had this USR 1.2/1.4 too. Real hardy and
>robust stuff - lasted for years despite all those lightnings and
>abuse before finally dying out in '96. Had to use the pulse tone with
>it though.
Heh, I tried a variety of different modems, almost successfully killing
all of them. Codex (extremely pathetic, brownouts would kill it), Team
Data (nice modem but not really durable either), Wearnes (lovely 1200bps
modem until Eugene (wired)'s modem died and he cannibalised mine for parts),
Multi-tech (probably the hardiest modem I've ever used. Survived multiple
lightning strikes), Nokia ECM9632 (rather weird modem, had a lot of funny
proprietary protocols), USR Sporster (my first 14.4Kbps modem! excellent).
I don't recall having to use any pulse tone modems though. Was it because
of the lines in NST?
>> Telix? Procomm?
>That's the one - Procomm. It's what the NST had used. I was fascinated
>with the concept of typing out a story with xyWrite in Kota Baru on a
>monochrome XT, connect via the 286 server with the modem screeching and
>screaming and sending it over to the HQ in Jalan Riong. Plus being able
>to access the database in KL and downloading stuff from there. Yeah,
>Stone Age as compared to the BBS but it definitely was fascinating
>enough:)
Hey, whatever looks cool. :) Back then it was a real groovy factor,
especially when showing off to friends. ;)
Azuan Yazdani
>> When I came onto the scene it was mainly 1200s and 2400s with some 300s
>> still around. I remember at that time most of the coordinators were
>ever played with a blazingly fast 300bps accoustic coupler ? :)
Once, for fun. :) Never had to use it actively, that was way before my
time. :P
Azuan Yazdani
>> CWOL BBS ... Computer World OnLine Bulletin Board System ... with some
>> forums fed from FidoNet ... and some of those forums gateway'ed to
>> Usenet (if I remember correctly).
>and let's not forget OLM (online malaysia), whose two sysops had such
>excellent user privacy credentials.
Hmmm, is that said with a note of sarcasm or without? Sorry, I can't
tell.:)
Ahmad Sayuthi
> To answer your question clearly, most sysops paid for everything
> out of their own pocket. It was a hobby and for the fun of it.
> Jeez, I only had one PC at home when I set my board up and it
> slowly began to hog all of my resources. I had to continuously
> delete all my personal files/programs to make room for stuff for
> the board. And I had a princely 340MB of space back then (this was
> in 93 IIRC)!
So these BBS'es were not equals then, with some having better equipment
and infrastructure and more resources to offer? In your case, how
many nodes did you have? I presume that PC was set up to act as the
server, right? I presume it was a 486(?)
> excellent). I don't recall having to use any pulse tone modems
> though. Was it because of the lines in NST?
Must be the lines at the branch. The phone used for that particular
line definitely stone age too - the one with rotary (?) dialling
numbers. Kota Baru might be the state capital but we were `kampung
class' when it comes to infrastructure:)
> Hey, whatever looks cool. :) Back then it was a real groovy
> factor, especially when showing off to friends. ;)
I had read a lot about the local BBS and early Internet scene from
In.Tech and Computimes back then but never had the opportunity to
experience it - something in local Internet history that I regret
having missed.
I did see it in action once when the owner of Kota Baru Computer
Center, the pioneer of computer equipment in Kelantan, downloaded a
small (by today's standards) document file from a BBS in Penang - and
continuosly cursing when it still wasn't completed after two hours!:)
Azuan Yazdani
>> To answer your question clearly, most sysops paid for everything
>> out of their own pocket. It was a hobby and for the fun of it.
>> Jeez, I only had one PC at home when I set my board up and it
>> slowly began to hog all of my resources. I had to continuously
>> delete all my personal files/programs to make room for stuff for
>> the board. And I had a princely 340MB of space back then (this was
>> in 93 IIRC)!
>So these BBS'es were not equals then, with some having better equipment
>and infrastructure and more resources to offer?
Yup. On the local scene, some boards had multiple nodes. A few had
massive amounts of storage space (some running CD jukeboxes loaded with
extremely expensive CDs containing BBS games/utils, telecommnications
software and useful shareware/freeware proggies) and there were others
running single nodes, little to offer and restricted hours (usually these
chaps had only one phone line at home so they'd run the board from say
10pm-7am).
The largest boards were I believe CyberHQ (16 nodes at one time), OLM
(8 nodes + 2 private nodes IIRC), CWOL (8 and then 4 IINM). Most other boards
operated 2 or single nodes. IIRC, Starlink when it first started had just
two nodes.
One good thing though was that most sysops tried to specialise. A few boards
were heavily into music (.MOD, .S3M, .MID) files. One or two were pure message
warzones (the number of messages in their local forums per day makes SCM look
puny ;P - albeit most of it was junk/crap). There were two boards specialising
for Macintosh related software/support. Then there were boards set up by
JKR (whose sysop now lurks in these newsgroups ;)) and also by one of the
Telekoms divisions. I tried to specialise in BBS support, providing
software/utils/games for BBSes itself.
>In your case, how many nodes did you have?
Just one. I was a poor student back then. :) Trying to scrounge up a little
bit of cash here and there to keep the board running.
I did have contributors though who sent me cash (these were very few). I
think I received something like RM300 throughout the entire time I ran the
board.
I can still remember becoming a freelance computer salesman working from
home. Wasn't very successful though (too busy). Strangely the only deal
that I can recall these days was when I "introduced" Dave Baker to a
computer shop (Micromega) where he purchased a 250MB hard disk drive for
RM950. I earned a princely sum of RM20 from that deal. Heh heh...
>I presume that PC was set up to act as the server, right? I presume it was
>a 486(?)
Yes that's right. I started with a 486 I think...wait, let me see...
ahhhh, I still have some of my board info files. Here's the excerpt of one:
Data Matrix System Info
-----------------------
Name : Data Matrix
Net(s) : FidoNET 6:609/79 WorldNET 60:8600/11 IntlNet 59:609/11
BBS Software : Remote Access 1.11+
BBS Mailer : FrontDoor 2.02/NC
CPU : 80486 DX/33
Monitor : SVGA 14"
Hard Disks : Quantum 240MB
Western Digital 120MB
Op. System : DR Dos 6.0
Multitasker : Desqview 2.61
Floppy Drives : 1.2 & 1.44
Modem : Nokia ECM 9632
Backup Modem : MultiModem 224E
Backup Modem (2) : DynaLink Pocket FAX/Modem 24/96 Group ]I[
Add. Peripherals : Sound Blaster Pro 2.0
2 Speakers
Microsoft Compatible 3-Button Mouse
Scanman Plus 32 Grey Scale Scanner
Printer : NEC Pinwriter P3200
Jeez...and I was so proud of my rig back then. :)
>> excellent). I don't recall having to use any pulse tone modems
>> though. Was it because of the lines in NST?
>Must be the lines at the branch. The phone used for that particular
>line definitely stone age too - the one with rotary (?) dialling
>numbers. Kota Baru might be the state capital but we were `kampung
>class' when it comes to infrastructure:)
Heh, but hey, that's one place where you won't develop a coronary from
stress. :)
Ugh, pulse tones...too slow to dial. I got impatient at a friend's place
whilst trying to set up his (very unfriendly) modem. Dial...handshaking
failure, jeez. Change settings. Dial again...no tone. Arghhhh...
>> Hey, whatever looks cool. :) Back then it was a real groovy
>> factor, especially when showing off to friends. ;)
>I had read a lot about the local BBS and early Internet scene from
>In.Tech and Computimes back then but never had the opportunity to
>experience it - something in local Internet history that I regret
>having missed.
Well it was an interesting experience. Some of us from back then have
established firm friendships till now because of those BBSing days.
>I did see it in action once when the owner of Kota Baru Computer
>Center, the pioneer of computer equipment in Kelantan, downloaded a
>small (by today's standards) document file from a BBS in Penang - and
>continuosly cursing when it still wasn't completed after two hours!:)
I can still remember trying to download the BBS software for the first
time to experiment with the idea of setting up my own board. Oh boy,
it was a nightmare. 700K file at 2400bps. Unfortunately my house had call
waiting and I kept forgetting to turn it off...I think I'd managed to
download up to 650K before getting cut off by incoming calls...IIRC,
this happened three times! It was real heartburn. Especially so when you're
on-line and someone in the house picks up an extension just as you're almost
through with that 500K file....Aiieeee! :P
Philip Chee
>It was different in North America. There were boards which were able to
>survive on a subscription based model. Amongst them were the largest boards
>in the world, Exec-PC (I'm not sure if I got the name right, can't remember
>clearly) was the leader with about 280 nodes (lines), followed by another
>board with 200+ nodes. The next one was a board somewhere in the states with
>about 60+ nodes. This one however was free unline the other two.
IIRC The largest BBS in the US with about 400+ nodes was a porn site
(no surprise there). Also they didn't need to pay any heating bills
in winter with all the 400 nodes powered on.
Philip
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60.5.291.1011 Fax:+60.5.291.9932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
--
ž 20492.16 ž He is almost a statesman. He lies well.
Dinesh Nair
> >and let's not forget OLM (online malaysia), whose two sysops had such
> >excellent user privacy credentials.
> Hmmm, is that said with a note of sarcasm or without? Sorry, I can't
> tell.:)
ok, i kinda forgot to prefix that with the <sarcasm>...</sarcasm> tags.
Dinesh Nair
> >ever played with a blazingly fast 300bps accoustic coupler ? :)
> Once, for fun. :) Never had to use it actively, that was way before my
fun stuff, when ensuring that the rubber cups gripped well was
all-important. slip a little, and the noise from the radio interferes with
your handshaking. also good for use on public phones, if you had a long
enough serial cable. however, road/highway noise interfered with this.
Dinesh Nair
> 1992 there were about 300+ users give or take, almost all of them located
that's kinda late, isnt it ? across the pond, by 1992, most bbs'es where
morphing into internet nodes. some board collectives had dedicated dialups
between them running tcp/ip. bbs peak there was the late 80s.
> It was different in North America. There were boards which were able to
> survive on a subscription based model. Amongst them were the largest boards
not all. some sysops had a lucrative side revenue stream of pirating apple
games as well as selling blue boxes and other phreaking paraphernalia. in
the 70s, steve jobs and wozniak ran a board hawking woz's blue boxes.
Dave Baker
>I can still remember becoming a freelance computer salesman working from
>home. Wasn't very successful though (too busy). Strangely the only deal
>that I can recall these days was when I "introduced" Dave Baker to a
>computer shop (Micromega) where he purchased a 250MB hard disk drive for
>RM950. I earned a princely sum of RM20 from that deal. Heh heh...
Wow, I didn't know that. I've spent over RM30k personally at Micromega over
the years - 2 desktops & 1 notebook & goodness knows what else, and 3
companies that I have worked for have probably bought over RM200k worth -
maybe more.
Haven't bought anything from them in the last year or so. I had a run-in with
one of their salesmen who was very unhelpful and Mark wasn't around to sort
it out, so we are buying from somewhere else now.
Dave
Ahmad Sayuthi
> and there were others running single nodes, little to offer and
> restricted hours (usually these chaps had only one phone line at
> home so they'd run the board from say 10pm-7am).
So that means the small ones like you could only serve one user at a
time, right? And that your phone line would be engaged whenever a user
dials in and hogs the line while using the BBS(?) Wasn't there the
danger of a malicious user cracking into your system and doing
something mean and nasty like formatting your HDD?
> The largest boards were I believe CyberHQ (16 nodes at one time),
> OLM (8 nodes + 2 private nodes IIRC), CWOL (8 and then 4 IINM).
> Most other boards operated 2 or single nodes. IIRC, Starlink when
> it first started had just two nodes.
What additional equipment were required to create these nodes? Is it
possible to create additional nodes without adding phone lines?
> One good thing though was that most sysops tried to specialise. A
> few boards were heavily into music (.MOD, .S3M, .MID) files.
That's the first time I've heard of MOD and S3M. Were they anywhere
near WAV in quality?
> or two were pure message warzones (the number of messages in their
> local forums per day makes SCM look puny ;P - albeit most of it
> was junk/crap).
What were they discussing about then? Don't tell me - the same junk as
in SCM nowadays, right?:)
> related software/support. Then there were boards set up by JKR
> (whose sysop now lurks in these newsgroups ;))
Oh, great! Next you'll be telling me that Mahathir, George Bush and
Bill Gates lurk around here too:)
> Just one. I was a poor student back then. :) Trying to scrounge up
> a little bit of cash here and there to keep the board running.
How long were you involved with this BBS thing both as a user and
sysop? Did you immediately join the next phase of the Internet
bandwagon when it was available? I'm sounding like a Special Branch
corporal from Gua Musang with these questions, aren't I? heheh!
> Strangely the only deal that I can recall these days was when I
> "introduced" Dave Baker to a computer shop (Micromega) where he
> purchased a 250MB hard disk drive for RM950.
Hope the HDD didn't conk out and die after the first week - I remember
disks in those days aren't quite as robust as the present generation.
Some folks would damage their disks when they move their system around,
forgetting that "park" command that prevent's it from being scratched.
> Jeez...and I was so proud of my rig back then. :)
Any why not? I was lusting for a 486 of *any* MHZ when using those XT's
at the office. We finally got them in '96 - DX4 100MHZ plus a Compaq
Proliant server running Netware. And the modem was upgraded to the warp
speed of 2.4K!
However, the equipment was procured by some dummy at the headoffice -
it came with *two* 1.2 FDD ala the 8088 XT and no 1.4 at a time when it
was becoming obsolete. Sheesh! The guy who approved that configuration
should have been shot!
Anyway, it came with Windows 3.1 and the guys and gals at the backwater
office, who had never even seen a mouse before, became Solitaire
junkies and experts in no time:)
> Heh, but hey, that's one place where you won't develop a coronary
> from stress. :)
... unless you have an ex wife like mine;)
Ahmad Sayuthi
> interferes with your handshaking. also good for use on public
> phones, if you had a long enough serial cable. however,
> road/highway noise interfered with this.
Now why would you want to use that at a public phone...?
I have the feeling I'm missing something here... something not-so-legal
perhaps?:)
Azuan Yazdani
>>It was different in North America. There were boards which were able to
>>survive on a subscription based model. Amongst them were the largest boards
>>in the world, Exec-PC (I'm not sure if I got the name right, can't remember
>>clearly) was the leader with about 280 nodes (lines), followed by another
>>board with 200+ nodes. The next one was a board somewhere in the states with
>>about 60+ nodes. This one however was free unline the other two.
>IIRC The largest BBS in the US with about 400+ nodes was a porn site
>(no surprise there). Also they didn't need to pay any heating bills
>in winter with all the 400 nodes powered on.
Hmmm, I wasn't aware of that. When did they operate? Most of my knowledge
is from around the early 90s subscribing to very expensive BBSing magazines.
(yeech!) I remember then the reviews were that Exec PC was at the top,
and the other board (200+ nodes) was...what was it, software something.
They were famous for carrying all the Apogee/ID Software stuff back then.
Azuan Yazdani
>> >and let's not forget OLM (online malaysia), whose two sysops had such
>> >excellent user privacy credentials.
>> Hmmm, is that said with a note of sarcasm or without? Sorry, I can't
>> tell.:)
>ok, i kinda forgot to prefix that with the <sarcasm>...</sarcasm> tags.
Ah...:)
Hmmm, didn't realise they violated (exposed?) their user database details.
Mind telling us more, Dinesh?
Azuan Yazdani
>> interferes with your handshaking. also good for use on public
>> phones, if you had a long enough serial cable. however,
>> road/highway noise interfered with this.
>Now why would you want to use that at a public phone...?
>I have the feeling I'm missing something here... something not-so-legal
>perhaps?:)
Back then, crocodile clips worked wonders...;P
Then Telekoms wised up and started to cover up all their exposed cabling
at public phones. ;P
Azuan Yazdani
>> and there were others running single nodes, little to offer and
>> restricted hours (usually these chaps had only one phone line at
>> home so they'd run the board from say 10pm-7am).
>So that means the small ones like you could only serve one user at a
>time, right?
Correct.
>And that your phone line would be engaged whenever a user
>dials in and hogs the line while using the BBS(?)
Yup. Which is why all the BBSes restricted the time usage for each user.
I think for most of the boards here it was typically 60 minutes a day
for the average user on the street.
>Wasn't there the danger of a malicious user cracking into your system
>and doing something mean and nasty like formatting your HDD?
Not really. I don't think there were that many malicious users out there
then. This isn't to say that the BBS softwares we used were state of the
art in terms of security. The one thing most sysops were able to enjoy though
were to read their BBS logs to see users trying to hack in and guess the
sysop's passwords. Jeez, looks like it was true, "God", "Secret" and
"Password" are amongst the most popular in the world. ;P
We didn't even have much of a virus problem back then either.
>> The largest boards were I believe CyberHQ (16 nodes at one time),
>> OLM (8 nodes + 2 private nodes IIRC), CWOL (8 and then 4 IINM).
>> Most other boards operated 2 or single nodes. IIRC, Starlink when
>> it first started had just two nodes.
>What additional equipment were required to create these nodes? Is it
>possible to create additional nodes without adding phone lines?
Ummm, to give you a practical (cost effective) answer, no, you couldn't
create more nodes without adding phone lines.
Additional equipment, well, additional modems of course, and in several
cases, additional PCs. I don't think any of us were using rack modems
(the cost would have been prohibitive for a hobby), so we'd hook up 4 modems
to each PC. Although I think the chap running CyberHQ ran all 16 nodes
on just two machines. Also the BBS software was also an issue. Most of the
better ones (shareware) were not too expensive for a single or dual-node copy.
But the cost went up for anything more than that.
Multi-tasking was also another essential thing back then as almost everyone
were running their boards of DOS based systems (besides the Mac BBSes and
one or two others). Windows 3.1 was a no-no for most people so I think most
of us stuck to DesqView. Excellent Dos multitasker.
There was one board which ran off OS/2 though, and the owner (also posts
in the ngs occassionaly, don't know if he lurks ;)) was very proud of that
fact.
>> One good thing though was that most sysops tried to specialise. A
>> few boards were heavily into music (.MOD, .S3M, .MID) files.
>That's the first time I've heard of MOD and S3M. Were they anywhere
>near WAV in quality?
Uh...
MOD is ummm, nowhere close to WAV. S3M (ScreamTracker) I'm not too certain.
I dabbled only briefly in the music side of things (this was before S3M
became popular) until a fellow sysop (who used to lurk/post in the ngs ;))
decided to delete that directory off my system (he hated all that music
crap, he said) whilst helping me do a tape backup. I never bothered
downloading all that stuff again.
>> or two were pure message warzones (the number of messages in their
>> local forums per day makes SCM look puny ;P - albeit most of it
>> was junk/crap).
>What were they discussing about then? Don't tell me - the same junk as
>in SCM nowadays, right?:)
Well, not really. I mean SCM touches more on political and current issues.
BBSers back then were a fairly tight group, and it'd be mainly jibing at
each other and talking about anything under the sun.
There were a couple of echomail groups which were similar to SCM/SCS though,
but more towards the Asian region (Although posters were mainly Singaporeans),
that looks almost exactly like SCM/SCS. ;P
It was a nightmare I think when the number of local messages kept increasing.
To give you a general idea, most users get an allotment of about 60 minutes
a day. All postings in the beginning had to be done on-line (no off-line
sucking and replying at your leisure). A bunch of us started to notice though
when users started getting 70-80 messages in their inboxes and were unable
to reply to it all. Then the wonders of offline message reading came about due
to a couple of enterprising sysops (Louis Su of Infonet was the first IINM).
Thank heavens for that.
But then again, most of us didn't care about being online for 60 minutes a day
since local calls were still 13 cents untimed back then. And I think I agree
with what Dinesh stated in another posting where he said nowadays he'd go
on-line, get/send his feed and disconnect or he'd cringe. Sigh...for the
days of untimed local calls.
>> related software/support. Then there were boards set up by JKR
>> (whose sysop now lurks in these newsgroups ;))
>Oh, great! Next you'll be telling me that Mahathir, George Bush and
>Bill Gates lurk around here too:)
I don't know about the latter two....;)
>> Just one. I was a poor student back then. :) Trying to scrounge up
>> a little bit of cash here and there to keep the board running.
>How long were you involved with this BBS thing both as a user and
>sysop?
I came on the scene in...1990 I think. That was just after Wizboard (can't
recall if that was the first BBS in Malaysia - but it was the first to hook
up to Fidonet) shut down. Started up my board in 93, then took it down after
a year to concentrate on other things.
>Did you immediately join the next phase of the Internet bandwagon when it
>was available?
Not immediately. I think I was one of several people who adopted a wait and
see attitude. Back then, we waited for Uncle Sabri's reports on how his
internet connection thingy was going. Then again, Uncle Sabri was one of the
earliest (non-sysop) users to get a 9600bps modem - a Hayes IIRC. (Yes we
were jealous ;P)
>I'm sounding like a Special Branch corporal from Gua Musang with these
>questions, aren't I? heheh!
Hahaha, I wouldn't know that. Never been interrogated by special branch
before. ;P
>> Strangely the only deal that I can recall these days was when I
>> "introduced" Dave Baker to a computer shop (Micromega) where he
>> purchased a 250MB hard disk drive for RM950.
>Hope the HDD didn't conk out and die after the first week - I remember
>disks in those days aren't quite as robust as the present generation.
Nope it didn't, I'm pretty sure about that. Actually I never had problems
with the earlier generation hard disks (MFMs/RLLs) compared to the earlier
batch of IDEs (I had a Seagate die on me three times within two weeks).
>Some folks would damage their disks when they move their system around,
>forgetting that "park" command that prevent's it from being scratched.
Hahaha...not just when moving it around, but before switching off your
PC.
>> Jeez...and I was so proud of my rig back then. :)
>Any why not? I was lusting for a 486 of *any* MHZ when using those XT's
>at the office. We finally got them in '96 - DX4 100MHZ plus a Compaq
>Proliant server running Netware. And the modem was upgraded to the warp
>speed of 2.4K!
Wahhhh! Now I've got half a dozen DX4-100 chips in my drawer.:P
I think I was one of the luckier users around. When I got my first 8086
in the late 80s it came with a 10GB HDD. Joyjoyjoy!
>However, the equipment was procured by some dummy at the headoffice -
>it came with *two* 1.2 FDD ala the 8088 XT and no 1.4 at a time when it
>was becoming obsolete. Sheesh! The guy who approved that configuration
>should have been shot!
Well it's pretty normal. IT literacy wasn't very high back then. ;)
>Anyway, it came with Windows 3.1 and the guys and gals at the backwater
>office, who had never even seen a mouse before, became Solitaire
>junkies and experts in no time:)
Hahahaha....hard at work eh?
>> Heh, but hey, that's one place where you won't develop a coronary
>> from stress. :)
>... unless you have an ex wife like mine;)
Ooh, is there an interesting story behind this statement? :)