Experiment in communicating with Chinese/Japanese writers?
no.to...@gmail.com
The aim is to allow people to communicate in their OWN language,
with others who use a totally different language and script.
I believe that computer assisted, human input is an efficient way,
compared to attempts to fully automate. It's like the person driving
the motor-vehicle. The driver does part of the job and the motor
vehicle does the other part of the job.
It's fun to be the driver in control.
We learn by being the driver who practices controlling the process.
At the one extreme is:
dumb mechanical translating word-for-word from a dictionary.
At the other extreme is:
a human translation with possibly an elaborate explanation by
a human who knows both languages fluently.
I propose that the human should transform/simplify the ideas,
and the computer should provide the 'dictionary of simple
sentences'.
By using some computer assistance [but not translation] to
decompose the language into simple primitive phrases,
which correspond exactly to identical meaning primitive
phrases in all languages, the writer can communicate with
the foreign reader, without any loss or change of meaning
of the message/idea.
Given a vocabulary, being a set of nouns and verbs, eg.:-
man, woman, boy, girl, bicycle, rice, fish;
see, eat, sell, buy;
a set of 'primitive sentences' can be composed from
this vocabulary. Eg. :
man see woman,
boy sell bicycle,
girl eat fish.
Since these 'primitive sentences' have identical meaning
in all languages, they can be the translated-elements
for all languages.
So then the humans' task becomes to transform the 'story'
into these 'primitive sentences', using only his own language,
possibly using some computer assistance.
It's analagous to *me* writing *this* and *you* reading *it*:
The human writer converts the ideas into strings of characters;
a task that is not well done by computers. And the reader does
the converse translation. And in the transmission of the characters,
which is done by machine, nothing is lost or distorted.
The success of our 'transfering my ideas to you', depends only on
my skill in translating my ideas into 'character strings', and your
skill in translating the 'character strings' into your ideas.
We don't need to concern ourselves about the complicated way
that the 'character strings' are translated during their transport.
For my proposal, the translated entities are universally
understood 'primitive sentences'; like "man sees boy".
A further important advantage, is that the users would get
practice in structuring their OWN language.
I like to blame my poorly stuctured english, on the 'cross
talk interferance' from too many foreign langauges.
So, for a 4-way conversation: Chinese, English, Greek, Arabic;
each participant would work in their own langauge and text,
by translating the ideas to and from 'primitive sentences' in
their own language.
The intention is to eliminate the 'arty wordsmith-ness'
which leads to languages morphing, like the movements of
fashion styles; and replace it by the transport of fixed
less ambigious primitive-sentenses.
Importantly, there is NO FOREIGN LANGUAGE TO LEARN.
Principally, you can write AND SPEAK any foreign
sentence, for which you have the:
1. primitive sentence translator,
2. primitive sentence set sound translation, expressed in
YOUR OWN language.
Here's "boy see dog" in Zulu and French in 'phoenetic'
English:
'fana bona inja'
'garson vwar shyan'
It's difficult to resist drifting into the 'actual spelling',
without proper knowledge of writing 'phoenetics'; but
you see what I mean.
So if you read the [proper] 'phoenetics' you'd be
reading/talking primitive sentences to the foreigner,
in HIS language, which would convey 'the story/message'.
So, to communicate in sound, needs 2 stages of human effort:
1. transform the story into primitive-sentences,
2. read the computer-generated phoenetic representation of
the foreign equivalent primitive-sentences.
Whether you wanted to or not, you'd be practicing/learning
to speak primitive-sentences in the foreign language.
============== Part 2
I want to experiment in reading/writing with eg. Chinese/Japanese
persons, via 'templates' which we will evolve.
And I'm asking for advice/collaboration from persons who have
better knowledge/experience than I do, with this topic.
I imagine that if the concept is well founded, it will
snow-ball/escalate -- like wiki.
The way global aviation communications works is relevant.
We would start with a suitable set of 'primitives' from which we
could build 'sentences'. Since the primitive-set would be applicable
to our chosen domain, which could perhaps be linguistics or
info-technology, and since I don't know 'linguistics', I'm choosing IT.
But initially we'll just use simple/common-life as the domain.
To start we'd select some very basic [archetypal] english sentences
like:-
man see woman
man buy meat
woman sell rice
A non-english speaker who learns these 3 'sentences', can
already read/write about:
man, woman, see, buy, sell, rice, meat.
I.e. they could write/read many phrases/sentences.
The format that I've used is simply: subject, verb, object;
which is just because that's what we're most familiar with
in english. But if some other format is more universal, or better
we can use that instead.
Perhaps Chinese/Japanese 'script' makes the task not doable,
but that would be my AIM. So then let's try Russian, where
many writers use latin script to get around the initial problem
of Cyrillic script and PCs and internet usage.
Communicating from eg. english to spanish would be too easy
and not challenging/interesting enough IMO.
Perhaps the past, and future tenses can be indicated by
appending "-" and "+" to the verb; thus:-
mary possess- lamb:little == Mary HAD a little lamb.
boy ride+ bicycle == the boy WILL ride the bicycle.
Apparently we'd just need a dictionary of the nouns,
adjectives, verbs and adverbs to be able to translate
the MEANING between the languages, of our
constrained-structure sentences.
Perhaps simple AI could be applied in composing the
sentences, where eg. the verb 'bounce' would be given
priority in the computer menu, when associated with
the noun 'ball'; whereas 'fly' would be given with 'bird'.
Just to start, I'll now try to 'translate' some arbitrarily
selected text:-
No ! I'll try to 'translate' my OWN text:-
}I want to experiment in reading/writing with eg. Chinese/Japanese
}persons, via 'templates' which we will evolve.
I want
-> I want NOUN = no
-> I want to-do = yes
-> I want to-do eat = no
-> I want to-do sleep = no
..
-> I want to-do try = yes
-> I want to-do try action = yes
-> I want to-do try action eat = no
...
-> I want to-do try action read = yes
==> I want try read ....
This is not easy !!
Perhaps the 'concept' that the original sentence contains,
must first be reduced to a restricted syntax form.
I [want try] [reading & writing] = subject, verb-clause, object.
try [is with] persons:Chinese&Japanese = subject, verb-clause, object.
try [concerns] languages:Chinese&Japanese
= subject, verb-clause, object:adjectives
try [use+] templates = subject, verb-future-tense, object.
templates [design+] us = subject, verb-future-tense, object.
The repetition is not so problematic, since it's mostly computer
generated.
Q. has Chinese/Japanese/Korean got a subject, verb, object
structure, where these parts can be expressed by distinct tokens
[words]?
How does 'computerised/emailed' Chinese/Japanese/Korean work?
Can unicode handle it?
TIA.
== Chris Glur.
rst7
funny as
a court jester of comedies. Go suck psychotic brainless shameless
crazy sleazy slimy filthy evil ugly abianchen/report2009/abum_chump
slut cunt
chattering monkey's dark brown skinned asshole and her filthy smelly
cunt.
More cut & paste from the monkey rstOwxyz whose rent money could only feed monkeys
be a white boy, you will always be a stinking yellow belly chink in US
Yellow belly stinking chink rent boy, no matter how hard you want to
be a white boy, you will always be a stinking yellow belly chink in
US
All you ever wanted in US is mininum wages. Chinkland can never give
that to you in Chinkland. You are low life chinky boy who was jilted
by a Taiwanese boy Abainchen. NO white girls wants a low life chinky
boy who only earns mininum wages in US
rst9
psychotic brainless shameless crazy sleazy slimy filthy evil ugly
abianchen/report2009/abum_chump slut cunt chattering monkey's