I have questions
ThirdEye
I've just finished the Evangelion series, Death & Rebirth, and The End of
Evangelion. First off, am I missing something here or is Death and Rebirth a
little bit of a waste of time? I mean the recap it provides of the episodes
are interesting, but the second part is complete on the End of Evangelion
DVD. Its as if you wouldn't miss it if you didn't have it. It does have some
interesting extras on it though.
Number B, what are SEELE's motive's and purposes. I realize they are trying
to bring about the Third Impact and merging all human life into a single
conciousness, but they seem to want the Angel's to do it, this is further
demonstrated by Kawrou being sent by SEELE to merge with Lilith. If they do
want the Angel's to do it then why back an organization like NERV who wants
to prevent the Angel's from reaching Lilith.
Letter 3, why only 14 year old children who have lost there mothers? I
realize that they have to be born a certain amount of time after the Second
Impact, but why is that? The conciousness of their respective mothers seems
to be imbedded in the Evangelion's. Does this cause them to feel a sense of
loss? Or does it allow them to feel more bonded to the Eva?
I have more but this will do for now.
Chris Hutchinson
"ThirdEye" <clo...@sccoast.net> wrote in message
news:av5kav$clkd$1...@news3.infoave.net...
> Letter 3, why only 14 year old children who have lost there mothers? I
> realize that they have to be born a certain amount of time after the
Second
> Impact, but why is that? The conciousness of their respective mothers
seems
> to be imbedded in the Evangelion's. Does this cause them to feel a sense
of
> loss? Or does it allow them to feel more bonded to the Eva?
Children born after second impact have no soul, their mothers supposedly
provide a soul for them in the eva's therefore people born before the second
impact have souls so they go crazy trying to pilot them for some reason?
That was the impression I got.
Michael Wignall
news:UfzR9.11276$KF3....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...<Snip>
>
> Children born after second impact have no soul, their mothers
> supposedly provide a soul for them in the eva's therefore
> people born before the second impact have souls so they go
> crazy trying to pilot them for some reason?
>
> That was the impression I got.
Ahh, they specifically refer to Shinji's soul in episode 20. The
Children do indeed have souls.
--
Michael Wignall
"Tomorrow's just an excuse away..."
Frank White
>
>
>I've just finished the Evangelion series, Death & Rebirth, and The End of
>Evangelion. First off, am I missing something here or is Death and Rebirth
a
>little bit of a waste of time? I mean the recap it provides of the
episodes
>are interesting, but the second part is complete on the End of Evangelion
>DVD. Its as if you wouldn't miss it if you didn't have it. It does have
some
>interesting extras on it though.
You COULD skip it and not miss much. But it is best to watch it,
anyway.
>Number B, what are SEELE's motive's and purposes. I realize they are trying
>to bring about the Third Impact and merging all human life into a single
>conciousness, but they seem to want the Angel's to do it, this is further
>demonstrated by Kawrou being sent by SEELE to merge with Lilith. If they do
>want the Angel's to do it then why back an organization like NERV who wants
>to prevent the Angel's from reaching Lilith.
No, NERV (and SEELE) isn't interested in keep Angels from
reaching LILLITH; it's ADAM they don't want Angels anywhere
near. If the Angels get Adam, that's it for the human race.
If Lillith is activated, however, the result will reshape
humanity into a higher form of life (they believe). The
key, therefore, is - once you've passed the cosmic aptitude
test outlined in the Scrolls and defeated all the Angels -
getting Lillith moving.
SEELE thought Kaworu could do it. And also that they could
control him so Third Impact would go the way they wanted it
to. That's why they tried to trick him into merging with
her by telling him it was Adam on the cross down there. But
they WEREN'T in control of Kaworu (any more than Gendo could
control Rei III), and their plot failed.
>Letter 3, why only 14 year old children who have lost there mothers?
Because Anno decided it had to be that way.
And losing their mothers doesn't apply to Rei.
Kaworu, either.
>I
>realize that they have to be born a certain amount of time after the Second
>Impact, but why is that? The conciousness of their respective mothers seems
>to be imbedded in the Evangelion's.
Not Rei.
>Does this cause them to feel a sense of
>loss? Or does it allow them to feel more bonded to the Eva?
I'm sure there are psychological/mystical/biological reasons
that could be put forth for this; but don't forget, the
'14 year old pilot coming of age by piloting a giant robot'
bit is a convention of anime.
Anno just gave it a slight spin...
>I have more but this will do for now.
Feel free to ask more. We LOVE showing off...
^_^
FW
ThirdEye
> No, NERV (and SEELE) isn't interested in keep Angels from
> reaching LILLITH; it's ADAM they don't want Angels anywhere
> near. If the Angels get Adam, that's it for the human race.
> If Lillith is activated, however, the result will reshape
> humanity into a higher form of life (they believe). The
> key, therefore, is - once you've passed the cosmic aptitude
> test outlined in the Scrolls and defeated all the Angels -
> getting Lillith moving.
>
> SEELE thought Kaworu could do it. And also that they could
> control him so Third Impact would go the way they wanted it
> to. That's why they tried to trick him into merging with
> her by telling him it was Adam on the cross down there. But
> they WEREN'T in control of Kaworu (any more than Gendo could
> control Rei III), and their plot failed.
>
But Adam was imbedded in the hand of Gendo Ikari wasn't it? Am I confusing
the Third Impact with the Instrumentality Project? They are the same thing
right? Why did the Angel's want Adam, he was the second Angel correct?
> >Letter 3, why only 14 year old children who have lost there mothers?
>
>Because Anno decided it had to be that way.
>
> And losing their mothers doesn't apply to Rei.
>
> Kaworu, either.
>
> >I
> >realize that they have to be born a certain amount of time after the
Second
> >Impact, but why is that? The conciousness of their respective mothers
seems
> >to be imbedded in the Evangelion's.
>
> Not Rei.
>
> >Does this cause them to feel a sense of
> >loss? Or does it allow them to feel more bonded to the Eva?
>
> I'm sure there are psychological/mystical/biological reasons
> that could be put forth for this; but don't forget, the
> '14 year old pilot coming of age by piloting a giant robot'
> bit is a convention of anime.
>
> Anno just gave it a slight spin...
>
I've seen the children piloting Mecha before (Gundam Wing), but I thought
there would be more to it than that.
Michael Wignall
> > I'm sure there are psychological/mystical/biological reasons
> > that could be put forth for this; but don't forget, the
> > '14 year old pilot coming of age by piloting a giant robot'
> > bit is a convention of anime.
> >
> > Anno just gave it a slight spin...
> >
>
> I've seen the children piloting Mecha before (Gundam Wing),
> but I thought there would be more to it than that.
Frm the Anno interview in the June 1996 issue of Newtype:
"the reason for which the principal character is fourteen
years old is that he is not any more child, but not yet adult."
"By considering "fourteen years" as the age where an
independence of mind appears, I found convenient to
include that with my work."
- Hideaki Anno
ThirdEye
>
> Frm the Anno interview in the June 1996 issue of Newtype:
>
> "the reason for which the principal character is fourteen
> years old is that he is not any more child, but not yet adult."
>
> "By considering "fourteen years" as the age where an
> independence of mind appears, I found convenient to
> include that with my work."
>
> - Hideaki Anno
>
Well that makes a little more sense.
Frank White
>
>
>> No, NERV (and SEELE) isn't interested in keep Angels from
>> reaching LILLITH; it's ADAM they don't want Angels anywhere
>> near. If the Angels get Adam, that's it for the human race.
>> If Lillith is activated, however, the result will reshape
>> humanity into a higher form of life (they believe). The
>> key, therefore, is - once you've passed the cosmic aptitude
>> test outlined in the Scrolls and defeated all the Angels -
>> getting Lillith moving.
>>
>> SEELE thought Kaworu could do it. And also that they could
>> control him so Third Impact would go the way they wanted it
>> to. That's why they tried to trick him into merging with
>> her by telling him it was Adam on the cross down there. But
>> they WEREN'T in control of Kaworu (any more than Gendo could
>> control Rei III), and their plot failed.
>>
>
>
>But Adam was imbedded in the hand of Gendo Ikari wasn't it?
Yep, that's where he ended up.
> Am I confusing
>the Third Impact with the Instrumentality Project? They are the same thing
>right?
Sort of. Third Impact is the transformation of humanity,
the Instrumentality Project is SEELE's attempt to control
the form it takes (and Gendo's attempt to hijack that
control from them).
(You know, the speculation is that we didn't HAVE to end
up as LCL goo. The one who controlled Instrumentality
decided what the perfect world would be. And for Shinji,
always unable to connect to others, a world with *no*
ATF fields, no barriers between people, would be perfect...)
> Why did the Angel's want Adam, he was the second Angel correct?
The Angels are the children of Adam just as humanity is the
child of Lillith. Each are the key for the survival/
transformation of their offspring. And the way things are
set up, the universe isn't big enough for us AND them...
FW
James M
ThirdEye
>
> (You know, the speculation is that we didn't HAVE to end
> up as LCL goo. The one who controlled Instrumentality
> decided what the perfect world would be. And for Shinji,
> always unable to connect to others, a world with *no*
> ATF fields, no barriers between people, would be perfect...)
>
Ok Adam is the first angel then, and Lilith is the second angel. Lilith is
humanities mother and Adam is the father of the Angel's. So what does happen
during the Third Impact, it seems to me that the Third Impact is unique for
everyone. Shinji seems to come to grips with all his fears and doubts, and
The End of Evangelion episodes seem to go along with this. I was under the
impression that everyone became one being. I understand now better the
relationship between SEELE and Gendo Ikari, but I am still not sure what
exactly each of them had in mind for Third Impact, but I don't remember that
being stated specifically.
Chris Hutchinson
"ThirdEye" <clo...@sccoast.net> wrote in message
news:av9ovt$ffq0$1...@news3.infoave.net...
ThirdEye
"Chris Hutchinson" <ban...@bantambunny.com> wrote in message
news:7H2S9.509$j9....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> No, The order of angels is only the order of when they appeared to
humanity
>
Yes, I understand that much. They all came from Adam?
Cyclograph
wrote:
>
>I've just finished the Evangelion series, Death & Rebirth, and The End of
>Evangelion. First off, am I missing something here or is Death and Rebirth a
>little bit of a waste of time? I mean the recap it provides of the episodes
>are interesting, but the second part is complete on the End of Evangelion
>DVD. Its as if you wouldn't miss it if you didn't have it. It does have some
>interesting extras on it though.
IMO, "Death" has some value as a recap and has additional footage that
might be of interest (some shots from the redone eps 21-24). I agree
"Rebirth" is a waste of time as it merely serves as a long trailer for
EoE (identical commentary as well) - skip it and watch as one
contiguous piece on EoE.
As for the DVDs, if this is regarding Manga R1, D&R is the only disc
with extras. EoE has none (well, except commentary track) so this
might be reason enough to have the other, even if you think the
program is not useful. (though there are some interviews (English dub
cast) on their EoE site for download, perhaps originally intended to
be on the disc) <http://www.endofeva.com/>
...just my 3JPY
-KD
Sebastian Kessler
> Ok Adam is the first angel then, and Lilith is the second angel. Lilith is
> humanities mother and Adam is the father of the Angel's. So what does
happen
> during the Third Impact, it seems to me that the Third Impact is unique
for
> everyone. Shinji seems to come to grips with all his fears and doubts, and
> The End of Evangelion episodes seem to go along with this. I was under the
> impression that everyone became one being. I understand now better the
> relationship between SEELE and Gendo Ikari, but I am still not sure what
> exactly each of them had in mind for Third Impact, but I don't remember
that
> being stated specifically.
I think Gendo planned to use Rei to make the Third Impact happen in the way
HE wanted it (only he should become LCL to be one with Yui again), while
SEELE wanted to merge all lifeforms into one. In the end, both became what
they wanted, but not through their will, but through the Third Impact
controlled by Shinji.
I think you´re right when you say the Third Impact was unique for every
single lifeform. Furthermore, the Episode 25/26 and EoE differ only in the
end [1]. In the series, Shinji decides to become one with the others, in EoE
he wants to live alone in a dead world.
That´s my oppinion anyway - could also be I´m wrong :)
Sebastian
PS:please excuse my bad english ;-)
[1] EoE only adds the way to the Third Impact in the beginning, which is not
explicitely said in the series.
--
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Frank White
>
>>
>> (You know, the speculation is that we didn't HAVE to end
>> up as LCL goo. The one who controlled Instrumentality
>> decided what the perfect world would be. And for Shinji,
>> always unable to connect to others, a world with *no*
>> ATF fields, no barriers between people, would be perfect...)
>>
>
>Ok Adam is the first angel then, and Lilith is the second angel. Lilith is
>humanities mother and Adam is the father of the Angel's.
Don't know their actual order, or even if they're actually
female and male in a way we'd understand. Heck, they
might even be halfs of the same being split in two in
First Impact.
>So what does happen
>during the Third Impact, it seems to me that the Third Impact is unique for
>everyone. Shinji seems to come to grips with all his fears and doubts, and
>The End of Evangelion episodes seem to go along with this. I was under the
>impression that everyone became one being.
Yep. Rei the Angel of Death comes for everyone, the AT
fields go down, and we all turn into LCL fluid and flow
together into one great big puddle.
Whee.
> I understand now better the
>relationship between SEELE and Gendo Ikari, but I am still not sure what
>exactly each of them had in mind for Third Impact, but I don't remember
that
>being stated specifically.
Gendo was focused on getting Yui back. What the merry men of
SEELE wanted - beyond being the ones to call the shots -
is unknown.
FW
Daniel Fawcett
news:avdgpj$12ea$4...@news.fsr.net...
[snip]
>
> Yep. Rei the Angel of Death comes for everyone, the AT
> fields go down, and we all turn into LCL fluid and flow
> together into one great big puddle.
>
> Whee.
You say that, but if you look at EoE when she goes around the command
centre, everyone gets exactly what they want as they go. Thats gotta be
worth something...
--
"At this point I have a request for our fans. If any of you in any way hate
homosexuals, people of different color, or woman, please do this one
favor for us - leave us the fuck alone! Don't come to our shows and don't
buy our records." :: Kurt Cobain
np: sonic youth ~ daydream nation
Stuart Nealon
>
> > No, NERV (and SEELE) isn't interested in keep Angels from
> > reaching LILLITH; it's ADAM they don't want Angels anywhere
> > near. If the Angels get Adam, that's it for the human race.
> > If Lillith is activated, however, the result will reshape
> > humanity into a higher form of life (they believe). The
> > key, therefore, is - once you've passed the cosmic aptitude
> > test outlined in the Scrolls and defeated all the Angels -
> > getting Lillith moving.
> >
> > SEELE thought Kaworu could do it. And also that they could
> > control him so Third Impact would go the way they wanted it
> > to. That's why they tried to trick him into merging with
> > her by telling him it was Adam on the cross down there. But
> > they WEREN'T in control of Kaworu (any more than Gendo could
> > control Rei III), and their plot failed.
> >
And why does she spend so much time in that tube in Central Dogma? (Sorry if
i got Central and Terminal Dogma mixed up)
James M
Rei?
I agree that most of the ones they show apear to get what they need, but
what of him?
ThirdEye
> How come Gendo couldn't control Rei III?
I was wondering that as well. I will have to watch the series again, I'm not
sure there are answers to all these questions though.
Frank White
odinofv...@hotmail.com says...
>
>"ThirdEye" <clo...@sccoast.net> wrote in message
>news:av73u7$dnsk$1...@news3.infoave.net...
>>
>> > No, NERV (and SEELE) isn't interested in keep Angels from
>> > reaching LILLITH; it's ADAM they don't want Angels anywhere
>> > near. If the Angels get Adam, that's it for the human race.
>> > If Lillith is activated, however, the result will reshape
>> > humanity into a higher form of life (they believe). The
>> > key, therefore, is - once you've passed the cosmic aptitude
>> > test outlined in the Scrolls and defeated all the Angels -
>> > getting Lillith moving.
>> >
>> > SEELE thought Kaworu could do it. And also that they could
>> > control him so Third Impact would go the way they wanted it
>> > to. That's why they tried to trick him into merging with
>> > her by telling him it was Adam on the cross down there. But
>> > they WEREN'T in control of Kaworu (any more than Gendo could
>> > control Rei III), and their plot failed.
>> >
>How come Gendo couldn't control Rei III?
Rei III had a different focus and life than Rei II.
Gendo hadn't pulled Rei III out of the flames, he
wasn't the only one who showed any interest in her
as a person, he wasn't the be-all and end-all of
her life as he had been with Rei II. Rei III knew
that Gendo had sacrificed her previous incarnation
without hesitation, and from her reborn, fresh
prespective she could see how manipulative he was.
She also had somewhat different feelings towards
Shinji - more protective, more attuned to his
welfare. All these things altered her behavior
with regard Gendo.
In the end, though, Gendo lost his control when
Rei realized she WAS not a doll. She could make
her own decisions, and didn't have to do only
what he wanted her to.
FW
Kakarotto
to go, they would refuse being turned into lcl, i believe he is one of these
examples.
Daniel Fawcett
news:3e1b...@snipnews.snip.net...
> So what of the one screaming and cowering under the console from the
multi
> Rei?
> I agree that most of the ones they show apear to get what they need,
but
> what of him?
They realised that they'd never developed his character at all ;-)
besides, i think anyone would go pretty loopy with what they saw...
--
"you are happy on sunny days. you are gloomy on rainy days. this is true
because you are told it is so. but you can be happy on rainy days"
~ neon genesis evangelion
np: vex red ~ start with a strong and persistant desire
Daniel Fawcett
[snip]
> In the end, though, Gendo lost his control when
> Rei realized she WAS not a doll. She could make
> her own decisions, and didn't have to do only
> what he wanted her to.
Shown, awesomely, by the single shot of the crushed glasses....