Kontakt Kontrol s88 keyboard into a Lippens

[jigg...@hotmail.com]

Hello all,

 

I'm new to the group and I was thinking about modifying a Kontakt Kontrol s88 keyboard into a Lippens keyboard by 3d printing some keys.

Mr Lippens kindly offered to send me some keys for 3d scanning etc but upon examining the keybed mechanism of the Kontrol I'm a bit less confident that this can be done well.

 

The keybed is a fatar TP/100LR

http://www.fatar.com/pages/TP100LR.html#

 

Fully weighted

but with this connection between key and hammer:

From flickr user James Fry:

“In this photo I have removed one of the keys (much easier than on any other Fatar keyboard I've seen - the key simply slides forward a few millimetres and then upwards away from the frame) to show the hammer actuation mechanism.

Unlike the more expensive keyboards, there is no escapement mechanism so the key is permanently attached to the hammer. It is also hinged quite close to the back of the key which increases the force required to play the back of the keys. This can all help increase the effort required to play, increasing fatigue and might be why some people dislike the action - though personally I prefer it to most out there, and it is extremely lightweight!”

 

 

 

Mr Lippens provided these useful measurements for his keyboard:

“The distance between keys is such that an octave span is about 5.9 inches [14.986cm], compared to 6.5 inches on a standard piano keyboard. The depth of the key bed, from front to back, is 5.875 inches, about .375 inch larger than the standard piano keyboard.”

 

F.Y.I. The Chromatone octave width is approximately 14 cm.

 

I thought I'd call upon the Janko braintrust for advice. I think Ivaylo Naydenov tried 3d printing some keys and I know Omar Soriano has tried the Lippens for himself, and a few of you Janko geniuses probably have a good understanding of how a longer Lippens key would affect the hammer action.

Obviously with this kind of modification I would lose the decreased octavespan and the keys would have different actuation forces.

 

An alternative is fitting Lippens keys onto a Chromatone, but then I lose all the bells and whistles of the Kontrol. Or I could try an overlay. But if you’re going to 3d print something it might as well be actual keys.

 

And as a side question, to people who have tried both Jankos and Chromatones: do you find the dipped angle of the keys on the Chromatone to be ergonomic at all? Does it change the actuation force of keys?

 

Does anyone know the keybed mechanism of the Chromatone? Is it hammers, or springs or parallelogram arms?

 

Thanks in advance,

James Weston

[Jigg...@hotmail.com]

Okay, 

I just blu-tacked some legos to my 6:6 keyboard. It seems like equal actuation force for every key might be crucial.

Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

[Joseph Austin]

James,

I own the "white" Chromatone (same one as Omar) and tried to learn to play it.

First of all, the keytops have a "typewriter" contour and border ridges, designed to keep fingers from sliding off, which is the exact opposite of what I would like for playing.  The ridges become irritating after a while.

Also, they playing surface is quite small (e.g. typewriter-size vs. piano-size).  This becomes a problem playing the extreme ends vs the middle, as the arm angle is different but there's not much leeway for hand position. Thus a finger position comfortable for a given chord in the center keyboard is different from the most comfortable position at the left of right end. Of course, Janko allows multiple fingerings for the same chord, but exploiting multiple fingerings just increases the learning difficulty.

More seriously: Unfortunately, my particular instrument did not hold up well--after a few weeks, the touch-sensitivity of some keys failed, and eventually I was getting no sound at all from some keys.

[Note that the "red" Chromatone has a different keybed design which I suspect is more durable.]

I think the design of the Chromatone key hinge is fundamentally flawed.  They use a flexible strap as the hinge/spring [see attached photos], and several keys are connected to the same hinge molding.  The hinges are layered at least two deep. This design makes it difficult to work on a single key--you basically need to disassemble an octave at a time.
 I suspect over time the hinge becomes deformed, changing the alignment of the key to dual switches.  I'm conjecturing that the delay between engaging successive switches provide the touch-sensitivity.  Besides that, there were some other issues, including broken plastic support posts for the keybed base, perhaps leading to a warped keybed, which could also cause mis-alignment.

BTW, if anybody thinks they could fix it, contact me off-line--I may be able to make you an attractive deal!.

Bottom line: I would not recommend the "white" Chromatone, either as an instrument or as a base for experimentation.

I've also been "burned" by a couple other inexpensive keyboards.  Mass manufacturers tend to employ "large scale integration", i.e. mounting the switches for a whole bank of keys to a single circuit board, or creating a single plastic part as guide and support structure for a whole bank of keys, etc. When these integrated components are pre-configured to 7-5, of even in 6-6, but configured to a specific alignment or spacing, it is difficult to adapt them to any other configuration.

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 10:52:25 PM UTC-4, jigg...@hotmail.com wrote:

Hello all,

[Jigg...@hotmail.com]

Thanks for this, Joe

You’re a godsend.

 

I wanted to see the inner workings of the Chromatone. Sorry it was so shoddy. I think in general one ends up regretting the cheaper purchases with audio gear. It looks like I’m just going to have to wait 3-5 years and save up for the mass production of the Lippens... Time to do some vocal training and work on a multimedia music textbook.

 

I’m hoping the vertical/horizontal space trade-off on the Lippens makes it easier to play complex chords than on the Janko. But then there’s the up&over and slotting-in movement of the fingers to get in between their interwoven keys – certainly better than piano but is it better than the standard Janko? There’s always trade-off trade-offs trade-offs. I’d really like to see Paul Vandervoort take a whirl on the Lippens. I don't like their concave keys but that's a pretty fixable problem.

 

 

I’ve concluded that the 7:5 traditional colouring may be enticing to traditional piano players but it’s pretty much worthless on a 6:6 keyboard and on a Janko it’s insanity. You can’t have a colour switch rows/semitones because it’s totally disorientating.

 

I attached some mockups following that rule.

 

Obviously they should all be overlaid with the Pertichik tricolour system ;)

 

 

I think the 2-2-2-6 one is the easiest to read. 

But I’m going to run with the polychromatic monstrosity that is the 5 colour Pertchik (1-1-2-2-2). Every note in the octave has a colour-combination which is unique to it and if you feel like colourcoding your notation it’s highly readable on a Twinline staff.