RaspberryPI HiFiBerry amp

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David Lake

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Jan 18, 2021, 9:13:43 AM1/18/21
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Hi All

Looking for some guidance here please.

I've built a RaspberryPI4 with a HiFiBerry DAC+ ADC (not the pro) wtih a pair of Grado headphone and an XM8500 mic.   I've worked out how to increase the gain for the mic, but the output on the headphones is far too low and I've had to buy an external amp.

I'm thinking about how to build several of these for my choir, but the price is pretty high at the moment so I'm trying to work out how to build a small headphone amp into the box.

Has anyone done this at all?   I'm thinking  of something like this https://thepihut.com/products/adafruit-stereo-2-1w-class-d-audio-amplifier-tpa2012

On the pricing, this is where it comes out:
- Raspberry PI4 2GB with power supply and SD card - £58.00
- HiFiBerry and metal case - £73.80
- XM5800 mic £14.95.  Cable £8.62
- Small external amp £30.28

Total without headphones, £185.65 which is about US$252.

If anyone can give advice on reducing these costs, that would be REALLY helpful!

Thanks

David

Wm Leler

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Jan 18, 2021, 9:36:32 AM1/18/21
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You also might consider buying a small headphone amplifier.  For example:

The advantage of this is that it can drive more than one headphone, in cases where there is more than one person using the device.

See also this article:

david...@oca.ac.uk

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Jan 18, 2021, 9:55:06 AM1/18/21
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Thanks – very helpful document.

 

I wanted to get to a point where I had a single-box installation – I’m thinking about this going to people who aren’t going to be that great technically (I’m thinking the typical choir member).

 

The external amp is effectively what I’ve got but – the HA400 is about £21 and then there is the problem of cables… 

 

I see that the HiFiBerry provides 5V so I was thinking that a small £3 or £4 amp with an additional 3.5mm jack in the case may do what I need.

 

Thoughts? 

 

David

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Wm Leler

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Jan 18, 2021, 10:03:33 AM1/18/21
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If you are really looking to save money, I have another article I'm working on. The latency will be a little worse, but the cost is much better.

Does monoprice.com ship stuff overseas? If so, they are a great source for cables. Good cables, lifetime guarantee, excellent prices.

david...@oca.ac.uk

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Jan 18, 2021, 10:42:49 AM1/18/21
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They do but the problem is the speed and the additional cost.

 

Unless you ship from within the EU (and that includes the UK) then customs of 17% is added.  But the real killer is the “service charge” which the carriers add, typically a flat-rate of £20-25.

 

Also you can wait weeks for things to arrive rather than next day – the HiFiBerry card took 8 days because it came from Switzerland (non-EU) so had to go through customs and pay a clearance charge.

 

I like the idea of the Sabrent USB module – I’ve just seen that at £8.99 on Amazon here  so I’ve ordered two!

 

I’ve also seen this mic https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0719CHFLS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1L77B1LBLFD3L&psc=1  which at £17.99 including the stand maybe exactly what I need.

 

Great document! Thanks for sharing...

Eric Brown

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Jan 18, 2021, 11:41:57 AM1/18/21
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I would double check that you’re really getting the full output of the DAC+ ADC module. Have others had an issue with headphone volume?  The specs show it produces a pretty high output voltage, though that isn’t necessarily the whole story. Definitely double check that you have the input gain turned up to a reasonably high level. 

Is there any built in means to play back or generate a test signal that could be used here to confirm if the issue is the output/headphones or related to the audio single itself?

Also, which Grado headphones are you using?  It might be worth trying with a different pair of headphones (even earbuds) to see if that makes a difference. 

- Eric

On Jan 18, 2021, at 6:13 AM, David Lake <david...@oca.ac.uk> wrote:


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Wm Leler

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Jan 18, 2021, 12:13:10 PM1/18/21
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Condenser microphones are hard to use with the HiFiBerry because they need phantom power. They will work with the Sabrent.

Sharon Hennessy

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Jan 18, 2021, 12:31:12 PM1/18/21
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I've set up several Rpi's for online music play using Jacktrip Virtual Studio (Devices) and Jambox - Jamulus images https://github.com/kdoren/jambox-pi-gen

I like the HiFi Berry DAC+ADC Pro.  I've also used Behringer UM2 audio devices (no need for a headphone amp), and other external audio interfaces.  

Costs can be reduced by using a less expensive sound card.   Sabrent usb sound cards worked pretty well with both Rpi images.  These sound cards will take condenser mics which are louder.   Selections do need to be tested on the particular set up before mass distribution.  Sometimes a file setting or audio level needs to be changed.

I was about to mention Leler's article, and I see it is referenced below.

Screen Shot 2021-01-18 at 9.24.09 AM.png

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david...@oca.ac.uk

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Jan 18, 2021, 12:48:50 PM1/18/21
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Thanks all!   I’m using Grado SR60s and the sound is there but just too low for piano or singing…

 

Sabrent arrives tomorrow so I’m going to try that out!

 

David

image002.png

david...@oca.ac.uk

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Jan 18, 2021, 1:38:25 PM1/18/21
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I’ve just looked at the Behringer UM2 and thought came to mind…

 

If I had a PIZero, could I mount it inside the UM2?  There are a couple of USB-to-Ethernet adapters for the PIZero.

 

Any gotchas I need to consider?

 

David

 

From: jacktri...@googlegroups.com <jacktri...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Sharon Hennessy
Sent: 18 January 2021 17:31
To: jacktri...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jacktrip-users] RaspberryPI HiFiBerry amp

 

I've set up several Rpi's for online music play using Jacktrip Virtual Studio (Devices) and Jambox - Jamulus images https://github.com/kdoren/jambox-pi-gen

image001.png

Eugene Chang

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Jan 18, 2021, 5:22:12 PM1/18/21
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Eugene Chang



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You could save a little money with some of these options.

1- a USB microphone. It also eliminates a separate cable.

2- a usb headset - some of these have a volume control. Maybe it would eliminate your need for an audio amp.

3- a gamer headset with mic. Some people like these. You do have to be careful that the mic is not too close for a loud singer.

If the audio fidelity meets your needs, using the USB option would simplify the number of parts as well as cut some cost.

Gene
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david...@oca.ac.uk

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Jan 18, 2021, 5:53:48 PM1/18/21
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Great ideas!  Thanks!

 

David

 

From: jacktri...@googlegroups.com <jacktri...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Eugene Chang
Sent: 18 January 2021 22:22
To: jacktri...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jacktrip-users] RaspberryPI HiFiBerry amp

 

 


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Bonnie Kwong

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Jan 18, 2021, 8:44:02 PM1/18/21
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Have you checked out this document: DIYVS - A low cost Virtual Studio Device (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jtnWEsLEt3lfJjqtlQriXOR7B5rb0PyMrvU51t1I2AI/edit)? 
It's from an earlier thread in this e-mail group (the very first message):

Bonnie
 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/006001d6edec%24c6b454a0%24541cfde0%24%40oca.ac.uk.

Wm Leler

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Jan 19, 2021, 7:55:45 AM1/19/21
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I'm the author of the DIYVS article. I'm working with the JackTrip Foundation people to make this easier to do. They are supposed to start selling a MicroSD card soon (via Amazon) that will have the JackTrip Virtual Studio device image already loaded on it. Also, I'm working with them to change the jacktrip-init.sh file so it will recognize far more USB connected audio adapters and interfaces. Until then, the document has instructions on how to build  it yourself, and it isn't too difficult if you have some familiarity with Linux.

I was holding off on publishing that article until the above changes were made. Meanwhile, I've build the device as described and tested it with a half dozen audio adapters and interfaces, and it works well, although of course any time you come up with a much cheaper solution you do give up a little. In this case, you aren't going to equal the amazingly low latency of the HiFiBerry audio interface, partly because it uses the Raspberry Pi header to communicate instead of going through a USB connection.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/CAEiUSmsFSER%2BmycJqKhsZWY6uKmgi%2BgFNmrWNRxvo05Q58aiVg%40mail.gmail.com.

Robert Holland

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Jan 21, 2021, 10:27:16 AM1/21/21
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Hi David,

I know we're looking at similar audiences here (at least for our amateur choral groups) so I've been looking at keeping down the additional costs too.

I realised that many people of a certain age who are ducking out of all this on the 'too hard' computer skills argument may have old camcorders gathering dust. The two I have (Sony Handycam Video8 and a more recent Canon) both have decent microphones in them which can be connected to my HiFiBerry card via phono plugs. The Canon microphones (stereo electret) work very well and the camera can be used with Zoom (iMac via a thunderbolt adapter) and so avoids the need to buy a webcam. I think my current DSLR can be used in a similar way, but many people may not realise the capabilities of what they already have. The Sony camcorder should work OK for audio but I've not tried it yet.

Our choirmaster last night was using his Windows desktop and a good quality USB mic (cost around £140) which worked very well (Linode server). I can't see most of the older choir members wanting to spend that sort of money on something which might only be useful to them in an on-line session. Nevertheless, I've no doubt that many will own mostly redundant audio/visual gear of one form or another which might be usefully pressed into service with a VS to help reduce their costs. A bit of imagination (and some support) may be needed then to help reduce the ancillary equipment costs.


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/006001d6edec%24c6b454a0%24541cfde0%24%40oca.ac.uk.


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Eugene Chang

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Jan 21, 2021, 12:56:53 PM1/21/21
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I am very interested in this work. There is one issue holding me back from building a few devices for test. How do you think about troubleshooting? I am having difficulty creating a process to help a user that says it was working yesterday; now it doesn’t work. What is your approach to this?
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david...@oca.ac.uk

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Jan 21, 2021, 3:10:40 PM1/21/21
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Hi All

 

I’ve been playing 😊

 

I bought a Zero PI made by Friendly Elec – including the metal case, it cost me about £22.  With the SD card and the power supply, that is less than £30.  ARMv7 with 512G and a GigE port.

 

I put the Sabrent USB audio card in, flash a Debian Duster image, loaded up jack and jacktrip and…. connected to my loopback jacktrip server!

 

It is superb.  Other than one issue in that the Sabrent card is only outputting in one ear at the moment (trying to track that down – could be the card), I can’t really tell the difference between the PI4 and this.  The latency to the loopback is around the same.

 

Given that the Sabrent dongle is about that means I have a jacktrip client for LESS than £40!

 

Which brings me to the next question.

 

Is there anyway I can get the Virtual Studio front end to put on just to test out?


(Also, has anyone come across issues with one-channel sound on the Sabrent dongle or maybe I’ve gone wrong in jack somewhere?)

 

Picture of the setup which is TINY below.

 

David

 

Image.jpeg

image002.jpg

David Lake

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Jan 22, 2021, 3:08:10 AM1/22/21
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I'm resending this from the Google Groups page as I'm not sure it went out.

The system I've built on a ZeroPi works really well - the audio card is stereo for playback but only mono on record - I've just ordered an Axagon ADA-17 which claims to be stereo on both record and playback (and still cheap at about £15-20).

Whilst it works, what I can't find is the repo for the "Virtual Studio" front-end so actually joining a server is a CLI process.

Can someone point me to the Virtual Studio code please so that I can load it up?

I've also found a site where I can bulk order the ZeroPI and the cost (with case) comes down to £12 each - at these kind of prices, the power supply is more expensive than the compute...

David

Robert Holland

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Jan 22, 2021, 8:11:57 AM1/22/21
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Hi David.

This all looks excellent.

Let me know if I can help in any way as this may help me persuade a few more people to run with JackTrip.

I had a quick look at the ZeroPi schematic earlier today and noted that the H3 device used has an Audio Codec on chip but is not connected on this particular PCB.

Not sure what exactly you're looking for - I guess you'll want to build the image - but just in case you've missed these...



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/9f34db42-1418-4b95-85ed-c0da88e037cen%40googlegroups.com.

david...@oca.ac.uk

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Jan 22, 2021, 8:20:32 AM1/22/21
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Hi Robert

 

The image doesn’t load onto the ZeroPI directly so I have had to build a new OS from Debian (using Armbian).

 

That means I don’t have things like jacktrip-agent or mDNS loading right now and I’ll have to install those manually to the ZeroPI.

 

At the moment, I’m manually running jackd and jacktrip to route the audio.

 

I can try and copy what I have on my PI4 and copy to the ZeroPI but I’m worried I’ll miss something so ideally I’d like the source for the image?

 

I’ve copied all of /usr/local/bin across and it works so they are obviously binary-compatible but I could be missing dependencies/config files.


Also I need to know how the system is laid out…

 

The Audio Codec on H3 is pretty bad – the sound quality out of the Sabrent is much better.

 

Thanks


David

 

From: jacktri...@googlegroups.com <jacktri...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Robert Holland
Sent: 22 January 2021 13:12
To: jacktri...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jacktrip-users] RaspberryPI HiFiBerry amp

 

Hi David.

 

 

Robert Holland

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Jan 22, 2021, 8:41:35 AM1/22/21
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Thanks for that David. Having now read a bit about Armbian I'd guessed that might be what you needed but I can't help on this right now.

I was thinking this might easily be configured to start up and connect to a particular server which would make it really easy for choir members - just power up and join the rehearsal. One could easily extend this with a very simple user interface (touch buttons/faders, display etc) for volume controls by using the console debug serial port.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/010b01d6f0c1%245a992a70%240fcb7f50%24%40oca.ac.uk.
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