what are steps to create unmanaged server?

[David Theriault]

Hi,

I'm looking for some help to set up an unmanaged server.  I've gone throught the documentation on the jacktrip.zendesk, read through various conversations in this forum, but I'm still missing something of what needs to happen next. Apologies in advance if I'm asking a dumb question. 

I live in London UK, looking to start a projec with a collection of musicians here.  Using a managed server from North America is, as stated in doc, not going to work here.

Here's where I'm at:

- running a Mac with Catelina

- have the latest jack (0.3.6) installled and running

- have jacktrip (1.2.1)  installed and responding correctly to -v and -s with Term

- next.....?

Documentation says tthe next step is, using the Virtual Server Web application, go to the form for a managed server and disable the managed switch.

But where did the Virtual Server come from? and how to address it?

For a managed server, it seems to be necessary to install a disk image on a Raspberry Pi. Is that also true of unmanaged? Can I create the server on the Mac?

thanks in advance,

David

[David Theriault]

forgot to mention other critical gear in my studio....

- MOTU 828x audio i/f

- Focusrite Scarlett 18i8

r, David.

[Michael Dessen]

Hi David,

To use your Mac as a server you'll first need to set up port forwarding. The way to do that depends on your router/ISP but youc an probably find the information online. Note that opening ports introduces potential security risks. See the section "Network Ports" on this doc and open the ports listed there under "hub mode" (i.e. TCP port 4464 and UDP range 61002 to 62000):
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/docs/common/IETF.html

Then start Jack with the settings you want (sample rate and frames/period) and enter the JackTrip Hub mode server command on that machine (select your patching mode - see Hub Patching on that page linked above). You can then login to the VS web app (you don't need to have a Pi device, just a login) and create a new server, deselecting the "managed box":
https://jacktrip.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360056926013-Creating-Unmanaged-Servers

As it says there, "This will add additional prompts for you to input the "Server Host" and "Server Port." For Host put the IP of your server machine. For port put 4464 (unless you've changed the defaults somehow in your jacktrip command).

People can then join with a VS device via the web app or they can also join from a computer running jacktrip the normal way. In the latter case they won't appear in the web app, but you'll see them in Qjackctl Connections window, where you can also manage routing manually if you like. (The server machine will route automatically based on the selected patch mode but you can always change that once people join.)

Best,

Michael

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[David Theriault]

Hi Michael,

thanks - you correctly spotted the two bits of documentation I had missed -  the ports setup and the key bit of info in the section "Getting Started with a Virtual Studio Device" ( I skipped that since I reckoned I don't need the device.) Halfway done at 'Enter JackTrip URL'  is the key ingredient !

I'll give this a try tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

cheers,

David

[David Theriault]

Hi.....  although a bit of progress, now stuck at a new place.   In the web browser, typing  'http://jacktrip.local'  (or the IP address of the server) has no effect.

Here's what I've done:

- on my router, I've set up the Port forwarding

- setup firewall to accept incoming on 4464 and 61002-62000.  I've also turned off the firewall for debugging, no effect

-  started Jack (qjackctl)

- and started jacktrip...

Cygnus:~ David$ jacktrip -S

mThreadPool default maxThreadCount = 8

mThreadPool maxThreadCount set to 128

JackTrip HUB SERVER: UDP Base Port set to 61002

JackTrip HUB SERVER: TCP Server Listening in Port = 4464

JackTrip HUB SERVER: Waiting for client connections..
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Hub auto audio patch setting = 0

- I've tried both Safari and Chrome with  http://jacktrip.local but with no result.  Chrome responds with 'The site can't be reached'. Safari doesn't respond at all.

Any suggestions as to what I may have missed or misunderstood?

regards,

David

[Robert Holland]

Hi David,

I wonder if I can help as I'm only 12ms up the M1 in Sheffield and have been through all of this myself recently.

If I get something wrong here others will (I trust) correct me.

AFAIK the http://jacktrip.local thing is only relevant if you are using a Raspberry Pi based Virtual Studio device (either fully assembled or DIY) as a client.

I don't think you're really wanting to do that right now so the Virtual Studio information may be irrelevant. 

Taking a step back from where you are now, first stop the JackTrip hub server using control-C, but make sure the JACK window shows it has started (as per your screenshot).

It looks like your QJackCtl / jack is running OK.

Have you already confirmed that you can loop back your audio locally using the Connections window of Jack? If not, then try connecting a channel on the left hand side (microphone, instrument) to one on the right hand side (speakers, headphones etc) by highlighting these and clicking connect. I initially found the terminology here a bit confusing but I soon got used to it. I'm using a 22 in, 24 out audio device (Tascam Model 24) on macOS BigSur so my setup is very similar. You should be able to patch this so that you can hear yourself. If not, then fix this first. Note here which channels you're using as these may be needed later.

Before running JackTrip as a server, have you first checked that you can connect as a JackTrip hub client against the Stanford loopback? If not, then try this. In your case it looks like you'll need to use...

$jacktrip -C jackloop1024.stanford.edu

When this connects, you should see some connections being made in the Connections window but you might need to change these as the default capture/playback channels 1 & 2 may not match with what you've got connected (I have my mic on capture 4, and my speakers on playback_19, playback_20 for example). If this is working you should hear the clapping track and your audio bounced back (albeit with some latency).

If that's OK then you can stop the client (control-C) and think about the server again...

It looks like you've already set up port forwarding required for a server. I checked mine using the port scan test of the Network Utils app on my iPhone, after first switching off WiFi on the phone so that it was able to test the public facing side of my router. This confirmed that the tcp port 4464 was open as intended. If you can do this it might save some head scratching later.

If you have another machine available to use as a jacktrip client I'd suggest you first try that on the inside of your network - connecting to 192.168.1.106 (I guess this internal address is static to match the port forwarding rule, but I don't know your router). I have a couple of older MBPs which I was able to use for this step and this saved me a lot of time as I was able to work on my own. If not, then you'll probably need to have someone outside your network connect to your JackTrip server. Have you tried this yet? If not and you'd like me to try I'm happy to help, just let me know your public IP address and a suitable time (I'm not going very far at the moment).

What are your other musicians planning to use with JackTrip?

If they are going to use the Raspberry Pi based VIrtual Studio then I can confirm this works well, and that's where the jacktrip.local thing comes in - but only for them, not for you.

What you will need to do for those users is to add a private server at https://app.jacktrip.org/servers (Create Server button) and complete the details having first disabled the Managed Server option. Add your description, your public ip address or fully qualified domain name etc. All this does essentially is to make a link (pointer) to your macOS server that your Virtual Studio devices can use to log on to JackTrip. Alternatively they can connect using a command line login on the Raspberry Pi keyboard/display itself (if it has one) or by using ssh from something else, but that defeats the ease of use of Virtual Studio. Anyone NOT using these Virtual Studio devices will just connect using the public ip address (or fully qualified domain name if you have set one up).

FYI I have a jacktrip server here running on a MBP (no audio interface) which my band/choir members connect to (about 24ms latency from this area). I have my Virtual Studio device connected to my mixer in/out analog channels, and the mixer connected via USB to my iMac (using Logic Pro). I don't normally need to run a jacktrip client on my iMac but it does work fine.

HTH.

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Robert E B Holland

[david...@oca.ac.uk]

Hi Both

 

I have a JackTrip server running in loopback mode in London at the moment which you are welcome to try

 

Jacktrip.lake.to

 

It is running at 48kHz but with a sample size of 128 Bytes.  I’m getting about 8ms RTT to the server and the Virtual Studio is reporting between 7 and 12ms latency.

 

It is very, very good in terms of delay – actually stunning!!!

 

David

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[Robert Holland]

Hi David L.

I've just set up one of these too (after reading your earlier email) following the guide from Michael & Bonnie. I'm getting about 10.7ms ping response from the (London) server from Sheffield compared with 24ms to the other side of my street. Looking forward to trying this out tonight with our choirmaster.

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[david...@oca.ac.uk]

Remember that when you connect on DSL you are tunnelled to the break-out point of the ISP.  Even if you/your neighbour are on the same ISP you will only join somewhere centrally.

I’m just building another PI with a Sabrent audio card to do a direct comparison.   More to follow when it’s ready!

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[David Theriault]

Hi Robert,

yes!  success.

'  AFAIK the http://jacktrip.local thing is only relevant if you are using a Raspberry Pi '     This had occured to me, I wasn't quite sure what I was doing.

'  Have you already confirmed that you can loop back your audio locally using the Connections window of Jack?  '   Yes, familair with Jack - I've used Jack some years back when I had a different audio interface that didn't accomodate any complex routing. Then I got the MOTU 828x  (and MOTU's CueMix) which made it easy, so Jack fell by the wayside.  Agree with you that the terminology requires a few moments of getting used to.

The connection to the Stanford loopback server worked fine, obviously with a bit of latency.

'  If you have another machine available to use as a jacktrip client I'd suggest you first try that   '

Yes, I have a MacBook Pro and a Windows PC that I'll set up next.

'   192.168.1.106 (I guess this internal address is static to match the port forwarding rule   '   It is DHCP assigned at the moment.  I'll fix this, hopefully by using <computername>.local.

' If not and you'd like me to try I'm happy to help, just let me know your public IP address and a suitable time (I'm not going very far at the moment) '    Very kind of you.   I will probably take you up on that over the next few days.

'  What are your other musicians planning to use with JackTrip? '   Herein lies the crux of the problem - a very wide and diverse range of machines, operating systems, audio i/f devices and especially knowledge about IT and networking.   It may be that the raspberry PI is the better route to be going just to keep everything simple and homogenous.  My project is to investigate a working technology, figure out how to set it up on various machines and routers (without causing anyone a security issue) and then deploy to the group. Some of the folks are very technology-shy. And its not like I can go to visit them to set it up.   So I'm working on how to do that.

The Virtual Studio device might be a good solution but for one thing -  I'm not sure about why it is an unbalanced device?  Not a big problem but certainly not convenient.

Interesting setup you've got 

regards,

David

[David Theriault]

Hi David,

many thanks for the link.  My test to use your server worked straight off.   Yes, very fast.

regards,

David T