Setting up your Virtual Studio

[Wm Leler]

I've published an article in Medium titled "Setting up your Virtual Studio"

https://wmleler1.medium.com/setting-up-your-virtual-studio-6a9fbea56f08

This article goes into more depth and is suitable for all skill levels, including newbies.

I tested it out when I helped a choir get online.

If you are interested in knowing more about how to get online using the Virtual Studio, this is for you. Feedback is appreciated.

Wm Leler

[Adrina Phipps]

Wow Wm,

This is EXCELLENT!!!   Your instructions went past the VS device and included the audio device.  Thank you.  I've been watching this Google Group for a couple of weeks, and have been terrified by the technical subjects folks are speaking on.  I finally received my unit yesterday, before you posted this post and fortunately connected fairly easily.  I was wondering about my Focusrite 2i2 audio device and now thanks to you, I know how to connect it.

Thanks again.

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[Robert Holland]

Hi Wm,

This looks great & I'd like to help produce something but more aimed at a UK audience to help move away from the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) which I find is putting off many people I know from using JackTrip (and similar).

This is not being helped by people having very poor experiences to date - supported by those of their friends - of using Zoom and the like for live music making. I'd therefore like to see this FUD turned to FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out), but it's proving hard work. The fact that many (community/amateur musicians) are indeed missing out is evidently true from my own experiences. The recent JackTrip 101 interview and Ragazzi Beyond the Stars performance say just about everything, but I'm not certain these are really being seen for what they are rather than further examples of virtual choirs with individual parts being recorded then stitched together laboriously in the studio. The real 'wow' factor comes about only once you've experienced it working yourself - that's only clear toward the end of the interview.

I guess I came to this community pretty late. I first started playing around with JackTrip in spring 2020 but no one else in my music groups really wanted to know as they all assumed we'd be playing again by early summer. But summer came and went. Until the VS came along later that year there had been much discussion about the need to use a computer (not a phone or tablet), the installation of something called Free Software (with its own history of FUD), the need to accept dire warnings about damage to one's computer and a very complex discussion of something called 'latency' which is very undesirable if you have a lot of it and so is best avoided completely, just in case. FUD. This is all meaningless to some of our community choir members (although they'll happily do FaceBook and Skype on their tablets) and so presenting them with problems they never knew they had is (IMO) not the best way to grab their attention. In normal times this was easily overcome by personal support - people in the choir would go and set up everything for those with fewer techy skills - but of course that's not possible and if it were there would be no need for a VS anyway. But there really is a need - people now simply have no motivation to play their instruments or practice singing if they can't do so within their music groups, but convincing people this need can be satisfied is a big challenge. Only then can the rest of us go and play 'find the router' around their homes with a smartphone camera to support them.

Can I ask whether your modified jacktrip-init.sh has now been adopted?

I spent a couple of hours on the phone the other day with a friend a few miles away who already had a Raspberry pi for his weather station, and a hitherto unsupported USB audio interface (Focusrite Scarlett Solo). This reports "USB Audio" "USB Audio" like many others I've tried. Due to lockdown here I couldn't visit him & neither could I connect remotely (via ssh) to help as asking him to open up a port on his router was definitely taking things too far. I did manage to talk him through adding support for this using an additional if..fi in the jacktrip-init.sh file, and after doing this everything worked perfectly so we spent a couple of hours playing some music. I think your changes already accommodate the generic responses from these adapters (I've not tested) so it would help make life easier if these were added at the earliest opportunity.

Best to all.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/CAHGc_BM9G5gm9y7toQRJGMSPo75KndEy9P_T2HcfAX-xnETx%3Dw%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Robert E B Holland

[neal rhodes]

I'm wondering if it would be useful to back up a smidge higher, and really think about the readership.   Depending on a lot of factors, SOME groups MIGHT be successful, and SOME might not.

- What kind of group are you?   HOW do you sing together?   Are you visually led by a conductor?   Or do you follow the Guitar/Drums/Piano?   What defines your groove?  What are your expectations?  WHAT would make it worth the expense and time?

- What kinds of technical skills do you have?  IF I asked everyone to: - figure out where their router is;   tell me if they have a spare CAT5 port; figure out their public address;  ping a specific host and tell me the times.  What kinds of response would we have.

- What is typical/best/worst internet latency? 

I think there are lots of things like this that would help figure the probability of success.

regards,

Neal

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/CAB_9hjMKoU-0zovJhdWYO4PZ5TPz3Y339ZjfDCjaeDH-V2gKFg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Holland]

Indeed Neal - these are the right sort of questions.

As an embedded hardware/software engineer myself I know it's far too easy to fall into the trap of selling features rather than benefits. As a (now retired) luxury bed and breakfast owner in the UK I also know that it's important to tell a different story to different audiences and so identifying the readership(s) is essential. At the moment I don't know how far this has developed so far but hope to find out more later this evening (22:30 GMT).

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[david...@oca.ac.uk]

Neal

 

Can I have a go at answering these because they have been concerning me for some time.   I’m in the UK as well – by profession I’m an electronics engineer (working for a large IT company based in the Bay Area 😊) part-time academic in 5G/6G research and a part-time pro-musician (classical piano to diploma level, semi-pro Bass Baritone).

 

I also lead two community choirs here in the UK – I suppose what I’m trying to say is that there are MANY answers to your questions and I see it from several sides!!!!  They are GREAT questions…

 

And I think this is a GREAT project that we need SO SO badly at the moment but your point on readership is spot-on….

 

<DL> in-line </DL>

 

David

 

From: jacktri...@googlegroups.com <jacktri...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of neal rhodes
Sent: 01 February 2021 18:37
To: jacktri...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jacktrip-users] Setting up your Virtual Studio

 

I'm wondering if it would be useful to back up a smidge higher, and really think about the readership.   Depending on a lot of factors, SOME groups MIGHT be successful, and SOME might not.

 

- What kind of group are you?   HOW do you sing together?   Are you visually led by a conductor?   Or do you follow the Guitar/Drums/Piano?   What defines your groove?  What are your expectations?  WHAT would make it worth the expense and time?

 

<DL> The majority of amateur music making in the UK is by people with no formal music training for whom it is primarily a social activity.  The “British Choral Society” is a tradition that goes back a long way and they exist as standalone groups rather than any religious attachment (in other words, no funding!)   There are also smaller, pro and semi-pro groups that tend to be selected, trained singers who work for money (one group I’m in records backing tracks for games – if you’ve heard any of Jessica Curry’s work, chances are I was in there somewhere 😊)

 

Most towns across the UK will have a choral society of something between 50 and 150 members who meet once-a-week to sing.  The only professional in the room will be the music director and for the most part an accompanist.   Most are un-auditioned.  The average age for many of these groups is mid-70s up.

 

Compare this with the smaller number of chamber groups that tend to be auditioned, made up of singers/musicians (usually Grade 8 up) and much younger (average age I would say mid/late 40s).  Again these will be lead by a music director but most will be capable solo singers so the MD is concentrating on blend rather than notes…  These are less common in the smaller towns and villages but the big cities all have very fine chamber groups.

 

Music tuition is just-about do-able over Zoom on a one-to-one basis – for my lessons, I tried to put a JackTrip box by my piano but this would have meant having an Ethernet cable through the entire house up the stairs so Zoom for me is good enough (for now).

 

Certainly on the classical side, the smaller groups have tended to be aligned with educational activities many of which have been allowed to carry on – the definition has been that “amateur” music making was suspended but “professional” including rehearsals and performance without an audience were OK. </DL>

 

- What kinds of technical skills do you have?  IF I asked everyone to: - figure out where their router is;   tell me if they have a spare CAT5 port; figure out their public address;  ping a specific host and tell me the times.  What kinds of response would we have.

 

<DL> In the community choirs/recreational music-making, assume none and you’re about right.   No-one will know where the router is – many will have had their Internet setup by their children or grandchildren.   In one of my groups of 140, over half only had an iPad/tablet on WiFi.   Most times, the router will be located by the front door where the BT line is terminated not the lounge area.   I have ~10 people in my choir that have no WiFi – they rely on LTE in their iPads (LTE is essentially free here now….).   I cannot begin to tell you the uphill struggle it has been to get people on weekly Zoom calls.  This just isn’t everyday technology at-all.

 

In the chamber groups you stand more of a chance of people knowing what is around but again everyone relies on WiFi from the DSL router to their devices. </DL>

 

- What is typical/best/worst internet latency? 

 

<DL> That depends on the provider’s architecture.  The vast majority of ISPs in the UK are DSL based using PPPoE to a DSLAM/Aggregation point.   There is essentially one provider to the home – OpenReach (used to be part of BT) – but they are not allowed to sell retail broadband.  Instead we have a myriad of retail providers that basically build Layer 2 tunnels between the home and their aggregation point.  At last count, we had 178 active ISPs and there is strong encouragement to switch frequently (and it is VERY easy to do).   And this is where the problem comes in with latency.

 

Most ISPs will build around a single anchor point in the country but no two ISPs are likely to have a common location – I’ve just moved ISPs and my new provider anchors me 250 miles away whereas the last one was 100 miles.   So, the chances of any two choir members being on the same anchor point is minimal.

 

So to “hop” between two choir members even if they live next door to each other and are on the SAME ISP, chances are that there is 200+ mile trip involved.  If they are on DIFFERENT ISPs (which is very likely) then they will need to go across an IXP (and they are severely overloaded).  Assume most people have delivered speeds of around 15Mbit/s – rural locations will be down at 2Mbit/s, some town locations 76Mbit/s.   There is some DOCSIS around from one provider (Virgin Media) but it is very poor quality and highly overloaded (legacy of the financial collapse of the cable TV system in the UK in the 2000s).   Fibre-to-the-home is available in some locations but is primarily marketed as a home-office premium service and is still PPPoE.

 

The best solution is to have a server located in a provider that has a direct link to as-many retail ISPs as possible – for example, Linode peer directly with about 20 of the major retail ISPs so you can get one-way latency from most UK locations down to about 10ms although 15-20 is more typical.

 

On LTE, whilst we have about 40 MVNOs, they are really sharing the 5 major MNOs core networks who each run a single PGW.   Latency is actually more predictable on LTE but typically around 45-50ms.  </DL>

 

<DL> There is one other matter – cost.   My largest choral society is currently loosing around £4,000 per year and has been for a number of years (we’re staring down a £15,000 loss for 2020/21 which could be the end of the group in its 80^th year...).  Over 30% of our members are on some kind of income support so pay reduced subscriptions – we have a duty to be open and inclusive but in no way can we afford to run the server or finance the RaspberryPIs.  It’s a real problem – for many of these people, singing is the one social activity they do each week and our charitable status recognises that.   Income from concerts (which we can’t do at the moment) has been loss-making for years.

 

The common mantra from government is that the Internet is a wonderful thing which has allowed us to carry on “as normal” whilst COVID rages – any choral society leader/member will tell you just how far from the truth this is…

 

As I’ve put on this list, I’ve been playing with building the VS on a ZeroPI ARM box to reduce the cost – I’m joining the session this evening and will happily show this.

 

However, even if we bring the cost down to the $20/30 range, connectivity remains an issue.

 

I live in (by UK standards) a large house – detached with 10 ft to my nearest neighbour.  The street is “low density” in that the houses are quite spread out compared with most housing stock.  Even here a quick scan on 2.4GHz reveals 9 visible SSIDs.  Plus we have two DECT phone systems and I know that my neighbour has a DECT system (all 2.4GHz) The microwave oven causes a 10% drop in throughput – I must get that checked some time….!  

 

The answer could be WiFi6 but I suspect that will be many years before it is common and would need people to change their DSL router.    I’m wondering if some kind of dedicated, scheduled wireless LAN link using could be dreamt up to overcome this problem…. </DL>

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[Wm Leler]

Thanks for the feedback. Glad this is being helpful.

If you are interested in more information about using different audio devices, I’ve written an article about that too. I have not published it yet because I’ve been working with the JackTrip Foundation people to make some changes to their software to make this much easier. Those changes are discussed in the current draft of the article.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jtnWEsLEt3lfJjqtlQriXOR7B5rb0PyMrvU51t1I2AI/edit?usp=sharing

Bottom line is that you will probably have a problem hooking up an audio interface to a VS device, because it is going to want to use its built-in audio interface. But you can hook your Focusrite 2i2 to a Raspberry Pi directly.

—wm

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/CAHGc_BM9G5gm9y7toQRJGMSPo75KndEy9P_T2HcfAX-xnETx%3Dw%40mail.gmail.com.

[neal rhodes]

A couple of suggestions.

Regarding desktop PC microphones - the HiFiBerry absolutely WILL provide 2.5V bias voltage.   You just have to set jumper pins J1 and J3, and enable it, eg:

/usr/bin/amixer set 'ADC Mic Bias',0 'Mic Bias on'   (Might not also the stock HiFi card does NOT provide this.)

We do that for all 7 of the VS devices in our ensemble and they work fine.   I did have to hack the setup.   I fussed at the foundation folks for NOT setting that on startup if they recognize a HiFiBerry Pro card; I can't see the harm, since it won't actually supply the voltage without those jumpers.

Regarding headphone amps - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0841VQWLT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 is a little more than the Mackie, but it has both 1/4 AND 1/8 outputs, and 1/4 AND 1/8 AND RCA inputs,  AND a mono/stereo switch.  So you have less extra adapters which can mean less connection failures.

Regarding USB interfaces - how can we get to some quality metric on these?   We started with the UGreen, but gave up on it because we thought the pre-amp was crap, it was noisy once we cranked up the gain enough to be usable as an area mic.   Since we were using the Virginia server, the total latency was also unusable.    I don't know if we should try this again with the condenser mic below now that we have a Jacktrip server in my office.   Right now, we can't roll out more VS boxes because, well besides money, we can't get HiFiBerry cards.   If one of those USB cards is honestly usable we could re-visit that.   We could put it in a HiFi compatible case and still preserve our future options.

Regarding mics, it seems like we could all benefit from some crowd-sourcing of where the best compromises are regarding sensitivity/cost.   We initially used a $6 amazon desktop mic, and gravitated to a $15 alleged "condenser" mic because it offered good ensemble pickup for couples at a modest distance.    IMHO, I think the foundation recommendations on a big honking pro-audio mic, then an XLR to 1/8 cable, and then of course you need a mic stand, because you are a choir, and you have a 12 page score in your hands, is a bit suspect.    We gravitate towards the bluegrass area mic strategy.  So we need good response at 12", including off to one side.   It's hard for two people to "eat the mic" when they have banjos and guitars in the way.

Regarding build your own, we've been 3d printing our own HiFiBerry compatible cases.  I found a design that was close, and modified it to have a hole for the mic input.  I could supply the .STL file.  That brings the case cost down to maybe $2 of filament.

Thank you for your efforts on this.

Best regards,

Neal

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/9977A0D3-8FFD-4822-BCE9-4173CE68D826%40leler.com.

[neal rhodes]

ooh, found my notes on mics:  Looking for the best/cheap solution for singer/musician couples recording from home, I tested a $5 desktop mic, and then one of our couples found this $15 alleged condenser mic: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GZSQNT7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1  so I made a head-to-head test, using Audacity, on a notebook, with record input set to 80%.   Tested at 3", 12", 12" at a 45 degree angle, 12" at a 90".    The above mic has 15% one star reviews, but I gotta say, it was hotter in all those tests, and had more of the proximity effect for consonants than the desktop mic.   Not as good as a real MXL 990 at 24", but workable for ensemble recording.  (there's a real limit on how close two people and two instruments can get.   Just make sure you get one with free returns, 'cause there seems to be a 15% DOA.

[Wm Leler]

Great information. Thanks so much!

I tested a bunch of different sound adapters (thank goodness for Amazon's easy return policy) and for a couple of microphones.

I have written a separate article, about building your own lower cost device, which I will publish as soon as the JackTrip Foundation people make an update to the software (which I've sent to them), and when they start selling the MicroSD cards already loaded with the disk image for the device. But meanwhile, here it is. Hope this helps!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jtnWEsLEt3lfJjqtlQriXOR7B5rb0PyMrvU51t1I2AI/edit?usp=sharing

--wm

[David Lake]

I'm presenting at the next (or maybe the next next) JackTrip meeting with the ZeroPI VS I've been working on and I'm using this USB audio card:

https://www.axagon.eu/en/produkty/ada-17

It's available for abou EUR17 and it is excellent - great sound quality on the headphones AND it presents two channels from the microphone (mono input).   It worked out-the-box with ALSA on Debian 10 on the ZeroPI (same build as the RaspberryPI VS build).

I tried with the Sabrent which I found was one-channel only on the mic and had issues with clicking noises.

David

[neal rhodes]

Hmm. I'm having trouble finding a source for that audio board in the US.

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[david...@oca.ac.uk]

Shame – it is very, very good.

 

It reports on USB as 0d8c:0043 C-Media Electronics, Inc.

 

http://www.improwis.com/notes/usb-audio.webt tells me it is based on the CM6533 and I’ve just verified that the mic input is STEREO via a 3.5mm with bias voltage on each channel.

 

If you plug a mono mic in, it autodetects and put the mic on both channels (unlike the Sabrent which seems to default to single channel.

 

I wonder if there is anything else based on the same chipset?

David

 

From: jacktri...@googlegroups.com <jacktri...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of neal rhodes

Sent: 03 February 2021 14:50
To: jacktri...@googlegroups.com

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[david...@oca.ac.uk]

OK – there seem to be a number of similar modules based on the same chip:

 

Hama “7.1 Surround” USB Sound Card

Delock 63926

 

David

 

From: jacktri...@googlegroups.com <jacktri...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of neal rhodes

Sent: 03 February 2021 14:50
To: jacktri...@googlegroups.com

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[Robert Holland]

Has anyone looked at this?

https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Nowsonic-USB-PrePen-XLR-Audio-Interface/3OF1

£22 in the UK & includes phantom voltage, gain and monitor controls & headphone output. This may be something new on its way in, but it could also be on its way out.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jacktrip-users/03f101d6fa5b%24167347b0%244359d710%24%40oca.ac.uk.

[Robert Holland]

Looking at Wm's DIYVS build, he mentions the Startech USB audio interface at around $30.

The Behringer Uphoria UM2 is available at £30 in the UK (https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0AVV).

Using something like this might avoid a number of cable adapters which otherwise add to the overall cost.

[Carlos Aguayo]

Seems legit, but it also appears to be a ripoff of this:

https://www.gear4music.com/us/en/Recording-and-Computers/SubZero-XLR-to-USB-Signal-Converter-and-Mic-Preamp/1PNG

I'd like to try this out myself!

Carlos

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[Wm Leler]

Here is the updated jacktrip-init.sh file mentioned in the DIYVS article. This is the same file that is at

https://github.com/wmleler/jacktrip/ (along with installation instructions). The purpose of this file is to allow a RaspberryPi to work with almost any audio interface (USB, or the supported ones that use the RPi header interface).

I would really appreciate it if people try out this file on various systems and make sure there are no bugs or other issues with it. I've tried it out on a number of USB interfaces (which found a bug, which I fixed, caused when you have more than one audio interface connected). Any other feedback appreciated!

--wm

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[Robert Holland]

I'll check this for you with my interfaces tomorrow Wm.

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[david...@oca.ac.uk]

Working for me with ZeroPI and the Sabrent and Axagon USB modules…

 

I think the combined mix/headphone is a really good idea.  I bought one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kmise-Professional-Microphone-Adjustable-Multisystem/dp/B0836P936Z

 

It works, BUT…

 

The headphones also monitor the microphone which means you hear yourself.  On Windows you can change this so that the headphones just hear the output from the PC and the monitor volume is controlled on the mic.

 

On Linux, something different happens.  The volume control applies to both the output of the mic and the output of the headphones so you always end up hearing yourself and in order to generate audio to capture you have to have the volume turned up full.

 

So with -p4 on the server, you hear yourself twice – once direct, once on the loop – horrible.

 

I’ve played with Alsamixer and no go – I suspect it is a bug in how it works.

 

I gave up – it’s not a great mic or sound card anyway.  

 

The Nowsonic looks like it could be a really good idea though with the ZeroPI….

 

David

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[Wm Leler]

David, I have a spare PiZeroW, and I'd love to try it out running the Virtual Studio code you've ported to it. Do you have a disk image? My email is w...@leler.com

--wm

[david...@oca.ac.uk]

I’m not using a PiZero – I’m using a ZeroPI made by FriendlyElec.

 

I don’t have an image – I had to install the components separately on stock Debian 10 and then copied the Virtual Studio components from my PI4 to the ZeroPI.  Standard Debian 10 install with latest updates.    Key items to have are:

 

Avahi-daemon

Ntp

Jackd

Jacktrip (cloned 1.3.0 and built from repo rather than taking from dist).

Alsa-utils (not sure if 100% needed by I found it useful)

 

The ZeroPI uses an Allwinner H3 ARMv7 which is a quad-core based on the Cortex-A series.  The PIZero is ARMv7 but only single-core.

 

Porting most of VS was fine – I couldn’t find the source repo for the Virtual Studio code but 99% of it is shell scripts to underlying Linux.

 

However the main program “jacktrip-agent” seems to be written in Go which means that unless the two platforms are binary-compatible you won’t be able to just move it across.

 

Is there a repo for jacktrip-agent?

 

One gotcha – the RTT measurement is being done using ICMP and by default is blocked in net.ipv4 – you’ll need to add sysctl -w net.ipv4.ping_group_range="0 2147483647"

 

I also had to comment-out the update lines in the systemd scripts because I don’t want my config over-written. 

 

The VS box is actually pretty dumb – once avahi-daemon is running jacktrip-agent intercepts HTTP to the local name and fires it to the app.jacktrip.org site – anything you do on the “local” VS is actually (I think) SSH-ed back to the box.

 

I’d be really interested in how you get on with the PIZeroW – I have one on the bench running my bus arrivals display system (so I know when the next bus is coming to get to the railway station for the next train up to London – pretty irrelevant at the moment!) so I could try the same.

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[Robert Holland]

Hi Wm,

I tested this with the following USB devices this morning...

Griffin iMic: OK

iRig HD2: OK, but mono only.

Tascam Model24: OK but as I expected by default this uses channels 1 & 2 and the server mix is returned to the same channels. Some means of selecting the channels on such a device is required for this on the VS but I've not looked at this.

My HiFiBerry "hat" is also detected OK.

Suggestion: Unless there are other overriding considerations, could the detection priority be given to USB rather than "hat"? This would make it easier to run such tests in the future and there may be situations where it desirable to plug in a USB device and use that without having to dismantle the VS.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 19:56, Wm Leler <w...@leler.com> wrote:

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[neal rhodes]

Aaaah, the old "remaining Pins versus number of socket insertions" question, eh?

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[Robert Holland]

I normally drive the HiFiBerry from the mixer's sub output, then bring it back in on a separate stereo input strip. This works fine, but I thought I'd try the mixer into the VS device to prove it was being recognised by Wm's changes. I don't think I'd use it like this unless I could bring all the channels back from the server into separate strips on the Tascam.

Cheers

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