J92 or J92s annual carrying costs
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Joshua S. Reisberg
Oct 17, 2011, 11:10:19 AM10/17/11
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Hi,
To start, I am not a J92 owner...but I want to be. I have been searching for a boat that I can primarily use to race double-handed in local distance races on the Western Long Island Sound, including longer races like the Vineyard Race, Around Long Island Race, and potentially the Bermuda 1-2. I've been looking at the Mini 6.50, but have concluded that I don't want my wife to divorce me over a sailboat and would love to spend time sailing with her and our twin girls. So, a 30-footer with basic overnight accommodations (including an enclosed head), is mandatory, if not simply preferred. In this category, I'm looking at the J/92 and J/92s, the Archambault A31, the new Columbia C-32, the Class 950, and, solely because it was at the boat show and my wife wanted to check out a 30-footer, the backstay-less Beneteau First 30. Of this group, the J/92 appears to be the best, given its sail plan and tried-and-true race results. So, I'm seriously considering it.
As part of my research, I would love to hear from some J/92 or J/92s owners on typical annual carrying costs. I understand that it all depends but I'm just looking for some rough numbers based on the owners' experiences.
Thanks,
Josh
To start, I am not a J92 owner...but I want to be. I have been searching for a boat that I can primarily use to race double-handed in local distance races on the Western Long Island Sound, including longer races like the Vineyard Race, Around Long Island Race, and potentially the Bermuda 1-2. I've been looking at the Mini 6.50, but have concluded that I don't want my wife to divorce me over a sailboat and would love to spend time sailing with her and our twin girls. So, a 30-footer with basic overnight accommodations (including an enclosed head), is mandatory, if not simply preferred. In this category, I'm looking at the J/92 and J/92s, the Archambault A31, the new Columbia C-32, the Class 950, and, solely because it was at the boat show and my wife wanted to check out a 30-footer, the backstay-less Beneteau First 30. Of this group, the J/92 appears to be the best, given its sail plan and tried-and-true race results. So, I'm seriously considering it.
As part of my research, I would love to hear from some J/92 or J/92s owners on typical annual carrying costs. I understand that it all depends but I'm just looking for some rough numbers based on the owners' experiences.
Thanks,
Josh
Joe Cooper
Oct 17, 2011, 12:31:49 PM10/17/11
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
Josh
HI I am not a 92 owner either but a lusting wannabee. I reckon a big help would be to get one with a trailer and park her in the driveway over the winter.
Second add on I think about a lot is to set the boat up with a center lift sling like Etchells 22, J 24, J 22 etc.
I visualize a modification to the keel bolt nuts that adds suitably sized rod in the shale of an inverted U welded to the keel bolts and attached to a pair of nuts in the front and a pair in the back of the keel bolt pattern. Then a set of spectra slings, 10 mm say that shackle to the four bolts, meet in an apex, attach to a suitably sized cordage, say 12 mm spectra which then passes thru a removable screw hatch point in the cabin top (Probably thru the hatch garage). I am partial to this mainly because I would keep my 92 (when brought) at Sail Newport on a trailer and they have a center lift crane for such uses.
And on Short handed-DH sailing, you know there are lots of DH events on the sound, plus up here in Newport and at points in between....They are not generally advertized although I have been keeping a calendar (lapsed of late with my new biz adventures) but still lots going on for DH sailing.
Good luck!!!
Bon Courage, as the French Solo sailors say to each other
Coop
--
Joe Cooper
C: 401 965 6006
www.westmainnutrition.com
HI I am not a 92 owner either but a lusting wannabee. I reckon a big help would be to get one with a trailer and park her in the driveway over the winter.
Second add on I think about a lot is to set the boat up with a center lift sling like Etchells 22, J 24, J 22 etc.
I visualize a modification to the keel bolt nuts that adds suitably sized rod in the shale of an inverted U welded to the keel bolts and attached to a pair of nuts in the front and a pair in the back of the keel bolt pattern. Then a set of spectra slings, 10 mm say that shackle to the four bolts, meet in an apex, attach to a suitably sized cordage, say 12 mm spectra which then passes thru a removable screw hatch point in the cabin top (Probably thru the hatch garage). I am partial to this mainly because I would keep my 92 (when brought) at Sail Newport on a trailer and they have a center lift crane for such uses.
And on Short handed-DH sailing, you know there are lots of DH events on the sound, plus up here in Newport and at points in between....They are not generally advertized although I have been keeping a calendar (lapsed of late with my new biz adventures) but still lots going on for DH sailing.
Good luck!!!
Bon Courage, as the French Solo sailors say to each other
Coop
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Joshua S. Reisberg
Oct 17, 2011, 12:42:34 PM10/17/11
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Unfortunately, driveways in Brooklyn are few and far between :-) So she'll be staying in the yard. There's boatyard storage at my club although I don't think our crane can handle more than 2 tons...or is it 3...hmm. J/92 weighs in at just in 6,000 lbs so it may be a possibility. My club uses a center lift sling but we just past the slings underneath the hull. I will say that for boats with center sling setups (e.g., Viper 640), it's much quicker.
Yeah, I try to keep up on all the DH activity on the Sound. I put together a list of Mini-friendly regattas when I thought that was the boat I'd be getting.
Good luck!
Josh
Yeah, I try to keep up on all the DH activity on the Sound. I put together a list of Mini-friendly regattas when I thought that was the boat I'd be getting.
Good luck!
Josh
Joe Cooper
Oct 17, 2011, 1:36:57 PM10/17/11
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Ah. the neighbors would not be impressed...
Did your mini friendly races list look like this, attached?
The same list is obviously suitable for DH J-92's
I have been quite involved in the promotion, creation and development of DH racing for oh 20 plus years. It was I who got the DH class in the Block Island race started in 1991....
And I have a mini also...
Cheers
coop
Did your mini friendly races list look like this, attached?
The same list is obviously suitable for DH J-92's
I have been quite involved in the promotion, creation and development of DH racing for oh 20 plus years. It was I who got the DH class in the Block Island race started in 1991....
And I have a mini also...
Cheers
coop
John Madey
Oct 17, 2011, 1:45:40 PM10/17/11
to j92o...@googlegroups.com, j92o...@googlegroups.com
+1 to what coop said
Find a harbor, they should be able to quote you for a slip. Then find a boat yard for storage 30x10 ft. They should be able to quote you what winterizing the engine and head will cost. Don't forget to ask what they will hit you to lift and launch as well as store the trailer or cradle over the summer. Some place charge for cradle rental over the winter. If you store outdoors ask about shrink wrapping the topsides. Sometimes storing indoors is cheaper when you add in the shrink-wrap .
For sails I figure 2500-3000 a year for each sail. Mains and spins are more jibs are less.
Since the boat is new to you you will want to make changes and upgrades. Figure 1k a year for the first few years
Then of course yacht club dues, race entry fees, dockage for the stops on the way back from the big race. I bring the water and gatoraid and the crew takes turns with the beer and food.
Then of course yacht club dues, race entry fees, dockage for the stops on the way back from the big race. I bring the water and gatoraid and the crew takes turns with the beer and food.
Unless you have access to a 3/4 ton truck don't forget transporting costs to bring your new boat back to it's new home.
If you have it surveyed before purchase (highly recommended) you have to pay for that, $300-$500. Oh and unless it's packed up and ready to go you will have to pay someone to break it down and load it on the trailer.
I'd give you my costs but I am in a very high cost area and that would scare you even more.
These boats are relatively simple and thus trouble free and easy to work on. That's why we love them.
Best advice- crew for Tood he's out that way
John
--
Joe Cooper
Oct 17, 2011, 2:12:56 PM10/17/11
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
Ok a few thoughts.
Small yards-West Harbour in N.Rochelle. Run (owned) by a pleasant old school gent named Art Karphf--I used to call on him when I sold sail down there. NOT sure about the costs but western LIS is an under supplied area (too many boats not enough yards I remember) I think so yards have the upper hand so you might as well deal with a yard where you can talk with the owner.
RE Shrink wrap, if outside is the path, a Fairclough (New haven I think these days) cover pays for itself in a couple of years versus Shrink Wrap
Upgrades-for a wild card on Ockam meters, call Jeff Udell at Custom Offshore in Riverside NJ, HE has been a J-boat trick out shop for 25 years. He often does instrument upgrades and then has a not tio of the line but perfectly serviceable Ockam CPU sitting on his shelf. displays etc are cheap in the scheme and the Ockam is the most accurate meters available, mainly because they remain basically a hobby shop. You can call them in Milford and ask the same basic questions. "Any upgrade units laying in the shelf?" And also talk to the guys who invented it.
As with any TPI product when inspecting review the thru laminate fittings, stanchion bases, clutches, etc. Balsa core is notorious for getting water in it. NO big deal but need-boats are 15-20 years old now dont forget.
Also look for wear at the goose-neck pin where the vertical pin holds the boom toggle to the weldment on the spar. There is often lots of torque in this area- at least on the many goosenecks I have seen over the years.
Sails-I take the 5th on sails having left a name brand in the past year. BUT generally find a shop where you can find someone who is interested in the kind of sailing you are planning and will take the time to plan out an upgrade schedule that works for you and not merely sell you what he wants to....The guys I know and respect in the biz in this regard are Adam Loorey at UK/City Island and Mark Washeim at Doyle in Huntington.
Rigging-Locally in Stamford is Tom at Hathaway in Stamford. McMichales has rigging but some much of what you will need at first might be had off the internet. Otherwise my rigging contacts are all in RI-None in the NYC area lately-they have all moved to FLA...
Cannot remember if the 92 has rod rigging but if so careful inspection of the terminal ends, at spar and any where a fitting attaches to the rod. At 15+ years even Navtec will tell you you are coming up against the end of the useable cycles.
And of course there are the perennial TPI/J boat's chain plates. I reckon you ought to just steel yourself to pulling them cleaning and re-bedding from the get go....
Use my name for any references I make. Ignore the laughter my name generates....
Coop
Out.
Small yards-West Harbour in N.Rochelle. Run (owned) by a pleasant old school gent named Art Karphf--I used to call on him when I sold sail down there. NOT sure about the costs but western LIS is an under supplied area (too many boats not enough yards I remember) I think so yards have the upper hand so you might as well deal with a yard where you can talk with the owner.
RE Shrink wrap, if outside is the path, a Fairclough (New haven I think these days) cover pays for itself in a couple of years versus Shrink Wrap
Upgrades-for a wild card on Ockam meters, call Jeff Udell at Custom Offshore in Riverside NJ, HE has been a J-boat trick out shop for 25 years. He often does instrument upgrades and then has a not tio of the line but perfectly serviceable Ockam CPU sitting on his shelf. displays etc are cheap in the scheme and the Ockam is the most accurate meters available, mainly because they remain basically a hobby shop. You can call them in Milford and ask the same basic questions. "Any upgrade units laying in the shelf?" And also talk to the guys who invented it.
As with any TPI product when inspecting review the thru laminate fittings, stanchion bases, clutches, etc. Balsa core is notorious for getting water in it. NO big deal but need-boats are 15-20 years old now dont forget.
Also look for wear at the goose-neck pin where the vertical pin holds the boom toggle to the weldment on the spar. There is often lots of torque in this area- at least on the many goosenecks I have seen over the years.
Sails-I take the 5th on sails having left a name brand in the past year. BUT generally find a shop where you can find someone who is interested in the kind of sailing you are planning and will take the time to plan out an upgrade schedule that works for you and not merely sell you what he wants to....The guys I know and respect in the biz in this regard are Adam Loorey at UK/City Island and Mark Washeim at Doyle in Huntington.
Rigging-Locally in Stamford is Tom at Hathaway in Stamford. McMichales has rigging but some much of what you will need at first might be had off the internet. Otherwise my rigging contacts are all in RI-None in the NYC area lately-they have all moved to FLA...
Cannot remember if the 92 has rod rigging but if so careful inspection of the terminal ends, at spar and any where a fitting attaches to the rod. At 15+ years even Navtec will tell you you are coming up against the end of the useable cycles.
And of course there are the perennial TPI/J boat's chain plates. I reckon you ought to just steel yourself to pulling them cleaning and re-bedding from the get go....
Use my name for any references I make. Ignore the laughter my name generates....
Coop
Out.
Joshua S. Reisberg
Oct 17, 2011, 2:28:57 PM10/17/11
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
Here's the SA thread I started based on my research.
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=125737
There's some overlap. In terms of low-key events, I only looked at local WLIS regattas in which I've sailed or heard of. I haven't done an exhaustive analysis of clubs up and down the Sound with mini-friendly distance races. It looks like the only conflicts between your list and mine are Annapolis-Newport and Marblehead-Halifax. For all races I that I researched, I only looked at the NORs. Whereas the NORs for Annapolis-Bermuda, for example, specified welcoming Minis if at least three enlist, the NORs for A-N and M-H, at least from what I can remember, made no reference to Mini participation. But I didn't speak with anybody so your research may be more accurate than mine.
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=125737
There's some overlap. In terms of low-key events, I only looked at local WLIS regattas in which I've sailed or heard of. I haven't done an exhaustive analysis of clubs up and down the Sound with mini-friendly distance races. It looks like the only conflicts between your list and mine are Annapolis-Newport and Marblehead-Halifax. For all races I that I researched, I only looked at the NORs. Whereas the NORs for Annapolis-Bermuda, for example, specified welcoming Minis if at least three enlist, the NORs for A-N and M-H, at least from what I can remember, made no reference to Mini participation. But I didn't speak with anybody so your research may be more accurate than mine.
Joshua S. Reisberg
Oct 17, 2011, 2:31:52 PM10/17/11
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
I'm a member at Larchmont YC. Don't know if that is in a high-cost area, but I'm more than willing to have the s**t scared out of me--preferably before I buy the boat :-)
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 1:45 PM, John Madey <lis...@gmail.com> wrote:
John Madey
Oct 17, 2011, 3:46:12 PM10/17/11
to j92o...@googlegroups.com, j92o...@googlegroups.com
I'm in Chicago probably the most expensive in the country. From May 1 to October 31 season we pay $40 a ft for a mooring and up to $130 a ft for a walk on dock. Electricity is extra, no cable tv but a great view of the skyline. Small discount for Chicago residents.
Storage off of the river ranges from $1000 for outdoor bring your own cradle 20 miles down river to $3500 for indoor heated near downtown. Winterizing is extra
You really need to make some phone calls.
Joe Cooper
Oct 17, 2011, 7:32:06 PM10/17/11
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
Josh, You have inquired at LYC about moorings, right? ow long is the waiting list?
West harbour is down the rd, west from LYC fyi.
cheers
c
--
West harbour is down the rd, west from LYC fyi.
cheers
c
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Josh Reisberg
Oct 17, 2011, 7:46:29 PM10/17/11
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Yes. Just a matter of buying the ground tackle.
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
Pete Tyler
Oct 18, 2011, 6:13:09 AM10/18/11
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
Pete from Brighton in the UK here,
I think running costs are cheaper in the USA so don’t squeal too much
My theory has always been never to keep a track of costs – if you did that you would take up chess as a hobby instead!!
I have transferred to a J105 this season, suits our sailing/racing/delivery needs better . Had a great few seasons in J92 and then a J92S. 92S is a much better boat to sail
My J92s is for sale if anyone needs a fun-fix!
http://www.keyyachting.com/searchjuk.php?rPage=/privatelabel/listing/pl_boat_detail_handler.jsp?slim=pp276654&units=Feet&boat_id=2284984&primary_photo_id=11&primary_photo_url=http%3A%2F%2Fnewimages.yachtworld.com%2Fresize%2F1%2F50%2F91%2F3065091_0_131220101517_1.jpg&back=%2Fprivatelabel%2Flisting%2Fcache%2Fpl_search_results.jsp%3Fman%3DJ%2BBoats%26slim%3Dpp276654%26sm%3D3%26cit%3Dtrue&searchtype=buy
Best Regards
Pete
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From: John Madey <lis...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <j92o...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:46:12 -0500
To: "j92o...@googlegroups.com" <j92o...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "j92o...@googlegroups.com" <j92o...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [j92owners] J92 or J92s annual carrying costs
I'm in Chicago probably the most expensive in the country. From May 1 to October 31 season we pay $40 a ft for a mooring and up to $130 a ft for a walk on dock. Electricity is extra, no cable tv but a great view of the skyline. Small discount for Chicago residents.
Storage off of the river ranges from $1000 for outdoor bring your own cradle 20 miles down river to $3500 for indoor heated near downtown. Winterizing is extra
You really need to make some phone calls.
On Oct 17, 2011, at 1:31 PM, "Joshua S. Reisberg" <jrei...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm a member at Larchmont YC. Don't know if that is in a high-cost area, but I'm more than willing to have the s**t scared out of me--preferably before I buy the boat :-)
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 1:45 PM, John Madey <lis...@gmail.com <mailto:lis...@gmail.com> > wrote:
+1 to what coop said
Find a harbor, they should be able to quote you for a slip. Then find a boat yard for storage 30x10 ft. They should be able to quote you what winterizing the engine and head will cost. Don't forget to ask what they will hit you to lift and launch as well as store the trailer or cradle over the summer. Some place charge for cradle rental over the winter. If you store outdoors ask about shrink wrapping the topsides. Sometimes storing indoors is cheaper when you add in the shrink-wrap .
For sails I figure 2500-3000 a year for each sail. Mains and spins are more jibs are less.
Since the boat is new to you you will want to make changes and upgrades. Figure 1k a year for the first few years
Then of course yacht club dues, race entry fees, dockage for the stops on the way back from the big race. I bring the water and gatoraid and the crew takes turns with the beer and food.
Unless you have access to a 3/4 ton truck don't forget transporting costs to bring your new boat back to it's new home.
If you have it surveyed before purchase (highly recommended) you have to pay for that, $300-$500. Oh and unless it's packed up and ready to go you will have to pay someone to break it down and load it on the trailer.
I'd give you my costs but I am in a very high cost area and that would scare you even more.
Now that I scared the $&@€ out of you, how to get some costs out? Get the crew involved getting the boat ready and putting it away. Sometimes the slightly further away harbor is cheaper. Same with storage, I found a cheap yard only to find that everything was extra, crane fee, travel lift fee, moving the boat fee the list went on with these guys.
These boats are relatively simple and thus trouble free and easy to work on. That's why we love them.
Best advice- crew for Tood he's out that way
John
On Oct 17, 2011, at 10:10 AM, "Joshua S. Reisberg" <jrei...@gmail.com <mailto:jrei...@gmail.com> > wrote:
Hi,
To start, I am not a J92 owner...but I want to be. I have been searching for a boat that I can primarily use to race double-handed in local distance races on the Western Long Island Sound, including longer races like the Vineyard Race, Around Long Island Race, and potentially the Bermuda 1-2. I've been looking at the Mini 6.50, but have concluded that I don't want my wife to divorce me over a sailboat and would love to spend time sailing with her and our twin girls. So, a 30-footer with basic overnight accommodations (including an enclosed head), is mandatory, if not simply preferred. In this category, I'm looking at the J/92 and J/92s, the Archambault A31, the new Columbia C-32, the Class 950, and, solely because it was at the boat show and my wife wanted to check out a 30-footer, the backstay-less Beneteau First 30. Of this group, the J/92 appears to be the best, given its sail plan and tried-and-true race results. So, I'm seriously considering it.
As part of my research, I would love to hear from some J/92 or J/92s owners on typical annual carrying costs. I understand that it all depends but I'm just looking for some rough numbers based on the owners' experiences.
Thanks,
Josh
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Joe Cooper
Oct 18, 2011, 9:22:31 AM10/18/11
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
Pete,
Actually some folks are starting to do the math on cost per hour of sailing hence fractional ownership and more charter options...
According to my reading in PBO Yachting monthly etc the south of England is considerably oversubscribed for boating accommodations...
Could you share :
Cost for a slip for a J92. comment too if you can on sophistication of marina (services on site verse merely a garage for the boat) and general proximity to either your home or your preferred sailing venue-such metrics of course play into the "value" of paying X for a slip that is convenient to you you versus Y for a cheaper slip at greater distance from sailing or home.
Wot is cost of insurance for a 92 for sailing in the south of the UK?
What is cost for a new race main in the UK for a J92? some basic specs on material maker where built, UK versus Offshore/china etc, so as to form a reasonable comparison in the US please...
How do you like the 105? I do lots of DH racing on one and love it...
Cheers
Cooper
Actually some folks are starting to do the math on cost per hour of sailing hence fractional ownership and more charter options...
According to my reading in PBO Yachting monthly etc the south of England is considerably oversubscribed for boating accommodations...
Could you share :
Cost for a slip for a J92. comment too if you can on sophistication of marina (services on site verse merely a garage for the boat) and general proximity to either your home or your preferred sailing venue-such metrics of course play into the "value" of paying X for a slip that is convenient to you you versus Y for a cheaper slip at greater distance from sailing or home.
Wot is cost of insurance for a 92 for sailing in the south of the UK?
What is cost for a new race main in the UK for a J92? some basic specs on material maker where built, UK versus Offshore/china etc, so as to form a reasonable comparison in the US please...
How do you like the 105? I do lots of DH racing on one and love it...
Cheers
Cooper
Joshua S. Reisberg
Jun 11, 2012, 11:17:09 AM6/11/12
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
Hi Joe,
Are you the Joe Cooper who is or was co-skipper to Peter Rugg on Jaded? If so, I'm curious how the Jaded is set up differently from OD 105s (other than the spectra Solet stay. Any insight you could provide (assuming you're the correct Joe Cooper) would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Josh
Joshua S. Reisberg
Jun 11, 2012, 11:18:19 AM6/11/12
to j92o...@googlegroups.com, bushra...@gmail.com
That was meant to go to Joe Cooper directly. Sorry for the spam.
Joe Cooper
Jun 11, 2012, 11:58:34 AM6/11/12
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
Hi
that is me
Other set up vs the OD 105's--Frankly not much
Ockam instrumens
Raymarine pilot below decks
Simrad controller on pedestal
AP can steer to compass, apparent or true wind
Balmar altenator & extra battery
Storm sails
Lee cloths that work
Masthead 120 sqm kite (sparcraft section so is same as Euro 105's)
Other safety kit as for Cat 2 races, raft flares, radar reflector, jacklines alternate nav lights etc etc.
Boat can be converted into or from OD/DH offshore in about an hour
Three kites:
120 sqm
frac class 89 sqm &
Specific, set on fract halyard, very flat small kite for use in upwind in 0-8 and deeper down to 30kts true wind at 130 true angle, abt 100 apparent at 12 knots BS. All kites in socks for DH, out for crewed.
That is about it.
Oh a sea swing stove.
This help?
You thinking of going DH in a 105?
cheers
c
This help?
that is me
Other set up vs the OD 105's--Frankly not much
Ockam instrumens
Raymarine pilot below decks
Simrad controller on pedestal
AP can steer to compass, apparent or true wind
Balmar altenator & extra battery
Storm sails
Lee cloths that work
Masthead 120 sqm kite (sparcraft section so is same as Euro 105's)
Other safety kit as for Cat 2 races, raft flares, radar reflector, jacklines alternate nav lights etc etc.
Boat can be converted into or from OD/DH offshore in about an hour
Three kites:
120 sqm
frac class 89 sqm &
Specific, set on fract halyard, very flat small kite for use in upwind in 0-8 and deeper down to 30kts true wind at 130 true angle, abt 100 apparent at 12 knots BS. All kites in socks for DH, out for crewed.
That is about it.
Oh a sea swing stove.
This help?
You thinking of going DH in a 105?
cheers
c
This help?
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