Re: irc ratings

[Todd Aven]

I took the full IRC list and filtered by length/beam/draft/design year to come up with this list. Let me know if your boat has a cert and is not in this list. 

Thanks,

Todd

P.S. Max- looks like you have the fastest J/92 in the world! ;-)


Begin forwarded message:

From: "Aven, Todd S." <todd...@gs.com>
Date: August 23, 2011 12:40:15 EDT
To: "'to...@avenshaven.net'" <to...@avenshaven.net>
Subject: j/92 irc ratings

 

[Richard Huczek]

Well it wasn't and I'd not been able to get better than 5th o.a.,  I didn't realize you don't take a gun to a bomb fight.

See the attached and view the mix for the weekend stuff.

R  #: ]

[Massimo Polo]

...I guess Todd was referring to my beloved "furkolkjaaf", although - if I'm not mistaken - Rick's "max sand" was quite close to...

bloody heck, that's an achievement isnt it :-(

excellent job Todd

cheers

Max

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<J92-IRC-List-2011.pdf>

<max sand J92s.pdf>

[Todd Aven]

Rick,

I tried searching the IRC listing for your boat by name and by sail number, but it's nowhere to be found. There are only 18 boats in the list with a 0.999 rating and none in Canada. 

Any idea why it's missing?

Thanks,

Todd

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On 2011-08-23, at 1:07 PM, Todd Aven wrote:

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<J92-IRC-List-2011.pdf>

<max sand J92s.pdf>

[Richard Huczek]

No.

On 2011-08-23, at 1:07 PM, Todd Aven wrote:

--

[Richard Huczek]

Not a clue, but it's ok, I sold the boat and moved on.

Loved it a lot though.

R

[Privateer #2]

Todd,

In Dubai we run on the southern hemisphere rating due to it being top
hot to race in the summer so my cert is due now for the start of our
new season just waiting on the measurements of our new main to come in
fro Doyle Aus then will put it in and will let you know what we get.
Thanks for the list makes interesting reading.

Matt
#2 Privateer

[Max]

... as an additional comment to my "stellar" rating - assuming there are no errors (as I believe) - my guess is that this has more to do with the big high roach mainsail than with the 93 sqm spinnaker :

http://www.furkolkjaaf.net/Boat_files/ITA-15844%20IRC%20STD.pdf

( I exchanged certs with Rick some time ago, and it appeared that he was at the high value of 0.999 with a similarly sized mainsail )

max

[Andy]

I had an error in the top measurement of my main on Orijin j105 which when corrected took the rating down from 1.022 to 1.015. The LP on the jib was slightly out swell. Definately makes a big difference.
Andy

[Privateer #2]

Having spent lots of time at the bar discussing rating savings with
sail makers,boat builders and riggers the other thing that seems to
massively affect IRC ratings is LLmax

Matt

[Upstart]

I don't seem to be able to see the list. Is it attached somewhere?

[Max]

Todd's list attached.

[Upstart]

Worked out my problem - was viewing it in the old version of google groups....

Thanks a lot for the list Todd, very revealing. I think Nijinsky is missing from it though.

We'll be getting re-measured this winter anyway, but our rating is definitely cause for concern.

Happy to share our certificate if anybody would like to see it.

Tim

[jeff harris]

I'm happy for you to add Nijinski at 0.999, rating in for review with
IRC right now.

Can somebody please tell me how to access this IRC list?

Jeff Harris

[Max]

your rating is lower than mine - and I have no carbon rig...

:-(

here you can find the list :

http://www.ircrating.org/en/race-organisation/on-line-tcc-listings.html

ciao
max

[Upstart]

Hi Jeff

You may have the same problem I did - if there is a link on the right
hand size of the page that says "View this group in the new Google
Groups" you are using the old version. Click this link and the
attached files will miraculously appear.

It seems there is a huge variance in DLRs on the list.

[jeff harris]

Todd

Details for Nijinski, in the order on your list:

IRL9292   0.999     178   9.14   3.05   1.9   1992   2005   

My spinnaker is only 83.68 but I am very close to Max's rating so I guess my main or headsail must be larger?

[jeff harris]

Hi Tim

Thanks for the info. They did indeed miraculously appear!

I have sent the IRC details for Nijinski to Max to add to the list.

[Max]

Jeff
thanks - but credit for the list goes straight to Todd...
ciao
max

[Todd Aven]

All I did was take the publicly-available IRC list and eliminate the
obviously "not a J/92" rows.

I went back to the IRC list and there is no NIJINSKI or NIJINSKY on
file. It's also possible to search by sail number if you care to share it.

Thanks,
Todd

[Privateer #2]

Privateers has just come in but will change when my new main finally clears customs to late for the start of the season!!!

numbers are as follows.

GBR5152T     0.980   176.8   9.14   3.05    1992   1992

FYI this is with a SPA of 92.5m  and LP of 4.9m approx 136% on a roller.

[jeff harris]

My IRC certificate for 2010 is attached. I'm a new owner and am waiting for the 2011 update. As I haven't changed anything including sails I don't expect it to be different. You are welcome to use this information for your list.

Jeff Harris

Port Klang Malaysia

[Just Enough]

I have been following this forum with interest since buying Just Enough earlier in the year. I believe she is hull 123 built in France over the winter of 1999/2000.  Whilst many of the topics have been useful this one has really struck a chord as it shows the vaguaries of the IRC system.  For 2011 Just enough has an IRC rating of 0.983. This is with a multiple headsail allowance and LP max of 4.8, alongside a SPA of 83.91. Our LLmax is 10.8 giving about 140% No1 headsail area.  For interest I have attached a copy of our rating certificate this year. Maybe this will help us all work out the IRC system more.

Mike

Just Enough
GBR 6912T

[Max]

Aside from rating issues, one thing I noticed is AVS (angle of vanishing stability ?) at 129 deg, i.e. exactly equal to that of 92S. I'd expect the classic 92 to have a somewhat smaller AVS, due to the heavier/deeper bulb of the newer version...OK, my understanding is that IRC doesnt account directly for righting moment (as ORC does) ...but I was a little puzzled anyway... 

max

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<10383 JUST ENOUG 110215_153551.pdf>

[Andy Sharp]

Hi Guys-

 

Sorry to start this topic up again but does anyone know how much headsail size affects ratings.  I am planning on getting an IRC rating next season and I also need to replace my #1.  I currently run a 155% but have seen some of you talk about using a 140 or 145.  I am thinking that a 140 would probably be fine unless the wind was less than 6 or 8 and would probably be great when it got over 15 especially if you didnt have a lot of crew to pile on the rail.  Has anyone been rated one way and then the other to see what kind of change happens?  Any other thoughts about 145 vs 155 regardless of ratings?

 

Andy

Switch #61

[Todd Aven]

I'm planning to get an IRC cert for next year so I can do the Block Island Race and Vineyard Race (full course) doublehanded. 

At the same time, my #1 (145%) needs to be replaced, so i will be considering a trade-off between PHRF and IRC penalties/allowances. 

I will be discussing this with my sailmaker shortly--he has extensive experience with this trade-off. 

I have a "full" 145 and a "flat" 140. Not much difference in area, but a huge difference in performance under 8kts TWS. My feeling is I could reduce area a little bit, but not too much.

I'll let you know how the IRC optimization discussion goes. 

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[Todd Aven]

...and answering one of Andy's questions explicitly:  the PHRF credit of 3 sec/mi going from a 155 to a 145 is well worth it, even in the notoriously light winds of Long Island Sound. 

On Sep 10, 2012, at 12:22 PM, Andy Sharp <acs...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

--

[Andy Sharp]

I am getting weighed and measured for IRC this weekend.  I am hearing that removing the table is a 3 sec penalty.  I have removed mine because its just not pratical for this little cabin.  I do lots of cruising and we would never use it.  Its really got nothing to do with weight or performance.  Do any of you use your tables, and if so, where the heck to you store them?  I think the only place mine will fit is the closet.  (besides one of the ends of the boat.  If I could modify it to fold up small enough to fit under one of the bunks, that would be a winner.

[Todd Aven]

The table and various furnishings (v-berth, galley, table), were options, not standard, for the 92 classic. 

A "3 second penalty" sounds like PHRF, not IRC. I'm not familiar with the IRC equipment rules, but have a vague understanding that it does penalize stripped-out racers. 

On Sep 25, 2012, at 12:05 PM, Andy Sharp <acs...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

I am getting weighed and measured for IRC this weekend.  I am hearing that removing the table is a 3 sec penalty.  I have removed mine because its just not pratical for this little cabin.  I do lots of cruising and we would never use it.  Its really got nothing to do with weight or performance.  Do any of you use your tables, and if so, where the heck to you store them?  I think the only place mine will fit is the closet.  (besides one of the ends of the boat.  If I could modify it to fold up small enough to fit under one of the bunks, that would be a winner.

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[Marco Cohen]

Ciao andy

No reason for the table inside 

Much more sense to put the table outside.

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Il giorno Sep 25, 2012, alle ore 6:05 PM, Andy Sharp <acs...@roadrunner.com> ha scritto:

I am getting weighed and measured for IRC this weekend.  I am hearing that removing the table is a 3 sec penalty.  I have removed mine because its just not pratical for this little cabin.  I do lots of cruising and we would never use it.  Its really got nothing to do with weight or performance.  Do any of you use your tables, and if so, where the heck to you store them?  I think the only place mine will fit is the closet.  (besides one of the ends of the boat.  If I could modify it to fold up small enough to fit under one of the bunks, that would be a winner.

--

[Dick Heijdra]

Hi Andy,

I cut up the table so to a A2 size so that a nav chart fits the table. Complete with the framing slats. Much smaller than the original size so it suits the size of the cabin much better.  No room for a three course dinner though…

Met vriendelijke groet,


Dick Heijdra
ruimtelijk ontwerper

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Op 25 sep 2012, om 18:05 heeft Andy Sharp het volgende geschreven:

I am getting weighed and measured for IRC this weekend.  I am hearing that removing the table is a 3 sec penalty.  I have removed mine because its just not pratical for this little cabin.  I do lots of cruising and we would never use it.  Its really got nothing to do with weight or performance.  Do any of you use your tables, and if so, where the heck to you store them?  I think the only place mine will fit is the closet.  (besides one of the ends of the boat.  If I could modify it to fold up small enough to fit under one of the bunks, that would be a winner.

[Andy Sharp]

From what I understand, it equates to about 3.6 seconds / hr.  I guess it doesnt matter if its original equipment or not.  IRC seems to like cruising features.

 

I like the idea of cutting the table down.  Then I might use it.  I really like using it in the cockpit.  Theres tons of room there.  How do you mount to the cockpit floor?  I was thinking about a bracket that could clamp to the traveler. 

[Marco Cohen]

Ciao andy

I hope this photo is enough clear:

Just fix the same metallic base that comes inside outside .

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Il giorno Sep 26, 2012, alle ore 3:52 PM, Andy Sharp <acs...@roadrunner.com> ha scritto:

From what I understand, it equates to about 3.6 seconds / hr.  I guess it doesnt matter if its original equipment or not.  IRC seems to like cruising features.

 

I like the idea of cutting the table down.  Then I might use it.  I really like using it in the cockpit.  Theres tons of room there.  How do you mount to the cockpit floor?  I was thinking about a bracket that could clamp to the traveler. 

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[David Macfarlane]

No room for a table, must have the small cockpit version.

[Andy Sharp]

I found this on the IRC site.  Now I need to figure out if storing the table is ok. 

 

 

IRC Rules state:

22 EQUIPMENT AND LOADING

22.1.1 The rated parameters assume that the boat is fitted out at least to the production specification and/or to the condition when last measured/inspected. Detachable items (such as but not limited to bunk cushions) permitted by Rule 17 to be aboard for measurement shall be carried in their normal positions while racing. If another rating certificate is being used as the basis for data then any changes since the issue of that certificate shall be notified to the Rating Authority.

22.1.2 For races requiring compliance with Offshore Special Regulations Category 4 only (or local equivalent), a Notice of Race may state that boats rated with bunk cushions on board may remove the bunk cushions. No compensating weight need be carried.

22.2 Hull Factor

22.2.1 Hull factor (HF) is an assessment by the Rating Authority of the features of the boat and their character and efficiency when compared to a basic cruising configuration.

22.2.2 Stripped out interiors, the use of light and hi-tech structures and/or materials, removal of furniture or other fitted equipment, etc. may lead to the application of higher than standard hull factor to compensate for potential increase in performance. Such features shall be declared to the Rating Authority.

PRODUCTION BOATS:

The removal of fitted standard items SHALL BE DECLARED and, in addition to any decrease in weight, may incur an increase to Hull Factor as follows:

- table + 0.1

- any other items + 0.1 each

eg. a production boat from which the table, floorboards and 2 doors were removed could have the hull factor increased by 0.1 (table) + 0.1 (floorboards) + 0.1 (door 1) + 0.1 (door 2) = total HF increase 0.4.

NON-PRODUCTION BOATS (one-off's etc.)

The same may apply as for Production boats if changes are made to the accommodation and/or interior since the last application or information supplied for rating.

Full details of the items removed and their respective weights shall be advised to the Rating Authority.

 

 

[Andy Sharp]

Hi Guys-

 

I received my IRC cert.  I thought you might like to hear my results.  I decided to go with a 145% max genoa, 93 m kite (still fractional) and standard main.  My cert says that I have removed the table.  The measurer said that if its not installed in the position in which it was desgined to be used for, its deemed "removed".  He seemed to think it docked me .003.  Anyway, I ended up at .989. 

 

Andy

Switch #61

 

[Nick Willems]

Hi guys,

Jolo BEL 1588 is going into her 3th season.

Classic J92

We started with 0.983, which was really hard.
In 2016 we had the boat weighed and measured the sails, => 0.976

Now we measured the sails again and adjusted the black stripes on mast en beam.
We decided to get rid of the big genoa, since the regatta's are merely in spring en autumn, which could be windy enough, but it is still a bit of gambling.

Our small jib: 

HSA: 18,56

HLUmax: 10.87

HLP: 3.4

HHW: 1.7

HTW: 0.85

HUW: 0.44

Kite (our weak point)

SPA: 75,82 m²

But we fail in going low enough with speed (very hard against symmetricals on upwind/downwind courses)

NEW rating: 0.959