Rudder Bushing Update

[Andy O]

Hi all,

I purchased a PTFE-filled Delrin rod from McMaster Carr and contacted
a local machine shop to make me new bushings. I'll visit him next
week to build a prototype pair. I'll document the replacement process
with photos and procedures. Then I'll put out a note to the group to
anyone interested in purchasing a pair to replace your current sloppy
set, much the same way we handled the Mixing Elbow deal. I'm having
at least 3 pair made up so I'll have spares for the future.

I'll follow up with a note next week with pricing and other details.

Andy Oeftering
Shooting Star - Hull #35

[Pincus]

Hey Andy - Did you get your bushings out? I'm interested in a set if
my source doesn't come through.
Have an idea of price?

[Andy Oeftering]

Working on the extraction tomorrow. I'd really like to get at least one out intact.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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[zutalors]

I am in need of about 1 inch of bearing material - could I get some
left over piece?

Zut Alors
50636#
David LeGrand

[Andrew Oeftering]

Not sure I'll have any to spare. This project is on hold till the snow
begins to melt. Storms on the East Coast have been pretty nasty lately

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

-----Original Message-----
From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of zutalors
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:11 AM
To: J/92 Owners
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

--

[Andrew Oeftering]

Aaron,

 

I sent the update below to the group.  I’m very puzzled by the part below that talks about the seating material.  They must have had a bearing with an OD that didn’t match the rudder tube wall.   My instinct it to remove all the seating material, including the stop ring, and use the rudder tube wall as the bearings OD.  My bearings are two inches tall.  I’m thinking of going with 3 to spread the load.  Yes.  The McMaster Carr stock is 3 inches in diameter, which is ever so slightly larger than the tube diameter.  .12 might be it.   I think there’s a lot of interest in our project.  I’m going to CC the group from now on.  Let me know what your exact tube diameter turns out to be.

 

 

I'm focused on replacing at least the bottom bearing.  Removing it required that I slice it with a hacksaw on opposite sides so that I could extract the two hemispheres.  The bearing was held in with an adhesive. I used a drill mounted wire wheel brush to remove the adhesive from inside the rudder tube.

It also appears that the bearing was seated within the tube with West System filler material, which the wire brush pulled off as well.  A stop ring within the tube, designed to prevent the bushing from sliding up, was made of this material as well.  Originally, I thought it to be metal and was surprised to see it mostly vanish after using the wire wheel brush.  Still wrestling with exactly how to proceed with replacement.

 

 

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

From: Aaron [mailto:pin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 10:21 PM
To: aoeft...@comptroub.com
Subject: Re: Rudder Bushing Update

 

Hey Andy -

Did you turn down your delrin stock to get it to fit?  My bushing measures about 2.88 (hard to tell since it was cut but the micrometer will tell me what it should measure) and I think the mcmaster stock was a 3.0" 

Cutting the bushing out took about 3-5 min with the sawzall. I used a bimetal blade. Just go slow so you don't cut the rudder post...

Send some pictures of your setup and bushings from this weekend please.  Always curious to see the other boats and their setups

 

Aaron

 

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Andy Oeftering <aoeft...@comptroub.com> wrote:

Well it's 'bushing extraction weekend' for me. I'm assuming that my cyclinder of Delrin AF will fit perfectly with it's current OD. I'll let you know. This little operation shouldn't be as complicated as it's becoming.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

---

From: Aaron <pin...@gmail.com>

Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 17:40:33 -0500

To: Andrew Oeftering<aoeft...@comptroub.com>

Subject: Re: Rudder Bushing Update

 

Hey Andy -

I went down the the shop today and found enough delrin AF laying around to make my bushings.  Since I had to cut the old ones out, I don't have good measurements to work off.  This weekend I hope to get to the boat to put this micrometer into the rudder post sleeve so I can get an overall ID of what the bushing should be. It goes in and the little fingers come out to measure the bore (really neat!)  I couldn't get a set of verniers in there to get a measurement I was happy with.  What I can't figure out is if they built the boat using english or metric units - they don't seem to be round numbers on either scale....

 

I suspect your measurements might be close or the same in size and if you want I can send you my measurements. 

 

Aaron

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Andrew Oeftering <aoeft...@comptroub.com> wrote:

This is what I purchased as raw material to fashion the bushings at a machine shop.  

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8579k52/=b5rkqo

 

I’m trying to get at least one of the bushings out intact.  Otherwise I’ll need to rely on some tight measurements.  The OD of the rod detailed above is what you need.  It’s a solid rod that can be machined to any ID dimension.

 

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

---

From: Aaron [mailto:pin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:08 PM
To: Andrew Oeftering

Subject: Re: Rudder Bushing Update

 

Hi Andy -

Can you tell me what ID and OD you measured your bearings? I wrote them down in the fall, and now that I'm ready to order material, I can't find it... And I'm hoping you'll save me a trip to the boat yard...

Once it warms up, I'll try again to get them out.  Otherwise they're getting cut out and I'll let you know

 

Aaron

 

 

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Aaron <pin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sounds good! 

What's the design BTW?

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Andrew Oeftering <aoeft...@comptroub.com> wrote:

My original "puller tool" design didn't work.  Back to the drawing board.
But I think the next version will work just fine.

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001


-----Original Message-----

From: Pincus [mailto:pin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 11:20 AM
To: Andy Oeftering
Subject: Re: Rudder Bushing Update

Hey Andy - Any luck getting the bushings out?
I've been too distracted and cold to get to the boat to look at them
Aaron

athttp://groups.google.com/group/j92owners?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

 

 

 

 

[Colin Mann]

Just a quick note to confirm that we too (Poohsticks #8) are very interested in this and will be taking on the same project.  I can confirm that the description of what I see in the tube is the same.  We have just been in the habit of putting the lower bearing in and putting a dab of 4600 or similar to hold it.  By season's end though, it has often dropped onto the top of the rudder with a small amount of slop resulting.  Our lower bearing has always been able to rotate freely in the tube as well, so has been no problem to remove.  Anyway, keep the postings coming as you are correct that there is a lot of interest!

 

Colin

[Aaron]

Andy - 

Can you attach some picture of what you're seeing on your boat?  

Here's what I've done and what I'm seeing on my boat. From what I know about my boat, it seems to have very low use and I suspect these are the factory bushings/setup.

My rudder bushings are really two parts - the bushing and then a collar/sleeve.  The collar/sleeve is bonded to the fiberglass rudder tube and has a lip on one side to prevent the bushing from sliding into the center.  There are also mating ridges in the sleeve and bushing to prevent the bushing from spinning inside the sleeve.  Both these features can be seen in the picture

When cutting mine out, I only cut the bushing out leaving the sleeve intact (you can see the saw cuts in the picture).  The ID of the collar/sleeve measures 2.9137". Andy, did you cut all the way to the fiberglass? I didn't measure the ID of the rudder tube, but I suspect now that it's around 3" and that's why you can slip your piece of 3" stock in.  

So my plan is to turn down some 3" stock to just under 2.917" and bore out a 2.505" ID in the bushing for the rudder tube to slid through.  Then on the OD, cut the features to allow it to slip back into the collar/sleeve and maybe secure it with a drop of 4200.  

Colin/Andy/Todd/others, is this what you see on your boat?  

Aaron

[Andrew Oeftering]

Wow..it almost sounds like every boat has a different method for installing and securing these bushings.  Some spin. Some don’t.  Some are glued, Some have collar/sleeves.  Just to be clear. My 3 inch diameter Delrin stock does NOT fit into the rudder tube, so it will need to be trimmed via lathe. No cut into the fiberglass.  My tube is metal btw.  I’ll try to get some pictures before I proceed to the next step.  I’d love to get my hands on that micrometer of yours.

 

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 12:25 PM
To: j92o...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [j92owners] RE: Rudder Bushing Update

 

Andy - 

--

[Andy O]

I'm changing course here a little. On the advice of my local boatyard
fiberglas repair pro, I won't use the PFTE (teflon) filled Delrin
afterall. My man, Joelle, says that telfon won't bond to any adhesive
even West Systems epoxy. He actually offered to buy my 3 x 12 inch
rod because he's always got a use for it. I"ll buy a regular Delrin
rod instead. Meanwhile I've cleaned all the gunky (adhesive and epoxy
out of base of the rudder shaft and have discovered my rod fits
nicely, though very snugly, into place. I was hoping to come up with
a way to create the bushings for the group, but because of the
variations in installation and I.D./O.D, every bushing job is custom.
For now I'm keeping the old top bushing in place to act as a guide for
the installation of the bottom bearing. Then we'll do another customer
job on the top.

On Mar 7, 1:48 pm, Andrew Oeftering <aoefter...@comptroub.com> wrote:
> Wow..it almost sounds like every boat has a different method for installing
> and securing these bushings.  Some spin. Some don't.  Some are glued, Some
> have collar/sleeves.  Just to be clear. My 3 inch diameter Delrin stock does
> NOT fit into the rudder tube, so it will need to be trimmed via lathe. No
> cut into the fiberglass.  My tube is metal btw.  I'll try to get some
> pictures before I proceed to the next step.  I'd love to get my hands on
> that micrometer of yours.
>
> Andy Oeftering
> Computer Troubleshooters
>
> Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
> 732-212-1001
>
>   _____  
>

[Andy O]

Here's information on adhesives for Delrin in it's various forms. The
product and process for bonding varies depending upon the specific
type of Delrin in use. Telflon (PFTE) Delrin requires special
chemical surface etching and these products are expensive. I'll use
regular delrin and bond with the recommended adhesive.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#delrin-bonding-adhesives/=bekyol

[Pincus]

Andy -
Just my 2cents, but I don't think your new course of action is the
correct one. I'm sure regular delrin will be OK but I'm not sure why
you'd want to bond anything to the delrin or delrin AF. I'd think the
bushing is either going to be a tight interference fit or be held in
by some mechanical means. I'm certain my bushings aren't set with
epoxy and fairly sure you're weren't either - a wire bush wouldn't
brush away fully cured epoxy. I'm guessing it's some kind of
polyurethane - maybe Sikaflex 291? If you epoxy them in they're going
to be a nighmare to change the next time. Or maybe you're thinking
that will be the next owner's problem? ;)

Any pictures to share of your bushing or tube?

I hope to get my three bushings (one spare) done in the next week or
so. Will keep you posted.

Aaron

> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/j92owners?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[Privateer #2]

Andy,

I am with Aaron on this one We did privateers a couple of years ago
and they were just made tight enough to be gently encouraged in with a
rubber mallet we just tweaked the fit with some sand paper and we have
had no issues since,
Add some 291 or 295 top and bottom if you think it needs it



Matt

[Andrew Oeftering]

You're right. We don't want to permanently bond the bushings. However, I
do need to keep them from moving freely within the rudder shaft.
Which is where the sikaflex comes in. If you think that will do the trick,
I'll go that route.

On the rudder post, there is, of course wear, where the existing bearings
wore down the rudder post. In order to get a perfect fit, would we not need
to machine turn or sand down the rudder post to ensure a tight fit. If you
take the OD of the rudder post from the position of the lower bushings, for
example, to get the ID of the bushings, you'll get a smaller OD than the OD
of the shaft in general, making installation a problem since the fatter part
of the post might not fit into the narrower ID of the bushings measured from
the wear point.

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

-----Original Message-----
From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On

Behalf Of Privateer #2
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:10 AM
To: J/92 Owners
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

Andy,

Matt

--

[Aaron]

Andy - Quick update on the bushings for Storm Front.  

Three delrin AF rudder bushings are made up.  Should be the correct size to slip into the rudder post.  Once I'm at the boat, I'll cut the grooves in so they don't spin.  

The regular delrin spacer goes below the bottom bushing and keeps the rudder from hitting the hull.  My boat was missing that part (don't know why something like that is missing) and has some good grooves on the hull.  So while I was on the lathe, figured it was a good time to make it.

Next step is to look at installing them. 

[Andrew Oeftering]

Aaron,

 

3 bushings?  Is one a spare?  By cutting the grooves are you simply creating space for the adhesive to fill in so there’s greater hold?  Or are there keyed offsets in the rudder shaft?  One final question:  You evidently have the equipment to make these beasts, right?   I’m looking for someone who has this equipment.  Also.  Did you find wear on the rudder post?  If so, did you cut these so they’d fit over the fattest unworn part of the post?   Or are they cut to fit over the worn area with a VERY tight squeeze past the fat part.  By fat, I mean about .01 inch or less.

 

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:39 AM
To: j92o...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

 

Andy - Quick update on the bushings for Storm Front.  

--

[Pincus]

Hi Andy -
I made up three bushings as either a spare or in case one gets messed
up during install. I also had the right amount of material left over
so I figured why not...
Check out my earlier picture and you'll see the grooves in the old
bushings as well as the bedding material. I didn't remove the bedding
material and I'm hoping to cut mating grooves into the new bushing and
slide them back in. (I'll file down the one groove running around the
circumference) If that doesn't work, I'll have to remove it all and
then deal with aligning the two bushings before setting them. I'm
guessing the factory had some tool that did this.
I don't have the piece of paper with my rudder measurements on it, but
it did have some wear on the CF where it was in contact with the
bushings. I didn't see anything major and a repair could start a whole
different project that I don't want to get into. If I recall, the
center section of the tube measured almost 2.500" and the bottom is
where I saw the most wear measured around 2.49 or something. I didn't
think it was that terrible I made up the bushings to 2.505" to still
slip over the middle section but not give any unneeded play.
I'm hoping to get to the boat this weekend to do a test fit. We'll see
how it all works.


On Mar 17, 10:06 am, Andrew Oeftering <aoefter...@comptroub.com>
wrote:

> Aaron,
>
> 3 bushings?  Is one a spare?  By cutting the grooves are you simply creating
> space for the adhesive to fill in so there's greater hold?  Or are there
> keyed offsets in the rudder shaft?  One final question:  You evidently have
> the equipment to make these beasts, right?   I'm looking for someone who has
> this equipment.  Also.  Did you find wear on the rudder post?  If so, did
> you cut these so they'd fit over the fattest unworn part of the post?   Or
> are they cut to fit over the worn area with a VERY tight squeeze past the
> fat part.  By fat, I mean about .01 inch or less.
>
> Andy Oeftering
> Computer Troubleshooters
>
> Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
> 732-212-1001
>
>   _____  
>

[Off Watch]

It looks I need to replace both of my Harkin bearings. I had hoped to
salvage one but salt and wear have worn through the anodized coating
on the bearing race and the aluminum is pitted pretty bad. I am
guessing that most of the J92 did not have Harkin bearings as the
photos do not look anything like what I have. I also did not have a
spacer between the bottom bearing and the top of the rudder. That
looks like a good idea, what was the height of the spacer?


PYI has the bearings, the top is 067T25US, the bottom 067T25LS. My
diminsions are shaft 2.5" dia., bearing dia. 4.5", bearing heigth
2.75". So far I have not found anyone else that has replacement
bearings.

>  2011-03-16 16.18.56.jpg
> 2002KViewDownload

[Marco Cohen]

does anyone has a mainsail to sell....
i need one for weekend sailing..

marco
Il giorno 21/mar/11, alle ore 06:55, Off Watch ha scritto:

[Andrew Oeftering]

I attended a seminar this weekend that was sponsored by Custom Offshore, a
speed shop here in New Jersey. I explained my rudder bushing dilemma and
they seemed appalled to learn that my setup with a Delrin bushing was
designed with the bearing surface being the carbon fiber rudder post itself.
They suggested I contact www.tidesmarine.com to see if they could make a
thin tube 316 stainless collar that would fit over the rudder posts. (those
of you with worn harken bearings might check out this site for a solution to
your problems) I would then permanently bond the collar to the post with
epoxy. The delrin bushings would then have a bearing surface of 316
stainless rather than carbon fiber. My challenge is getting the right fit.
It can't be close, it's gotta be pretty much perfect to prevent the rudder
movement I'm trying to eliminate. I have the additional challenge of a
mooring situation that is exposed to the elements where I might have 3 days
of hard blow wrenching the boat back and forth on the mooring, placing
nearly continuous wear on the rudder post assembly. I'll investigate and
report back.

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

-----Original Message-----
From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Off Watch
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 1:56 AM
To: J/92 Owners
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

--

[Pincus]

Hey Andy -
Intersting idea with the SS tube. My CF rudder post isn't really
showing enough wear that I'm worried about the wear. 18 years of wear
isn't looking that bad and if it goes another 18 I'll be happy!

But if you sleave it, you have to look at what the overall OD end up
being. The CF is 2.5" now, and if you put a 1/16" tube over it
(that's pretty thin) the OD would be 2.625". If the opening in the
boat is under 3", that leaves you 3/16" max tickness for the bushings
(assuming you set the bushing in the Fglass tube directly and leave no
room for caulk. There wasn't a lot of meat there to begin with and
it's getting a little thin all over....

If your tube is that worn out, another thought would be to cut it open
and replace the CF with a piece of 316. Not exactly easy (or light),
but if your tube is worn that much it might be just a little more
work....

Aaron

On Mar 21, 5:24 am, Andrew Oeftering <aoefter...@comptroub.com> wrote:
> I attended a seminar this weekend that was sponsored by Custom Offshore, a
> speed shop here in New Jersey.  I explained my rudder bushing dilemma and
> they seemed appalled to learn that my setup with a Delrin bushing was
> designed with the bearing surface being the carbon fiber rudder post itself.

> They suggested I contactwww.tidesmarine.comto see if they could make a

[Andrew Oeftering]

Aaron,

The difference between the worn area and the general CF post diameter is .12
mm., which doesn't sound like much. But when I can feel and see the
movement in the caliper micrometer at the worn spots when I open it to the
general CF post diameter of 63.6 mm, I know there's going to be unwanted
movement in the rudder if I don't address the post wear. Your inches numbers
below are absolutely correct. I can live with a thinner bushing if I make it
from Delrin PTFE/AF. Trouble is finding a stainless steel tube at 2.625
inches 1/16th inch wall is proving very difficult. Lots of 2.5-3" stock out
there. I spoke with TWMetals. Evidently I can only purchase a 20 foot tube
at $671.00. Ouch!!!! The distributor is here in New Jersey and I know where
they are located. For $671 I'll invest in a black ninja outfit and break
into the place at midnight to get a fairer price. Anybody else interested
in sharing the price. We only each need a 6 inch length at most, which
translates to about $17 a piece among 40 boats. Or I'll buy it, hack off
what I need, and sell the rest on EBay and hope for the best. Lots of other
tubing for sale there so there must be a market for it.

BTW. Have you installed your new bushings yet?

[Off Watch]

Just got my bearing from PYI today, but now I have a new problem. The
Harkin bearing prevented the shaft from moving up or down once you
would tighten the set screws on the upper sleave to lock it on to the
rudder shaft. The new bearings have nothing that prevents the rudder
shaft from moving up or down. What can I do to prevent the rudder from
moving up and down?

> > 2002KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -

[Ragtime!]

I'm not in the middle of this like you guys, but I'm not sure that's a
problem. My rudder can be moved up and down, but at most 1/4." The
ring at the bottom keeps it from hitting the hull when lifted, and the
collars and bolts under the tiller keep it from falling out. It seems
to be fine without any other set screws on the shaft.


Now I have a question, or maybe more of an opinion poll:

I would like to put a proper autopilot drive unit belowdecks. Would
you be willing to cut into your rudder tube to do that?

[Andrew Oeftering]

Bob,

Movement up and down is not a problem. It's fore and aft and left and right.
And I can feel it when I'm driving. Especially downwind when pressure on
the rudder is fairly neutral. I've got to admit I'm obsessing over this,
but if I get it right, I won't need to deal with it again (at least not
soon) As for an autopilot, I bought an above deck tiller-mounted ST4000 last
year but have yet to install it. That's part of this year's plan. But I
can already see the limitations of a system that I must attach/detach in
order to go from auto to manual. Things like how do I conveniently stow it
so that it doesn't slide overboard when I detach it come to mind. A rudder
shaft -mounted arrangement makes a lot of sense for the kind of
single-handed iron man sailing you do. It's a lot of gear though for the
w/l crowd.

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

-----Original Message-----
From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ragtime!
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:18 AM
To: J/92 Owners
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

--

[Off Watch]

Is the rudder positive or negative buoyancy? I don't have a ring or
spacer at the bottom of the rudder shaft to keep it from hitting the
hull, where would be a supplier to find some Delrin tubing or material
that I could have one machined?

We will also have to decide about the autopilot above or below decks,
at this point I would not feel comfortable cutting into the rudder
tube.

[Andrew Oeftering]

Check http://www.mcmaster.com/#delrin/=bk15nu

A couple of weeks ago Aaron posted some photos showing a lower spacer ring
he made from Delrin. The nice thing about the spacer ring is it does not
need to be an exact fit.

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

-----Original Message-----
From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Off Watch
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:43 AM
To: J/92 Owners
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

--

[Ragtime!]

You're right - I don't notice any horizontal movement when steering so
that's an achievable goal. I only know about the vertical movement
because the boat lives on a trailer and I can bear-hug the rudder and
move it up and down a little bit.

This is a repeat but it's my only experience: The steering was a
little wobbly and I was getting ready for the solo Hawaii race, so I
asked the yard to replace the bearings in early 2006. They had a
lower bearing turned at a local brake shop for less than $100 (I think
it was delrin or something) so it would fit tight. They said the
upper bearing was fine and apparently it was - I've had no problems.
That project overall was one of the cheaper jobs I've had done, on
this boat...

My J/33 was another story. It had the old Harken (?) roller
bearings. The lower one was frozen to the shaft and was turning,
fairly smoothly, within the rudder tube. As gunk accumulated in the
tube the steering was getting stiff. In those days I could afford the
top local race-boat yard and they made it all right, but the total tab
that year was $6,500! The following year we discovered the rudder was
filling with water. Once that was fixed I sold the 33...

Regarding the autopilots, I've had the 4000+ drive units for a long
time, and recently replaced the 6001 head and S1G computer with the
X-5. Those cockpit-mounted drive units are the weak spot. I keep
them covered when in use but they still find ways to fail. I keep
three of them. (In our shorthander's club we keep drawers of tiller
pilots/drive units like some owners keep drawers of flashlights.)

I've heard the old standard Raymarine Type 1 linear drive is very
reliable but it requires belowdecks installation. I've sketched a
zillion ideas using Morse cable, etc. but the only solid way to do it
is attaching an arm to the rudder shaft. I just don't want to do that.

[Andrew Oeftering]

There is a distinct possibility that I may be overthinking and
overengineering this problem. But I'd like to feel that I'm done with this
when the job is complete... for a while anyway. How are you covering the
autopilot while in use? Do you stow it in the cockpit so it's handy? If
so, how?

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

-----Original Message-----
From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ragtime!
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:04 PM
To: J/92 Owners
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

--

[Todd Aven]

The factory rudder assembly is designed to prevent vertical motion in the shaft. The top delrin washer transfers the downward load from the rudder head to the top bushing, which is prevented from moving down by a lip in the rudder tube. The bottom delrin sleeve is sandwiched between the top of the rudder and the bottom of lower bushing, which is kept down by another lip in the tube.

The thickness of the top washer and the length of the bottom sleeve should be marginally greater in total (1-2mm?) than the exposed shaft, so that tightening the rudder head on the shaft produces slight compression of the spacers.

[Pincus]

Stepped away for a few days and I see it was a busy thread!

Andy, personally I wouldn't be concerned about 0.12mm or 0.005"
That's about what my rudder has also between the bushing contact areas
and the unworn part. If you're intent on sleaving it, get a piece of
whatever size OD 2.5" ID stock and have it turned down. I think you'll
have a harder time finding thin wall tube and then you can then make
it whatever size you want. Personally, I think you've over thinking it
for 5 thousands of an inch....
I had to take another pass as my bushings as they were still a little
tight around some parts of the carbon tube - it just isn't as round as
a metal tube. So I'll have more like 0.006" clearance around my
bushings.

Off Watch - I suspect the rudder is negative buoyancy at rest, but at
speed the foil will lift and push into the hull. I too was missing
the delrin bushing and just made it up (picture earlier in the
thead). My hull has many marks for where the rudder was rubbing so I
wanted to fabricate this while I had it all apart. My bushing was 1"
long, 2.55"ID and 2.8" OD Honestly nothing really that exact other
then being 1" long (which I still have to verify is the correct size
for my boat)

Aaron

On Mar 23, 1:36 pm, Todd Aven <t...@avenshaven.net> wrote:
> The factory rudder assembly is designed to prevent vertical motion in the shaft. The top delrin washer transfers the downward load from the rudder head to the top bushing, which is prevented from moving down by a lip in the rudder tube. The bottom delrin sleeve is sandwiched between the top of the rudder and the bottom of lower bushing, which is kept down by another lip in the tube.
>
> The thickness of the top washer and the length of the bottom sleeve should be marginally greater in total (1-2mm?) than the exposed shaft, so that tightening the rudder head on the shaft produces slight compression of the spacers.
>

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/j92owners?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[Andrew]

Good Morning All,

We had the same wear on our J92 'Jammin' which has an aluminium rubber
stock.
I coated the wear area with aluminium primer and then epoxy adhesive
and flocked it with nylon flock.
This took up all the play and lasted for 2 years, racing most
weekends. When we took the rudder out this time
there was a small amount of play that I again took up with a coat of
epoxy.
Those of you with carbon rudder stocks, the layup would have been with
epoxy and since you are talking about fairly
small wear thickness's 0.005" to 0.010", why not give it a coat of
epoxy resin, job done !

Andrew
'Jammin'

> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/j92owners?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -

[david....@comcast.net]

Your idea about negative buoyancy is a good one.  Out in the yard, my boat rudder is very movable, but under sail it gets sticky.  I too left of the delrin spacer and I think my rudder is lifting into the hull. I'll replace it this year and put the spacer that's on the top back on the bottom.

 

For those of you that need another tiller, I had one fabricated at IDASAILOR.com.  Spot on delivery of a great retrofit. They completely rebuilt my tiller and fabricated a stainless steel attachment.  It's beautiful.

Zut Alors

50636

 

For those sailors in Long Island Sound - the ECSA calendar is out.  Do you guys want to pick a race and get all thje boats out? 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pincus" <pin...@gmail.com>
To: "J/92 Owners" <j92o...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:46:54 AM
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/j92owners?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

[Todd Aven]

David,

I think it's a great idea to get the Long Island Sound boats out for an event. I'd like to suggest the YRALIS Championships August 6-7 in Greenwich as a "middle ground". Does that look feasible for anybody?

I'm planning to enter Thin Man in the following races:

May 14    Edlu Race - double-handed
May 21    NYAC Stratford Shoal Race - double-handed
July 9       City Island Distance Race
July 16     Lloyd Harbor Stratford Shoal Race
July 28-?  Around Long Island Race
Aug 6-7    YRALIS Championship Regatta
Aug 13    CIYC Women Skipper's Race
Aug 14    CIYC Day Race
Sep 2-?    Vineyard Race
Sep 10     Captain Island Race
Oct 15-16 Manhasset Bay Fall Series
Oct 22-23 Manhasset Bay Fall Series

Let's hear from the NY/NJ/CT crowd.

Thanks,
Todd

[Andrew Oeftering]

Ok.. sounds good to me. So you're suggesting I simply carefully brush on a
little West Systems epoxy to coat the worn area? Can't be much simpler than
that.

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

-----Original Message-----
From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Andrew
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:08 AM
To: J/92 Owners
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

[Andrew Oeftering]

My lower spacer bushing looks stock to me. I can provide measurements this
weekend.

Andy Oeftering
Computer Troubleshooters

Red Bank - Eatontown - Tinton Falls, NJ
732-212-1001

-----Original Message-----
From: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Pincus
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:47 AM
To: J/92 Owners
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Rudder Bushing Update

[Todd Aven]

My lower spacer is 25.5mm long with a 5mm wall thickness.