Panel vs 3Di

[Patrick M]

Debating about 3Di or paneled jib for next year on my 92S. 

Anyone with experience with 3Di especially in light air? Is it worth the premium?

Thanks

Patrick #37

[Todd Aven]

You might want to consider non-North/non-paneled sails, too. I have had very good results against 3di-equipped boats with UK Sailmakers “string” sails (X-Drive and Titanium). 

On Sep 6, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Patrick M <d73p6...@gmail.com> wrote:

Debating about 3Di or paneled jib for next year on my 92S. 

Anyone with experience with 3Di especially in light air? Is it worth the premium?

Thanks

Patrick #37

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[Rob Ferguson J/92 Flying Fish]

I bought a 3di from North 5 years ago...I hate it.  The leech was terrible right from the start and the material did not hold up well.  I had to patch about 10 holes where the sail cloth just disintegrated. Definitely not worth the extra cost. I was highly disappointed with the sail and the service given by North Sails from the Detroit loft. 

[Sting]

Putting in a plug for Evolution, as they know the J92s well and have a good set of jib designs.   I have a J1, J2 and J3 from them - I'm on my fourth season with the first two and they are holding up very well.    They are Element Membrane material if you want to look up the construction technique on the Evolution website.   Glad to make an intro if needed.

[M Austin]

Thanks!  That's good to know!  Which loft location do you work with?  I've contacted my local Evolution loft and so far, crickets...If you have a contact, that would be great!

MDA

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j92owners/246ffa21-b682-4d29-90b1-5a49792ac2abn%40googlegroups.com

.

[Mark Camilleri]

Hi Patrick

I bought a One Sails single panel sail. It is still in perfect condition after 2 seasons. And it made a big difference in performance especially pointing

Regards 

Mark Camilleri

99404089

On 12 Sep 2024, at 04:37, Sting <mark.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

Putting in a plug for Evolution, as they know the J92s well and have a good set of jib designs.   I have a J1, J2 and J3 from them - I'm on my fourth season with the first two and they are holding up very well.    They are Element Membrane material if you want to look up the construction technique on the Evolution website.   Glad to make an intro if needed.

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[Sting]

I work with Evolution Sail Chesapeake - reach out to Jerry Latell  je...@evolutionsails.com

They are a real full service loft as well 

[Michael Austin]

I know him.  He's done some training events for our sailing club (BBSA).  Hopefully I'll hear something soon.

Thanks!

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[Libby Tomlinson]

I’m a customer with Quantum Sails, and would encourage you to check them out as well.  I have a J92 (not S) and have a full suit of Fusion M 5:  Main, 1, 2, 3, and an A2 kite.  Holding up very well and after our 6th(!) season on them, we are ready for a new main and will use the current one for deliveries.  We always roll our sails rather than flaking, I think that helps too. 

Get in touch with Joe Cooper at Quantum.  

Joe Cooper

O: 401 849 7700

M: 401 965 6006

jco...@quantumsails.com

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[Michael Austin]

The more I look into whether a Code 0 is the best option, the more confused I get.  I heard from Jerry at Evolution yesterday, who provided some noteworthy advice.  Question: is a Code 0 the best light air sail for the "s"?

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[d73p6...@gmail.com]

I got my hands on a code zero originally from a Farr 30; it’s not a perfect fit but works; it doesn’t get used much but when does it is effective (not on a furler and a bit of a handful to pack/handle)

Patrick

On Sep 13, 2024, at 07:58, Michael Austin <klyp...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Joe Cooper]

Libby,

Thanks for the kind words.

All. I am in the NEwport RI loft. There is a fellow on this group with an S on Narragansett Bay also.

HE will have an opinion on his Quantum sails too.

Thanks

Coop

On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 12:48 PM Libby Tomlinson <wordtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Joe Cooper

Bushra...@gmail.com

C: 401 965 6006

[Sting]

On the Code Zero, I have an older one, that is the standard cabled kind with a drum.    

In my opinion, on a boat this size, it is not a very useful sail for most of the racing I do.   While it does fill a gap from cracking off the jib to tight reaching in light air (and tight reaching as the wind blows), there are several extra steps to setting it up and getting the cable tightened up hard to furl and unfurl it properly.    This takes time and you need a decently long leg to take full advantage of the change - basically distance racing only but the performance is impressive if you get it right.

That said, I also found I very rarely would need to do a windward tack with it, where I would see another benefit of the furler.   A furler is a bigger need on a larger boat where the sail is so much larger that it can't be manually handled easily, plus you can deploy it on a reach and get it tight before unfurling.

For this year Jerry at Evolution and I worked on a new "A Zero" spinnaker that is a very tight reacher and built of heavier cloth - no furler, but he put velcro along the luff so that it can be rolled up tight to deploy on a reach.     We can tack it in light air, but it requires a manual pull around the forestay, but again this is a rare need.  It was less expensive than a Code Zero and I think about 90% of the full capability, but simpler to manage and swap like a chute.   Probably lost a little bit of maximum windward capability but it was worth the trade-off.

Have only used it a couple of times but have been very happy with how it filled the gap and how the boat performed.   I think it puts less load on the sprit as well, which is a bonus.

[JD Vincent]

Sting do you have a bobstay rigged on your sprit for use with these off wind sails?

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[Michael Austin]

Has J Boats ever provided guidance on the sail inventory for the "s"?

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[George Cushing]

No Bobstay needed. We flew ours at the high end of the wind range without issue. 

On Sep 13, 2024, at 4:49 PM, JD Vincent <davey....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Sting]

Sting has a bobstay but I keep it loose unless I expect we will be reaching in 10+.    The length is fixed by lashing to the end of the pole ring (try for an inch or so short of full extension), then crank on some tension on the pole outhaul with the winch.    The pole outhaul clutch and tackle are all upgraded to take additional load.

I have to say, geometry-wise, it takes lot of tension on the outhaul to effect real tension on the bobstay.    I think it can take a static load without it, but it probably helps with shock loading (like in rougher wave states).  

[EC Helme]

Hey all,

Spirit here, J/92S based in Newport.  Looks like there are a lot of good thoughts going on here which is great.  I’ll echo Coop and Libby on the Quantum offerings.  Three jibs, two mains, five kites, A0, A1.5, A2-VMG, A2-AP and an A3. For us, “total lifecycle support” (visits, an occasional race, continuous program improvement, service) was a big deal and we get that with Quantum.  I offer that their designs are constantly undergoing assessment and “trickle down” from higher level race programs.  We’ve also had access to the designer to talk through goals or simply get a precise repeat of a shape that worked well for us.  Coop is a great entry point into all of that and knows the 92 and 92S really well.

 I do have a bobstay and for anyone interested I can provide how we have that sorted.  It does allow us to load the luff of the zero (or the A3 in some cases) without a lot of pumping/flexing.  For the 92S the zero is a game changer for the type of racing we generally do in this region — that’s really what you need to consider.  I agree with others that if your racing is around drop marks or shorter legs perhaps it matters less.  But for the 92S with essentially one headsail size we have a gap from maybe 40-80AWA and having a sail that can fill that is really important. To avoid the hassles described by Mark below we hoist and douse like any other spinnaker. Occasionally, there might be a small time impact but compared to one snafu with a furler I think we are about even.

I have some rig and forestay length settings that work well for us and happy to share.  I’ve never seen anything “official” from J/Boats per se, but I think Jeff J wrote an article about racing one of the first 92S at Key West Race Week (back in the day!), which has some useful insights.

Can we get a 92/92S world championship going somewhere?  : )

Regards to all,

EC

EC Helme

401.688.5618

On Sep 13, 2024, at 5:49 PM, JD Vincent <davey....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Michael Austin]

All,

Thanks for your extensive input on the question of a Code 0.  I have been requesting quotes from a range of sailmakers and the price range is between around $3,000 to over $8,000...in addition, some are recommending a sail other than a "full-size 0" given that I am anticipating doing round the buoy racing, at least at first.  Question: has anyone dealt with Precision Sails or Rolly Tasker?

Thanks!

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[Mark Camilleri]

For Round the bouy racing i dont think that you will use the code zero because usually it is upwind and downwind mark no? We use Code 0 at around 60 degrees TWA

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From: j92o...@googlegroups.com <j92o...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Michael Austin <klyp...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2024 5:30:36 PM
To: j92o...@googlegroups.com <j92o...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [j92owners] Panel vs 3Di

 

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