Jib leads

[Todd Aven]

The jib tracks on my boat were improperly installed (by a previous
owner), resulting in wet core and ultimately one track pulled up
enough to put a sharp bend in it.

I had the yard cut out the wet core and refill the area with solid
glass/epoxy. Now I have a clean slate to work with.

I'm considering a floating jib lead with control lines to provide two
degrees of freedom (athwartships in addition to fore-n-aft).

Anyone have experience with such a setup on a 92 or any other keelboat?

I want to be able to inhaul in moderate conditions and move the lead
outboard in heavy breeze.

What do y'all do?

Thanks,
Todd

[jwhj92s]

I'm thinking two tracks mounted side by side, two cars, both
adjustable fore/aft. Then maybe four sheets attached to the jib, two
on each side. You could then adjust fore/aft and inhaul/outhaul.
Just a quick thought.

John

[Thin Man #14]

I've done this sort of thing on other boats using a snatch block on a
stanchion base or toe rail with a changing sheet to a spare winch. I
don't think I'd rig four sheets routinely (weight, cost, spaghetti
factor...).

[andy...@gmail.com]

When a genoa car jumped the track last summer we jury rigged an arrangement you describe here. The boat sailed great.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Thin Man #14" <to...@avenshaven.net>

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:28:40
To: J/92 Owners<j92o...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Jib leads

[Trenter Ellis]

On the subject of genoa tracks we are about to have ours lengthened. 
 
The Euro built J/92 was originally conceived with a 140% genoa and the next headsail down was a non overlapping 100%ish jib.  Hence we have two short genoa tracks on each side of the boat - one for the 140% and one just aft the shrouds for non overlapping headsails.  We are now about to order a new 125% genoa which seems to optimise the IRC rating for a J/92 in relatively windy Solent conditions but in order to sheet it properly we need the "front" genoa track to be extended aft as the rear track is too far back for a smaller overlapping headsail.
 
As far as I know several UK owners have already had this done.  I am going to get the new tracks installed by a guy with a solid reputation and am going to impress upon him the need to stop water getting into the balsa!
 
Anybody else on the forum had this done?
 
Cheers,
Trenter
J/92 #138
Perfect J
 





> To: j92o...@googlegroups.com

> Subject: [j92owners] Re: Jib leads

> From: andy...@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 03:33:22 +0000

[Cyclone#80]

I did mine a few years ago. I had jib cars with pins and towable
genoa cars on two seperate tracks (4 total). I got 2 10 ft (3m)
pieces of track from Harken. I was lucky in that my jib and genoa
tracks were in almost perfect alingment. Once I had them where I
wanted them I drilled holes though the top skin and core leaving the
bottom skin intact. I then took an allen wrench and chucked the long
end in a drill motor and then carved out the balsa between the skins.
It helps if you cut the short end of the allen wrench so that it is
half as long as stock. I did not have any moisture (I would have let
it dry out) so I filled the holes back up with slightly thickened
epoxy then I drilled the track mounting holse through the epoxy. On
the holes that I was reusing I stoped the bottom with some clay and
did the fill and drill routine. No stainless touching balsa! I found
the same nuts that J/boats uses at McMaster-Carr.

Couple of things to watch out for, make sure that hole placement is
far enough away from the bulkhead to get a washer and nut on the
bolt. If you are using the towable cars make sure that the tracks are
far enough forward so the car can be in the position that you need it
for the jib as the tow rope takes some space. The towable cars don't
buy you much other than easy of reefing the 155%. With the jib we
tend to set them and forget them.


John

On Feb 12, 6:18 am, Trenter Ellis <trenter_el...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On the subject of genoa tracks we are about to have ours lengthened.  
>
> The Euro built J/92 was originally conceived with a 140% genoa and the next headsail down was a non overlapping 100%ish jib.  Hence we have two short genoa tracks on each side of the boat - one for the 140% and one just aft the shrouds for non overlapping headsails.  We are now about to order a new 125% genoa which seems to optimise the IRC rating for a J/92 in relatively windy Solent conditions but in order to sheet it properly we need the "front" genoa track to be extended aft as the rear track is too far back for a smaller overlapping headsail.
>
> As far as I know several UK owners have already had this done.  I am going to get the new tracks installed by a guy with a solid reputation and am going to impress upon him the need to stop water getting into the balsa!
>
> Anybody else on the forum had this done?
>
> Cheers,
> Trenter
> J/92 #138
> Perfect J
>

> > To: j92o...@googlegroups.com> Subject: [j92owners] Re: Jib leads> From: andyo...@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 03:33:22 +0000> > When a genoa car jumped the track last summer we jury rigged an arrangement you describe here. The boat sailed great. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry> > -----Original Message-----> From: "Thin Man #14" <t...@avenshaven.net>> > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:28:40 > To: J/92 Owners<j92o...@googlegroups.com>> Subject: [j92owners] Re: Jib leads> > > > I've done this sort of thing on other boats using a snatch block on a> stanchion base or toe rail with a changing sheet to a spare winch. I> don't think I'd rig four sheets routinely (weight, cost, spaghetti> factor...).> > On Feb 11, 6:03 pm, jwhj92s <j...@diversifiedfoods.com> wrote:> > I'm thinking two tracks mounted side by side, two cars, both> > adjustable fore/aft.  Then maybe four sheets attached to the jib, two> > on each side.  You could then adjust fore/aft and inhaul/outhaul.> > Just a quick thought.> >> > John> >> > > _________________________________________________________________
>
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[Ragtime!]

For reference, blow up the photo in Files (RagtimeByNorCalSailing):

I have long inboard tracks with towable cars for the #2 (125%LP) and
#3's (100%-105%), short outboard tracks for the #3's when cracked off
(ala J/120) so the sheets don't grind on the shrouds, and inboard
genoa tracks with pinstops for the #1.

Outside leads are the bomb on this boat - it's a reaching machine. If
you look close you'll see folding padeyes near the toerail forward for
the #3. These are supported under the deck with G10 backing plates.
This is heavy-air blast reaching mode. The #4 (80%LP) also sheets to
these padeyes.

The #2 has a low clew - for outside leads it sheets to the base of the
middle stanchions (blocks attached w/Yale Loups). The #1 can be
outside-sheeted the same way to the base of the stanchions by the
primaries. This is also where my jibtop sheets.

I have a pair of secondary sheets with J/Locks. They are quick to
clip in for these alternative leads.

For buoy racing you don't need most of this crap. (I sail cracked off
a lot in the ocean because the boat pounds. I also have zero crew
weight!)

On Turn-Key, a successful J//92 in So. Cal., they installed short
tracks for the #1 about 6" outboard of the regular genoa tracks. In
0-11 TWS with 5 on the rail, they would sheet to the normal inboard
tracks. In 11+ they would shift to the outboard tracks and would see
a dramatic speed increase (working the slot).

I experimented with inhaulers on the 100%LP #3. Once rigged, they
were in direct alignment with the lazy jib sheet so now I just use
that. The boat points much better with the #1 but if you're trying to
point with the #3, inhauling does help.

These last two things are all you probably need to do for inshore buoy
racing.

Bob J.

[Thin Man]

Bob,

For your forward jib track, do you have the Harken mid-size towable
cars or the small boat cars?

Thanks,
Todd

[Ragtime!]

The "Small Boat" towables (#249). Probably near the top end of their
range, but so far so good.

I'm using the stock cams at the bottom, aft corners of the cabin trunk
for the adjustable leads. The port one was for the jib furler line
(now cleated out at the stanchion) and the starboard was for the sprit
control line (now going through the cabin and out the back, like the
newer boats).

Bob J.

> > genoa tracks with pinstops for the #1.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Andy Sharp]

Todd-

 

How far back does your 145% sheet?  I am trying to decide if I need to extend my tracks.

 

Andy S.

[Thin Man #14]

The aft end of the track is roughly half way between the aft end if the cabin top and the forward edge if the primary winch.

[Joe Cooper]

Re tracks, If you are getting a new sail, the sail makers ought to be able to design the three edges AND the LP to fit on the existing tracks. Specifically ask him to measure the boat, especially the aft end of the track from the bow the luff two block, the tack above the deck, if on a roller and the rake This is basic sailmaking/selling/designing 101 (I did i for nearly 20 years...)
Coop

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[Ragtime!]

Todd, sorry if I've asked this before:  does your 145% LP genoa trim inside the top spreader?  If so, did they hollow the leech to achieve that and if they did, do you get much leech curl?

I'm ordering a long foot 140-145 and want to have it designed to trim inside the spreader.  I'm having some doubts based on my drawings.

Thanks!

[Todd Aven]

My 140 and 145 both sheet outside the top spreader.

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[Joe Cooper]

That is very good.There is no way a 140 or larger sized headsail ought to fit inside the top spreaders, not without a LOT of contortion
coop

[Ragtime!]

Coop, the spreaders are swept back a fair bit.  I have a 150 off a J/29F that is maybe a foot short in the luff.  It is within an inch or two of clearing the top spreader so we're looking at a compromise between a bit off the luff and some leech hollow that would minimize the leech hook and allow it to be trimmed inside.  My North rep says he's done this many times before and it does help pointing - they call it a long-foot 145.  I think we'll get there - I put down the deposit today.

As you can see from my other posts, I'm willing to try stuff to find incremental improvements in performance.