Prop shaft strut replacement

[John Madey]

Has anybody had to replace the prop shaft strut from the original no longer available fiberglass piece to a bronze one? Who did you use to cast the bronze replacement?

Long story, tough year on my wallet, I'll blame the crew on this one LOL. Anybody want to buy a boat?

John

[Ragtime!]

John, this is a long shot because it was several years ago:

Before the current owner bought her, "El Pellin" (now named "Healy")
had her shaft strut ripped off by a wayward spinny sheet. Nelson's
Marine in Alameda had a new strut made, I think after contacting J/
Boats (or Pearson Composites) for a mold. Try calling Carl Nelson and
ask if he remembers what they did. Carl's place is mostly a storage
yard now, but they used to be pretty good about getting things made
locally. It's also where my new lower rudder bearing was turned on
the cheap in 2005:

http://www.nelsonsmarine.com

[John Madey]

Ed -> you probably got the last one. Called TPI Composites they refered me to Pearson Composites who said they do not have any of the J/boat tooling and refered me to J/Boats who refered me to two different bronze casters (don't have the names handy). I refered my boat yard to them and find there is tooling charge and a 4 week lead time for a custom build.

I was hoping that someone went through this before me. When I am finished I'll post the vendor maybe someone can benefit from my tooling charge

Bob -> thanks for the tip. I'll follow up with them

J

On Sep 20, 2011, at 12:43 PM, "fair...@consolidated.net" <fair...@consolidated.net> wrote:

> We tore the strut off last year-got caught in a big puff. Jib sheet got wrapped. Called J Boats. They said call TPI Composites. They still have the mold and made a new one in a week. Downside, it is around $500.
>
> Ed Benevent
> fair...@consolidated.net
> 412-889-8191
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

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>

[Ragtime!]

I might be remembering wrong but I think Carl said he was able to
borrow that mold.

[Ragtime!]

Related topic - repacking the stuffing box (1GM10):

I'd like to get all the supplies before I start. Does anyone know
what size packing material was used? Since the nut is so small, I
suspect the packing is at the smaller end (1/4" maybe). Great article
here if you also plan to do this:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box&page=1

[John Madey]

Bob

I replaced mine with a PSS seal a few years ago but I found the old one

The used packing measures about 0.4 wide and 0.75 high since it's used packing they are aprox.

The ID of the nut is 1.5 and we know the shaft is 0.75 OD. All dimensions I listed are inches

Hope that helps

J

[Todd Aven]

The tutorial is spot on. I would add two critical points (painful
experience):

1) Don't over-stuff!
2) Don't over-tighten!

I asked my dentist for a spare dental pick, which worked pretty well. I
broke the points off both ends very quickly, but enough "pick" remained
to be effective. I was also up against a seriously overstuffed,
overtightened stuffing box. :-(

I think the flax I used was 1/4". I cut three identical lengths equal to
the circumference of the shaft. I worked each one into the stuffing box,
making sure that the gap for each length did not line up with the others
when installed. I tightened the stuffing box ***very gently*** with just
the pressure of one finger and thumb. Immediately after launch I checked
and required only a slight tightening. It's been perfect all season.

Cheers,
Todd

[Ragtime!]

Thanks guys - just what I needed.

[Ragtime!]

Continuing to hijack John's thread...

I found out why the boat always has excess water in the bilge. There
was no flax whatsoever in the packing nut - not worn out, mashed down
etc. - just NONE, clean as a whistle.

While I'm doing this (don't worry, the boat's on her trailer), I'd
also like to replace the short piece of hose that acts as a water seal
between the aft end of the packing gland and the tube through the
hull. So a dumb question: How do I get the shaft loose at the engine
end to replace the hose?

I'm seeing about 1/2" of flat/keyway on the shaft, just where it
enters the flywheel-type casting on the back of the transmission. Is
this normal or has the shaft slid out a bit? I only see maybe 1/4" of
possible movement at the strut under the boat and I can't move the
shaft if I try to push it farther into the hull, so it may all be
okay. I have photos of all this if anyone wants to see them.

Any advice/input? I may race next Saturday so I'm hoping to get all
this back together on Friday.

[John Madey]

No packing and you went to Hawaii like that! Wow!

Seeing some keyway is normal. If your prop is within a 1/4-1/2 inch of the strut it probably has not slid back

There should be two set screws safety wired together that engage two flats machined on the shaft. In a perfect world remove the set screws and the shaft will slide backward. A tap on the prop with a rubber mallet will knock it loose. You have to remove the set screws to make sure that they are clear of the flats (more like blind holes)

It's probably all rusted together if that is the case you will have to cut it off and get a new shaft side coupling. When I did the PSS seal mine was rusted. I used a air powered cut off wheel to cut deep as I dared along the keyway and up the flange then hit it with a cold chisel and it split. A dremel tool with the cut off wheel would probably work too.

Check the shaft for grooves you probably won't see them but you will feel them. On mine there were three groves from the packing material. I understand that if the packing nut is over tightened it will wear the shaft. I ended up replacing the shaft.

Another thing to watch for is engine alignment. If your rear engine mounts have sagged the engine will be resting on the shaft and it will be tough to get it back together. On mine the rear mounts were rusted so to do the alignment I had to replace the mounts.

BTW there is no bearing where the shaft enters the boat. Only on the strut.

Don't forget to re-safety wire the set screws.

All that to put the PSS seal in!

When you put the packing in make sure you stagger the cuts. If they are lined up it can leak

John

[Privateer #2]

I had some movement in the p bracket last time we hauled so got the
yard to glass a flange round the base. While they were doing this i
pulled the shaft to check its true as i had uneven wear in the cutless
bearing. (that turned out to be not a bent shaft just alignment) we
had a similar problem with the shaft being rusted into the mounting so
instead of cutting i removed the mounting plate and slid a bolt in
behind and retighted the plate then removed and added a bigger one
until the shaft was compressed out.
This worked well for us and may be worth a try

Matt

On Sep 26, 8:03 am, John Madey <list...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No packing and you went to Hawaii like that! Wow!
>
> Seeing some keyway is normal. If your prop is within a 1/4-1/2 inch of the strut it probably has not slid back
>
> There should be two set screws safety wired together that engage two flats machined on the shaft. In a perfect world remove the set screws and the shaft will slide backward. A tap on the prop with a rubber mallet will knock it loose. You have to remove the set screws to make sure that they are clear of the flats (more like blind holes)
>
> It's probably all rusted together if that is the case you will have to cut it off and get a new shaft side coupling. When I did the PSS seal mine was rusted. I used a air powered cut off wheel to cut deep as I dared along the keyway and up the flange then hit it with a cold chisel and it split. A dremel tool with the cut off wheel would probably work too.
>
> Check the shaft for grooves you probably won't see them but you will feel them. On mine there were three groves from the packing material. I understand that if the packing nut is over tightened it will wear the shaft. I ended up replacing the shaft.
>
> Another thing to watch for is engine alignment. If your rear engine mounts have sagged the engine will be resting on the shaft and it will be tough to get it back together. On mine the rear mounts were rusted so to do the alignment I had to replace the mounts.
>
> BTW there is no bearing where the shaft enters the boat. Only on the strut.
>
> Don't forget to re-safety wire the set screws.
>
> All that to put the PSS seal in!
>
> When you put the packing in make sure you stagger the cuts. If they are lined up it can leak
>
> John
>

[Ragtime!]

You're right, the coupling plate/casting is all rusted but I was able
to loosen the two set screws after soaking them in WD-40. On the next
trip I'll remove them and try to bump the shaft loose. If that
doesn't work easily, I'll put it back together and wait a month. My
final race of the single-handed season is mid-October and I'll have a
two hour delivery at each end. I can't miss it - I'm only 7.5 points
ahead of the second place boat.

Real helpful guys - thanks again.

[Todd Aven]

Bob,

I did this repair at the beginning of 2010
(http://www.thinmansailing.net/news2010.html#20100413).

Getting the shaft out of the coupler was a nightmare, but I accomplished
it without having to cut anything. I bought extra-long bolts for the
coupler so that I could press the shaft out of the coupler using a
socket as a spacer between the crank shaft and the prop shaft. Literally
hours of tightening one bolt after another until it came out.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Todd

[Todd Aven]

Be careful with "bumping" the shaft loose. The transmission casing could
crack. You really should press it out.

[Ragtime!]

Okay, I'll install the packing and reassemble everything, then replace
the hose after the races. It appears to be in better shape than yours
was:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/BobsailsSF/RagtimeShaft.jpg

That pbase article was right on. I tried the GTU from WM and it
frayed badly and was hard to install, just as the article said. Also,
it turns out 1/4" is too big. Hamilton Marine (mentioned in the
article) is the only place I could find the better Duramax Ultra-X
packing sold by the foot. I ordered both 1/8" and 3/16" but I think
the 1/8" is all that will fit.

[Aaron]

Bob,
If the shaft doesn't come out, the yanmar coupler was much cheaper
than I expected ($60 if I recall) You can drill a series of holes in
the direction of the shaft and basically break the casting apart
leaving the shaft intact. Any damage to the shaft and it's a costly
repair.
Also, put alight coating of grease on the shaft where it goes into the
coupler so you don't repeat this in a few years.
Aaron

[Ragtime!]

Thanks Aaron. I put it back together today (without messing with the
shaft) because our final regatta is in two weeks and I want to make
sure everything still works.

The packing didn't go in that well. 1/8" packing was the right size
but I was only able to get two rings of it into the packing nut. I
suspect it didn't seat all the way up in the nut. I finally worked a
third ring of packing in there, but now the nut is only picking up two
threads of the other fitting. I didn't have time to launch and run
the engine - will do that next weekend. Todd and others who've done
this, were you able to get a third ring of packing in there and still
have plenty of thread overlap?

Bob J.

[Todd Aven]

When I packed it the first time, I got about 6 rings in and had at least a few threads engaged. That's how I screwed up. Second time around, I pit just the three rings in and had lots of threads engaged. I think I may have used vise grips with a long, coarse thread Sheetrock screw to push the packing into place.

[Ragtime!]

I hate engines.

[Aaron]

Bob, I second your thoughts on that engine location. The handle on
the seacock for the water intake broke off just before a race last
weekend. Trying to deal with a leaking seacock in that engine
compartment while under sail is enough to give someone a heart attack
from the stress. I thought I was done contorting myselfing into that
area after installing the dripless...

On Oct 2, 1:10 pm, "Ragtime!" <bobsail...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hate engines.