J/92 motor replacement

[dnewl...@msn.com]

Anyone done it themselves?  Looking for tips.  

My compression is just below spec @ 390 psi and I have a bad soot problem.  New injector, cleaned exhaust elbow, fresh fuel, no change.  Runs great, start quickly, just don't look back at the smoke screen when running over 2800 rpms.  Also, I noticed 1 of the raw water pump housing bolts no longer has any threads in the block to bit into.  Block rusted away at that bolt hole.  It only drips a little bit at a time so the motor is still functioning while on 2 of 3 water pump bolts.  For now.  

Will the motor fit through the forward opening or shall I bring a sawsall?  Any wedge/prybars used to help lift the motor over the mount studs then forward?  I figure once I get it to the cabin floor I can rig a lift off of the boom.

Sourcing a motor.  Quick search found 2 Indonesian sites that sell new motors for an unreal low price. A guy in Wisconsin has a rebuild for sale if you send him your core. EBAY has a few take-out motors.  I'm looking for new and may need to go through my Yanmar rep in Arizona.  

If there's anyone that has played this out, I'd sure appreciate some feedback!  

Thanks,

David  

[Tim Roche]

Bring a sawzall and cut away about 2 inches from just under the stairs.  Don't cut the fiberglass at the bottom of the engine hatch, thats structural.  Pulling it out is doable the other way, but you and whoever are helping you are gonna have a much better day if you cut it.

Take the mounting studs off completely, don't think that when you put the engine back in the alignment will be magically right if you just leave the mounts.

You can not get a new 1gm10 in the US, they don't have a valid emission certificate. 

Where are you located? 

Its not a super easy job, but not that hard either, I did mine with just the main halyard restrained by the outhaul.  We tried to use a chain hoist, but it was not easier, and the winches had plenty of power for the job. Took about 3-4 hours from start to finish to pull the old, and install the new.

Bring a couple friends, Ideally a very strong young guy, and a bunch of beer and be prepared for one or 2 people to be doing work while everyone else sits around for long periods of time, but every now and again, 8 hands will be really useful. 

My coupling was fairly new.  If yours is old and rusted you might want to work on getting that cracked off before you even start to think about pulling the engine.  That might be an all day exercise in bruising your knuckles.

Good luck! 

tim

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[dnewl...@msn.com]

Thanks, Tim!  A few questions.  Cut away about 2 inches from the top of the hatch opening, right?  

I'm in Az and the boat is currently in San Diego.  It will be back in Az around Sept.  I can get a new 1gm10 but it has to be a direct replacement due to a catastrophic failure, and i can say it's due to OD handicap reasons, etc.  The rep just has to show valid reason and he feels he can get a new one.  However, $10,000 with a trans.  $8200 without.  4-6 month backorder. 

The Indonesian sites look great, but fraudulent it seems.  I'm in contact with the guy that does rebuilds as I can't go 10K for new...

I could look at a 2 cylinder.  One guy on Sailing Anarchy mentioned a 2 cyl Beta conversion done to a J/92 in SF.  Bucks there, too, I'm sure and also another 60 lbs or so.  I'm sure it's silky smooth, too.  But, these boats just don't seem to need that HP.

Still feeling this out so if anyone has some chatter, LMK.  

[Tim Roche]

Correct, and I came in from the sides a little so the hatch still has something to slide into at the top, I just left that piece off for now, I’ll either glass it back in or hinge it at some point.

It might be slightly taller than 2 inches, I won’t be down at the boat for a while so I can’t say for sure.

The Indonesian sites are almost certainly scams, but I can’t prove it. 

My rebuild took longer than anticipated but works out well, it did end up costing over 5k all said and done, despite an initial quote of 3k

At that price new and just swap out the transmission starts to sound good. From what I’ve heard they are bulletproof.

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[Aaron]

I would probably rebuild the 1GM unless you're really looking for more power.  If you're going to a more powerful motor you'll also need to swap your prop to get any gain out of the upgrade - something else to factor into the overall cost.

You mentioned many things you've tried and considering you still have good compression I would keep trying to figure out where the smoke is coming from. Have you checked your valve clearance?

I just did my water pump project rebuild and had the same issues - lower two bolts were totally rusted/rounded/thinned, the oil supply line was rusting and ready to go, and some light rust on the oil pan. I didn't pull the engine out, but did have to remove the prop shaft and pull the engine off it's mounts and angle it up, but didn't pull it out. It's not easy to move around and would highly suggest stripping everything off it to lighten it up before removal

[dnewl...@msn.com]

Thanks, Aaron.   I don't think the mechanic checked valve clearance, but he was certain the motor doesn't have an air intake issue.  The engine will rev, under load, to 3600 rpms.  Just looks nasty doing it from 2800 to 3600 rpms.  He seems to think it's all because of incomplete combustion due to a (slightly) low compression reading.  I kind of doubted it, too, but don't know what else to check as these motors are rather simple.  I certainly can check valve clearance next time I'm on board.   

Rebuild Vs New Vs risk of buying used.  The question we all get to answer and some point or another!  Still researching options.  I found a sweet looking 1gm10 low hour take out, or so I thought.  Already sold.  

[Tim Roche]

Are you consuming oil?

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[dnewl...@msn.com]

Not consuming oil, or adding for that matter.  That, along with close to spec compression leads me to believe I don't really have a piston ring issue.  At least not broken.  Maybe carboned up but still seems to be sealing OK. 

[Aaron]

There are three types of smoke - white (steam), blue/gray (oil) and black (fuel).  I'm guessing you're talking about black smoke which is the motor running rich from either too much fuel or not enough time to burn it all. Hearing that you've replaced the injector (and assuming the pop off pressure is correct) I'm thinking the timing of the pump is off and injecting fuel too late in the cycle. It's set using shims under the pump to change the distance to the cam. Normally this is 10-15deg before TDC and can be a little tricky to measure/adjust. If your mechanic hasn't done that test, i'd find a yanmar tech and have him do it.

I'm suggesting this because you still have good compression, not consuming oil, and the cost for this will be a fraction of an engine replacement. These are super simple engines and all they really want is to spin and feed them fuel (at the correct time)

[dnewl...@msn.com]

You would think black smoke!  It's more light bluish.  I should have taken a pic and i will in 2 weeks when I run it again.  Which, makes the situation more confusing (to me anyway).  It was a Yanmar shop that looked at the motor, but it could be that they found "low" compression and just chalked it up to that and went about their day.  They are slammed, just like all other boat yards and as much as I'd like to think they ran through all scenarios, they probably didn't. 

As mentioned, it's not burning oil, but I also don't run the engine that much.  An hour tops, but mostly 10-15 minutes at a time.  Previous to the last oil change I may have had 1 year and 5-6 hours runtime total.  Maybe 3 hours total on this oil change, so that may not be a good enough gauge on oil consumption.  I'm not noticing any on the stick. 

There are a few photos on the Newport to Ensenada race site that show the transom soot, and that was running the engine at only 2500 rpms for an hour to try to keep the mess down as I had plenty of time to get to the starting line.  

Photos 419 to 421ish.   

Lisa Bronitt | 4/22/22 N2E Start part 1

[Mark Camilleri]

why dont u consider an electric motor ?

regards Mark

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Mark Camilleri

00356 99404089

[dnewl...@msn.com]

Range and resale.  Also, still a bit timid about lithium batteries.  In a prior life I was heavily involved in remote controlled electric race boats, so I have a fairly good working knowledge and though batteries and charging systems are getting better/safer, thermal runaway is something that I'd rather not have happen on board.  With that said, if I was 100% lake racing my boat, electric is certainly worth considering.  

[dnewl...@msn.com]

Update: I am consuming oil so now it's falling into place.  Seems to be a ring sealing issue.  Rough guess maybe 1/2 qt after 3-4 hours runtime.  FYI Tub O Towels does a great job cleaning the transom!  

I ordered a rebuild but not sure on timeframe.  And, I'm not sure if I go for a snake oil fix for the time being or just run it and add oil.  A few things I found online to do:  Pull injector and fill cylinder with 50/50 mix of acetone and transmission fluid and let it sit.  Clean out, oil change and run.  Or, Rislone Ring Seal treatment.  

The engine still starts right up and runs normally, except for this: 

[dnewl...@msn.com]

I have a rebuilt motor ready to go, but the guy wants to know the gear ratio I have.  Boat is 400 miles away and I don't want to ask my brother in law to crawl back in there to find the stamping. 

Anyone know if the 1gm10 gear ratio is 2.62:1?  I'm being told that is the standard ratio, but there are 2 others that Yanmar uses for that motor.  

[Tim Roche]

Thats what mine has.

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[David Macfarlane]

Jekyll has a ratio of 2.21:1 Sorry to add confusion

David 

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[dnewl...@msn.com]

Tim/David, what are your hull #'s?  That's interesting.

[Tim Roche]

Zaff hull 48

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[David Macfarlane]

1993 Hull 39 I think.

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[dnewl...@msn.com]

Conclusion.  I found a Yanmar dealer in Wisconsin (Schooner Bay Marina) who does rebuilds.  He typically has a few going at a time so you buy a rebuild (and trans), then send yours back as a core for a deposit.  After racing July 16th, my son and I yanked the old one out and placed the rebuild in without too much issue.  Though, I did have to clearance above and below the engine hatch area.  It wasn't coming out without an inch or so cut to the lower fiberglass support. I'll either glass back in the piece or cap it with a stainless angle piece.  1 engine mount had a frozen bolt so I was lucky the new alignment didn't need it to be adjusted.  I should have bought 4 new mounts and will do so soon.  It was also recommended (and I will get) to use the rubber isolator between the trans output shaft and prop shaft.  

The rebuild needs your alternator, wiring harness and a few odd/ends that may or may not be with the motor.  All sensors where there.  I had to triple check the throttle, stop and gear linkage and brackets to make sure i had everything and I had to pull a few pieces off of my motor to make it all work.  

And it did.  Fired right up and I did a San Diego to Santa Barbara delivery 2 days later.  40 engine hours in total after racing down the coast to L.A., then back to San Diego.  

The best way I figured for engine removal was to use an old Mastercraft driveshaft that I used  as a lever.  I drilled a 3/4" hole in the back of the engine compartment, up high and slightly off center.  The shaft went in that hole and I locked it with locking plyers.  From there, a ratchet strap around the motor and driveshaft gave me good leverage to lift the motor with the main sheet.  Pulled right out once I clearanced the lower area.  

I did have a bit of a scare with the PSS shaft seal.  The rebuild motor/trans was about 1/4" shorter for some reason, and that much pull forward of the shaft popped the seal and water started to flow.  Took a bit of shaft adjustment and some phone calls to make sure I was comfortable with my repair.  Lots went through my head in a short amount of time. 

[Mark Camilleri]

How is the exhaust now ? With the rebuilt engine 

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[dnewl...@msn.com]

Perfect.  For a few hours I still had some oil getting on the transom but it must have been residual build up in the muffler.  After my recent trip, the transom soot lessened every day to almost non-existant.  Still a little wipe with a Tub O Towel but 98% better.  

Before/After

[Mark Camilleri]

Excellent . 

Regards 

Mark Camilleri

99404089

On 02 Aug 2022, at 23:49, dnewl...@msn.com <dnewl...@msn.com> wrote:

Perfect.  For a few hours I still had some oil getting on the transom but it must have been residual build up in the muffler.  After my recent trip, the transom soot lessened every day to almost non-existant.  Still a little wipe with a Tub O Towel but 98% better.  

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