Soft spots in cockpit floor.
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Rob G
Dec 4, 2010, 5:01:38 PM12/4/10
to J/92 Owners
I'm looking at potentially buying a j/92 with soft spots in the
cockpit if the price is right. Everything else on the boat appears to
be in good condition. How much would this repair normally cost?
Anything else I should be looking out for?
Thanks
cockpit if the price is right. Everything else on the boat appears to
be in good condition. How much would this repair normally cost?
Anything else I should be looking out for?
Thanks
Joe Cooper
Dec 4, 2010, 5:33:37 PM12/4/10
to j92o...@googlegroups.com
Rob,
Need more info to give better answer but for now consider:
Is the "soft spot" in the area of fasteners secured to the deck/floor? Like fer instance the teak foot braces-So the water has got in via the fastners work ing over the years? Or is it in a large spot like where the guys jump down from the deck...
What readings did you get with the moisture meter?
The core of these boats is, I am 99% certain, Balsa, which being wood absorbs moisture. Thus you need to determine the area of the "soft" spot compared to the moisture in the general vicinity of the soft spot.... The "soft spot might be say 8 inches in diameter but damp core might be plus 24 inches outside that-Follow?.
SO
Moisture meter needed for this plus some diligent sounding with the rubber mallet- Competent surveyor can instruct on the finer details.
Repair?
Depends but the variables are
* Does the core need to be replaced? in which case commonly the skin on one side (the top?) is removed, the wet mushy balsa is removed new core installed new laminate gel coat and off you go.
If the spot is not so big, sometimes you can cheat and gouge out the wet core and merely fill the void with epoxy mixed with cabosil or similar-Gougeons West System (not marine) has several great soft cover publications on this whole affair worth the 20 bucks just to understand what the repair guys are telling you...http://www.westsystem.com/ss/how-to-publications/ A mate of mine has just done this to the chain-plates are on his 25 plus year old Nordic 44 and he did it himself, so this cheat method it is well within the skill range of an intelligent engaged amateur
*Simplicity of work-Is it all on a flat spot or does it go round a curve?
*Skill of operator
* Does job need to be repainted?
Does the boat need to be hauled, for temperature more than stability-if in the North and cold is not easy to keep warm while gluing...
What part of the country are you? are there skilled glass guys/boat builders in the area?
Good luck-Let me know if you need more opinion...
Cheers
Cooper
Joe Cooper
C: 401 965 6006
Bushra...@gmail.com
www.practicallysailing.com
www.shopherbalife.com/joecooper
And on Facebook:
search practicallysailing
AND/or
Newport dream nutrition
Need more info to give better answer but for now consider:
Is the "soft spot" in the area of fasteners secured to the deck/floor? Like fer instance the teak foot braces-So the water has got in via the fastners work ing over the years? Or is it in a large spot like where the guys jump down from the deck...
What readings did you get with the moisture meter?
The core of these boats is, I am 99% certain, Balsa, which being wood absorbs moisture. Thus you need to determine the area of the "soft" spot compared to the moisture in the general vicinity of the soft spot.... The "soft spot might be say 8 inches in diameter but damp core might be plus 24 inches outside that-Follow?.
SO
Moisture meter needed for this plus some diligent sounding with the rubber mallet- Competent surveyor can instruct on the finer details.
Repair?
Depends but the variables are
* Does the core need to be replaced? in which case commonly the skin on one side (the top?) is removed, the wet mushy balsa is removed new core installed new laminate gel coat and off you go.
If the spot is not so big, sometimes you can cheat and gouge out the wet core and merely fill the void with epoxy mixed with cabosil or similar-Gougeons West System (not marine) has several great soft cover publications on this whole affair worth the 20 bucks just to understand what the repair guys are telling you...http://www.westsystem.com/ss/how-to-publications/ A mate of mine has just done this to the chain-plates are on his 25 plus year old Nordic 44 and he did it himself, so this cheat method it is well within the skill range of an intelligent engaged amateur
*Simplicity of work-Is it all on a flat spot or does it go round a curve?
*Skill of operator
* Does job need to be repainted?
Does the boat need to be hauled, for temperature more than stability-if in the North and cold is not easy to keep warm while gluing...
What part of the country are you? are there skilled glass guys/boat builders in the area?
Good luck-Let me know if you need more opinion...
Cheers
Cooper
Joe Cooper
Bushra...@gmail.com
www.practicallysailing.com
www.shopherbalife.com/joecooper
And on Facebook:
search practicallysailing
AND/or
Newport dream nutrition
Ragtime!
Dec 4, 2010, 8:30:56 PM12/4/10
to J/92 Owners
Hi Rob,
Heck I'll ask - which boat are you looking at?
Joe is right - the hulls and decks (including cockpits) are balsa
cored. It's good stuff to keep the boat stiff and light, and is
better than foam core for decks, but it is definitely higher
maintenance than solid glass.
The cockpit problem is usually caused by the mainsheet swivel-cam.
It's bolted through the cored cockpit sole and because of the loads,
it works loose. Then water penetrates around the four bolts. You can
see the underside by peeling back the insulation at the aft end inside
the engine box. I had that section cut out on my boat and replaced
with solid glass, then replaced the swivel-cam with the larger Harken
unit which has the bolts spaced farther apart. Finally, use fender
washers or a big backing plate under the nuts in the engine box -
that's where the factory blew it IMHO.
To get the repair cost, the surveyor needs to carefully mark the
boundaries of the wet core using his moisture meter. Then have your
friendly neighborhood boatyard give you a quote. Based on my
experience, I'll guess one boat buck should do it - maybe less if the
area is small.
Bob J.
Heck I'll ask - which boat are you looking at?
Joe is right - the hulls and decks (including cockpits) are balsa
cored. It's good stuff to keep the boat stiff and light, and is
better than foam core for decks, but it is definitely higher
maintenance than solid glass.
The cockpit problem is usually caused by the mainsheet swivel-cam.
It's bolted through the cored cockpit sole and because of the loads,
it works loose. Then water penetrates around the four bolts. You can
see the underside by peeling back the insulation at the aft end inside
the engine box. I had that section cut out on my boat and replaced
with solid glass, then replaced the swivel-cam with the larger Harken
unit which has the bolts spaced farther apart. Finally, use fender
washers or a big backing plate under the nuts in the engine box -
that's where the factory blew it IMHO.
To get the repair cost, the surveyor needs to carefully mark the
boundaries of the wet core using his moisture meter. Then have your
friendly neighborhood boatyard give you a quote. Based on my
experience, I'll guess one boat buck should do it - maybe less if the
area is small.
Bob J.
Colin
Dec 4, 2010, 10:27:14 PM12/4/10
to J/92 Owners
Great description of the usual problem. See photo I just uploaded to
the files section (poohsticks-0000img.jpg) - part way through the
repair we had done in 2002.
Cheers,
Colin
the files section (poohsticks-0000img.jpg) - part way through the
repair we had done in 2002.
Cheers,
Colin
Rob G
Dec 5, 2010, 4:37:10 PM12/5/10
to J/92 Owners
Thanks for the replies, sorry I don't have more details at the moment,
I wanted to see how much money such a repair might cost before I go
any further. If the repair is done such as Bob has described, this
seems like a significant upgrade and would make the cost of the repair
more tolerable. The boat I'm looking at is Mischief in Florida, it
was on the market for a while but not officially at this time. Anyone
have more details on the boat?
-Rob
I wanted to see how much money such a repair might cost before I go
any further. If the repair is done such as Bob has described, this
seems like a significant upgrade and would make the cost of the repair
more tolerable. The boat I'm looking at is Mischief in Florida, it
was on the market for a while but not officially at this time. Anyone
have more details on the boat?
-Rob
Ragtime!
Dec 5, 2010, 5:34:42 PM12/5/10
to J/92 Owners
Only that I sailed on it a couple of times with Bob A, several years
ago. It seemed pretty fast - we'd have won if I hadn't dallied too
long making the last gybe. I think she might have sold long ago if
the water wasn't so shallow around there - scratch boat but a bit too
much draft for south Tampa Bay. Say Hi for me.
ago. It seemed pretty fast - we'd have won if I hadn't dallied too
long making the last gybe. I think she might have sold long ago if
the water wasn't so shallow around there - scratch boat but a bit too
much draft for south Tampa Bay. Say Hi for me.
Pincus
Dec 7, 2010, 9:57:24 AM12/7/10
to J/92 Owners
Everything that was said so far is spot on.
A previous owner of my boat decided to install a 3" vent on foredeck.
While not a good idea, they never sealed the hole they cut. When I
got the boat, I could sick my figer through the balsa. I was in a
rush, and paid $900 to have the 2' by 3' section removed, new core
installed and glassed back over.
> > The boat I'm looking at is Mischief in Florida, it was on the market for a while but not officially at this time. Anyone have more details on the boat?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
A previous owner of my boat decided to install a 3" vent on foredeck.
While not a good idea, they never sealed the hole they cut. When I
got the boat, I could sick my figer through the balsa. I was in a
rush, and paid $900 to have the 2' by 3' section removed, new core
installed and glassed back over.
>
> - Show quoted text -
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