Luff slides vs bolt rope on the main

[Andy O]

Any opinions on the relative merits of luff slides or a simple bolt
rope for the main sails? My sailmaker sails the bolt rope gives a
better fit from mast to sail. But of course, luff slides are
convenient and easier to hoist. But I never leave my main on the boom.

[Todd Aven]

I leave my main on the boom. Every main I've had has luff slides and they work great. I can flake the main perfectly by myself from the clew once the luff has been arranged in alternating folds.

I believe that there is less real damage from these folds than from a sausage or flake that gets stored below.

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[Joe Cooper]

IF you take the main off after every sail, boat rope is fine
IF you go for a sail alone with S.O. or non sailors, slides are WAY better. Performance difference is immeasurable
IF you do slides pay a bit extra and get (demand) Allslip. http://www.sail-making.com/dbimgs/us/03_USA_Hardware_063_132.pdf

they are black a bit longer then "normal" nylon slides and are made  of a molybdenum self lubricating plastic. Much more slippery then the nylon.
The link is to the bainbridge cattle dog for slides. Allslip are on page 74. A 92 probably will take either a A117 or A 118 depending on spar section.
Other issues are:
IF the sail is older, retrofitting slides may move the foot aft too much so you cannot get max outhaul.LEss of a problem if getting a new sail
Also where the gate is and the closing config needs attention.
Also the reffing detail at the tack if the gate is high and then thre are some slides under the reep fing, it may not fit on the reef hook...

remember to keep track clean too if you are in the NE area and leave the rig in over the winter..All manner of crud accumulates in the groove-same applies to foil too, fyi.

Cheers
coop

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[Rod Carr]

The bolt rope may give a "better fit from mast to sail" but there is so much turbulence just aft of the mast that the better fit is irrelevant.  What is more relevant is the amount of effective sail area gained when the whole main is allowed to move aft an inch or so when slides are used.  A highly regarded J/80 sailor and sailmaker told me that years ago when I had a J/80 and was trying to decide which way to go.

And yes, using slides makes it easier to flake but another sailmaker told me not to be obsessed with making the perfect flake after each outing.  When our last mainsail finally died, you could see where the sail had broken down along the lines where it had been flaked repeatedly.  

Rod Carr

Any opinions on the relative merits of luff slides or a simple bolt
rope for the main sails?  My sailmaker sails the bolt rope gives a
better fit from mast to sail.  But of course, luff slides are
convenient and easier to hoist.  But I never leave my main on the boom.

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[Joe Cooper]

All
Rodd's sail-maker comments and remarks on the sail failing on the folds are sound.
speaking as a former sail maker "mast fit" more likely refers to matching the luff curve to the mast bend. IT is a tad easier  with a bolt rope. Young America & the French in 1995 AC programs (in monohulls with soft sails....) tried to determine the difference between slides and bolt rope and could not. That is about as conclusive evidence in the sailing game that one can get I reckon.
cheers
coop

[Andy]

I do prefer the convenience of slides on orijin - in fact had the main modified to take them. One thing to be aware of though is that your luff tension eases as you put on more back stay as the luff tends to stretch between slides instead of following the mast curve. Not a big issue, but some think their halyards are starting to slip...
Andy

[RJA Armstrong]

I use slugs on delivery/cruising main and bolt rope on racing main. We have always rolled rather than flaked the racing mains. We actually roll it so you attach the head and as it is hoisted it unrolls. I have a nylon strap that goes over the end of boom when almost at full hoist and them the outhaul is attached.

I'll get back to you guys on the cockpit foot braces.

Bob A
Mischief

On Oct 5, 2011 3:50 PM, "Andy" <andy....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I do prefer the convenience of slides on orijin - in fact had the main modified to take them. One thing to be aware of though is that your luff tension eases as you put on more back stay as the luff tends to stretch between slides instead of following the mast curve. Not a big issue, but some think their halyards are starting to slip...
> Andy
>
> Joe Cooper <bushra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>All
>>Rodd's sail-maker comments and remarks on the sail failing on the folds are
>>sound.
>>speaking as a former sail maker "mast fit" more likely refers to matching
>>the luff curve to the mast bend. IT is a tad easier with a bolt rope. Young
>>America & the French in 1995 AC programs (in monohulls with soft sails....)
>>tried to determine the difference between slides and bolt rope and could
>>not. That is about as conclusive evidence in the sailing game that one can
>>get I reckon.
>>cheers
>>coop
>>
>>On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Rod Carr <rodc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The bolt rope may give a "better fit from mast to sail" but there is so
>>> much turbulence just aft of the mast that the better fit is irrelevant.

>>> What is more relevant is the amount of *effective* sail area gained when

[Richard Huczek]

Hi all, has anyone seen a better or more importantly a slide system that will go into a main mast gap that is thinner than the kiwi slides allow?

I had the guys make slides of 2 inch dacron bolt rope material which was sewn to an existing main luff rope, installed at 2'-0" centres [which gave me a descent stack height]  works extremely well, if not totally attractive but hugely convenient.

I have a second main with full bolt rope luff for full crew races.

R

[Joe Cooper]

Andy
Hi-Joe Cooper here-In Newport RI.
If I might modify your comments on backstay/luff slipping a tad....?
Assume with more backstay there is more wind and thus assume, equally, more main sheet tension?
Main halyards on all boats stretch to some degree (hence halyard locks)
When the main sheet is loaded up, the poor old main halyard has no chance-Consider a 6:1 main sheet passing the load thru the leech of the (presumably very low stretch) sail up to the head of the sail. With a P of 38 feet plus say 6 feet back aft to the clutch, total 44 feet, assume a very low stretch cordage, say half a % is still 2.6 inches of halyard stretch. More than enough to demonstrate the scolloping we so soften see in hank on sail is mains with slides....
case (very extrems) in point. One Very Large Yacht my former employers made a mainsail for (170' P) complained it was too short (or long on the leech perhaps-Maybe the latter it sagged and hit the gallows...) on the hoist... Discussions carried on for a bit. Management explained the scenairo I just outlined (equal to about 18 inches on this yacht)-owners unimpressed....So we cut a deal to inspect the situation-If we are wrong, we pay the air costs for our crew to get to the boat & fix. If boat is wrong they pay....

Our guys traveled to the boat-Us to Europe-- and went sailing and up the rig with a camera.
Video footage of the sail sliding down the spar 18 inches as the boat came on the wind----shut every one up. Beers & hotel & air fares were on the boat. BTW-Halyard was 25 mm spectra, 2:1

Then with the back stay tension, the top if the mast is moving closer to the deck, so that compounds the reduction in distance and optical view of soft mainsail luff...
Enter Briggs Cunningham in 1958....

Cheers
Coop