Time for a mainsail. Leaning toward Dacron......

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Wayne Connelly

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Jan 13, 2022, 7:09:22 PM1/13/22
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Are any J92 owners out there going with dacron mainsails?  Looking at my options and would appreciate any feedback.  Thanks in advance.

Deirdre Mailloux

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Jan 14, 2022, 7:43:55 PM1/14/22
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Went with North Radian last season and worked quite well   (Trying to attach photos)
Patrick



On Jan 13, 2022, at 7:09 PM, Wayne Connelly <wayneco...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are any J92 owners out there going with dacron mainsails?  Looking at my options and would appreciate any feedback.  Thanks in advance.

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Jack NELSON jr

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Jan 14, 2022, 8:32:10 PM1/14/22
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Awesome boat ! 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 14, 2022, at 4:43 PM, Deirdre Mailloux <d73p6...@gmail.com> wrote:


Went with North Radian last season and worked quite well   (Trying to attach photos)
Patrick

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On Jan 13, 2022, at 7:09 PM, Wayne Connelly <wayneco...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are any J92 owners out there going with dacron mainsails?  Looking at my options and would appreciate any feedback.  Thanks in advance.

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JD Vincent

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Jan 15, 2022, 11:12:18 AM1/15/22
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I bought a North “Nordac” main 3 years ago based on advice from my local North loft (Toronto).  As I understand it, Nordac is a cross between Dacron and 3di.  I didn’t realize it at the time, but North markets it as a “performance cruising” sail.  My boat, a 2007 92S is used for local racing and I don’t “cruise”.

The North rep told me that for a smaller boat like my 92S, there isn’t a cost benefit advantage to buy the more expensive 3di for the main (but the reverse is true for jibs he said).  He told me to expect this sail to last 10 years, which I think is probably true (surprisingly).

Anyway, the sail seems to be an improvement over the main I replaced, which was a North 3dl sail that only lasted 5 years.  It is a very heavy and slippery material, which means in practice it is extremely durable and long lasting, but it more difficult to hoist and is difficult to manage when flaking.  Despite the weight, it seems fine in light air.

Wayne Connelly

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Jan 15, 2022, 2:37:36 PM1/15/22
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Thanks for the responses!  A sail builder looking to sell me a mainsail for my J92 is recommending a dacron crosscut sail, saying "that it is what the J105s use for their OD mains".  Although true, I suspect that they may use it for cost or consistency reasons for their OD fleet, rather than it being the better sail vs exotic material or even a tri-radial dacron sail.

I wonder, if allowed, would other than crosscut mains be preferred (faster)? 

And if there any J105s not racing OD that sail with mains other than the crosscut dacron required by the OD rules?

Any input is appreciated.

Wayne

Todd Aven

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Jan 15, 2022, 3:58:44 PM1/15/22
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From my experience…

Molded shapes are better (assuming a good mold). The intended aerodynamic shape is continuous rather than segmented. 

Materials using non-stretch fibers (technora, dyneema, carbon) aligned to load path are better. The shape will hold in all wind ranges. 


On Jan 15, 2022, at 2:35 PM, Wayne Connelly <wayneco...@gmail.com> wrote:


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bushra...@gmail.com

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Jan 16, 2022, 9:04:30 AM1/16/22
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The questions, for which answers are not posed in this thread but I suggest are items to consider and should be asked by the sail sales guy,

 

What do you use the boat for?

PHRF, OD, goofing around, some combo?

HOW long do you want the sail to  last: a) as performance, b) structurally

What is your budget?

How long to you plan to keep the boat?

IF you race, is your crew work high level? Medium, or just mates?

Can you get clean starts and go around corners? CAN the crew perform at a level equal to an expensive sail?

Coz if you cannot do that cleanly 95% of the time, go and work on that before spending 3-6k on a sail

 

THE goal being to find the best value product that will match your program. All sail fabric is a compromise.

 

Regarding the performance of one fabric over another, yes the “high performance materials”, the string sails tend to be the fastest.

But, and I understand this is not so much an issue in a 30 footer mainsail, the TP 52 class can determine the performance degradation in a fiber path sail after about 30 hours, 2-4 boat lengths in a 45 minute race. So, one regatta basically.

 

J-24 and other  OD classes have the same issues, though  a lot more subjective measurement methods.

Yes they are extreme, but that is a measured fact.

North, Doyle Quantum and to some extent UK all have “string sails”.

They all have their plusses and minuses.

Even a one man shop can get a string sail, there are firms that make such sails for smaller lofts.

There are technical aspects of radial Dacron that does not make sense from a weaving point of view and the fabrics so made generally tend to have a lot of finishing resin in them.

 

BOTH Dimension and  Contender offer a product that is a sporty fiber, Technora, Aramid, and carbon bit at more cost, that can be made  using the cross cut construction method. These fabrics were developed exactly to address the higher cost of making tri radial sails-the latter take longer to make.

Any of the major names can make a perfectly fine sail in any fabric and combination of fibers you want to pay for.

 

The biggest, and I suggest the most value variable is to get a rep who is on your side of the table. Who will come and check your boat, measure the deflection of the mast the way you have it set up.

 

It is most common for sails for such widely known sails to be made from existing sail files. YU will get a generic J92 mainsail and you will never see the rep. This means amongst other things you will likely need to change your rig set up when the sail arrives.

 

This is a transactional way to buy an expensive thing.

 

Full disclosure, I work in this very business, hence the list of questions at the beginning.

 

Cheers

Coop

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bushra...@gmail.com

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Jan 16, 2022, 9:09:59 AM1/16/22
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And Nor-Dac is “just” Dacron. NOT in the same genealogy as 3Di.

It is a woven, roll good fabric. Meaning it come from a cloth vendor, or the weavers, in a truck, on a roll, like paper towels.

It has been promoted for 15 years as North Dacron.

Implying they make it. They do not own production looms. They have a couple for R&D.

North, like all sailmakers buy material from one of the 4,5 cloth vendors.

They are big enough, tho’, that they can source directly from the weavers too, Kenyon and Glen raven mills, in the US.

 

The cross cut OD main discussion is sound.

 

C

 

 

From: j92o...@googlegroups.com <j92o...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Wayne Connelly
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 2:38 PM
To: J/92 Owners <j92o...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [j92owners] Re: Time for a mainsail. Leaning toward Dacron......

 

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Lenny Gordon

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Jan 17, 2022, 12:23:31 AM1/17/22
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I have a classic J92 in California. Went with North 3Di Raw. Main and #1. Went from middle of the pack of local 12 boat PHRF fleet to top 1 or 2. Now top 3 cause the other J92 also went 3DI. We beat J105s with Dacron that are in the fleet above use with their 5 minute head start.  

Becky Walford

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Jan 21, 2022, 3:25:23 AM1/21/22
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Morning.
Think about what you are going to do with the boat and what special regs you need to comply with.
Ie how many reefs.
I have two mains a stunning carbon main with one reef for racing as we only race cat 4 in the solent.
I also have a Dacron main for cruising on slides with less roach and three reefs. We also use this for two handed. It is heavier than the carbon main even though it is smaller in area…… due to the three reeds reenforcement.
Personally I think north 3di is over priced and a decent sail maker with a make a panelled sail as a good shape, my next new jibs are of GPL lite skin which is really good. How long will it last, well depends on how much use it has and how well you look after it.
The carbon main likes a soft luff and wrinkles, talk to various sailmakers and get different opinion and go from there but a good sail maker will ask what you are going to use it for. Remember that the sweet spot on the 92 is 8 to 12 knots….of wind…. Fully crewed….. 
Happy to discuss further.

Will send some phots later

b

Becky Walford

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Jan 21, 2022, 3:33:19 AM1/21/22
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Something to brighten your inbox on a Friday its nearly the weekend morning…..

On 15 Jan 2022, at 20:58, Todd Aven <to...@avenshaven.net> wrote:

Becky Walford

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Jan 21, 2022, 3:33:55 AM1/21/22
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