J/40 Rudder Post

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Stephen Babcock

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Apr 23, 2021, 2:09:52 PM4/23/21
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My J/40, Ragtime, hull #49, has a rudder post extending up several inches from the bottom of the hull, with a 10 to 12: metal collar at its top.  There is another metal collar attached to the top of the first collar, with 8 large bolts connecting the two collars.  When I bought this boat 3 years ago, I noticed that some of the bolts were loose and I hand tightened them.  The owner's manual that I have says nothing about this rudder post. 
I would very much appreciate any advice on what servicing or maintenance I should do regarding what appears to be a "stuffing box" .  Should it be periodically repacked,  or should I just ignore it?  No water comes out between these two collars when the boat is at rest.  But I have never tried to get through to this area, behind the cockpit locker on the port side of my cockpit,  when the boat is underway, so I don't know whether it remains dry when the boat is healed.
IMG_2448.JPG

Stephen Babcock

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Apr 23, 2021, 2:14:00 PM4/23/21
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I meant to write "10 to 12 inch".

On 4/23/2021 2:09 PM, Stephen Babcock wrote:
My J/40, Ragtime, hull #49, has a rudder post extending up several inches from the bottom of the hull, with a 10 to 12: metal collar at its top.  There is another metal collar attached to the top of the first collar, with 8 large bolts connecting the two collars.  When I bought this boat 3 years ago, I noticed that some of the bolts were loose and I hand tightened them.  The owner's manual that I have says nothing about this rudder post. 
I would very much appreciate any advice on what servicing or maintenance I should do regarding what appears to be a "stuffing box" .  Should it be periodically repacked,  or should I just ignore it?  No water comes out between these two collars when the boat is at rest.  But I have never tried to get through to this area, behind the cockpit locker on the port side of my cockpit,  when the boat is underway, so I don't know whether it remains dry when the boat is healed.
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Joseph Ruzzi

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Apr 23, 2021, 2:40:19 PM4/23/21
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Steve,

I don't have a direct answer to your question, but there's a file on the J/40 website with info and experiences others have had with their rudder bearings.  Here's  the URL:  


Spada (hull #45) was formerly known as Chinook.  The rudder bearing replacement was done by the previous owner.   The pics about 3/4ths of the way through the pdf show when he had the bearings replaced.

Joe

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 2:09 PM Stephen Babcock <si...@rcn.com> wrote:
My J/40, Ragtime, hull #49, has a rudder post extending up several inches from the bottom of the hull, with a 10 to 12: metal collar at its top.  There is another metal collar attached to the top of the first collar, with 8 large bolts connecting the two collars.  When I bought this boat 3 years ago, I noticed that some of the bolts were loose and I hand tightened them.  The owner's manual that I have says nothing about this rudder post. 
I would very much appreciate any advice on what servicing or maintenance I should do regarding what appears to be a "stuffing box" .  Should it be periodically repacked,  or should I just ignore it?  No water comes out between these two collars when the boat is at rest.  But I have never tried to get through to this area, behind the cockpit locker on the port side of my cockpit,  when the boat is underway, so I don't know whether it remains dry when the boat is healed.

--

Bill Bowers

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Apr 23, 2021, 6:40:48 PM4/23/21
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Hi Stephen,

The OEM J42 rudder has the same rudder stuffing box The packing is ~ 3/8 square fiber reinforced Teflon material, I think from Grainger, We replaced ours several years ago for no reason and have since had intermittent chronic leaks causing the bilge pump to cycle when sailing in any seas, particularly following.  When leaking is happening you tighten the bolts a bit, avoiding overtightening to minimize steering stiffness.  I think the rudder is far less punishing of it's seal than a propshaft.

Bill Stellin converted to a gaiter Jeffa bearing system in Europe and reports feather light steering with no leaks.  His write ups are in the old Yahoo site.

Best,
Bill J42 #3

rers...@netscape.net

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Apr 23, 2021, 7:46:02 PM4/23/21
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Hi Bill,
For years on this board, I've been reading about issues with the lower rudder bearing on J42's, and wondering why my experience on J42 hull #65 hasn't seemed to resemble the various lower bearing stories from other J42's.  My J42, being somewhat heavily laden after about 16 years of semi-live aboard cruising, has her rudder bearing just at, or below the water line.  The bearing and rudder post are enclosed in a cylindrical "well" about 12" deep.  Sea water seeps around the bearing.  It is usually wet and, when underway, can be several inches deep inside the "well", but has never risen high enough to get inside the boat.  I have replaced the upper bearing, but the lower bearing has always been tight with smooth.  I've suspected that, like the prop shaft cutlass bearing, sea water immersion acts as a lubricant.  When the boat's on the hard, I flood the "well" with warm soapy water and let it run through the bearing to rinse out the salt.  So far that's been the extent of my lower bearing maintenance.  Judging by the description of lower bearing problems and replacements, I'm wondering if the later builds of the J42 incorporated any changes of rudder installation from earlier builds.

Thanks for Any Thoughts on the Matter,
Reed Erskine  J42 #65 Cayenne

William Stellin

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Apr 23, 2021, 8:45:37 PM4/23/21
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You are one of the lucky ones without the Harken bearing. 
Count your blessings and enjoy. 
Bill #6

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On Apr 23, 2021, at 7:46 PM, 'rers...@netscape.net' via J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Ed S

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Apr 24, 2021, 4:32:51 AM4/24/21
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Ventus (#68) has the same set up as Reed has described, and behaves in the same manner. The bearing is wet while in the water, and I’ve never had seawater come over the well and into the boat. 

My upper bearing, however, appears to be shot. Lots of play, to the point that the housing has worked loose and I needed to tighten the bolts up. One more spring project on the list. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that upper bearing replacement covered in earlier posts.  

Regards,
Ed

------------------------------------
Ed Sitver
WhatsApp:  +1 303-570-5071
Mobile: +1 303-570-5071

On Apr 24, 2021, at 1:45 AM, William Stellin <wste...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 You are one of the lucky ones without the Harken bearing. 

Stephen Babcock

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Apr 27, 2021, 8:18:48 PM4/27/21
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Thank you, Bill and Joe, for your comments.  I will get back close to that stuffing box when Ragtime is underway and see whether or not it leaks.  If it does, I'll repack the box.  Regards, Steve Babcock

William Stellin

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Apr 27, 2021, 9:11:30 PM4/27/21
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The problem with accepting small rudder post leaks especially in following seas is that not all the salt water gets to the bilge pump. Some remains in the boat trapped by bulkheads, stringers etc. Eventually it does drain but in the meantime it sloshes around where wiring might be. Like the grounding system and with enough water up to the fresh water pressure switch when you are heeled to port. I don’t have to tell you what a bad mix electrical wiring and salt water makes for. I would turn heaven and earth to make sure absolutely no sea water ( unless it is fresh water) enters the boat from the rudder post.   TPI did a poor job cleaning up sawdust in the bottom especially where the starboard fuel tank is. A poultice of damp salty sawdust in contact with a stray stainless steel screw and the aluminum tank ate through the tank requiring complete removal and some very masterful welding by an Italian company in Gaeta Italy. Tightening the bolts around the old style will stop the leaks but it will also make for very stiff steering. The new style Jeffa bearing is the answer. There are other fine bearings but I am only familiar with Jeffa.  
Good luck
Bill #6
Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 27, 2021, at 8:18 PM, Stephen Babcock <si...@rcn.com> wrote:



Stephen Babcock

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Apr 27, 2021, 9:20:51 PM4/27/21
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Bill--I couldn't agree more about the problems that salt water leaking into the hull can cause.  But one thing I was not aware of--I gather from what you say that the lower of the two collars that are visible in the photo I included with my original e-mail is in fact a part of the lower bearing.  Is that correct?  Regards, Steve Babcock

William Stellin

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Apr 27, 2021, 9:32:02 PM4/27/21
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I don’t think the lower collar is attached to the bearing. Honestly, it was over 15 years ago and I can’t picture it completely in my mind. If you replace the stuffing,  get it from West Marine or Defender impregnated with a special Teflon type grease. Also buy some of the same grease to slather on the outside of the stuffing material.  Also be sure to cut the rope on an angle so the ends overlap and not just butt up to each other.  It make a huge difference in ease of steering and allows the bolts to be tightened down to no leak status. 
Bill #6

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On Apr 27, 2021, at 9:20 PM, Stephen Babcock <si...@rcn.com> wrote:



William Stellin

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Apr 27, 2021, 9:38:40 PM4/27/21
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It just dawned on me you have a J/40. Mine is a J/42. I don’t know if they were the same style seals.  I didn’t see your photo. Sorry if my comments don’t apply. 
Bill #6

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On Apr 27, 2021, at 9:20 PM, Stephen Babcock <si...@rcn.com> wrote:



Bill Bowers

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Apr 28, 2021, 11:53:32 AM4/28/21
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Stephen,

No, the lower ring is the fixed half of the stuffing box which is attached to the lower bearing tube.  The lower bearing is at the bottom of the bearing tube flush with the outer surface of the hull.

Bill J42 #3

Bill Bowers

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Apr 28, 2021, 12:10:14 PM4/28/21
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If the lower bearing were at the top of the bearing tube the bearing tube would crack away from the hull immediately.

Bill #3

Bill Bowers

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Apr 28, 2021, 12:24:02 PM4/28/21
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Here is the lower bearing solidly part of the hull itself.   Also note our 100% effective lobster pot line deflector which last summer shrugged off a half dozen lines in Maine snagged while sailing   

Best
Bill J42 #3


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On Apr 28, 2021, at 11:53 AM, Bill Bowers <wfb0...@gmail.com> wrote:



William Stellin

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Apr 28, 2021, 12:43:13 PM4/28/21
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If memory serves, my bearing looked the same. Notice the ring just above the rudder itself.  I think that is part of the bearing. Probably the race.  On my boat it turned with the rudder and was not supposed to. It’s part of the bearing and independent of the rudder post. When you move the rudder from stop to stop does the ring move with the rudder and do you hear grinding noise?
Bill #6

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Bill Bowers <wfb0...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Here is the lower bearing solidly part of the hull itself.   Also note our 100% effective lobster pot line deflector which last summer shrugged off a half dozen lines in Maine snagged while sailing   

Best
Bill J42 #3
<image0.jpeg>

Stephen Babcock

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Apr 28, 2021, 5:41:18 PM4/28/21
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Bill--Thanks.  I also like your lobster pot warp deflector.  I take it that it prevents the lines from going in the opening between the top of the rudder and the hull, right?  If I had seen this before I put Ragtime back in the water this spring, I would have tried to make something similar, since we are going to Penobscot Bay this summer.  Best regards, Steve

Sam Foster

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Apr 29, 2021, 6:39:19 AM4/29/21
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Bill, That deflector is brilliant! 

Thank you,

Sam
Cahoots #44

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 5:41 PM, Stephen Babcock <si...@rcn.com> wrote:



Bill--Thanks.  I also like your lobster pot warp deflector.  I take it that it prevents the lines from going in the opening between the top of the rudder and the hull, right?  If I had seen this before I put Ragtime back in the water this spring, I would have tried to make something similar, since we are going to Penobscot Bay this summer.  Best regards, Steve

On 4/28/2021 12:23 PM, Bill Bowers wrote:
Here is the lower bearing solidly part of the hull itself.   Also note our 100% effective lobster pot line deflector which last summer shrugged off a half dozen lines in Maine snagged while sailing   

Best
Bill J42 #3
<image0.jpeg>

Bill Bowers

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Apr 29, 2021, 9:14:17 AM4/29/21
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Sam

Thanks much. 

A snippet of 1/2" Eglass sanded to shape and and permanently affixed with G Flex epoxy.  A definite candidate for lowest ever cost/benefit project.

Cheers
Bill #3

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