J/44 rudder bearings

[Chris Campbell]

I dropped Spice's rudder last weekend in order to change out the bearings, since the steering was stiff when loaded up, and it looked to me like there was play in the bearings. Imagine my surprise when I got the rudder out and found that the bottom bearing was a bushing! Or certainly appears to be.

Spice is on her second rudder, being among the many J/44's that switched to a deeper rudder early in their careers, and I got the shallower rudder with the boat. That rudder has a bottom bearing attached to a stainless sleeve on the rudder post (aluminum, based on what I've read of these boat's history and it's appearance I assume it's a Harken bearing). 

The rudder I took out came out with the same stainless sleeve, and I assumed that the bearing itself had simply stuck in the hull - but it really appears to be a composite (G10, maybe?) collar solidly attached to the hull.

Is it possible that when they put the "new" rudder in they chose to put a bushing rather than a roller or ball bearing in there?

If I'm right and there aren't moving parts that are seized hidden from my ability to see them then I have two choices - rig up a way to lubricate the bushing (run a grease tube from a grease gun down to a permanently attached fitting on the rudder tube and give it a few shots any time it's feeling sticky), or rout it out to a larger diameter and put a proper bearing (Jefa, no doubt) in it's place.

In case others have seen anything like this I'm attaching some photos. Inside the rudder tube from above, inside, and below, and of Owen Harren's bottom bearing - because it appears to be made of the same material as the bushing in my boat, which further confounds my deciding that I'm right and it's a bushing. It would be quite a mess if I started routing a hole to match the new bearing's size and discovered that it was not solid glass but full of rollers or balls!

My inclination is to go with the installation of a Jefa bearing, as I would really like to have helm feel upwind in a breeze, which I don't at all right now - it's completely locked in place once it's loaded up.

I'm interested in hearing from others who may have seen a bushing in a J/4x, or a mechanical bearing that looks like what I'm taking to be a bushing; and I'm interested in hearing whether or not boats with a good set of mechanical bearings in their rudder actually have good helm feel upwind in 15 knots - just in case what I'm after doesn't really exist, and I should put it back together! After all a solid bushing is a very low maintenance item, and highly unlikely to fail, ever, which has some appeal.

Thanks for any thoughts that you have!

[Chris Campbell]

The promised photos. I have more if anyone is interested enough just ask and I'll post.

From above:

From below - really can't see any way there is a moving part here:

From inside - primarily to show the woven texture of the surface, really looks like some kind of composite:

Owen's bearing - has that same woven appearance, but came out of the boat with the rudder and doesn't look like it's all one piece, at least to me:

[S/V Sweet Ruca]

Hi Chris,

We have had a good experience with the Jefa bearings. They are very good, smooth, no play, and have held up well. An expensive, but worthwhile upgrade. 

Surely lots of other variables contribute to helm feel as well, but we can drive upwind in almost any condition with as advertised “fingertip control.” 

Could you post a photo of your existing bearing/bushing so others can help identify it.

Curtis

J46 #12 Sweet Ruca

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[Chris Campbell]

I did post photos in a second message, let me know if they haven't come through. May have been too large for some inboxes, actually - four large photos.

That's great that you now have fingertip control most of the time - that's exactly what I'm hoping for, and your experience makes me believe it'll be worth it to take noisy and messy machinery to the bottom of the boat.

Again, if the photos don't come through let me know and I'll find another way - I can post them on Spice's website, for example. Should probably do that anyway.

[S/V Sweet Ruca]

Attached is the cad drawing of the Harken Lower bearing HC5029 which was in our J46, and the drawing of the Jefa that replaced it. It is the same as their J120 kit. It looks like yours is about 1 inch smaller OD.

It has been a long time since I saw the harken bearing in person, but I do seem to recall it being a grey plastic, having o-rings and that knurled finish. Once again, it's been years and it just "looks familiar."

That surely looks like a delrin insert into the hull, but I wouldn't take a saw to it yet without more research. I know zero about the 44 in this area, only about the 46, but could guess that TPI used the same molds for these areas of the boats over and over and the construction is similar, and maybe they used a spacer for a smaller bearing/shaft? Some 44 guys likely know this much, much, better than me and I would wait for one of them to chime in before cutting.

At least in the 46, it is solid glass around the lower rudder bearing and rudder tube area. Once again, don't take this as confirmation of your case though. Maybe sand away a bit more bottom paint around that area and get back to clean gelcoat for a better look. 

Also, if you switch to the Jefa's, be careful painting. Many yards don't know how to properly isolate these from metallic bottom paints. Attached is instructions for this as well.

Maybe take measurements and call PYI? Tell them I said hello :-)

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[Chris Campbell]

Thanks for those most helpful documents, Curtis, much appreciated!

I've gotten back to the boat and measured and it seems the tube on my boat is indeed smaller in diameter than on the 46's, and perhaps on the later 44's also (mine is mid-run, hull 33 of 68). And it seems that when they put the deeper rudder on they chose an insert rather than a roller or ball bearing unit, which seem very odd indeed - but I wasn't involved at the time, so all I can do is figure it out from here!

Jefa's solution is for me to cut a larger hole in the boat and glass in a correctly sized tube, then put their bearing into it. Daunting, but doable. I'm going to cast around a bit more before starting up the chainsaw (kidding, I think it'll be a template and flush trim router bits), but that's the direction I'm leaning at the moment. If anyone has opinions or encouragements, please feel free to send them along. I'll send photos of the progress as I go (it'll be awhile since there will be lag time after ordering bearings).

Cheers,

Chris

[Ed S]

Interesting. Looks almost like there was an insert placed into the rudder tube to allow fitting a smaller diameter bearing housing. Do you think that’s the case, or am I just misinterpreting the photos?

I’d once heard -- unconfirmed by J-Boat (i.e., Rod or Al) -- that my J/42 has the J/44 rudder construction. 

I’ve attached a drawing of the generic lower bearing I put in Ventus. It is a bit wider than yours, but not if there actually is an insert glassed into yours. 

e 

[William Stellin]

Interesting, when I had the lower bearing replaced in Spain the tech’s cut a huge hole in the bottom of the hull and glassed in  an aluminum tube and struts inside to support the tube which is the bearing’s housing. A gator is glued to the tube and the rudder post to keep water in the tube if there is any 

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From: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ed S <esi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 2:39:57 PM
To: J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [J/4X-owners] J/44 rudder bearings

 

I’m late to the party, but have attached the generic drawing for the lower bearing I put in my J/42.  It seems like it would work for your tube Chris. Jeffa can custom machine to tweak the size. In fact, they require the ID of the rudder tube to machine the housing to a close tolerance. 

I can’t recall who I heard it from, but I was once told that the J/42 rudder is essentially the 44 rudder, reused to expedite shipping of the first 42. I’m sure it was not Rod or Al who told me, but I’ve never asked them about it. Anyone else heard that?

Ed

On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 2:21:51 PM UTC-5 Chris Campbell wrote:

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[Chris Campbell]

"Looks almost like there was an insert placed into the rudder tube to allow fitting a smaller diameter bearing housing."

The insert is the bearing - just not a mechanical one. I've started hacking away at it, and still don't know what it's made of - it's many layers of some kind of cloth in some kind of resin. Certainly never would have worn out, but also wasn't low friction enough for my liking, so it's on it's way out.

"huge hole in the bottom of the hull and glassed in  an aluminum tube and struts inside to support the tube which is the bearing’s housing."

Aluminum tube! That surprises me, but I'm sure it works. Other than the aluminum, that's one of my options - glass in a new FRP tube for the bearing to go in. The hull seems to be about 1-1/4" thick where the tube exits, and the bearing is only 3" high, so much of the load will be straight into the hull, the rest cantilevered into it by a fillet and tabbing. Should be just as strong as what's there now, but more room for the self-aligning bearing.

Photo below of the bushing I'm carving out - anyone recognize it and know what it might be made of?

Assuming I don't just carve that out and put a non-self-aligning bearing into the existing rudder tube, I'll be cutting off the existing tube, enlarging the hole with a router and flush trim bit with a template sized to fit the new tube centred in the existing location, glassing in the new tube and replacing the stuffing box seal with a gaiter. Will post more photos and commentary as I go for posterity.

[Ed S]

Ah... that is an interesting install, but I’m no marine mechanic (although I play one over cocktails). It does look like the factory opening would take one of the Jeffa (or other) standard bearing sizes once you get the “housing” out. Good luck. Keep us updated. 

Ed

[Chris Campbell]

Long time no update, the project is rolling on, hopefully nearing completion.

I determined for sure that the bearing in the boat is a bushing, still don't really know what it was made of, but layers of fabric embedded in something - regardless, it's now destroyed and removed and I opted to go with a self-aligning Jefa 6T165-260 which required me to cut a big hole in the hull and glass in a new rudder tube. Top bearing is another self-aligning Jefa, this one a 7T40, which is a drop in replacement, sort of. But first the big hole in the boat:

That's the tube that has to go in, just before we routed out the hole. Other picture is the hole - and that's more or less where the project sits. the tube will be cut top and bottom to the correct dimensions tomorrow morning, and hopefully tomorrow afternoon after some interior surface prep we'll be able to glass it in. Quite a lot of glass called for - 1/2" over a large circle inside the hull. But there are large forces, and the last thing I want is to be reminded that I didn't make it strong enough at the worst moment possible :)

A question for the assembled wisdom: are our rudders floaters or sinkers? I ask because the old top bearing had set screws and there is a pin through the top of the rudder stock that keeps the rudder in the boat. The new bearing is self-aligning, and the rollers bear right on the stainless collar which is the top of the post. So no opportunity to secure a sleeve to the post, and the pin that goes through will bear on a surface that can potentially be shifting out of alignment under load. Regardless of bouyancy the amount of strain vertically will be small, but I'd still like to know that the rudder is: 1) staying in the boat; and 2) not experiencing increased friction caused by this new setup.

Thoughts?

[June Kendrick]

The new rudders float.  When the one broke at Race Week in 2017, they picked it up because it was floating.

[Chris Campbell]

Thanks June, that's good to know, and good to hear. It makes the installation easier to know there won't be downward force the majority of the time.

By way of update on our progress, we have the tube installed with just some finishing outside and in before the bearings are put in and ready for the return of the rudder. I'm moving from the original stuffing box to a gaiter to keep the ocean on the right side of the hull, so the rudder post's flat sides need to be made round in order to have the gaiter attach just under the quadrant, which in turn allows the rudder tube to extend as far above the waterline as possible. I'll be doing that today and am hoping to have the rudder back in place by the weekend, or early next week (Sail GP is having their first Halifax event, which is taking up quite a chunk of this coming weekend).

More photos below, and will follow up with final photos next week, I hope.

[Chris Campbell]

Job done, Spice is back in the water and - wow! - what a difference the roller bearings make. We were sailing upwind a little overpowered on Saturday with 25 degrees of heel and the helm felt the same as when we're sitting at the mooring. With the pleasing addition of being able to feel what was happening with the boat. I'm delighted.

I created a post on Spice's underused site with a collection of pictures and descriptions: Spice's rudder bearing replacement

And here's a shot of everything done just before reinstalling the quadrant, tiller arm, and rudder position sensor, showing the epoxy fillets to seal the gaiter, and how much more cluttered things get with cockpit drain hoses and exhaust back in place:

Job done, and I'm delighted.

[S/V Sweet Ruca]

Great work Chris! A big project! 

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[Ron Wilson]

Chris,  

I'm a bit late to the conversation but the rudder... I've seen the exact issue - and it took me 4 months to find a yard that would do the repairs!   I have to utilize a yard due to the location of the boat.  I can't get the time to be there to do the process.  One of the items I'm heading for is a "kit" from CCI in canada.  It's about a $10k kit that contains a class perfect "Carbon" version of the rudder - along with a Bearing set and all the other "parts" like a Hull Sleave - etc.  Currently - I've got little time on the "44" due to this issue...  but my arms are bulked up!   It's not a 2 finger turn at this point... it's 2 arms.   The "seller" is getting it repaired as part of our deal... so it's likely they use the cheapest of repairs.  My plan is to have the Carbon rudder in a couple years.

I did see the Ruca repair in Annapolis - and had I been aware - that they were that close to me... I would have gone over and assisted just to gain the experience.

The 44 and 46 use the same rudder.  Bearings are a catch can - Harken often.  Jeffa was a bit later I think.  The CCI kit covers all that.

I hope you survived the repairs...!  I'll let you know how our experience turns out - it might take over 6 months to get work scheduled at the yard or ride is currently in!  

Ron Wilson

r...@answergroup.net 

[Chris Campbell]

Hi Ron,

CCI is who I worked with for the bearings, they have been great. I actually bought a rudder from them for my last boat (an Abbott 36) and was very happy with it also, so I'm happy to recommend them to anyone. I think the carbon rudder for our boats is a great idea - I'd have considered it myself this year, but have to spread the projects out over a few years, and that one hasn't reached the top of the list just yet, as my existing one is in great shape.

It's hard to express what a change in the steering experience this has been - the helm is always light, and I can feel weather helm now, and water disturbances, etc - which just wasn't possible before. I'm delighted, and am sure that anyone with a similar starting point to mine will be also.

Cheers,

Chris