J/42 DC refrigeration upgrade

[Rod Deyo]

We're thinking of replacing the original Sea Frost engine driven refrigeration system with a Sea Frost BD 12V DC system. I'm interested in any feedback from the group, especially for installation locations and power usage experience.

We have a 100 A Balmar alternator and house battery capacity of 400Ah, along with three Solbian 137 solar panels (411 W nominal total peak capacity). The estimated current draw in the Pacific NW is probably about 60 Ah/day. Our other DC power usage lshould be minimal in comparison.

Rod Deyo
J/42 Northern Lights (#61)

[rers...@netscape.net]

Our J42, Cayenne came with this system installed, circa 2002, and still going strong.  The Danfoss compressor's just run and run.  In our boat the compressor is housed in a white metal enclosure about the size of a bread box (sorry for the dated comparison) that is tucked up under the aft head sink, completely impossible to access.  The  vent duct for the heat exchanger is run through the bulkhead into the aft locker.  The capillary and insulated refrigerant tubes are run under the toilet base, through the under stove mini-locker and under the aft edge of the ice box, bending up through its bottom to the cold plate installed on the aft wall of the fridge.

Being air cooled it works in an out of the water, but it needs to run a lot to stay cold.  I've been using it in tropical and semi-tropical climates for the last 12 years, burning between 80 and 100 amp hours a day in hot weather.  The fridge enclosure is not well insulated on the J42.  We cover the fridge lid with a silicone rubber pad which helps keep the cold in and makes kitchen work on top of the fridge easier and cleaner.  If you can figure out how to install an Isotherm SP system, which uses a heat exchanger connected to a thru-hull, like the sink drain, you'd be amazed at the efficiency.  The air cooled systems are not efficient, as air doesn't absorb heat as well as water.

R. Erskine  s/v Cayenne J42#65

[dsanfo...@gmail.com]

I have the same system and installation as described above on Cayenne on #55 truant. Two things I have done to improve the efficiency of the ice box have worked really well.

First, I had a custom ice box insulating blanket fabricated by Standout Yacht Fittings somewhere in the state of Washington,if memory serves. This was made to my measurements and rests on top of whatever you have on the shelf. If I has the effect of reducing the area inside the box that you have to cool while providing for easy access to the contents.

Second,Sea Frost makes a digital thermostat controller with a three position compressor/fan speed controller. I use it on the high speed setting when bringing the ice box down to temperature or whenever it is seeing a lot of action. At night I move it to low and the power consumption goes way down. The combination of the blanket and better control of the temperature setting has been meaningful compared to the original setup.

Dick Sanford
truant #55

[Alan Kanegsberg]

We too have that Seafrost unit. We put a divider in and one third of it is a freezer. In Maine it runs about 8 hours a day.  However,, the boat was in the Caribbean for four years and our unit has alternate water cooling that we do not use in Maine.

Alan J40 Atlantis

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[wbcu...@gmail.com]

We installed the seafrost trade winds XP which uses the larger bd50 compressor. It's installed on the shelf aft of the aft holding tank. Be aware that the seafrost holding plate has two sets of coils. You will need to shift to the smaller coils to use the DC system. We have both, though the engine driven system is redundant when the DC system is working. The insulation sucks. We had to cut a hole in the bulkhead fwd of the cold plate and replace the insulation there. Insulation is now aerogel from eBay. Well over a gallon of ice came out with the old insulation and the bulkhead was always dripping wet. I also added a spacer between the coldplate and the box to slow heat transfer.

[John Burnett]

We have the Sea Frost 12V BD and xBD for our J46's freezer and fridge. 
The insulation on the ice boxes is not very good.

We went with water cooled which helps.  The intake thru hull is forward
of engine.  The pump is in the engine compartment.  We have replaced the
pump twice in 12 years. The outlet is shared with the water maker.  It
would have been nice to share the water maker inlet also.

The compressors are mounted behind the aft holding tank.  The control
wires and coolant lines are run under the holding tank, thru and under
the aft head, under the stove up to the galley.  It is a long run when
you add new controls.

We added compressor speed controls to keep the current draw low at night
and add cooling when needed.  They work well.  Sea Frost now sells
combined thermostats and compressor speed controls.

Just this spring we emptied and filled the freon in the fridge and it
works much better.

We have 640 amp/hr house banks with 150 watts on the bimini and 100
(soon to be 150) watts on the main sail cover when anchored for a couple
days.

cheers,

John Burnett

J/46 Folie a Deux

[William Stellin]

I think it would be a mistake getting rid of the SeaFrost engine drive system for their DC system. The engine drive is 10 times more efficient than the air cooled DC system. One hour with the engine drive system while underway motoring will make ice from tap water at room temps. The DC system takes hours longer.
We have the SeaFrost 110volt electric AC shore assist compressor as well as the engine drive. While hooked up to shore power the fridge runs off of 110AC. At anchor we run the 110v AC system off of the inverter or run the engine drive system. Both systems have been in the boat since it was built in 1996 with no service whatsoever. One advantage of the 110V AC system over the DC is that we don’t have to depend on batteries that can fail.
The AC compressor is mounted on the bulkhead behind the aft head. This allows it to breath cool air. The exhaust heat it produces is ducted into the head behind the wet locker. The head is turned into a cozy warm drying room for anything that gets wet. In hot weather we open the head port and hatch, keep the door closed and all the heat is vented outdoors. The simplicity and beauty of the arrangement is wonderful. Getting up in the morning on a cool day here in MI and going into a warm head is a real joy.
While in the Med which can be unbearably hot (both air and water) we ran the engine drive at anchor for 1 hour around noon and 1 hour around 11pm. We did this for 8 years are are still using the exact same system.

Beware of making the mistake of overthinking and over engineering J/Boats.

Bill JAYWALKER. #6

Sent from my iPhone

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[Bernie Coyne]

Hi all:

 

I too had 110v compressor with engine drive for a Seafrost refrigerator and freezer on our J/46.  I had long conversations with Cleave Horton at Seafrost and in the end decided to rip out everything and go with 2 new BDXP AIR/WATER COOLED systems – one each for the refrig and freezer.  What drove me to this decision was the following:

 

1. We wanted consistent temperatures in the fridge and freezer rather than the freeze/thaw very wide temp swings of the previous holding plates.
2. We wanted 12volt power so that the batteries would power the systems when we wanted to leave the boat on a mooring unattended for a few days.
3. We added 4 x 100 watt solar panels to keep the batteries charged.

 

I did all the refrig and freezer work myself over the winter of 2016/2017 with lots of phone and moral support from Cleave.  I also installed the solar panels at the same time.   From my experience I have the following to share:

 

1. The temperatures are amazingly stable in the fridge and freezer.   The digital thermostats have nice visual readouts and indicators that indicate when the systems are running.
2. The amount of wiring and plumbing in the new system is so much reduced over the old 110v and eng driven.   Plus the new cold plates are so much thinner we actually have significantly more room especially in the freezer.
3. We have seen that we can go for at least 3 days with full freezer and refrigerator running, powered only by the solar panels.   If we were only running the refrigerator we could probably last a week.  One of the best practices I have heard is to run the generator once in the morning to bring the batteries up to full charge and then let the solar panels do their work for the rest of the day and night.  This keeps the generator run time to a minimum yet keeps it in good running shape.
4. Now we can leave the boat on a mooring for several days while we go exploring on land while the freezer and fridge keep the foods safe.  That was our primary goal and we achieved it with 12 systems and solar panels.

 

Hope this is helpful information.  I am happy to share documentation and anything I learned from this project.

 

Bernie Coyne

s/v J/46 Mystic Rose

 

 

 

Bernie Coyne

Email: bernie...@verizon.net

Cell/text: 781-789-0762

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[Dick York]

Bernie-

I have been thinking about how to improve my refrig/freezer system, and it sounds like you have a good solution.

What is the water temps where you sail?  Are you in the tropics, or up north?

Thank You ... Dick York, J/46 #9, ARAGORN

At sea, I learned how little a person needs, not how much. (Robin Lee Graham)

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[Bernie Coyne]

Hi Dick:

 

Sorry I am out cruising Long Island Sound and have been delayed getting to my emails 😊

 

We cruise most of the time up in Maine where we keep the boat and the waters are generally cooler than in southern New England.  However we have used the systems all last summer when the temps reached the 90’s and the fridge and freezer held their temps.  We have the water cooling option but did not need to use it.  I think the real issue for the J/46’s is the poor insulation for the refrigerator.  This causes the system to work harder and run more often than optimum.  Did you know that the 46’s have vacuum panels rather than foam?  I learned this from some schematics Cleave Horton had for the Seafrost systems they installed at the J/Boat factory.  So this means that you can not drill into the sides of the refrigerator or you will likely pierce the panel.  It also means we might have blown seals on our vacuum panels due to time, which then makes the insulation a mute point.

 

A friend with a 52’ yawl and the similar but smaller BD system, used it successfully in the Caribbean and holding the temperatures was no problem.

 

I am happy to send you the plumbing, wiring or any other details.  Just let me know.

 

Cheers,

Bernie

 

Bernie Coyne

Email: bernie...@verizon.net

Cell/text: 781-789-0762

 

From: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Dick York
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 1:25 PM
To: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [J/4X-owners] J/42 DC refrigeration upgrade

 

Bernie-

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[Jim Brainard]

Bernie.   Thanks for sharing your insight and experience.   

I am planning a DC refrigeration conversion on our new to us J46. I had not considered that the vacuum panel insulation makes introducing new holes into the box problematic.  I assume, that the installation of the seafrost system at the factory avoiding drilling through the vacuum panels.  

I noted that you offered to forward the diagrams you obtained during your install to those of us switching to DC refrigeration.  Could you please send a set to me?

Thanks

Jim Brainard.   Brainwaves J46 hull#18.  

JIm Brainard.   Sent from my iPhone

[Bernie Coyne]

Hi Jim:

 

I have since misplaced the sketch of the factory vacuum panel installation but I recall that it was on the 2 long sides of the fridge.  The shorter sides were probably just foam.  The original holding plates were bolted onto the forward short side where there was no vacuum panel.   And remember there were NO vacuum panels used for the freezer compartment – there it was just foam.

 

In any case when I installed the new cold plate in the refrigerator, I first sealed the old mounting holes with foam insulation and then covered the holes with some MarineTex.   Then I used Weld Mount studs to mount the plate http://weldmountsystems.com/products-fasteners-stainless-studs.php   These fasteners along with the Weld Mount ST-1030 adhesive, hold the plate without drilling holes through the box http://weldmountsystems.com/products-adhesives.php  The adhesive sets in 12 min so you only have to support the plate for a brief time.

 

I worked with Cleave Horton at Seafrost on sizing the new custom cold plates.  You can use my attached cold plate drawings as a sizing guide but I would work with Cleave to confirm.  I also attached a parts list.  And finally I have attached a PDF of the project that includes the companion solar panel project wiring.

 

I am sure you have lots of questions still so feel free to ask.

 

Cheers,

Bernie

J/46 Mystic Rose hull #10

 

 

Bernie Coyne

Email: bernie...@verizon.net

Cell/text: 781-789-0762

 

[G. Jan van Heek]

Bernie,

You are a genius!!

Jan 

Sent from my iPhone

<Mystic Rose J46 Refrigeration & Solar wiring v7.pdf>

<Bernie Coyne J46 12 6 16 Refrigerator revision. (drawings - refrig FINAL).pdf>

<Bernie Coyne J46 11 29 16 (drawings from Cleave - freezer FINAL).pdf>

<Seafrost parts list and pricing 2016.png>

[Rod Deyo]

Many thanks for all the responses! Our existing engine driven system has a leaky cold plate that has to be replaced, so upgrading to a DC system seems a better option (a crack near one of the plate mounting holes was "repaired" a couple of years ago in Long Beach by welding the aluminum). 

After we get back from a upcoming trip to the Broughtons, we're planning to go ahead and install a BDxp compressor, with optional water cooling, on the shelf behind the aft holding tank. The compressor air intake and discharge will be in the cockpit locker. 

There is an option of drilling a 4" hole from the aft head for cooler air, but we won't do this unless the ambient air temperature is too high. The total volume of air in the cockpit locker and stern should be sufficient not to require additional ventilation.

The water cooling won't be plumbed while we're in the NW (the extra cost is small but it provides a future option if needed).

We'll use the ETTsc thermostat for efficient temperature and power control. It should fit where the existing compressor control is mounted in the galley.

The remaining open design question is with adding a desired freezer box (it would also act as the icebox cold plate). We've been trying out various freezer box sizes and configurations. The icebox shelf, sliding shelf, and lower icebox taper constrain the options (as well as the need to have room for an essential 6-pack of cold beer).

Ideally we'd mount a freezer box forward at the top of the icebox for more uniform cooling. The alternative is to just go with a cold plate similar to what we have now.

I'd like to hear from any J/42 owners with a freezer box on its size and mounting location.

Thanks again all!

Rod Deyo 

J/42 Northern Lights (#61)

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[William Stellin]

While there is plenty of volumn in the stern area where you will mount the compressor, there is little ventilation. The air will get very hot if the waste heat stays in the locker area. So hot, it will really affect the performance. Think about it. Heated air will be trying to cool. We drilled the 4 inch hole for the waste heated air to be ducted into the aft head. This way the compressor is using cool air not recirculated hot air. The added benefit is a drying room in the head for your foul weather gear and cloths that get wet, to say nothing about a cozy warm head on a cool morning. 5 minutes of drilling and less than $10 of dryer ducting and you are done. 

Bill #6

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[Ed S]

A belated addition to the conversation, but I saw a significant drop in power consumption after fitting my dc Seafrost unit with fridge monitor that runs a defrost cycle (https://stainlesslobster.com ). You have to deal with the runoff from the defrost cycle (which you can adjust the interval of), but still less of a hassle than manually deicing the plate. I found that an iced up plate was the biggest culprit in increased power consumption, and I was chipping away a layer of ice at least once per week I warmer, more humid climes.

As a bonus, you get historical data for temperature, and hours and % run-time.

- Ed
J/42 Ventus #68

[rers...@netscape.net]

Re:  Seafrost refrigeration on J42:  A couple of years ago somebody on the previous yahoo J4X message board identified a source of refrigerator hatch gaskets.  We ordered and installed one of these on J42 Cayenne #65, and have enjoyed the benefits of reduced frost build-up ever since.  Frost on the holding plate was a major nuisance before the new gasket.  We still use a sturdy windshield ice scraper on the plate to reduce frost build-up, but if refrigerator open times can be kept at a minimum, the plate frost stays light for weeks at a time, even in 90 degree weather.  On the plate side bottom of the box, temps are below freezing (ice cream relatively soft) and the forward side of the box stays in the low 40's.  We use a remote wireless temp sensor, communicating with a Meade Scientific weather station as temp read out from inside the box.  The Meade station also keeps tracks of barometric pressure and provides a rudimentary 24 hr. rain or shine prediction, with ambient temp and humidity.  Original Seafrost air cooled system still cranking after 16 years of seasonal use.  Can't complain, but it still soaks up a lot of amp hours in a day.

Reed Erskine  s/v Cayenne  #65  Kusadasi, Turkey

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:16:35 AM UTC-4, Rod Deyo wrote:

[John Burnett]

I reset the plate thermostat to 33 degrees when I wake up and then reset
it back to normal when I run the genset or start the engine.

A sponge in front of the door collects any moisture.

Kinda low tech, but it seems to keep the fridge plate defrosted.

John

[Bernie Coyne]

Here is the source for refrigerator gaskets – custom made to specific dimensions: https://www.coolergaskets.com/gaskets-by-profile/

 

Bernie Coyne

Email: bernie...@verizon.net

Cell/text: 781-789-0762

 

--

[Ed S]

Reed,

That gasket sounds like a good upgrade.  The fridge top remains level with the counter surface after install of the gasket?  Do you recall the source for the gasket?

Thanks,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

s/v Ventus, #68

--

[rers...@netscape.net]

Hi Ed,

It's been a few years since our gasket replacement, so the source doesn't come readily to mind, but it must be in the message board archives from when it was on Yahoo. The new gaskets mounted with contact cement, and the lid was even with the counter, but over the years has sagged a bit.  Still a good seal though.  Checking on-line just now there's a place called BA Refrigeration that seems to supply cruising sailors with gaskets.  We also cover the counter top and box lid with two layers of 3/16" silicone rubber sheet.  It makes a good kitchen work surface, non-skid, heat resistant and cleans up easily.  It's sized a little big so messes can be sponged up over the fiddle and cleared quickly.  It adds insulation to the fridge, and rolls back to access the hatch lids.  Trying to do kitchen work on the naked surface with the lid seams and hinges is a nightmare.

Good Luck,

Reed Erksine s/v Cayenne

[William Stellin]

Go to coolergaskets.com

Bill. #6

Sent from my iPhone

[William Stellin]

I think it is profile 048

Bill #6

Sent from my iPhone

[Conrad Deeter]

Correct - Cooler Gaskets.com – profile # 48 –size 13”x 14 3/8” x 13”

 

I also replaced a couple of years ago.

 

Conrad

 

From: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of William Stellin
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 10:35 AM
To: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com