Upwind Sail Combination

[Sean O'Connor]

Hi everyone - Lori and I recently bought hull #10 Event Horizon from Owen and Trish. We will head south from Rhode Island this weekend to her new home port in Annapolis. We will transit down Long Island Sound down East River to start.

Question: forecast could find me in 15-20kt++ headwinds in 3-5ft seas. Sails available are all in good shape: 142%, 135%, 107% Genoa’s.  Mainsail has two reefs.

Talking this thru with Owen, once overpowered, he favors sailing on 142% alone, as it is heavily built and well shaped. Alternative is mainsail alone. 

Not having any J-40 experience, wondering what other sail combo’s group finds work well to make best headway upwind in seas without being too overpowered. 

Thank you for your thoughts.

Many thanks,

Sean

[rers...@netscape.net]

Sounds like a project for a masochist, but if you must,  go with main only.  You must also transit Hell Gate on a tight schedule.  It'd be easier to go outside, but it's pretty early in the season.  Good luck.

Reed Erskine J42 #65 Cayenne

[Sean O'Connor]

Thanks Reed.

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On Apr 22, 2021, at 6:36 AM, 'rers...@netscape.net' via J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Bill Bowers]

I would opt for the #3 on the foil as well. 142 is too big for gnarly windward sailing.  Headsail alone causes lee helm and degraded windward performance, and the main stabilizes the mast. 

Bill #3

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On Apr 22, 2021, at 6:44 AM, Sean O'Connor <sean.oc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Reed.

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[Sweet Ruca]

The best sail for that forecast may be the Yanmar.

Go with the most flexible sail configuration you have available. 

I’d prefer the #3 and mainsail to make VMG if actually sailing. 

If the big genoa is a reefable cruising type that may be a good bet, especially if the #3 is a nice carbon race sail. 

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[Tom Keffer]

#3, single reef in the main, lots of halyard, lots of backstay.

Prepare to get wet. 

[Sean O'Connor]

Good thoughts. Thanks Bill 

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On Apr 22, 2021, at 7:40 AM, Bill Bowers <wfb0...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would opt for the #3 on the foil as well. 142 is too big for gnarly windward sailing.  Headsail alone causes lee helm and degraded windward performance, and the main stabilizes the mast. 

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[Sean O'Connor]

Thanks Tom. 

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On Apr 22, 2021, at 8:21 AM, Tom Keffer <tke...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Bill Bowers]

Actually the Yanmar with a flat bladed single reef main allows very effective and less rolly climbing uphill for deliveries at AWA of 10-20 deg.  Saves on fuel and crew wear and tear.

Bill #3

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[Sean O'Connor]

Thanks Bill

Main is nicely shaped for that combo. Good point on making distance good.  

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[Joseph Ruzzi]

Sean,

Using the engine to provide upwind drive is a good suggestion.  If you opt for pure sailing, I would agree with an earlier suggestion for headsail furled to 100% or less, and a reefed main.    Is your new J/40 a shoal keel or deep draft?   If shoal, one lesson I learned with Spada is to keep the heel angle down.   When going upwind, with a high heel, the shoal keel doesn't provide enough lateral area/resistance and the boat will slide to leeward.   By keeping her on her feet, you'll make much less leeway.   Use traveler, backstay and reefing to depower the main.

Also, where are you keeping Tenacious in Annapolis?   Both Spada and another J/40, Ragtime owned by Steve Babcock, are on Whitehall Creek.   Let's meet when you bring her to her new home port.  

Safe travels!

Joe

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[William Stellin]

I’d go with the 107% jib and a full main until you have to reef it. A bigger genoa partially rolled up to reef it doesn’t set well and is hard on the sail. While J/42’s sail well on main alone, you really need a jib for balance and more speed. 

Bill #6

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On Apr 22, 2021, at 6:03 AM, Sean O'Connor <sean.oc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi everyone - Lori and I recently bought hull #10 Event Horizon from Owen and Trish. We will head south from Rhode Island this weekend to her new home port in Annapolis. We will transit down Long Island Sound down East River to start.

[Sean O'Connor]

Joe - thanks for this.

She is deep draft. Was re-engined with Westerbeke in 2015 - manually polished fuel tank recently and appears relatively free of debris.

I was able to find a slip at Mears Marina tho paying thru nose as it is a bit oversized for J40. But was late to game so thrilled with location at least. Can adjust next year.

Absolutely look forward to connecting soon!

As ever,

Sean

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[Sean O'Connor]

Thanks Bill.  I lean towards balanced rig also especially in any kind of sea. 

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[Joseph Ruzzi]

Sean,

In your research, did you find the https://j40sailors.com/ website?   There's a ton of good info there about our boats.

Joe

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[tree...@xs4all.nl]

"lots of backstay"is mentioned. What max level (PSI or Bar) are you guys working with ?

Wouter J42#5

Op donderdag 22 april 2021 om 16:12:38 UTC+2 schreef jmru...@gmail.com:

[Sean O'Connor]

Joe - I did, thanks.

Couldn’t find a discussion quite like this, but a ton of great info - some of the folks that took time to explain in detail with pictures what they had done is awesome!  Hell, I could even understand it!  :)

Great resource, for sure.

Thanks again,

Sean

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[Joseph Ruzzi]

Related to Sean's question about heavy-air upwind sailing, did all J40 and J/42 rigs come fitted with checkstays?   And, did you keep them and use them?   Spada came with checkstays, but the previous owner took off the block and tackle assemblies, and used shock-cord to keep the stainless upper section out of the way, tied to the toerail.   He said he only used them for offshore passages to keep the mast from pumping.   For the Chesapeake, I had them taken off completely when I had a rigger go up the rig for other work.  However, this summer, I plan to sail Spada to Narragansett and Buzzards Bays.   I've considered having a new set of uppers made up with Spectra/Dyneema line to reduce weight aloft, but wondered whether anyone has actually needed them offshore.

Joe

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[Al Goethe]

I occasionally use the check stays on our J/46 to increase tension on the forestay while still keeping the main at full shape. 

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Al Goethe

On Apr 22, 2021, at 09:49, Joseph Ruzzi <jmru...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[William Stellin]

They didn’t come as original equipment and were not even offered as a factory option on my boat hull #6. We have 2 Atlantic crossings and several gale conditions and never felt the need for them. I adhere to Ockams rule. Keep it simple. 

Bill #6

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On Apr 22, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Joseph Ruzzi <jmru...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[William Stellin]

We don’t have a gauge. We use a ruler taped to the unit with marks where we want the back stay for different points of sail and conditions.  

Bill #6

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Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 10:26:18 AM
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Subject: Re: [J/4X-owners] Upwind Sail Combination

 

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[Joseph Ruzzi]

Al,

The J/40 is a masthead rig, with the checkstays attaching much lower -- between the first and second spreaders.  I wouldn't think they have much effect on forestay tension/sag.   The backstay provides much more tension to the entire rig.

Joe

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[Jim Grady]

Sean and other east coast sailors- 

If you are planning to use the C & D canal headed to the Chesapeake from up north- after a full day sail up the Delaware river don’t be tempted to anchor near Reedy Island. There is a rock wall that was not on my chart plotter and has no marking in the water that totaled  my new to me Beneteau 473 in 2019. That rock wall has had over 100 incidents, totaled numerous boats and claimed one life and yet the army corps, the coast guard and DNR refuse to mark it. 

On Apr 22, 2021, at 8:21 AM, Joseph Ruzzi <jmru...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Bill Bowers]

Joe

I always use the checkstays when our genoa staysail is unfurled in heavy air or inside the Yankee for our double head rig.  Also when the seas are up.  Belt and suspenders sailing.

Bill #3

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[Sean O'Connor]

Holy smokes - great insight - thanks Jim!!

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On Apr 22, 2021, at 12:06 PM, Jim Grady <shre...@hotmail.com> wrote:



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[Dick York]

Sean-

I have a J/46, but have sailed a friend's J/42 a fair bit too.

I would go with the #3 (107%) and a main that I could reef up and down if the wind changes.  This avoids jib changes, which cruisers, especially short-handed ones, abhor.

This is the rig we use in the Caribbean, when reaching from island to island in 15-25 knot trades.

As you are going upwind on my LIS, I recommend you run the Yanmar too, when you cannot point as high as you want.  Just keep the same main and roll the jib if the AWA is too tight for the #3.

If you want to sail, then favor the CT shoreline in anything out of the N.  With westerlies, use the whole sound, but SW, keep more toward the Long Island shore.  Never go into Smithtown Bay.  Watch the tides if you are not under power, the tide against or with you in LIS can vary as to whether you are near points or mid-Sound. 

Obviously, you need to time the tides at Hell Gate and down the East River to be with you.  You can leave the western Sound about an hour or two ahead of the turn at Hell Gate.  If you need to stop and wait, and are near Larchmont YC, go in and take a guest mooring there; tell them you are a friend of mine.  It is an easy shot down through NYC from Larchmont (or Manhasset, or City Island).  

Having done the trip through NYC many times, you should not have a problem if you keep an eye on the charts.  Close your companionway before going through Hell Gate; we nosed-under a boat there and poured water back down the decks (it was an old IOR boat though).  No real harm, but you don't want water below.  Past Hell Gate there are no problems.  If you get to Hell Gate in the first hour or two after the tide turns your way, no problems.  

Keep a good eye out for tugs and ferries, you should be able to move to one shore whenever you encounter one. The tugs can be nasty, although most are good.  Just keep out of everyone's way.  

When leaving NY, you can hide out behind Sandy Hook if you think the wind will switch from any easterly direction back to NW.  I helped a friend last fall, and we hid out for 3 hours waiting for a front to come through, and then had a great ride down the coast to Cape May.

I have done the reach down the coast in a light-medium easterly (15-20 knots), just keep a bit more offshore to have some searoom.

If you are going down the Jersey Coast at night, you may see many fishermen.  They have very bright work lights pointing aft, and frequently look like they are all zig-zagging around randomly.  But you can figure out a way through them, or around them with not too much difficulty.  Just assume they do not see you or would not care if they did.  (They probably would care, but they do have right of way).

Unless you are in a big easterly, you can cut through the inside channels around Cape May, saving several hours.  The charts are pretty good, and the bottom does not change that much..  Keep one eye on the chart and the other on your depth sounder. 

The Delaware River is, well, the Delaware River.... keep a good watch and try not to get bored between ship passings.

If you get to the C&D Canal at night, you may have swift currents and far too many lights to find the Canal entrance.  Use your plotter (remembering the lag if you are turning in current), and motor with enough speed to have control over the current, but not too much more.  Once in the Canal, life turns very nice.

Good Luck.

Dick York  J/46 #9 ARAGORN

 "...get back aboard the boat where everything seems to make better sense."  M. Roye

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 6:03 AM Sean O'Connor <sean.oc...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Joseph Ruzzi]

Jim,

Thanks.   I'll remember not to try anchoring there.  When I've done the C&D before, both on our J/30 and other boats, we usually stop over at either Chesapeake City, Schaeffer's Canal House or Summit North.  The last time, we arrived at Chesapeake City at dead low tide...as a thunderstorm hit!   We got stuck in the mud just off the Army Corps of Engineers dock.  We were relatively protected by the town around us, so just put down the anchor and waited it out.

Joe

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[Al Goethe]

Yes, that’s just a bit different from the J/46, although we have something like a 15/16 rig - very close to mast head. The biggest benefit is increasing the main camber for mor power. Apart from the stabilization in heavy conditions, of course. 

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Al Goethe

On Apr 22, 2021, at 10:21, Joseph Ruzzi <jmru...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[John Burnett]

Is the rock wall the dike that extends south of Reedy Island?  Or is it somewhere else?  

I usually anchor in the Chesapeake City.   There seems to be more water next the Army dock and further back in the basin.

On Apr 22, 2021, at 9:13 AM, Jim Grady <shre...@hotmail.com> wrote:



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[Stephen Babcock]

Regarding that anchorage in the Delaware Bay behind Reedy Island, there is a narrow but well marked entrance into the anchorage, south of the island itself, with a quick flashing red #2 on the north side of the entrance, and a green #1 on the south side.  You can get into the anchorage using this entrance, and then turn north to get behind the island itself.  This protects you from the swell of the Bay and the wake of the many passing cargo ships.  You must use this entrance, since, as noted  by others, there is a very long ledge, just under the surface, extending both to the north and to the south of this entrance.

Steve Babcock J/40 Ragtime hull #49.

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[John Plominski]

I would just wait for a better forecast with it not blowing on the nose...  otherwise #3 and a main reefed to whatever keeps the boat at <12 deg of heel.  Motorsailing with a tight main and traveler all the way up is a pretty efficient "just get there" mode when the breeze isnt right.  If its choppy then you're better off sailing or just waiting (like I said) for a better window.  If you have to go, leave at first light and make all the miles you can under power before the breeze and seastate kick up.  

Drew J/40#79