J42 owners manual

[jeff thayer]

Anybody have a PDF of a J/42 owners manual they would be willing to share?   

[Tom Keffer]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B78LDnqhlSk_UmZxUW56VjhRUGM/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-8CotCadVjs5RNdqLtcNrYg

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:44 AM jeff thayer <jeff.fo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anybody have a PDF of a J/42 owners manual they would be willing to share?   

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[jeff thayer]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. 

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[jeff thayer]

Next question:   Does anybody have a listing of running rigging type, size, length for the J/42?  

[WSC]

here you go....

[Robert Kowalski]

Just wondering after pondering this list, is that the phrf you all are getting for your boats? One-twenty seems low to me, seeing when I had the 32 it was rated 114 and my 130 i think is rated 20 or something close.

Bob

Sailing a course less traveled
Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac

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> <J42 Rigging & Spec 12-96.pdf><J42 RR SPEC.pdf>

[Albert Bossar]

My PHRF 87 on the Chesapeake Bay. This is the US Sailing publish PHRF lists.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CF05EC30-7248-414E-BDE9-10336A264262%40charter.net.

[Fred deNapoli]

We’re in MA Bay and the traditionally anti-J/Boat rating pattern is alive and well.  The longest standing member of the handicap committee is a non-J/Boats yacht broker (shocking).  Numerous industry pros including sail makers and yacht designers have been on the rating committee over the years as well.  The running joke has always been, PHRF = Political Handicap Racing Fleet, or Performance Handicapping for Relatives and Friends.

Our PHRF is 63 racing and 78 cruising.  In anything under 15-18 we’re hopelessly uncompetitive.  Our class is typically all super light air flyers besides us and maybe one more actual cruising boat.  Our frustration is not new, for decades cruising boats in typically light air venues like Marblehead and the Chesapeake have been slaughtered off like cattle since PHRF is a one and done rating rule.  You get ONE rating for all wind conditions and it is your strongest range….in the case of actual cruising boats it’s heavy air.  Which is almost never in the center of the summer (July and August).  

In stark contrast ORRez offers between 3-4 rating bands based on average velocity.  So, in light air your handicap is vastly more favorable if you’re a real cruising boat.  As the pressure increases your rating moves to the point where it’s not far from the PHRF rating in 17 or 18 knots.  Night and day.  

Sadly, the biggest offshore regatta in M’head this summer, the Ted Hood Regatta, has fallen to a loud minority who felt that ORRez was unfair and forced them to abandon the ORRez rating that had made the event so successful for the past 4 yrs.  A certain number of influential sailors with remarkably favorable PHRF ratings grandfathered in screamed and yelled about how unfair the actual fact-based ORRez was.  Using highly developed formulas based upon both historical performance and vessel performance related specs, free from politics and favoritism, the truth was not something they were willing to accept.  99% of this group have heavily invested in boats with great light air performance and they’ve become very comfortable with this huge advantage in the overwhelming propensity of events in this wind range.

We should all be lobbying for more ORRez events, and shunning PHRF except for a fun pursuit race, charity events, etc., where simplicity is key and accessibility a high priority.  

On Aug 5, 2022, at 8:52 AM, Albert Bossar <abo...@gmail.com> wrote:

My PHRF 87 on the Chesapeake Bay. This is the US Sailing publish PHRF lists.

<image.png>

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[William Stellin]

Your numbers are way off. Depending on the region you are rated and sail in, PHRF will be between 66 and 89. This encompasses roller furling credits no spin racing etc. we rate 78 in Lake Mich PHRF
BILL #6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 5, 2022, at 8:34 AM, Robert Kowalski <rc...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> Just wondering after pondering this list, is that the phrf you all are getting for your boats? One-twenty seems low to me, seeing when I had the 32 it was rated 114 and my 130 i think is rated 20 or something close.

>
> Bob
>
> Sailing a course less traveled
> Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Aug 4, 2022, at 4:39 PM, 'WSC' via J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> here you go....
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 10:49:04 AM UTC-4 jeff.fo...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Next question: Does anybody have a listing of running rigging type, size, length for the J/42?
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:58:09 PM UTC-7 jeff thayer wrote:
>> Thank you, thank you, thank you.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:46 AM Tom Keffer <tke...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F0B78LDnqhlSk_UmZxUW56VjhRUGM%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing%26resourcekey%3D0-8CotCadVjs5RNdqLtcNrYg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C455371d501cc46cb927708da76decba4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637952996512692444%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=Ur%2B%2FQAENpHglFqMSRamOO%2BA1Mx81ulpfV%2FPd4eOlGTA%3D&amp;reserved=0

>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:44 AM jeff thayer <jeff.fo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anybody have a PDF of a J/42 owners manual they would be willing to share?
>>
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>> <J42 Rigging & Spec 12-96.pdf><J42 RR SPEC.pdf>
>

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[jmruzzi2]

I haven't raced in a bunch of years, but was very active in J/30 one-desgn racing for a long time, and was on the CBYRA One-Design committee.   During my time I saw a lot of the skulduggery mentioned above.  Another of the techniques was to buy a brand new design every few years.  That would allow them to get a very favorable rating when there was NO performance data ...just a swag.  Then when performance data did become available and the rating ratcheted down, they'd sell it and be onto the next new, untested design.

Joe

Sent from my Galaxy

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[Tom Keffer]

PHRF of 63 does sound extreme (ours is 72). 

Naturally, any rating system that uses more data points as input will capture relative boat performance better than one that doesn't. 

PHRF is very poor at capturing big differences in boat design. If you're going to race a Melges 24 in light air under PHRF, you're going to get killed.

Having said all that, I don't think PHRF is wildly off the mark. While we would never beat a Melges in light air, we are very competitive against other displacement boats. For example, we have lots of J/105s (rate 92) around here, and lots of light air, and we don't give them up anything. So, in the end, I'd say more important is how the RC sets up the classes.

What can be an issue is that the J/42 is kind of old-fashioned in its sail plan. To sail to your rating, you need lots of headsails and lots of spinnakers, all with complicated running rigging. That makes it expensive and requires a lot of time on the water compared to simpler boats.  

PHRF is a simple system. If you want something absolutely fair, race one-design.

-tk

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[WSC]

Can't help but jump in on this, since I race our 42 on beer can nights, when the NH seacoast breeze is rarely above 8-10 kts.  I tend to agree with Fred's comments.  My base rating (Carbon Mast, no rec handicap) is 66 racing.  When I bought hull #1, originally Gannett, John Knowles told me that when Rod and Bob Johnstone built this boat, it rated 120 the first year.  See enclosed for the plaque still mounted on my aft head door.  They cleaned up with that rating, so not totally shocking the PHRF committee's did some "adjusting".  I race against a couple of Tripp 36's (78), J105's (90), J35 (117) and a custom C&C 42 (87) and they all carry big 155 genoa's and crush us in light air.   But when it blows 15+ we are very competitive.  I would think the fairest rating for the 42 would be in the 85-95 range.  66-78 ratings require a lot of sail inventory to be competitive over a period of time.   Not what the boat was originally designed for I don't believe. 

Sean C   VIDA  Hull #1.

[Robert Kowalski]

When I wrote “low” I was thinking “advantaged" seeing my 32 was 114 and a Bristol 41.1 being 114 also and how unusual for a j/boat to be under rated. Water line alone tells you its quicker than a 32.

That being said I think what happens with J/boats is the buyers of them tend to be more advanced than your more “shits and giggle” sailors and is taken into account when being rated hence, my surprise when I saw the 120 rating. Now a rating in the 60s or 70s you’d have to be racing against some pretty crappy sailors to ever see gold and I feel your pain my brothers. Something in the 90s would be fairer I think for even the more advanced sailor.

Now the yarn:

Awhile back I was skipper on a Graves Constellation owned by a MIT physics professor our crew was filled with people who sailed all their lives all physics grads one had something to do with the math for gps and another developed the math for cl (wing math) oh and a Nobel prize winner. Needless to say we never had a loss. People were up in arms how unfair our rating was, our simple retort was “our crew has 150+ years experience”. Word got around others bought constellations well groomed sailors, one an olympic coach another America’s cup sailor, one guy has several world titles in various classes, we upped the game. They (constellations) now have their own class, own start and its very competitive.

That boat I was skipper on doesn’t win so much any more but a strong second. Now I’d like to think thats because I’m no longer racing but truth be told, the one boat that the olympic guy owns is loaded with ringers like Kenny Reed (at times) and North sails development team. That and maybe how old the crew is the average age being closer to 80 than 70 now.

Wednesday afternoon racing I doth think is taken to seriously its just for fun maybe up your abilities nothing more.

Me, I simply did it in my search for that philosopher stone of sailing, I’ll write when I find it…



bob

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[Fred deNapoli]

Hi Jeff

Where you able to get spin sheet dimensions?  I'm looking for a set of tethered and spliced asymmetrical spinnaker sheets.

Fred

On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 10:49:04 AM UTC-4 jeff.fo...@gmail.com wrote:

[Fred deNapoli]

Thanks so much!

[William Stellin]

I think the J/42 is plenty competitive even with our local ratings especially if we stick to jib and main sections. We have been on the podium fully crewed, double handed, buoy, and distance racing in light and heavy air. One of the requirements is keep the boat light except for required crew. I don’t like our LMPHRF rating and have challenged it to no avail over the past 26 years. Despite the rating we still do well.
Bill#6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 5, 2022, at 1:31 PM, Robert Kowalski <rc...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> When I wrote “low” I was thinking “advantaged" seeing my 32 was 114 and a Bristol 41.1 being 114 also and how unusual for a j/boat to be under rated. Water line alone tells you its quicker than a 32.

>>>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F0B78LDnqhlSk_UmZxUW56VjhRUGM%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing%26resourcekey%3D0-8CotCadVjs5RNdqLtcNrYg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C4e78bf82964145016d6b08da7708577f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637953174962092834%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=AxFx08NzkfYUfVdjEEKJ4Td43UBcsDlTqJ%2FnZ%2FmoNbI%3D&amp;reserved=0

>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:44 AM jeff thayer <jeff.fo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Anybody have a PDF of a J/42 owners manual they would be willing to share?
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> <J42 Rigging & Spec 12-96.pdf><J42 RR SPEC.pdf>
>>>
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