J/44 vs J/46

[jeff thayer]

Looking for experienced opinions contrasting and comparing the suitability of a J/44 vs J/46 for use as a cruising boat.  

It appears the hull shape is similar, interior layout is similar, weights are similar, keels are different, rig is quite different, but sail area is similar.  

thoughts?

[Bernie Coyne]

Hi Jeff:

 

I went through the same evaluation of both boats, before we settled on our J/46.  Here are some quick notes – my opinion only:

 

• The J/46 is essentially the more modern technology and cruising version of the J/44.  They have basically the same hull with the J/46 being extended slightly, providing a small swim platform.  The J/46 hull uses the scrimp system which eliminates voids while the J/44 is older balsa-cored construction.
• The J/44 has a deep keel for racing while most J/46’s have a shoal draft although a few have the deep keel.  The J/44 has a masthead rig,  3 sets of spreaders and requires running backstays while the J/46 is a slightly fractional and simpler rig with 2 sets of swept back spreaders and no running backstays.  Mast height of 65’ is the same.   The J/44 typically has an aluminum mast while the J/46’s are carbon fiber.
• J/44 deep keel rates about 27 PHRF while J/46 deep keel rates about PHRF 33.  Most folks would experience similar sailing performance but if you are a racer then the J/44 will have a slight edge.  More PHRF ratings here: https://jboats.com/phrf-handicaps-for-j-boats-models
• The deck layouts differ, the cockpits are the same size but the J/46 has dual stern lazarettes for storage and an anchor well.
• The J/46 has a modern plush and warm cruising interior while the J/44 is more stripped down but still comfortable.

 

You can find more info on the J/44 here https://jboats.com/j44-performance   and the J/46 here: https://jboats.com/j46-performance-sailboat

 

For us the J/46 was a newer design with superior hull construction, a carbon fiber mast and a cruising interior with more storage.  We previously owned a J/42 for 11 years and now our J/46 for 10 years.  We cruise this boat almost exclusively.  We feel very fortunate to be able to own and sail such a wonderful sailing boat.

 

Hope this helps!

Bernie

J/46 #10 Mystic Rose

 

 

Bernie Coyne

Email: bernie...@outlook.com

Cell/text: 781-789-0762

 

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[Robert Thuss]

I went through the same evaluation for J/42 vs J/44 vs J/46 when I was looking for another 42-48’ boat. As many in this group have heard before, I had a J/42 before and liked the boat so much that I bought another one!

Keep in mind that the J/44 was and still is a premier Bermuda Race boat with its layout and big rig, but even the newest ones are nearly 30 years old. A lot of careful conversion needs to be done to make it easy enough to single- or double-hand sail by a cruising couple. 

Bernie’s point about the carbon mast is not to be overlooked. I just pulled our carbon mast for the winter and it is a fraction of the weight of my friend’s Bavaria 42 aluminum mast. 

Best of luck with your search!

Robert Thuss 

J/42 USA 51663 #63 Lucy Belle

Atlantic Highlands, NJ 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/BN8PR05MB6532491EACD1214186EBB0639B6E9%40BN8PR05MB6532.namprd05.prod.outlook.com.

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Robert Thuss

18 Golden Eye Lane
Port Monmouth, NJ 07758
rob...@thuss.com

Cell (908) 692-4455

[Al Goethe]

I have J/46 #31 which has the deep keel (7’-6”), midship winches and a single set of runners. Below it has a separate freezer and refrigerator, two heads (one with vacuflush) and a single pilot berth to port, cabinets on starboard, one aft cabin and a large lazarette on the opposite side. 

 One of my good friends runs a highly successful J/44 racing program. I know his boat well, having done a couple of Bermuda races and other distance races with them. This boat has a single head (forward), dual aft cabins, pilot berths on both sides, of course much less lazarette storage, larger winches, more genoa tracks, dual runners etc. 

My thought is that for cruising the J/46 is probably the more appropriate boat, with a more cruisy ‘feel’ on the inside (and in most instances also outside). But if you get all the little racing upgrades on the J/46 the boat is quite competitive with the J/44, despite weighing 2000 lbs more. We’re currently competing in the SORC series against each other. The J/44 is winning, but I’m claiming mostly because of more experience on their part. 

Sent from my iPhone

Al Goethe

On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:23, jeff thayer <jeff.fo...@gmail.com> wrote:



Looking for experienced opinions contrasting and comparing the suitability of a J/44 vs J/46 for use as a cruising boat.  

It appears the hull shape is similar, interior layout is similar, weights are similar, keels are different, rig is quite different, but sail area is similar.  

thoughts?

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[Fred deNapoli]

Hi Jeff

Two extraordinary choices!  Clearly a First World Problem!  From 30,000 feet know that J/Boats very cleverly massaged the wildly popular J/40 into the J/42, and the absolute monster rocket ship J/44 into the best of all worlds J/46, a far more versatile platform.

I think I might be able to add some things to the discussion....

Bernie has made some good points, but a few are a little off.

SCRIMP vs. Balsa.  Up until around 1992 TPI used what's now known as "pre-SCRIMP" construction, and changed their assembly to embrace the SCRIMP process.  Having been very active in the J/105 national class for 6 yrs on their Board, this change happened well into their boat's production run.  The result was the creation of two slightly different boats, not ideal with a one design class as highly competitive as this.  It's a given that the pre-SCIMP boats are faster due to the hulls being slightly stiffer and slightly lighter, to the point where these early boats are trading quite a bit higher than the newer SCIMP boats. However, the trade off is that the preSCRIMP boats are considered not as well made and more prone to having issues...thou not always the case.  Add to this the fact that newer is typically better due to advancements in production process, and I'd give the definite nod to SCRIPM boats when it comes to boats like J/44 vs. J/46.  If the engineers in the group want to drill deeper, here's a link to a buyer's guild for J/105's, and they devote a chapter to discussing the SCRIMP process in far greater detail:  https://j105.org/j105-information/buyers-guide/#ar2b

Another rather minor inaccuracy that Bernie suggested was "running backs" on the J/44.  They're actually more correctly known as "check stays", the difference being that they're not structure, but used to fine tune the rig in a variety of scenarios.  For example  we would crank them on a bit after a tack to put a bit more power in the main to accelerate out of the tack, then easy them off, or in a sea state upwind we'd wind them on a bit to keep the center of the mast from pumping.  We also used check stays in a variety of J/Boats including J/35's, J/33's and many others.  Day sailing or cruising the J/44 we'd disconnect the check stays and attach them up by the mast and out of the way....too much risk while casually sailing if someone forgetting to release the windward one in a gybe, esp., and taking the rig with it.  Or, just take them out of the mast entirely if just cruising.  

 

Al Goethe also has some good insights.  However, be aware that J/Boats offered at least two cabin layouts for the J/44, three staterooms and one head, or two staterooms and two heads.  The later had an enormous cockpit locker which simply devoured a LOT of gear and sails.  Not sure where you'd store these without this locker.  The other benefit is having an aft head just adjacent to the companionway is a big advantage for off shore access, a LOT less distance to travel each way.  Meanwhile, the J/46's that I've seen have the two head, two stateroom layout, thou not necessarily all of them.

Finally, financial considerations.  When the J/46 came out it was quite expensive, and even 3-4 yrs ago we watched one in our harbor still fetch over $350k.  Currently there's one in Maine asking $225k, but just now see its "offer pending".  J/44s on the other hand have pretty much bottomed out around $100k for a decent one, but bring  at least that much to get it back to good nic to be comparable.  The used market for them is pretty soft, but stable from my experience.  I think the general consensus is that they're pretty long in the tooth and considerable on going maintenance will only get worse.  Plus in terms of re-sale the "46 brings not only relative youth, but not-insignificant technical advancements throughout the boat, floating in a fully SCRIM build.

We recently sold our J/121, "allegro malvagio", ex-"Wicked", after four seasons, and last month purchased a J/42, "finezza veloce", ex-"Finesse", our eight J/Boat.

Fred deNapoli

Marblehead MA