Chain plate bolts

[Ed S]

Hello All,
I’ve pulled my chainplates, and want to replace some or all,of the bolts (some are rusty). I’ve not been able to find any specs on the type of bolt material to use (I can find the right size on McMaster-Carr), nor for any torque specs when refastening. Anybody have any idea or specs for these two items?
Thanks,
Ed

[Bernie Coyne]

Try calling J/Boats directly (401) 846-8410....then please let us all know 😊

 

Bernie

Mystic Rose  J/46 #10

 

Bernie Coyne

Email: bernie...@verizon.net

Cell/text: 781-789-0762

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[Edward Sitver]

Good call. I should have thought of that first.  Thanks. I’ll report back. 

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[Thomas Keffer]

Ed,

Please see Ivan Getting's (former owner of Kittiwake) exhaustive analysis on chainplate bolts in the old Yahoo groups. Link here.

-tk

[rers...@netscape.net]

Many, many thanks for this valuable info.  J4x rocks!

Reed Erskine   s/v Cayenne

On Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 6:35:10 PM UTC-4, Tom Keffer wrote:

Ed,

Please see Ivan Getting's (former owner of Kittiwake) exhaustive analysis on chainplate bolts in the old Yahoo groups. Link here.

-tk

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:41 AM Edward Sitver <esi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Good call. I should have thought of that first.  Thanks. I’ll report back. 

On Jul 19, 2018, at 2:32 PM, Bernie Coyne <bernie...@verizon.net> wrote:

Try calling J/Boats directly (401) 846-8410....then please let us all know 😊

 

Bernie

Mystic Rose  J/46 #10

 

Bernie Coyne

Email: bernie...@verizon.net

Cell/text: 781-789-0762

 

-----Original Message-----
From: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com <j4x-owners-gr...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ed S
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 12:35 PM
To: J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [J/4X-owners] Chain plate bolts

 

Hello All,

I’ve pulled my chainplates, and want to replace some or all,of the bolts (some are rusty).  I’ve not been able to find any specs on the type of bolt material to use (I can find the right size on McMaster-Carr), nor for any torque specs when refastening. Anybody have any idea or specs for these two items? 

Thanks,

Ed

 

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[Ed S]

Thank you Tom. 

As an aside, I recently saw Kittywake in Stonington Harbor, after her refurbish by Dodsons. I’m assuming it’s the same J you’re referring to.

Regards,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esi...@gmail.com

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[Thomas Keffer]

I have no idea what happened to Kittiwake. Last I saw her, she was in Blaine, Washington --- a long way from Maine! 

Hard to imagine she would need a refurbishment already --- she was in immaculate condition.

-tk

Thank you Tom. 

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[Paul Mikulski]

She’s in Annapolis. New owner Brian Fishback. 

Best,

Paul Mikulski

410.961.5254. Cell 

Epmik...@gmail.com

[Thomas Keffer]

Thanks, Paul!

I don't see him among the J/4X membership. If you see him, be sure to invite him to join.

-tk

[Ed S]

Thanks Paul!

Regards,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esi...@gmail.com

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Mobile: +1 303-570-5071

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United States

------------------------------------

[Ed S]

One more question on chain plates…

Now that I have them polished and in my hands, I see the larger chain plates have a very slight bend at the very top. It’s possible this is on the smaller plates as well, but I don’t have them in hand right now, and forgot to look. The bend appears to be identical between the plates, so I’m assuming that is how they were fabricated. 

Can anybody confirm that? 

Still waiting for some data from J-Boat, but it doesn’t sound like they have as much information as I got from Ivan’s post. Thanks for that!

Now off to the old yahoo database for recommendations on bedding chain plates. :-)

Regards,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esi...@gmail.com

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Mobile: +1 303-570-5071

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United States

------------------------------------

[Thomas Keffer]

Now off to the old yahoo database for recommendations on bedding chain plates. :-)

I like butyl tape. See my write up of rebedding the chainplates.

-tk​

[Kc Cuffel]

Once Bill Bowers is back from northern climes, he may have some good info to share.

Thank you Tom. 

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[Bill Bowers]

Ahoy Mates From Lewisporte YC NL

The chainplate bulkhead is about a foot behind the center of the mast partners.  When set up to the specified Loos gauge shroud tension for prebend the shrouds pull ~ straight up.  I don’t recall having to bend our new 1/2” 316L plates in the fore/aft plane. 

I replaced our original 3/8” plates because the 1/2” turnbuckle yoke was allowing the clevis to bend and deforming the plate clevis eyes.  I posted pics on the Yahoo J4x site. 

Best

Bill Bowers

SV ConverJence

J42 #3

Sent from my iPhone

[Ed S]

Tom,

Great write up on the chain plate rebed. That is going to be very helpful for me when I get to it.

Do you recall if your chain plates were flat or if they had any bends towards the top? 

My larger plates have a very slight bend at the very top 1st inch or so, and the smaller plates have a slight and more gradual curve beginning at about 5 inches down from the top.

At first I was thinking these were as fabricated, but the one on the larger plate doesn’t really make sense to me, as that bend would be close to, or probably even inside, the fork fitting from the bottom of the rod. And I think the curve from the skinnier plate would wind up being below deck. Just doesn’t seem right. 

I haven’t been able to get any info from J-Boats yesterday or today on that, but I’m going to keep trying next week. I can probably contact Rod Johnstone directly on Monday, but would help expedite my project this weekend if I knew whether I was looking at new chain plates, or if the bends are as designed. 

Thanks,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esi...@gmail.com

WhatsApp:  +1 303-570-5071
Mobile: +1 303-570-5071

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------------------------------------

--

[Thomas Keffer]

I'm pretty sure my chainplates were absolutely flat. I would have noticed a curve.

-tk

[Bill Bowers]

Soinds as if your plates are deforming under load. You should replace with 1/2” waterjet cut plate. 

Bill Bowers

Sent from my iPad

[Ed S]

Thanks Bill. I was afraid that would be the case. 

If anybody has a recommendation for where to get chain plates as described cut in the Rhode Island north east Connecticut area, I’ll take them. I don’t know anything at all about this process, so kind of stumbling through it.

Regards,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esi...@gmail.com

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------------------------------------

[Bill Bowers]

Hi Ed

I found our plates were irregular apparently hand drilled on a drill press with uneven pattern. Had the old ones copied so the bolt holes matched rhe bulkhead. 

Google water jet cutting. 

Bill Bowers

Sent from my iPhone

[Ed S]

OK... here’s an update on where I’m at regarding my chain plates. After reading Ivan’s excellent post (much of which goes beyond my ability to comprehend the engineering mathematics), I’m certainly going to replace the bolts and torque them properly. No brained. As for chain plates...

While it’s tempting to spend the $300 or so that it looks like it’ll take to get new ones fabricated and polished, in 304, as recommended by Ivan, I convinced that the ones I have would most likely outlast my time with the boat. I spent about an hour or so with an engineer who worked on the J/42 rigs at Hall Spars. He is the one who actually drew the mast layout specs for my boat. Neither he, nor the head of the engineering department at New England Boatworks, think I need new chain plates. They felt the minimal amount of pitting and wear almost certainly has not jeopardized the plates enough to make them a potential point of failure.

Nobody is, of course, going to make any 100% guarantees about such things, but the former Hall engineer backed it up with some quick calculations, which showed that the plates would begin to deform at over 9000lbs of load (or whatever the proper engineering term is). Failure would happen at some load well above that. And now that I consider it, what kind of sail material would hold up to loading a rig with 10,000 lbs at one or more of the chain plates? What will the bulkhead and deck withstand? Unless I’m missing something, the number seems to show there is plenty of buffer to allow for some surface pitting. I could have them electropolished, and be in good shape. This assumes there is no serious, microscopic flaw internally in one or more of the plates. Maybe that’s a big and overly optimistic assumption

He stressed that these were quick calculations, but the point is that my brand new rod is likely to fail before the chain plates. Everybody acknowledges that the plates are used and not at brand new specs, but they were so over engineered, as rigs normally are, that they should still be bombproof (the Hall thought that rig had been engineered so that the potential forces on the rig wouldn’t exceed 40% of the strength of it.).

The OCD, paranoid part of me might still pony up for the new chain plates, in the standard thicknesses, but the objective, logical part of my brain is saying it’s not a mission critical spend, even expecting that mission to someday include an ocean crossing or two, and possibly, but hopefully not, some time in a serious storm or two.

Is there something I’ve not considered?

-Ed

[Thomas Keffer]

Intuitively, that all seems right to me. Bill’s experience is the only instance I’ve heard of a chainplate bending on a J 42. 

However, I wonder how it ever bent in the first place? Did the Hall engineer offer an opinion on that?

[Ed S]

Tom,

The guess was that the toggles connecting the rod torqued the chain plates at an off angle enough to slightly bend a corner.  The toggles (“forks”) connecting the turnbuckles to the chainplates have a lot of play, and he suspects they wound up at an angle under load. Not so sure about that, but I am going to come up with some way to shim that slack that might allow the toggles to get at a more oblique angle to the chain plate under some conditions ( perhaps when they are unloaded on the lee side? ).

Regards,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esitver@gmail.com

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------------------------------------

[Bill Bowers]

Ed

I can see no way an intact J42 mast could bend the 3/8” thick chainplates fore and aft out of column.  Could the PO have been dismasted or involved in a collision? Or maybe the spinnaker pole was oversquared?

Shimming the oversize forks to keep them centered would eliminate off axis loads on the plate but will not reduce clevis pin bending which distorted my plate eyes. The washers float freely so they will not reduce the shear bending of the 1/2” pins. 

You could have the washers TIG welded inside the forks. 

Any replacement plates should be made from 1/2” plate, or forks which fit 3/8” plate should be sourced.  Garhauer is a great resource for one off custom hardware at very fair pricing. 

They made a reducing toggle for our old Harken Unit 1.5 furler to serve the staysail. 

Best

Bill Bowers

SV ConverJence

J42 #3

Sent from my iPhone

[Ed S]

Hi Bill,

I have no firm idea about what may have led to those chain plates being a bit bent. Really just the larger ones are dog eared very very slightly at one corner.

As far as I know, and can tell by the condition of the boat, it has no major collision in its past. But who knows.

Regards,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esitver@gmail.com

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Mobile:  +1 303-570-5071

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Beaverton, OR 97008

United States

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[Ed S]

Chain plates are buffed and ready to go in.

Lock washers? Mine bolts had lock washers when they came off, but Ivan’s excellent post on torquing the bolts indicates no need for washers. Anybody else have lock washers? As installed by builder/

Thanks,
Ed

[Dennis Boyd]

All,

Sorry to reopen this old thread, but I cannot seem to get to the old Yahoo group.     Would anyone remember just what the torque setting are for  the chainplates.       I plan to pull mine tomorrow and reinstall them following Tom's tips.    But when I put them back in,  fingers crossed all is ok.   Just wondering what the numbers are.  

Anyone remember or write it down?

Dennis

Jaywalker, J42 #6

[WSC]

I had some of the old yahoo notes archived, but could not find the reference.  this is the link to the most recent discussion - consensus was 45lbs.  https://groups.google.com/g/j4x-owners-group/c/XXptkikMaFs/m/bkBWwDpFAQAJ    

Sean C / J42 #1 VIDA

[S/V Sweet Ruca]

Make sure to pull them and inspect the bolts periodically, especially as they age. I have found reason to replace a few so far. 

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[Dennis Boyd]

All, 

Many thanks.     I am glad my gut was in the right place.    I was thinking above 35ft-lbs but no where near what bolt specs recommend, since you would crush the bulkhead.   45 is what I will go with. 

And yes,  we are pulling them today.  I will get some pics and share what we find. 

Dennis

[David Jade]

On both J Boats we’ve owned, we pulled and inspected chainplates (one was leaking). The plates and bolts were fine both times (under microscope and dye inspection). But what we found in both J Boats were gaps around the deck where the plates insert that needed minor repair.

 

One older boat (J/35c) had exposed balsa core around the plates (we filled with epoxy and re-cut) and the other had solid glass around the plates (J/46) but with both, there was a void around where the deck cover plate screws inserted because that was never solid and water got in a rotted the core.

 

So check those areas too and be prepared to epoxy fill, redrill, etc… as needed. Get the deck good an sealed so that any future water leaks can’t get into the core.

 

Btw, it also helps to slightly bevel the edges of the deck’s gelcoat before you reseal the top cover plates as you’ll get a better weather seal as the sealant squishes out.

 

David             _/)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[York.richardw]

Curtis-

You ruined my day!   

What hull number is Sweet Ruca?

Thank You … Dick York 

On Nov 24, 2025, at 08:03, S/V Sweet Ruca <rucas...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ed Sitver]

I found the reference in my archived Yahoo Group files, so confirming that Ivan Getting noted: "The short answer is torque the 5/8-11 bolts through the chainplates gently to 45 ft-lb torque by turning the nuts.” There were attachments with his engineering explanation, but it looks like those have been lost.  Ivan’s information is based on his having “...spent my working days designing and operating devices that generate pressures to 5,000,000 psi and temperatures to 5,000 F.”

I’ll chat with Tom about getting what I have from the Yahoo Group archived in the drive for this new group, if it’s possible. 

e

[Dennis Boyd]

All, 

I promised to circle back to the group.    We pulled chain plates.    all came out with little to no effort, bolts had lock washers.   Deck cut outs where they pass were not sealed and we applied west system as outlined in Tom's chainplate write up. 

Good news, bad news.   All chainplates had erosion at deck / caulk air interface, clear line on all of them.    The foward smaller chainplates had obivous corrosion where buried in the deck, and one had a clear crack.   We going to replace all four.    As they say, keep the rig up, the water out and the rudder on.  Here is picture of the worst one. 

[Al Goethe]

Scary looking!!

What made you look? 

How old is the boat (and that chain plate, I assume)?

Al Goethe

On Nov 26, 2025, at 15:01, Dennis Boyd <dennis....@gmail.com> wrote:

All, 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/9ad0f1dc-05b4-454b-8693-d2fca6c470f7n%40googlegroups.com.

<Port Foward.JPG>

[Dennis Boyd]

Al, 

as you probably know, Jaywalker was single owner, until I purchased.   I been going thru Bill's files and reading his books, on book three..   I didn't see any record of chainplates being pulled.  Lots of other interesting nuggets, but nothing yet on rig.     Right after we closed, I pulled the rig and we found some cracks hidden under the spreaders, where the  spreader bars pass thru.    I am still working that issue still, it's minor but I going to address.   This motivated me to look deeper, and I found Tom's 3 Fool's page.   He outlined a simple way to pull and rebed chainplates, so I said what the heck, I can do that.   The chainplates have clearly been rebedded a few times, and that work was very tight, but inside between skins was not epoxy filled.  I did find some moisture in the core at one cover plate screw, and this is the location where the pictured chainplate was.    We also had minor staining on inside where chainplates are bolted to bulkheads, again, very minor, just a pencil line trace.   Visually it all looked good, solid and bright.   Moisture in deck was so minor that surveyor did not detect.   I think its just by luck I found the issue    

[Dennis Boyd]

Al, 

Jaywalker is a J42,  Hull #6, built in 1996, it was one of the first runs.  so coming up on 30 years. 

[Al Goethe]

Thanks! 

I have a 2002 J/46 and am always wondering about these issues. So far I haven’t had any chain plate leaks. 

But I’ve replaced all standing rigging at 20 years and took the keel off to check the bolts where you can’t see them when installed (they were all in pristine condition). Complete life line replacement etc. The things that are invisible until they are catastrophic…..

Al Goethe

On Nov 26, 2025, at 16:40, Dennis Boyd <dennis....@gmail.com> wrote:

Al, 

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[S/V Sweet Ruca]

#12 I believe.

I just ordered new chainplates and they are being fabbed. I will let you guys know how it goes.

Better to be safe than sorry after 25 years of solid service. 

Definitely inspect the bolts at the very least (pretty easy to pop them in and out one at a time). 

The bolts are available from McMaster.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/277BFADE-C82D-412D-BC03-4BAAA0747AED%40gmail.com.

[jeff thayer]

I went thru the same process on J/42 # 46.  Pulled all the chainplates and found stress cracks.   Decided to replace w/ Ti plates.   A bit more $ then SS but "thought" to be stronger and more resistant to corrosion.  We'll see.  Had them fabricated custom.  Can share the details w/ anybody interested.  

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/9ad0f1dc-05b4-454b-8693-d2fca6c470f7n%40googlegroups.com.

[david hills]

Yes Jeff, interested

David Hills

Caretaker 

Emery Farm

135 Piscataqua Rd

Durham, NH 03824

603-674-6412

I am my own strength, there is no other
I am my own weakness, there is no other
We are all one, there is no other

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On Nov 26, 2025, at 7:20 PM, jeff thayer <jeff.fo...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[jeff thayer]

Here is the drawing of the chain plates.  If you need advice on fabricators, I have one domestic and one Chinese.  

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/499F94CB-F541-427B-8416-62363FCFCE8B%40gmail.com.

[david hills]

thank you! I’ve noticed some rust on the starboard side in the forward cabin locker, where the chain plate is. I will explore further. Again, thank you.

David Hills

Caretaker 

Emery Farm

135 Piscataqua Rd

Durham, NH 03824

603-674-6412

I am my own strength, there is no other
I am my own weakness, there is no other
We are all one, there is no other

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On Nov 28, 2025, at 9:32 AM, jeff thayer <jeff.fo...@gmail.com> wrote:



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<J-42 CHAIN PLATES (1).pdf>

[Ed Sitver]

I purchased SS chainplates from Jeff’s vendor in China, and that worked out well. If memory serves, it was the less expensive and shorter turnaround. My only critique would be that they were not highly polished as I’d expected (you can see subtle polishing/polisher markings). 

Ed

------------------------------------
Ed Sitver
esi...@gmail.com

WhatsApp:  +1 303-570-5071
Mobile: +1 303-570-5071

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<J-42 CHAIN PLATES (1).pdf>

[david hills]

Hi Jeff,

Curious who you rec for Ti plates to be made if our winter exploration indicates it’s a good idea?

Thanks very much,

David

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<J-42 CHAIN PLATES (1).pdf>

[Bill Bowers]

Hi All

I think part of the J4x chainplate drama is that the original plates were not 1/2” thick so the clevis pins bow upward in the 1/2” turnbuckle jaws. 

I replaced ours on ConverJence with 1/2” 316 plate. Noted that originals were apparently hand made on a drill press and the bolt pattern was not exactly regular to the zig zag design print. I mapped the center coordinates of our old 3/8” plates on my CNC with an optical centering scope and had new 1/2” plates water jet cut to my png files.  The new bolt patterns exactly matched our bulkhead holes. 

Best

Bill Bowers

J42 #3

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[jeff thayer]

The two quotes I got for Titanium chainplates to my design (which is a direct copy of the factory originals.).  I went w/ the Marygold folks and was quite happy with the delivered parts.   

Jeff Thayer

SV Allez, J/42 #46. currently on the hard in Buffalo NY.  

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[S/V Sweet Ruca]

I just purchased some through these guys: https://stainlessoutfitters.com/contact-stainless-outfitters-inc/

Good price, easy and helpful to deal with, good comms, and quick production and shipping time. They made them according to the drawings. 

They are shipping today, so I haven't seen them yet, and TBD if they fit, but my fingers are crossed. 

Cheers,

Curtis

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[david hills]

Thanks Curtis. 

If you don’t mind sharing, what did they quote you for price?

David Hills

Caretaker 

Emery Farm

135 Piscataqua Rd

Durham, NH 03824

603-674-6412

I am my own strength, there is no other
I am my own weakness, there is no other
We are all one, there is no other

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2025, at 1:40 PM, S/V Sweet Ruca <rucas...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Dennis Boyd]

Yes,  I would be interested in what they ask for too.

Dennis