"Have you arrived?" o "Did you arrive?"
Jan
2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
Which is the most correct?
--
Valjean
Sandrin
Joey from NY
(in article <i3p06g$knp$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> 1) Did you arrive? How was your flight?
> 2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
>
> Which is the most correct?
>
>
Have you arrived? How was your flight.
--
Joey from NY
Giovanni "Darke"
>> 1) Did you arrive? How was your flight?
>> 2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
>> Which is the most correct?
> Have you arrived? How was your flight.
Mettetevi d'accordo.
Cmq io sono d'accordo con "Sandrin".
Perché siccome dico "Did you make it?" allora dico anche "Did you arrive?"
How was your flight? How was dinner (on board)?.
& so on and on and on...
ciao
>Giovanni
Joey from NY
(in article <4c66a123$0$12125$4faf...@reader4.news.tin.it>):
In my mind, the first question was made during a phone call. You wouldn't ask
it in person, since, in person you would know if the person being asked had
arrived.
Of course, it depends entirely on the surrounding -- or preceding --
conversation, too.
- "We had a lot of trouble at the airport and the flight was delayed, but we
finally made it."
- "Did you arrive on time?"
as opposed to
- "We had a lot of trouble at the airport and the flight was delayed."
- "Have you arrived at the hotel yet?"
--
Joey from NY
Giovanni "Darke"
>>>> 1) Did you arrive? How was your flight?
>>>> 2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
>>>> Which is the most correct?
>>> Have you arrived? How was your flight.
>> Mettetevi d'accordo.
>> Cmq io sono d'accordo con "Sandrin".
>> Perché siccome dico "Did you make it?" allora dico anche "Did you arrive?"
>> How was your flight? How was dinner (on board)?.
>> & so on and on and on...
> In my mind, the first question was made during a phone call. You wouldn't ask
> it in person, since, in person you would know if the person being asked had
> arrived.
Ok. But then again you'd ask "did you make it on time?" and so "did you
arrive?
"
> - "We had a lot of trouble at the airport and the flight was delayed, but we
> finally made it."
> - "Did you arrive on time?"
> as opposed to
> - "We had a lot of trouble at the airport and the flight was delayed."
> - "Have you arrived at the hotel yet?"
there's no "yet" in the proposed question.
Joey from NY
(in article <4c6803c7$0$18999$4faf...@reader5.news.tin.it>):
> Ok. But then again you'd ask "did you make it on time?" and so "did you
> arrive?
Definitely "did you make it on time" and not "have you made it on time."
(But to mirror your comment, below, there's no "on time" in the proposed
question either.)
>> - "We had a lot of trouble at the airport and the flight was delayed."
>> - "Have you arrived at the hotel yet?"
>
> there's no "yet" in the proposed question.
No, but in my example -- which is only that, and only for that scenario, even
without "yet" If the event is in the present or recent past, I would expect
"have you arrived at the hotel?"
The original examples:
1) Did you arrive? How was your flight?
2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
I'm trying to understand when one would ask "Did you arrive? How was your
flight?"
I"m not saying that "did you arrive" is wrong, syntactically. It just doesn't
make sense with "How was your flight" following it.
You can say it however you want.
--
Joey from NY
Joey from NY
(in article <i3p06g$knp$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> 1) Did you arrive? How was your flight?
> 2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
>
> Which is the most correct?
>
>
Okay, to back up and answer your question, No. 1 is more correct (not "most"
correct.)
But let me ask you, Jan, how would you ask this question in Italian?
--
Joey from NY
Jan
> Okay, to back up and answer your question, No. 1 is more correct (not "most"
> correct.)
>
> But let me ask you, Jan, how would you ask this question in Italian?
The situation is the following:
a friend of mine just left in the morning to come back to his country,
then i texted him in order to know whether he has arrived or not.
So in italian I would ask:
"Sei arrivato? Com'è andato il volo?"
Giovanni "Darke"
>> Ok. But then again you'd ask "did you make it on time?" and so "did you
>> arrive?
> Definitely "did you make it on time" and not "have you made it on time."
> (But to mirror your comment, below, there's no "on time" in the proposed
> question either.)
yeah. I guess when I say "did you make it?" the "on time" is understood,
so it counts...
> The original examples:
> 1) Did you arrive? How was your flight?
> 2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
the second occurs much less often, but it's true anyway.
i see your point.
> I'm trying to understand when one would ask "Did you arrive? How was your
> flight?"
I expect somebody to get somewhere, for instance by plane.
When I think he should already have gotten there, I call him on the
phone, and ask:
"So, what's up? Did you arrive?"
"Oh yes I'm already starting to settle in!"
"And tell me...how was you flight?"
colloquial English. I guess the arrival and the flight are in the same
time-sequence.
perhaps not 100% grammar-proof.
> I"m not saying that "did you arrive" is wrong, syntactically. It just doesn't
> make sense with "How was your flight" following it.
maybe "how has your flight been?", since the flight occured before the
arrival; a little pretentious perhaps.
ciao
>Giovanni
Giovanni "Darke"
> So in italian I would ask:
> "Sei arrivato? Com'è andato il volo?"
Did you arrive?
(you don't know the answer yet)
How was your flight?
ciao
>Giovanni
Joey from NY
(in article <4c684818$0$12121$4faf...@reader4.news.tin.it>):
>> 2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
>
> the second occurs much less often, but it's true anyway.
> i see your point.
The second is totally non-standard. It would almost never occur as "Have you
arrived? How had been your flight?" It's just not natural. "How was your
flight" is almost required there.
"How had been your flight?" (which, by the way, is normally expressed as "How
had your flight been?") would require some reference to an event or situation
that occurred at an earlier point in time. Such as
"I heard there was a disturbance on your trip home. How had your flight been
(up until then)?"
--
Joey from NY
Joey from NY
(in article <i49dp7$gdp$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> Joey from NY ha scritto:
>
>> Okay, to back up and answer your question, No. 1 is more correct (not
>> "most"
>> correct.)
>>
>> But let me ask you, Jan, how would you ask this question in Italian?
>
> The situation is the following:
> a friend of mine just left in the morning to come back to his country,
a friend of mine just left in the morning to go back to his country
> then i texted him in order to know whether he has arrived or not.
then I texted him ... to know whether he had arrived or not.
>
> So in italian I would ask:
>
> "Sei arrivato? Com'è andato il volo?"
"Did you arrive? How was the flight?"
I would still ask "Have you arrived (yet)?" since you don't know the status
of his trip. It might not have happened or it might have just happened. The
immediacy of the situation almost begs for the present perfect.
If you think that sounds too formal, you could ask "Did you get home (yet)?"
--
Joey from NY
Giovanni "Darke"
>> So in italian I would ask:
>> "Sei arrivato? Com'è andato il volo?"
> "Did you arrive? How was the flight?"
> I would still ask "Have you arrived (yet)?" since you don't know the status
> of his trip. It might not have happened or it might have just happened. The
> immediacy of the situation almost begs for the present perfect.
> If you think that sounds too formal, you could ask "Did you get home (yet)?"
what's the difference? you don't know it that has occured either, do you?
Joey from NY
(in article <4c69ec27$0$40289$4faf...@reader2.news.tin.it>):
What I'm trying to get across is that the simple past has no inherent
connection to the present.
The present perfect is more closely connected to an event in the past that
may continue to the present (and/or that has just happened) and because of
the implied context of the original inquiry, the arrival has either not
happened yet, is imminent or has just happened, and that's what the person
asking is trying to determine.
If the person who was being asked the question had already indicated some
elements or events of the trip and had not yet stated whether or not he/she
arrived, then "Did you arrive?" would be okay (but better would be "Had you
arrived [at that point in the story]?")
Maybe I'm just not successful in demonstrating the subtleties between the
simple past and the present perfect. Sorry.
End of discussion.
--
Joey from NY
Tony The Ice Man
> 2) Have you arrived? How had been your flight?
> Which is the most correct?
The convoluted discussions on this topic may do more to confuse than
enlighten learners of English. Here is my attempt to supply a simple answer.
It's true, as Joey says, that "have you arrived?" is a phrase that
you're more likely to use if you are speaking to someone currently in
transit (if that indeed is what he was saying), but it still would not
be odd for someone to ask "did you arrive?" in that situation.
It would be natural to say "did you arrive?" when talking about a trip
that happened in the past, but very odd (and confusing) to ask "have you
arrived?" in that context, because you would be asking about the current
status of the person queried.
I'd say that you can use either without worry when talking about a
current trip. You cannot say "how had been your flight?" You should say,
instead, "how was your flight?"
Giovanni "Darke"
> What I'm trying to get across is that the simple past has no inherent
> connection to the present.
Oh I see. That does make sense, although...
> The present perfect is more closely connected to an event in the past that
> may continue to the present (and/or that has just happened) and because of
> the implied context of the original inquiry, the arrival has either not
> happened yet, is imminent or has just happened, and that's what the person
> asking is trying to determine.
Yes but at the present you are not able to answer the phone while on the
airplane, so the (airplane, not home) arrival must be completed or
imminent, in order for you to be able to answer the phone.
> Maybe I'm just not successful in demonstrating the subtleties between the
> simple past and the present perfect. Sorry.
no no...now i see.
Joey from NY
(in article <4c6bf3ac$0$40279$4faf...@reader2.news.tin.it>):
> Yes but at the present you are not able to answer the phone while on the
> airplane, so the (airplane, not home) arrival must be completed or
> imminent, in order for you to be able to answer the phone.
Cell phone? Mobile? Cellulare? Telefonino?
--
Joey from NY
Joey from NY
(in article <4c6bf3ac$0$40279$4faf...@reader2.news.tin.it>):
> Yes but at the present you are not able to answer the phone while on the
> airplane, so the (airplane, not home) arrival must be completed or
> imminent, in order for you to be able to answer the phone.
Further: if the call was made to the recipient's home phone, why would you
ask if he had arrived, since you're talking to him at his home?
--
Joey from NY
Giovanni "Darke"
>> Yes but at the present you are not able to answer the phone while on the
>> airplane, so the (airplane, not home) arrival must be completed or
>> imminent, in order for you to be able to answer the phone.
> Cell phone? Mobile? Cellulare? Telefonino?
any. you are simply not available while on a plane. up to now.
Giovanni "Darke"
> Further: if the call was made to the recipient's home phone, why would you
> ask if he had arrived, since you're talking to him at his home?
i don't know but it's something you say anyway. think about it.