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Con i se e con i ma non si fa la storia
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Massy
Nov 2, 2012, 11:08:45 AM11/2/12
to
come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo pi� "letterale"
possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.
--
Massy
possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.
--
Massy
Joe from NY
Nov 2, 2012, 1:21:24 PM11/2/12
to
On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 11:08:45 -0400, Massy wrote
(in article <k70nlq$3e6$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più "letterale"
<
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/47182/origin-of-the-idiom-if-ifs-
and-buts-were-candy-and-nuts>
and
< http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2144764>
--
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
-- WH Auden
(in article <k70nlq$3e6$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più "letterale"
> possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
> "with if and with but did not make history"?
> "with perhaps did not make the history"?
> Boh!
>
> Grazie.
>
>
If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.
> "with if and with but did not make history"?
> "with perhaps did not make the history"?
> Boh!
>
> Grazie.
>
>
<
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/47182/origin-of-the-idiom-if-ifs-
and-buts-were-candy-and-nuts>
and
< http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2144764>
--
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
-- WH Auden
Massy
Nov 2, 2012, 3:48:28 PM11/2/12
to
--
Massy
Massy
Nov 2, 2012, 3:49:09 PM11/2/12
to
Joe from NY wrote:
> If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry
> Christmas.
> If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry
> Christmas.
Tony the Ice Man
Nov 2, 2012, 4:15:43 PM11/2/12
to
With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'
Massy
Nov 3, 2012, 1:44:20 PM11/3/12
to
Grazie mille ad entrambi! ;-)
--
Massy
Joe from NY
Nov 3, 2012, 3:23:26 PM11/3/12
to
On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:49:09 -0400, Massy wrote
(in article <k7183h$fr8$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> Joe from NY wrote:
>> If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry
>> Christmas.
>
> Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)
>
>
>
No, it's not too literal, but the expression is somewhat obscure and isn't
very common in English, to my knowledge.
A literal translation, "You don't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts' " has
*about* the same meaning ("Don't make excuses for your shortcomings") but is
much less colorful, IMHO.
(in article <k7183h$fr8$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> Joe from NY wrote:
>> If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry
>> Christmas.
>
>
>
>
No, it's not too literal, but the expression is somewhat obscure and isn't
very common in English, to my knowledge.
A literal translation, "You don't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts' " has
*about* the same meaning ("Don't make excuses for your shortcomings") but is
much less colorful, IMHO.
Archaeopteryx
Nov 3, 2012, 6:15:40 PM11/3/12
to
Il 02/11/2012 21:15, Tony the Ice Man ha scritto:
> Allora, letteralmente,
>
> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>
> O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
>
> One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'
quello che trovo interessante è: come viene percepito da
> Allora, letteralmente,
>
> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>
> O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
>
> One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'
un parlante di madrelingua? Un uso creativo/sofisticato
dell'inglese o si sente proprio che è un "idiom" portato
da un'altra lingua?
ciao!
Apx.
ADPUF
Nov 3, 2012, 6:43:34 PM11/3/12
to
Tony the Ice Man, 21:15, venerd� 2 novembre 2012:
"One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
(My creation, does that means anything? :-)
--
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member
of Congress. But I repeat myself.
-- Mark Twain
(My creation, does that means anything? :-)
--
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member
of Congress. But I repeat myself.
-- Mark Twain
Tony the Ice Man
Nov 3, 2012, 6:50:58 PM11/3/12
to
On 11/3/2012 3:15 PM, Archaeopteryx wrote:
> Il 02/11/2012 21:15, Tony the Ice Man ha scritto:
>> Allora, letteralmente,
>> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>> O meno letteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
> Il 02/11/2012 21:15, Tony the Ice Man ha scritto:
>> Allora, letteralmente,
>> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>> One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'
> quello che trovo interessante ￜ: come viene percepito da
> un parlante di madrelingua? Un uso creativo/sofisticato
> dell'inglese o si sente proprio che ￜ un "idiom" portato
> da un'altra lingua?
Non ￜ un'idioma inglese ma se vuoi diffondere le parole, hanno senso e
possono diventare un'idioma senza problema. Ma in realitￜ, le idiome
inglesi sono piￜ "folksy" come "Ifs and buts won't change the world."
Tony the Ice Man
Nov 3, 2012, 7:20:42 PM11/3/12
to
On 11/3/2012 3:43 PM, ADPUF wrote:
> Tony the Ice Man, 21:15, venerd� 2 novembre 2012:
>> On 11/2/2012 12:48 PM, Massy wrote:
>>> Massy wrote:
>>>> come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo pi�
>>>> "letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
>>>> "with if and with but did not make history"?
>>>> "with perhaps did not make the history"?
>>>> Boh!
>>>> Grazie.
>>> Non � molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)
>> Allora, letteralmente,
>> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>> O meno letteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
> Tony the Ice Man, 21:15, venerd� 2 novembre 2012:
>> On 11/2/2012 12:48 PM, Massy wrote:
>>> Massy wrote:
>>>> come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo pi�
>>>> "letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
>>>> "with if and with but did not make history"?
>>>> "with perhaps did not make the history"?
>>>> Boh!
>>>> Grazie.
>>> Non � molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)
>> Allora, letteralmente,
>> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>> One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'
>
> "One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
> (My creation, does that means anything? :-)
Not really. But then, one doesn't make pies with hows and whys.
>
> "One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
> (My creation, does that means anything? :-)
Massy
Nov 4, 2012, 12:45:09 AM11/4/12
to
ADPUF wrote:
> Tony the Ice Man, 21:15, venerdě 2 novembre 2012:
Non ho capito cosa volessi intendere...
--
Massy
> Tony the Ice Man, 21:15, venerdě 2 novembre 2012:
>> On 11/2/2012 12:48 PM, Massy wrote:
>>> Massy wrote:
>>>> come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo piů
>>> Massy wrote:
>>>> "letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
>>>> "with if and with but did not make history"?
>>>> "with perhaps did not make the history"?
>>>> Boh!
>>>>
>>>> Grazie.
>>>
>>> Non č molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)
>>>> "with if and with but did not make history"?
>>>> "with perhaps did not make the history"?
>>>> Boh!
>>>>
>>>> Grazie.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Allora, letteralmente,
>>
>> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>>
>> O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
>>
>> One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'
>
>
> "One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
Non si fanno le penne con i quando e gli allora?!?!
>>
>> Allora, letteralmente,
>>
>> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>>
>> O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
>>
>> One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'
>
>
> "One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
Non ho capito cosa volessi intendere...
--
Massy
Joe from NY
Nov 4, 2012, 7:55:19 AM11/4/12
to
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 23:45:09 -0500, Massy wrote
(in article <k74rsk$cpt$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> ADPUF wrote:
>> Tony the Ice Man, 21:15, venerdì 2 novembre 2012:
phrases, but none of them carry the original meaning.
"If" and "but" are words used to excuse oneself from failures...
"If I had xxx I would have done it..."
"But I tried my best..."
Words that are used in the face of one's shortcomings.
There's another English-language saying that expresses a similar thought:
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. (No it doesn't rhyme; it's not
meant to.)
IOW: Get real and face the facts of your own responsibilities.
(in article <k74rsk$cpt$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> ADPUF wrote:
>> Tony the Ice Man, 21:15, venerdì 2 novembre 2012:
>>> On 11/2/2012 12:48 PM, Massy wrote:
>>>> Massy wrote:
>>>>> come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più
>>>> Massy wrote:
>>>>> "letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
>>>>> "with if and with but did not make history"?
>>>>> "with perhaps did not make the history"?
>>>>> Boh!
>>>>>
>>>>> Grazie.
>>>>
>>>> Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)
>>>>> "with if and with but did not make history"?
>>>>> "with perhaps did not make the history"?
>>>>> Boh!
>>>>>
>>>>> Grazie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Allora, letteralmente,
>>>
>>> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>>>
>>> O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
>>>
>>> One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'
>>
>>
>> "One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
>
> Non si fanno le penne con i quando e gli allora?!?!
> Non ho capito cosa volessi intendere...
>
>
Nor do I. The original meaning is lost here. These are cutesy rhyming
>>>
>>> Allora, letteralmente,
>>>
>>> With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
>>>
>>> O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
>>>
>>> One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'
>>
>>
>> "One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
>
> Non si fanno le penne con i quando e gli allora?!?!
> Non ho capito cosa volessi intendere...
>
>
phrases, but none of them carry the original meaning.
"If" and "but" are words used to excuse oneself from failures...
"If I had xxx I would have done it..."
"But I tried my best..."
Words that are used in the face of one's shortcomings.
There's another English-language saying that expresses a similar thought:
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. (No it doesn't rhyme; it's not
meant to.)
IOW: Get real and face the facts of your own responsibilities.
Massy
Nov 4, 2012, 12:50:51 PM11/4/12
to
Joe from NY wrote:
> "If" and "but" are words used to excuse oneself from failures...
> "If I had xxx I would have done it..."
> "But I tried my best..."
Non necessariamente!
> "If" and "but" are words used to excuse oneself from failures...
> "If I had xxx I would have done it..."
> "But I tried my best..."
Puoi anche dire, ad es.:
"Se fossi nato ricco la mia vita sarebbe stata più facile/sarei stato più
felice"
"Se mia moglie non mi avesse tradito ora sarei ancora felicemnte sposato"
"Se l'america non avesse vinto la guerra ora la germania governerebbe
l'europa"
ecc. ecc. ecc.
> There's another English-language saying that expresses a similar
> thought:
>
> If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. (No it doesn't rhyme; it's
> not meant to.)
>
> IOW: Get real and face the facts of your own responsibilities.
Mi sfugge il senso... Significa che gli accattoni seguono sempre e ad ogni
costo i loro sogni?
Però non capisco come possa sottintendere "prenditi le tue responsabilità"
Boh!
--
Massy
Joe from NY
Nov 4, 2012, 12:57:39 PM11/4/12
to
On Sun, 4 Nov 2012 12:50:51 -0500, Massy wrote
(in article <k769tm$mnl$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> Joe from NY wrote:
>> "If" and "but" are words used to excuse oneself from failures...
>> "If I had xxx I would have done it..."
>> "But I tried my best..."
>
> Non necessariamente!
> Puoi anche dire, ad es.:
> "Se fossi nato ricco la mia vita sarebbe stata più facile/sarei stato più
> felice"
Failure on the part of Fate: you were not born rich. I'm blaming Fate, not
myself for making my life easier or myself happier.
> "Se mia moglie non mi avesse tradito ora sarei ancora felicemnte sposato"
Faillure on your wife's part for not staying faithful (or your own part for
not keeping her satisfied.)
> "Se l'america non avesse vinto la guerra ora la germania governerebbe
> l'europa"
It doesn't fit every occasion... :)
> ecc. ecc. ecc.
>
>> There's another English-language saying that expresses a similar
>> thought:
>>
>> If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. (No it doesn't rhyme; it's
>> not meant to.)
>>
>> IOW: Get real and face the facts of your own responsibilities.
>
> Se i desideri fossero cavalli, gli accattoni vorrebbero cavalcare?
> Mi sfugge il senso... Significa che gli accattoni seguono sempre e ad ogni
> costo i loro sogni?
> Però non capisco come possa sottintendere "prenditi le tue responsabilità"
> Boh!
Maybe it's clearer with the insertion of "even": If wishes were horses,
/even/ beggars would [be able to] ride.
If all one had to do was wish for something (in this case, a horse) even
people without means would be able to ride.
< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_wishes_were_horses,_beggars_would_ride>
(in article <k769tm$mnl$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> Joe from NY wrote:
>> "If" and "but" are words used to excuse oneself from failures...
>> "If I had xxx I would have done it..."
>> "But I tried my best..."
>
> Non necessariamente!
> Puoi anche dire, ad es.:
> "Se fossi nato ricco la mia vita sarebbe stata più facile/sarei stato più
> felice"
myself for making my life easier or myself happier.
> "Se mia moglie non mi avesse tradito ora sarei ancora felicemnte sposato"
not keeping her satisfied.)
> "Se l'america non avesse vinto la guerra ora la germania governerebbe
> l'europa"
> ecc. ecc. ecc.
>
>> There's another English-language saying that expresses a similar
>> thought:
>>
>> If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. (No it doesn't rhyme; it's
>> not meant to.)
>>
>> IOW: Get real and face the facts of your own responsibilities.
>
> Se i desideri fossero cavalli, gli accattoni vorrebbero cavalcare?
> Mi sfugge il senso... Significa che gli accattoni seguono sempre e ad ogni
> costo i loro sogni?
> Però non capisco come possa sottintendere "prenditi le tue responsabilità"
> Boh!
/even/ beggars would [be able to] ride.
If all one had to do was wish for something (in this case, a horse) even
people without means would be able to ride.
< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_wishes_were_horses,_beggars_would_ride>
Massy
Nov 4, 2012, 1:06:22 PM11/4/12
to
Joe from NY wrote:
> Maybe it's clearer with the insertion of "even": If wishes were
> horses, /even/ beggars would [be able to] ride.
>
> If all one had to do was wish for something (in this case, a horse)
> even people without means would be able to ride.
>
> <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_wishes_were_horses,_beggars_would_ride>
Ah ok! Ora � molto pi� chiaro!
> Maybe it's clearer with the insertion of "even": If wishes were
> horses, /even/ beggars would [be able to] ride.
>
> If all one had to do was wish for something (in this case, a horse)
> even people without means would be able to ride.
>
> <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_wishes_were_horses,_beggars_would_ride>
--
Massy
ADPUF
Nov 4, 2012, 5:58:46 PM11/4/12
to
Joe from NY, 13:55, domenica 4 novembre 2012:
--
The one charm of marriage is that it makes a life of deception a
neccessity.
-- Oscar Wilde
> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 23:45:09 -0500, Massy wrote
> ADPUF wrote:
>
>>> "One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
>>
>> Non si fanno le penne con i quando e gli allora?!?!
>> Non ho capito cosa volessi intendere...
>
> Nor do I. The original meaning is lost here. These are cutesy
> rhyming phrases, but none of them carry the original meaning.
Nessun significato, era solo un gioco di parole.
> ADPUF wrote:
>
>>> "One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
>>
>> Non si fanno le penne con i quando e gli allora?!?!
>> Non ho capito cosa volessi intendere...
>
> Nor do I. The original meaning is lost here. These are cutesy
> rhyming phrases, but none of them carry the original meaning.
--
The one charm of marriage is that it makes a life of deception a
neccessity.
-- Oscar Wilde
edevils
Nov 5, 2012, 3:13:15 AM11/5/12
to
Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!
ADPUF
Nov 5, 2012, 5:05:24 PM11/5/12
to
edevils, 09:13, lunedￜ 5 novembre 2012:
> Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!
Io la sapevo come
"se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
:-)
--
The brotherhood of man is not a mere poet's dream; it is a most
depressing and humiliating reality.
-- Oscar Wilde
> Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!
"se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
:-)
--
The brotherhood of man is not a mere poet's dream; it is a most
depressing and humiliating reality.
-- Oscar Wilde
Massy
Nov 5, 2012, 7:04:19 PM11/5/12
to
ADPUF wrote:
> edevils, 09:13, luned� 5 novembre 2012:
"se mio nonno avesse avuto tre palle sarebbe stato un flipper"
--
Massy
> edevils, 09:13, luned� 5 novembre 2012:
>
>> Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!
>
>
> Io la sapevo come
> "se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
>
> :-)
Io sapevo:
>> Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!
>
>
> Io la sapevo come
> "se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
>
> :-)
"se mio nonno avesse avuto tre palle sarebbe stato un flipper"
--
Massy
Joe from NY
Nov 5, 2012, 8:08:03 PM11/5/12
to
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:04:19 -0500, Massy wrote
(in article <k79k62$o73$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> ADPUF wrote:
>> edevils, 09:13, lunedì 5 novembre 2012:
(in article <k79k62$o73$1...@speranza.aioe.org>):
> ADPUF wrote:
>> edevils, 09:13, lunedì 5 novembre 2012:
>>
>>> Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!
>>
>>
>> Io la sapevo come
>> "se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
>>
>>> -)
>
> Io sapevo:
> "se mio nonno avesse avuto tre palle sarebbe stato un flipper"
>
>
"Balls!" said the Queen. "If I had two I'd be King."
>>> Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!
>>
>>
>> Io la sapevo come
>> "se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
>>
>>> -)
>
> Io sapevo:
> "se mio nonno avesse avuto tre palle sarebbe stato un flipper"
>
>
G
Nov 6, 2012, 8:17:03 AM11/6/12
to
ADPUF <flyh...@mosq.it> wrote:
> edevils, 09:13, lunedě 5 novembre 2012:
G
> edevils, 09:13, lunedě 5 novembre 2012:
>
>> Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!
>
>
> Io la sapevo come
> "se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
>
> :-)
>
Oppure "Se mia nonna avesse le palle avrei tre nonni".
>> Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!
>
>
> Io la sapevo come
> "se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
>
> :-)
>
G
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