Brano sull'uso del Past simple o present perfect, me lo controllate :)
Niavar
nel dimostrare di
aver compreso l'uso dei due passati: Past simple o present perfect.
----------------------
Ann Jones is one of the most interesting people (I've met): she is only
twentyfive, but (she
has travelled) to over fifty different countries. Five years ago, she went a
typist in Birmingham,
but (she decided) to give up her job and see the world. Since then, her
life( has changed) completely.
The first time (she went) abroad was seven years ago, when (she was) just
eighteen. (She took) a boat to France
and then (travelled) around Europe for five weeks. She (has visited) Europe
many times since that first
trip, of course, but this holiday has been the one which (has made) her
start travelling.
She (has never forgotten) the excitement of those five weeks - altough it
was not all enjoyable.
When she (was) in Munich, somebody (stealed) her purse: (she lost) her
money, and have to work in
a restaurant for a fortnight.
She (has made) some good friends there , however, and (has returned)
severals times since then .
How did she find the money for her travels? After her first trip abroad, she
(went) home and (worked) for two years, saving all the time. Now she travels
continually, finding work when her money gets low.
(She's made) a lot of friends, she says, and (has learned) quite a few
languages. Altough (she's had) occasional difficulties and often (has been
sick), (she never tought) about giving up her travels.
"The first time (I've been abroad) has changed my life" she says "and (I
wanted) to travel ever since"
--------------------------------------
I verbi tra parentesi li ho coniugati io, potreste correggerli, magari
spiegandomi il perchè :))))
Non mi riesce molto facile capire la differenza dell'uso tra il past simple
e il present perfect.
Mi date un consiglio per capire semplicemente, quando usare uno o l'altro!
Ringrazio anticipatamente.
Ciao
Niavar
FB
> The first time (she went) abroad was seven years ago
Forse "the first time she's been abroad", perché con "the
first/second/third/etc. time" si usa il present perfect, ma non garantisco.
> trip, of course, but this holiday has been the one which (has made) her
> start travelling.
Io direi "but this holiday was (è una vacanza passata, e noi lo sappiamo)
the one which made (a quel tempo) her start travelling", ma mi
interesserebbe sapere dai madrelingua se sarebbe possibile, come ha fatto
Niavar, usare il present perfect in entrambi i casi, magari con un
significato diverso.
Di solito si può introdurre un fatto generico con il present perfect, ma se
poi l'obiettivo si restringe su un'esperienza passata si usa il simple
past.
> money, and have to work in
"And had to...". Un typo, suppongo.
> She (has made) some good friends there , however, and (has returned)
> severals times since then .
Anche "she made some good friends there" (dipende se intendi che li ha
fatti in quella particolare vacanza, simple past, o in generale)
> (she never tought) about giving up her travels.
"she's never thought". Non dico che non leggerai o sentirai "she never
thought" (non che la frase sia scorretta in sé, ma ha un significato
diverso) per "she has never thought", ma non sarebbe corretto.
> "The first time (I've been abroad) has changed my life" she says "and (I
> wanted) to travel ever since"
Io direi "the first time I've been abroad changed my life, and I have
wanted to travel ever since".
> I verbi tra parentesi li ho coniugati io, potreste correggerli, magari
> spiegandomi il perchè :))))
> Non mi riesce molto facile capire la differenza dell'uso tra il past simple
> e il present perfect.
> Mi date un consiglio per capire semplicemente, quando usare uno o l'altro!
Ho attraversato diversi momenti:
1) Non ci capisco un cavolo di present perfect e simple past
2) Il present perfect è difficilissimo da applicare
3) Il present perfect è difficilissimo ma ce la posso fare
4) No, il present perfect è davvero difficile
5) Non ricordo la regola, ma so usare il present perfect
Un consiglio molto sentito posso dartelo: valuta caso per caso. La teoria
del "e se invece..." non porta lontano, anche se io la applico ancora
quando non ho niente di meglio da fare. (faccina sorridente)
Ciao, FB
Ara Zacis
"Niavar" wrote:
>Premetto che il brano riportava i verbi all'infinito, l'esercizio consiste
>nel dimostrare di
>aver compreso l'uso dei due passati: Past simple o present perfect.
>----------------------
Perfect except where noted
>Ann Jones is one of the most interesting people (I've met): she is only
>twentyfive, but (she
>has travelled) to over fifty different countries. Five years ago, she went a
>typist in Birmingham,
(typo? something's wrong with this sentence. "She went a typist"?
Maybe "she was a typist"?)
>but (she decided) to give up her job and see the world. Since then, her
>life( has changed) completely.
>
>The first time (she went) abroad was seven years ago, when (she was) just
>eighteen. (She took) a boat to France
>and then (travelled) around Europe for five weeks. She (has visited) Europe
>many times since that first
>trip, of course, but this holiday has been the one which (has made) her
>start travelling.
I can't judge your "has made" here because the entire sentence is
weird to me.
What does "this holiday" refer to? The first holiday, I guess,
because there is no discussion of any other specific holiday which we
could refer to as "this holiday." But "the first holiday" makes no
sense with the continuation "has been the one which . . ."
Was this exercise written by a native speaker of English?
I would have written:
"She has visited Europe many times since that first trip, of course,
but that first holiday WAS the one which MADE her start travelling
frequently."
i.e. That trip made a lasting impression on her (in the past) and
caused her to change her life.
>She (has never forgotten) the excitement of those five weeks - altough it
typo == although
>was not all enjoyable.
>When she (was) in Munich, somebody (stealed) her purse: (she lost) her
--> somebody STOLE her purse
>money, and have to work in
>a restaurant for a fortnight.
(and HAD to work .. . )
>
>She (has made) some good friends there , however, and (has returned)
>severals times since then .
--> She made some good friends there . . .
(during that trip in Munich which is completely in the past now.
--her making friends there is not part of the (extended) present)
>How did she find the money for her travels? After her first trip abroad, she
>(went) home and (worked) for two years, saving all the time. Now she travels
>continually, finding work when her money gets low.
(aside: "now she travels continually"? --This sounds a little
unnatural to me. "when her money gets low"?
I'd say "Now she travels [constantly/frequently/all the time], finding
work when she starts to run [out of/low on] money.")
>(She's made) a lot of friends, she says, and (has learned) quite a few
>languages. Altough (she's had) occasional difficulties and often (has been
>sick), (she never tought) about giving up her travels.
or "has often been sick"
typo == although
--> she's never thought
(has never thought = still part of the present)
>"The first time (I've been abroad) has changed my life" she says "and (I
>wanted) to travel ever since"
--> The first time I went abroad . . . and I've wanted to travel ever
since.
(have wanted = still part of the present)
Alan Lothian
<fam.baldu...@tin.it> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:39:38 +0200, Niavar wrote:
>
> > The first time (she went) abroad was seven years ago
>
> Forse "the first time she's been abroad", perché con "the
> first/second/third/etc. time" si usa il present perfect, ma non garantisco.
No, Niavar is correct. "That was the first time she went [travelled]
abroad": passato. "This is the first time she's been abroad": proprio
oggi, nel bar a Parigi. Vedete sotto. That/this segnalano il tempo.
>
> > trip, of course, but this holiday has been the one which (has made) her
> > start travelling.
>
> Io direi "but this holiday was (è una vacanza passata, e noi lo sappiamo)
*that* holiday. *this* holiday e' adesso.
> the one which made (a quel tempo) her start travelling", ma mi
> interesserebbe sapere dai madrelingua se sarebbe possibile, come ha fatto
> Niavar, usare il present perfect in entrambi i casi, magari con un
> significato diverso.
A-Z "downthread" ha spiegato tutto. "That" holiday, come dicevo.
> Di solito si può introdurre un fatto generico con il present perfect, ma se
> poi l'obiettivo si restringe su un'esperienza passata si usa il simple
> past.
>
>
> > money, and have to work in
>
> "And had to...". Un typo, suppongo.
Speriamo cosi'.
>
> > She (has made) some good friends there , however, and (has returned)
> > severals times since then .
>
> Anche "she made some good friends there" (dipende se intendi che li ha
> fatti in quella particolare vacanza, simple past, o in generale)
Giusto. In inglese, si usa il "preterite" -- "passato semplice", se
volete -- come passato generico, diciamo. Il perfetto, all'italiana,
e' molto piu' specifico. Campo minato per i non-madrelingua. (Non e'
che l'inglese sia l'unica lingua attrezzata di campi minati. ...
faccina piangente)
>
> > (she never tought) about giving up her travels.
>
> "she's never thought". Non dico che non leggerai o sentirai "she never
> thought" (non che la frase sia scorretta in sé, ma ha un significato
> diverso) per "she has never thought", ma non sarebbe corretto.
>
>
> > "The first time (I've been abroad) has changed my life" she says "and (I
> > wanted) to travel ever since"
>
> Io direi "the first time I've been abroad changed my life, and I have
> wanted to travel ever since".
No. "The first time I went abroad." "the first time I've been
abroad"? Esempio:
"Oh, how exciting! This is the first time I've been abroad!" . Cioe',
ti parlo proprio adesso, nel mezzo di questa prima esperienza. Nel
passato: "It was the first time I'd been abroad, so like the foolish
young girl I was, I believed the Frenchman when he told me he was a
_comte_ and a _gentilhomme_. Oh, how I regret...."
--
"The past resembles the future as water resembles water" Ibn Khaldun
My .mac.com address is a spam sink.
If you wish to email me, try atlothian at blueyonder dot co dot uk
FB
> No, Niavar is correct. "That was the first time she went [travelled]
> abroad": passato. "This is the first time she's been abroad": proprio
> oggi, nel bar a Parigi. Vedete sotto. That/this segnalano il tempo.
Capisco. Non sono mai avaro di "ma non garantisco", "credo", "suppongo",
"mi pare"... (faccina sorridente)
> *that* holiday. *this* holiday e' adesso.
Hai ragione. Anche in italiano, peraltro, diremmo "quella vacanza" in
questo caso.
>> Io direi "the first time I've been abroad changed my life, and I have
>> wanted to travel ever since".
>
> No. "The first time I went abroad."
Ci risiamo!
> "the first time I've been abroad"? Esempio:
>
> "Oh, how exciting! This is the first time I've been abroad!" . Cioe',
> ti parlo proprio adesso, nel mezzo di questa prima esperienza. Nel
> passato: "It was the first time I'd been abroad, so like the foolish
> young girl I was, I believed the Frenchman when he told me he was a
> _comte_ and a _gentilhomme_. Oh, how I regret...."
Capisco. Allora piů che il "first time" č il fatto stesso che sono ancora
"abroad" a dettare il tempo, sbaglio?
Grazie delle correzioni.
Ciao, FB