Pronunciation of "jeep"
Kiuhnm
/dziIp/ and not /dzi:p/. Do you agree?
Kiuhnm
Joseph Curtin
"Kiuhnm" <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> wrote in message
news:48d3c52c$0$40302$4faf...@reader5.news.tin.it...
> Someone told me that the most common pronunciation of jeep in AmE is
> /dziIp/ and not /dzi:p/. Do you agree?
>
>
Where did /dzilp/ come from? I've never seen that pronunciation even
suggested as a possibility.
Joe from Massachusetts
Kiuhnm
I meant /dziIp/, where 'i' is "ee" like in sheep and 'I' sounds like the
"i" in "ship".
Kiuhnm
Joao do Sabao
> I meant /dziIp/, where 'i' is "ee" like in sheep and 'I' sounds like
> the "i" in "ship".
I think you meant to write /dZ/ instead of /dz/. Or am I mistaken?
/z/ = the sound of <s> in Italian "rosa"
/Z/ = the French <j>
/dZ/ = the initial sound of "già"
/dz/ = the initial sound of "zona"
--
Tchau, -João do Sabão
Kiuhnm
> On 2008-09-19 21:02:40 +0200, Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it> said:
>
>> I meant /dziIp/, where 'i' is "ee" like in sheep and 'I' sounds like
>> the "i" in "ship".
>
> I think you meant to write /dZ/ instead of /dz/. Or am I mistaken?
I thought that part was clear.
> /z/ = the sound of <s> in Italian "rosa"
> /Z/ = the French <j>
> /dZ/ = the initial sound of "già"
> /dz/ = the initial sound of "zona"
What is that? ASCII IPA?
Kiuhnm
Joao do Sabao
> Joao do Sabao wrote:
>> /z/ = the sound of <s> in Italian "rosa"
>> /Z/ = the French <j>
>> /dZ/ = the initial sound of "gi�"
>> /dz/ = the initial sound of "zona"
>
> What is that? ASCII IPA?
Yes---better known as SAMPA: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAMPA>.
--
Tchau, -Jo�o do Sab�o
Lorents
> Someone told me that the most common pronunciation of jeep in AmE is
> /dziIp/ and not /dzi:p/. Do you agree?
Mmm, fist of all in English there cannot be contrast between /i:/ and /i/,
so it is not too clear (at least to me) how to interpret your phonetic
transcription. Perhaps that person wanted to say that some people pronounce
the sound /i:/ in a non-standard way, but this wound't have anything to do
with the word "jeep" in itself. For example, in Cockney /i:/ tends to be
realised as [@i].
Joseph Curtin
Joe from Massachusetts
Enrico C
> I meant dziIp,
I gather the phonemic transcription of "jeep" pronounced by an
American should be /dZi:p/, or /dZip/ according to some, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology#Transcription_variants
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAMPA_chart_for_English .
Anyway, we can hear the pronunciation from a number of sources
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?jeep0001.wav=jeep
http://www.bartleby.com/61/wavs/61/J0026150.wav
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861739597
Words and phrases that rhyme with jeep: (75 results)
1 syllable:
beep, bleep, cheap, creep, deep, diep, griep, heap, heape, keep,
kneip, kniep, leap, leep, lepe, peep, reap, reep, riepe, schliep,
seep, seip, seipp, sepe, sheep, sleep, steep, streep, sweep, tepe,
veep, weep
[...]
http://www.rhymezone.com/r/rhyme.cgi?Word=jeep&org1=syl&org2=l&typeofrhyme=perfect
Del resto, vedi anche la stessa etimologia riferita dall'American
Heritage, che fa derivare "jeep" dalla pronuncia della lettera G
seguita da una P...
"Probably pronunciation of the letters GP, designation for this
vehicle in the manufacturer's parts numbering system : G(overnment) +
P, ..."
Kiuhnm
> Jeep rhymes with peep, leap, creep, seep, deep, beep, heap, sheep, etc.
No doubt about it.
Let me rephrase my question.
Are there one or two vowel sounds in those words?
For instance, "shit" has two vowel sounds. "Feel" also has two vowel
sounds, the last sound being determined by the 'l'.
But maybe a native speaker is not aware of these things.
Kiuhnm
Kiuhnm
> Kiuhnm wrote:
>> Someone told me that the most common pronunciation of jeep in AmE is
>> /dziIp/ and not /dzi:p/. Do you agree?
>
> Mmm, fist of all in English there cannot be contrast between /i:/ and /i/,
> so it is not too clear (at least to me) how to interpret your phonetic
> transcription.
Let's say "jeep" is pronounced gģep (in Italian, stress on 'i').
> Perhaps that person wanted to say that some people pronounce
> the sound /i:/ in a non-standard way, but this wound't have anything to do
> with the word "jeep" in itself. For example, in Cockney /i:/ tends to be
> realised as [@i].
Please read my reply to Joseph Curtin.
Kiuhnm
Kiuhnm
> Anyway, we can hear the pronunciation from a number of sources
>
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?jeep0001.wav=jeep
That's /dZi:p/.
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/wavs/61/J0026150.wav
Same here.
> http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861739597
This doesn't work on my system.
> Del resto, vedi anche la stessa etimologia riferita dall'American
> Heritage, che fa derivare "jeep" dalla pronuncia della lettera G
> seguita da una P...
>
> "Probably pronunciation of the letters GP, designation for this
> vehicle in the manufacturer's parts numbering system : G(overnment) +
> P, ..."
Interesting!
Now a question.
Listen to this:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?shit0001.wav=shit
Can you hear the two vowel sounds?
The phonetic transcription is /$It/ (or something like that), but I can
hear two vowel sounds. Does the last sound come from the 't'?
Kiuhnm
Adam Atkinson
> For instance, "shit" has two vowel sounds.
What?
Enrico C
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?shit0001.wav=shit
> Can you hear the two vowel sounds?
Ma confronta con
http://www.bartleby.com/61/wavs/15/S0351500.wav
Kiuhnm
Listen to
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?shit0001.wav=shit
Can't you hear two different "tones"?
Kiuhnm
Kiuhnm
Interesting. I thought it was a difference between British and American
English, but the Longman DoCE presents the same pronunciation for both.
Kiuhnm
Janis
news:48d4df8e$0$1077$4faf...@reader2.news.tin.it...
Ma che e'?
Non conosco nessuno che la pronuncia cosi'!
J.
Enrico C
Forse dipende solo dal fatto che gli speaker, pur essendo
professionisti, sono pur sempre esseri umani! E comunque esiste una
variabilitą nelle pronunce individuali.
Kiuhnm
> Forse dipende solo dal fatto che gli speaker, pur essendo
> professionisti, sono pur sempre esseri umani! E comunque esiste una
The difference is too big.
Just look at how Janis replied to my post.
Kiuhnm
Joseph Curtin
"Janis" <x...@miciolink.it> wrote in message
news:gb2tuh$17hb$1...@newsreader1.mclink.it...
Maybe Mel Tillis.
Joe from Massachusetts
>
Joseph Curtin
word. :>)
This pronunciation is common in conversational language in the South -
almost a two-syllable word.
Joe from Massachusetts
Joseph Curtin
> Enrico C wrote:
> > Kiuhnm wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?shit0001.wav=shit
> >> Can you hear the two vowel sounds?
> >
> > Ma confronta con
> > http://www.bartleby.com/61/wavs/15/S0351500.wav
>
This is a common idiomatic expression, which is a compliment to Bartleby.
On the other hand, "doesn't know shit about" is also idiomatic, but is not a
compliment.
"I don't give a shit" is also very common, and means something like "Non me
ne frega un ca**o".
Joe from Massachusetts
Kiuhnm
>> Now a question.
>> Listen to this:
>> http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?shit0001.wav=shit
>> Can you hear the two vowel sounds?
>> The phonetic transcription is /$It/ (or something like that), but I can
>> hear two vowel sounds. Does the last sound come from the 't'?
>>
> There are two syllables. He doesn't know shit about how to pronounce this
> word. :>)
> This pronunciation is common in conversational language in the South -
> almost a two-syllable word.
Ok Joe. But isn't it strange that a dictionary as prestigious as the
Merriam Webster has chosen such a pronunciation?
Kiuhnm
Joseph Curtin
I am amazed that the pronunciation got by the editors.
The speaker might have had some trepidation about enunciating a word he
might consider offensive, and thus was a little nervous when he spoke the
word.
Joe from Masachusetts
Enrico C
> Ok Joe. But isn't it strange that a dictionary as prestigious as
> the Merriam Webster has chosen such a pronunciation?
Ogni tanto capita di sentire pronunce strane anche nei dizionari!
Joseph Curtin
"Joseph Curtin" <josc...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:SU8Bk.153$tp1...@newsfe06.iad...
speaks with a terrible stutter. So, a Southerner who stutters is doubly
likely to make this a two-syllable word..
Joe from Massachusetts
Janis
news:SU8Bk.153$tp1...@newsfe06.iad...
>> > Listen to
>> > http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?shit0001.wav=shit
>> >
>> > Can't you hear two different "tones"?
>>
>> Ma che e'?
>> Non conosco nessuno che la pronuncia cosi'!
>>
>> J.
>>
>
> Maybe Mel Tillis.
ROFLMAO!!! None of them will understand!
Ciao, Janis
Cingar
> Someone told me that the most common pronunciation of jeep in AmE is
> /dziIp/ and not /dzi:p/. Do you agree?
No, You are mixing up phonemic and phonetic transcriptions...
What you probably meant is: the Am(erican) E(nglish) pronunciation of /
dZi:p/ is [dZiIp] .
However, my understanding is thay the actual pronunciation of phoneme /
i:/ is /iI/ in most English accents, non just in America, and not just
in "jeep".
--
Cingar
Kiuhnm
> Kiuhnm ha scritto:
>> Someone told me that the most common pronunciation of jeep in AmE is
>> /dziIp/ and not /dzi:p/. Do you agree?
>
> No, You are mixing up phonemic and phonetic transcriptions...
No, I'm not.
> What you probably meant is: the Am(erican) E(nglish) pronunciation of /
> dZi:p/ is [dZiIp] .
No. That's not what I meant. I meant exactly what I wrote.
> However, my understanding is thay the actual pronunciation of phoneme /
> i:/ is /iI/ in most English accents, non just in America, and not just
> in "jeep".
Not according to the answers I received in this ng.
Kiuhnm
Kiuhnm
> Cingar wrote:
>> Kiuhnm ha scritto:
>>> Someone told me that the most common pronunciation of jeep in AmE is
>>> /dziIp/ and not /dzi:p/. Do you agree?
>>
>> No, You are mixing up phonemic and phonetic transcriptions...
>
> No, I'm not.
>
>> What you probably meant is: the Am(erican) E(nglish) pronunciation of /
>> dZi:p/ is [dZiIp] .
If you absolutely want square brackets for phonetic transcriptions, then
consider [dZiIp] and [dZi:p].
Kiuhnm
Enrico C
> No, You are mixing up phonemic and phonetic transcriptions...
AFAIK, a phonemic trascription is the most common kind of phonetic
transcription, showing the different phonemes (as formally defined in
a language, for instance /p/ for the "p" in "pen"), as opposite to a
"strict" phonetic transcriptions showing the actual sounds pronounced
by an individual or group of people (for instance [ph], with a
superscript h, to show that the "p" in "pen" is aspirated by English
speakers) or even different ways to pronounce the same phoneme.
lentulax
"Cingar" <cingar.s...@libero.it> wrote in message
news:8b8f8271-bf79-4e36...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
In my view ( as a non-linguist BE native speaker) the sound in this type of
word usually tends towards /iI/ from /i:/ , but to varying degrees , and the
same word may be pronounced (even by the same speaker at different times)
almost anywhere along the spectum . Though the lists of rhymes for 'jeep'
given elsewhere are of course valid , the fact is that the pronunciations of
the vowels in those words are not identical anyway : for instance , I doubt
that many people prounounce the words 'peep' and 'reap' with identical
sounds in the middle .
I'm conscious of using variant versions of 'jeep' myself.
Mike
Cingar
> Cingarwrote:
> > No, You are mixing up phonemic and phonetic transcriptions...
>
> AFAIK, a phonemic trascription is the most common kind of phonetic
> transcription,
That's wrong: "phonetic" and "phonemic" are antonyms. The former
refers to "phones" (i.e. actual sounds as perceived by our ear, with
no reference to any particular language), while the latter refers to
"phonemes" (i.e. abstract sounds which can distinguish pair of words
in a particular language).
> showing the different phonemes (as formally defined in
> a language, for instance /p/ for the "p" in "pen"), as opposite to a
> "strict" phonetic transcriptions showing the actual sounds pronounced
> by an individual or group of people (for instance [ph], with a
> superscript h, to show that the "p" in "pen" is aspirated by English
> speakers) or even different ways to pronounce the same phoneme.
Correct, and notice your "opposite".
--
Cingar
Cingar
> Kiuhnm wrote:
> >Cingarwrote:
OK. And [iI] vs. [i:] are different pronunciations ("allophones") of
the same abstract phoneme: /i:/.
As far as I know, dyphthong [iI] is the most common pronunciation of
phoneme /i:/ in both main standard versions of English: BrEn and AmEn.
But I admit the difference beetween [iI] and [i:] is too tiny to be
clearly appreciated by my non-native ear, so actually I am just
trusting what phoneticians say (namely what Luciano Canepari sais in
his "Avviamento alla fonetica", Einaudi 2006).
--
Cingar
Cingar
> Cingarwrote:
> > Kiuhnm ha scritto:
> >> Someone told me that the most common pronunciation of jeep in AmE is
> >> /dziIp/ and not /dzi:p/. Do you agree?
>
> > No, You are mixing up phonemic and phonetic transcriptions...
>
> No, I'm not.
Yes you are: /i/ and /I/ cannot be separate phonemes in English, nor
can /iI/ be a two-letter representation of a phoneme. You are talking
about phones, not about phonemes.
> [...]
> > However, my understanding is thay the actual pronunciation of phoneme /
> > i:/ is /iI/ in most English accents, non just in America, and not just
> > in "jeep".
>
> Not according to the answers I received in this ng.
This implies my answer is not an answer you received on this NG...
Fine.
--
Cingar
Kiuhnm
> As far as I know, dyphthong [iI] is the most common pronunciation of
> phoneme /i:/ in both main standard versions of English: BrEn and AmEn.
>
> But I admit the difference beetween [iI] and [i:] is too tiny to be
> clearly appreciated by my non-native ear, so actually I am just
> trusting what phoneticians say (namely what Luciano Canepari sais in
> his "Avviamento alla fonetica", Einaudi 2006).
But you'll certainly be able to hear the difference between
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?shit0001.wav=shit
and
http://www.bartleby.com/61/wavs/15/S0351500.wav
Kiuhnm
Enrico C
> > AFAIK, a phonemic trascription is the most common kind of phonetic
> > transcription,
>
> That's wrong:
[...]
Avevo trovato quella definizione su
Introduction to phonetic transcription
http://www.antimoon.com/how/pronunc-trans.htm
che pare fonte divulgativa ma informata:
"The most common type of phonetic transcription is called phonemic
transcription..."
...
"The other type of phonetic transcription is much more detailed than
phonemic transcription. In "narrow transcription"...,"
I sacri testi della linguistica definiscono altrimenti?
In tal caso, me ne farò una ragione... no problem :)
Tuttavia, la definizione di Antimoon a me, profano, pare più
intuitiva e corrispondente all'uso comune dell'aggettivo "phonetic",
riferito a qualsiasi trascrizione, comprese quelle basate sui fonemi
di una lingua.
Superplebeo©
> Someone told me that the most common pronunciation of jeep in AmE is
> /dziIp/ and not /dzi:p/. Do you agree?
Gippe!
Super P.