Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Pratyatosa]

I've been taking a few notes also, but I could take more if I thought that anyone actually cared.

The worst thing about the transcribing, IMHO, is when the transcriber inserts words that Srila Prabhupada never said because the transcriber wants to improve on Srila Prabhupada's English, or the transcriber thinks that Srila Prabhupada made a mistake. Recently, I came across an instance where the transcriber inserted the word "not," which resulted in causing the sentence that Srila Prabhupada spoke to have exactly the opposite meaning! The transcriber obviously thought that Srila Prabhupada had made a mistake, but it was the transcriber who made a mistake, not Srila Prabhupada! The result was that the complete context no longer made sense, and the erroneous transcription simply made Srila Prabhupada look foolish! :-(

Ys, Ptd

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Gauranga Sundara Das <gauranga...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hare Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

While matching up Srila Prabhupada's MP3 audio files with the VedaBase I have come across a number of mistakes, which I want to bring to your attention.

The following Bhagavad-gita lecture

Bg_07-14_HAM_1969-09-08_Let_Us_Die_Like_etc

is very badly transcribed in the VedaBase and needs an overhaul. There are so many mistakes and omissions if we compare it to the audio, especially some 11 minutes into the audio. Following are just some examples in the original context. The portions missing in the VedaBase are in square brackets:

Now you utilize this form of life to make a solution [to the problem. Don't die. Before death comes you make a solution.] Don’t die like cats and dogs.” No.

“One who dies after attempting to make a solution to the problems, he is brahmana.” SHOULD BE [of] the problems.

Missing portion altogether: [So this Krishna consciousness movement is for this purpose, to make a solution of all the problems of life]

Missing word: [What] do you think, our Austrian friend?

Missing portion: [He is from Austria. Very good. So you try to understand this Krishna consciousness movement and just start a Centre in your country. No chance? Why not.] They are also human being. Why not? ... SHOULD BE "There are also human being. Otherwise it reads the people of Austria, THEY are also human being.

A large portion of the transcript is missing at the end of this lecture. Normally I encounter so many problems with the edited audio itself. What is relatively new is the mistakes in the VedaBase. I had recently another class with mistakes in the VedaBase. These things come increasingly to light when comparing the audio with the VedaBase. They need to be corrected, especially as the Vanipedia progresses and certainly if a new version of the VedaBase is contemplated. I would imagine it is difficult to re-do thousands of quotes in the Vanipedia once the audio and the VedaBase are completely matched up.

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to spot and perhaps help to rectify this sort of problems.

Your servant in the service of Srila Prabhupada,

Gauranga Sundara dasa

[Madhudvisa dasa]

Why not make corrected transcripts and send them to Ekanatha Prabhu at:

eka...@gmail.com

He is working on a new release of the Vedabase and I am sure would be happy to get the corrections.

It is good that someone has transcribed and that means it is easy to make the few corrections, so correct them and send them to Ekananta...

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Madhudvisa dasa

www.KrishnaStore.com

[Bhaktatraveler]

Please Prabhu, make it as it is said, no matter what others have done previously or might erroneously do in the future! Someone has to do "As It Is"! Or that much will be forever lost.

RCBhakti

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: Gauranga Sundara Das <gauranga...@gmail.com>
Cc: Visnu Murti <vani...@pamho.net>; Ekanath (das) ACBSP (BA N.Carolina - USA) <ekanat...@pamho.net>; Sean Carolan <scar...@gmail.com>; istag...@googlegroups.com; Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>; Michael Zaniboni <za...@gmx.de>
Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 5:57:41 AM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Pratyatosa]

That's easy for you to say, Madhudvisa Prabhu, but there are some problems:

1. What file format should the transcriptions be in in order to not lose the italics, the bold, and the Sanskrit diacritics?

2. Do the Archives already have more up-to-date versions of the transcriptions?

3. If I were to send in an entire edited transcription, especially if it were a long one, it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack for the Archive devotees to see what had actually been changed, and whether or not they agree with the change(s).

4. There are also errors in the Sanskrit, but I'm not qualified to correct those errors.

5. Would the Archives actually use what we send them, or would they simply ignore it?

Here, for example, is something that I just now added to my notes:

10. 690209LE.LA:

Suppose one is diseased, suffering. If you engage good, qualified physician, good medicine, and therefore there is no guarantee of cure. No. There is no guarantee.

...should be:

Suppose one is diseased, suffering. "If you engage good, qualified physician, good medicine, and therefore there is guarantee of cure." No. There is no guarantee.

Since Srila Prabhupada never actually said the word "no" in the second sentence, the 2nd version above is how I think that it should have been transcribed, but maybe the Archives devotees have a different opinion. Where are the transcription standards spelled out? There should be an editorial policy. Where is it?

Is anyone actually interested in seeing the rest of my notes, or am I simply wasting my time?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Bhaktatraveler]

I'm greatly interested, but out of my league in the tech of it all. I do not comment because I know nothing about this stuff. But the result is of great interest and I appreciate your service in this matter to Srila Prabhupada. It takes great courage to be stead fast. What you doing is as courageous in your service as anything I have done in mine!!!!

Sorry for not giving do support earlier! Even if it's just TV, lol. No really. I'm sorry from the peanut gallery.

Hare Krsna

RCBhakti

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>
Cc: Gauranga Sundara Das <gauranga...@gmail.com>; Visnu Murti <vani...@pamho.net>; Ekanath (das) ACBSP (BA N.Carolina - USA) <ekanat...@pamho.net>; Sean Carolan <scar...@gmail.com>; istag...@googlegroups.com; Michael Zaniboni <za...@gmx.de>
Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 8:31:22 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[july9th]

> 1. What file format should the transcriptions be in in order to not lose the
> italics, the bold, and the Sanskrit diacritics?

Best in MS Office format like .doc with sca goudy font. This can then
be easily imported to the vedabase.

>
> 2. Do the Archives already have more up-to-date versions of the
> transcriptions?

probably not or it would be on the vedabase but no harm in asking.

> 3. If I were to send in an entire edited transcription, especially if it
> were a long one, it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack for the
> Archive devotees to see what had actually been changed, and whether or not
> they agree with the change(s).

Seems they have proof-readers that are skilled at checking texts.

>
> 4. There are also errors in the Sanskrit, but I'm not qualified to correct
> those errors.

Proof reader will sort that.

>
> 5. Would the Archives actually use what we send them, or would they simply
> ignore it?

I doubt if they would ignore it.

> Here, for example, is something that I just now added to my notes:
>
> 10. 690209LE.LA:
>

> *Suppose one is diseased, suffering. If you engage good, qualified

> physician, good medicine, and therefore there is no guarantee of cure. No.

> There is no guarantee.*
>
> ...should be:
>
> *Suppose one is diseased, suffering. "If you engage good, qualified

> physician, good medicine, and therefore there is guarantee of cure." No.

> There is no guarantee.*

>
> Since Srila Prabhupada never actually said the word "no" in the second
> sentence, the 2nd version above is how I think that it should have been
> transcribed, but maybe the Archives devotees have a different opinion. Where
> are the transcription standards spelled out? There should be an editorial
> policy. Where is it?
>
> Is anyone actually interested in seeing the rest of my notes, or am I simply
> wasting my time?
>

Might be a good idea to make this thread available as a repository of
required corrections for public awareness.



> Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Gauranga]

Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu

PAMHO. AGTSP.

You made some relevant points. Thank you for that. Perhaps there should be a collaborate effort to improve the VedaBase.

Vanipedia are doing just that. There are many devotees from all over the world involved, they have clear editorial standards and through its self-correcting mechanism the Vani improves constantly, just like the Wikipedia. However, this is only possible through a collaborate working model it seems. The ethos is a different one. Moreover, it is open source. This seems to be the way and model for the future.

These things will increasingly pop up as devotees try to match Srila Prabhupada's transcribed words with the original audio. Wouldn't it be nice to have a completely matching library of Srila Prabhupada's spoken and transcribed words?

The VedaBase is no doubt a great research tool but I am more concerned that these mistakes are corrected in the Vanipedia. Maybe there could be some sort of facility where the source material can be corrected collaboratively. From there the VedaBase could then be easily updated. What do you think?

Your servant

Gauranga Sundara Dasa

[Bhaktatraveler]

So like Wiki, the ultimate say on what is included, is up to the site controllers? Or up to just any Joe that has a computer? Changing as the wind blows?

Hare Krsna

RCBhakti

---

From: Gauranga <gauranga...@gmail.com>
To: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
Cc: Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>; Visnu Murti <vani...@pamho.net>; Ekanath (das) ACBSP (BA N.Carolina - USA) <ekanat...@pamho.net>; Sean Carolan <scar...@gmail.com>; "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>; Michael Zaniboni <za...@gmx.de>
Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 11:10:13 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Mother Malati Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

You are a soft-hearted woman, and therefore you prefer to give the VedaBase transcribers the benefit of the doubt. I appreciate your sentiment, but it's also true that women, as a group, tend to lack powers of discrimination. While it's true that there are many examples of honest transcribing mistakes, there are also a few examples of "mistakes" which are obviously self-motivated, the example I've cited being one of them (IMHO).

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:17 AM, <MALATIDEVI@aol.com> wrote:

It may well be that the transcriber simply made a mistake, something that conditioned souls are prone to doing,  minus assumption that they "obviously thought that Srila Prabhupdada had made a mistake."

[Pratyatosa]

Good points Prabhu, but I'm still not convinced that editing the transcriptions would be time well spent unless it were done under the direct supervision of the Archives devotees, preferably in a publicly accessible Wikipedia style format. As it is now, the Archives devotees are simply ignoring us. They seem to have lost much of their motivation to serve the Vaisnavas, now that their service is no longer so passionately business/profit oriented. :-(

Therefore, for now I'll simply stick to trying to keep the following web page up-to-date:

http://causelessmercy.com/a/__SPs_SRTprojectNotes.txt

Ys, Ptd

[Pratyatosa]

Sorry about that. The URL is:

http://causelessmercy.com/a/__ATSprojectNotes.txt

Please bookmark it for future reference.

Ys, Ptd

[Pratyatosa]

Another reason why a publicly accessible Wikipedia style format would be ideal for correcting the transcriptions is to identify the devotees in the recordings for the historical record. For example:

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/710720RC.NY.htm

Who are devotees 1, 2, 3 and 4? One of them, as I recall, was Gopal Krishna Prabhu. He has a very unique voice, so it should not be very difficult to identify him. Another devotee seemed to be Srila Prabhipada's personal servant. How difficult would it be to figure out who he is?

As I've said in the past, the same sort of thing should be done for all of the pictures:

1. Where was the picture taken?

2. When was the picture taken?

3. Who is in the picture with Srila Prabhupada and how/why did they happen to be there at that time?

4. Who took the picture?

5. What is the story behind the picture?

Why is this not part of the VaniPedia Project? It seems that someone has his priorities mixed up. How is compiling a bunch of quotes important, when devotees possessing priceless knowledge are leaving our association left and right?

Ys. Ptd

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Madhudvisa dasa]

Hare Krishna Pratyatosa Prabhu

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapda!

With all due respect Vanipedia does not even understand the importance of using Prabhuapda's original books. And the quotes they are compiling are simply folio searches pasted into it. I spent two months working with Vanipedia and my advice was that such a project requires a data-base driven system where they can index the works of Srila Prabhupada and have all the references pointing back into the same database. Such a system would be amazingly powerful and as the indexing was being done one could access the information in so many ways through the database.

Actually in those two months I was at Vanipedia I developed what is now PrabhuapdaBooks.com as a prototype as to how the compiling of the Prabhupada quotes could be done quickly and efficiently using a data-base model.

Unfortunately I have had practically no time to work on PrabhuapdaBooks.com but the concept is to include everything you are asking for. Including the audio with the syncronized text that you are now doing, the images with a wiki-type interface allowing the visitors to the site to engage in devotional service by tagging the photos. I have been thinking about how to tag and organize the photos and have a lot of good plans in that area.

The real heart of PrabhupadaBooks.com is the database and the idea is all the Vani will be in the database and will be accessible in so many different ways, all pointing back to the same original records in the database.

The Vanipedia system is not like that. They use the mediawiki software platform and they simply paste in folio searches. And the Mediawiki system has no idea at all what the text is. The system can not do anything with it. All they are doing is pasting in folio searches and all the users of that system will ever be able to do is search through those "articles" and read them.

It is a little hard for me to explain this but you know as a computer systems person that if you have a database and you have records in the database and if you build up more and more information on those records in the database then you can use that information to retrieve those database records in so many different ways.

We have already duplicated the folio on www.PrabhuapdaBooks.com, I have a much more powerful searching system also that I have not had time to put up, but we want to take this one step further and produce a human created index by reading each paragraph "folio" in Prabhuapda's teaching and tagging that to the subject matter Srila Prabhuapda is covering in that paragraph. So then the computer will "know" what Prabhuapda is talking about in that paragraph and using the tags users will have an amazingly powerful tool to get information on any subject they may want to from the teachings of Srila Prabhuapda.

I have the system to do this indexing working now and I have indexed a few things as a test. The display format and layout is not very nice now and ultimately every quote will have a single sentence heading that summarizes the quote and will have the main points in the text highlighted and it will be displayed in a nice format... But if you go to PrabhuapdaBooks.com and see on the left hand side there are two tabs, "Table of Contents" and "Index". "Table of Contents" is the familiar "Table of Contents" we have on the folio. But click on "Index" and check that out. Ultimately on the Index tab you will be able to access the complete teachings of Srila Prabhuapda by subject. It works the same as the Table of Contents, you can click on the + signs to expand the branches of the tree to deeper and deeper levels.

If you spend a little time clicking on the branches and looking at the quotes after a while you will realize the power of this system. Particularly as you know about database systems. It is not like Vanipedia where they do a search in the folio and paste it into the wiki and all the system can do with that is just output the whole article. Here we are indexing on a paragraph by paragraph basis and the system already has quite a bit of information about these paragraphs from the folio and now it is getting a lot more information about the paragraphs from the human-created index and all that information can be used to produce output.

It is a very powerful idea. Like in the Table of Contents you can select the check boxes beside the things you want to search in. If you just want to search in the letters you can click on the letters and that is all you will get in the search results. You can make any combination of ticks and that is what you will get in the results. We will also have the same ticks on the Table of Contents so you can search in particular subjects.

We have the idea of creating an automatically generated wiki out of this also. The online encyclopidea of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. The articles for this will be automatically generated from the index and as devotees add more and more quotes into the index the quotes will automatically and magically appear on the correct wiki articles...

Although this is the same idea as Vanipedia this is an incredibly more powerful and efficient and effective way of doing it. Unfortunately, no matter how I tried to explain it, Visnu Murti could not understand the benefits of having a database driven system... I warned him that the wiki system is not suitable ultimately for what he is trying to do with it and the Vanipedia people will find that out ultimately. It is not a useful site actually. PrabhupadaBooks.com is already a very useful site with a huge number of devotees using it on a daily basis, and that is just with the online folio, and it will become so much more useful as the index starts to grow.

At PrabhuapdaBooks.com we want to put every item of the Prabhuapda Vani in the database and allow the users to index and tag every item. So that will include for example the images.

This is actually I believe the most important project for me at the moment and I believe it truly has the potential to really open up and make the teachings of Srila Prabhuapda accessible in a way that was never possible before. We need to create a team to work on this. I can not do it myself. I can create the computer system to run it but we need to create a dynamic team of devotees who want to index and tag and identify all the vani of Srila Prabhupada.

We can very easily, with this system, allow devotees to report errors in the transcriptions and they will be recorded in the database against the exact record where the problem is, and someone can check them and approve the corrections and the system will keep a historical audit trail of all this activity.

So PrabhuapdaBooks.com is a big idea and now we can only see a small tip of the iceberg.

2011 will be the year for PrabhupadaBooks.com to develop and really move forward. I am clearing out all my other responsibilities and will be working on this project only for the next five years. And hope that we can get a team together and complete indexing and tagging all of Srila Prabhupada's vani within that five years. And if we can do this it will be a great service to Srila Prabhupada, the Vaisnavas and unlimited generations of Vaisnavas to come in the future.

So Pratyatosa Prabhu if we can work together on this then they say "two heads are better than one," and if many other devotees can join in this great attempt then I think it is possible we can finish it within five years...

Please go to PrabhupadaBooks.com and click on the "Index" tag on the left hand side and click on some of the + signs beside the topics and click on some of the topics and see if you can work out what is going on and imagine the power of this system if the index was complete and comprehensive...

Looking forward to hearing from you on this.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa






www.KrishnaStore.com

[Sean Carolan]

I agree that the Vedabase should be put into a database format;
something like MySQL or PostgreSQL. I even attempted to do this on my
own a few years ago, using the raw *.NFO folio files as the source.
Unfortunately these attempts failed due to my lack of programming
skill and the unique format of these files. It looks like Madhudvisa
has made some progress on this front.

Once Srila Prabhupada's works are properly set up in a relational
database, many other possibilities open up for research, data mining,
faster searches, etc. The Folio format is a dinosaur that dates back
to the days of DOS. A fully web-enabled vedabase would be awesome.

That's my 2 paisa for what it's worth. Sorry I am not able to
contribute more time to this; just got a new job here in Austin...

ys

Sudama

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Madhudvisa Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Thank you very much for going through the trouble of getting <http://prabhupadabooks.com/> unblocked for me. The fact that it's now unblocked is further proof that the local school, wherefrom I usually get my Internet access, does not block "religious" websites. :-)

Your plans are indeed glorious. 21st century preaching at it's best! Why waste time with preaching to a local congregation when we can preach to the whole world via the Internet!?

Srila Prabhupada says "vanaprastha at age 50" (paraphrased). Devotees need to follow your example, and break free from their entanglements. Maintaining a garden, cows, a house, and a car are the business of grhasthas. Move into a small, efficient apartment in town within easy walking distance of everything that you might need. Why waste time maintaining a house and a car? Clinging to grhastha life after age 50 is what sudras do! Is it not?

ISKCON is on the wrong track because they are still paperware oriented. There is no longer any need for paperware. All of Srila Prabhupad's original books are there on <http://causelessmercy.com/> and <http://prabhupadabooks.com/>.

Perhaps you've noticed that, for the past several months, whenever I want to quote something that Srila Prabhupada said or wrote, I usually use <http://prabhupadabooks.com/>, not <http://causelessmercy.com/> Here is an example of the main reason for my preference:

http://prabhupadabooks.com/search.php?CB=&inputString=%22petty+cash%22

The phrase, "petty cash" only occurs once in the VedaBase, and the above link causes the phrase to be highlighted within the context that it was written. You can't do that with <http://causelessmercy.com/>.

I agree with what you say about <http://www.vanipedia.org/>. I've gone there in the past, looked around a bit, but couldn't find anything that gave me a good reason to return. IMHO, they are also on the wrong track. They should be helping you instead of wasting their time in that way.

I promise to spend more time checking out the sublime intricacies of <http://prabhupadabooks.com/> as time permits.

BTW, what database software are you using? Does it have anything to do either of the software packages that Sudama Prabhu mentioned (MySQL or PostgreSQL)?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Madhudvisa dasa]

Hare Krishna Pratyatosa Prabhu

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapda!

Thanks for the encouragement Prabhu. Yes. There are unlimited possibilities for PrabhuapdaBooks.com to expand and go forward because of the database design but no possibilities for VaniPedia to expand beyond what is currently available at their website without them completely changing their system and completely redoing all their indexing. They are locked into simply displaying the searches they have copied and pasted from the folio individually and fully. The wikimedia software can not do anything else.

If you can help with PrabhupadaBooks.com that would be wonderful Prabhu. The first step is understanding how it works, then you can understand the possibilities.

The site is written in php using the mysql relational database system.

It is modeled on the folio. There is one record in the database for each "folio" and that generally means one record per paragraph of the text.

Folio is called "Folio Views" and the idea is the folios can be organized any way you want and displayed in many different views. And that is what is happening in the index at www.PrabhupadaBooks.com It is a different view of the database.

This "Folio Views" is actually a very powerful concept.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa


www.KrishnaStore.com

[Ken McLEOD]

Nice to hear you are still about Sudama Prabhu, do you still have a website or blog of what you are up to? I used to love checking into your travels, veggie growing, and nice KC lifestyle.
Hope you are all very well
 
your servant
Kurma 
 
> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 03:23:57 -0600

> Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

> From: scar...@gmail.com
> To: madhu...@gmail.com
> CC: praty...@gmail.com; istag...@googlegroups.com; vani...@pamho.net; za...@gmx.de

> --
> You have received this email because you are a member of the Google Prabhupadanuga Group. To post to our group for all the world to see, send an email to <istag...@googlegroups.com>. Getting too many emails? Please go to <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/subscribe> and change your email settings, or request Pratyatosa Dasa (praty...@gmail.com) to change your settings for you. To cancel your membership, send an email to <istagosthi+...@googlegroups.com>. For more options, go to <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi>.

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Prabhus, it's not unusual for me to not be able to understand what Srila Prabhupada is saying until I read the transcription. Sometimes, even after reading the transcription, I still can't make out what Srila Prabhupada is saying. I figure it must be that the transcriber has an ear that's better trained than mine, the transcriber has access to a better copy of the recording, or a combination of the two.

But here's an extreme example of just the opposite:

From <http://causelessmercy.com/a/__ATSprojectNotes.txt>:

15. <http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/760629SB.NV.htm?TP=4944>: "So it is stated here, pretya iha, if we (indistinct) death."

<http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=BN&SN=33&TP=736>: "So it is stated here, pretya iha, if we violate this nature's law, then we will suffer here and after death." (Not the least bit "indistinct!" What was the transcriber thinking?)

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hare Krishna Pratyatosa Prabhu

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapda!

[Bhaktatraveler]

It may take a comity of 3 or more listening to the same recording, confirming as independent audio witnesses, to get the best transcription.

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>

Cc: istag...@googlegroups.com; vani...@pamho.net; Sean Carolan <scar...@gmail.com>; Michael Zaniboni <za...@gmx.de>
Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 12:55:23 PM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Madhudvisa dasa]

Hare Krishna Pratyatosa Prabhu

The thing is the Vedanase has never been checked.

There are many, many problems with the transcriptions and also some of
the tapes are edited.

Archives never put the time in to check these things.

Your servant

Madhudvisa dada

--
www.KrishnaStore.com

[Pratyatosa]

There was definitely more of an emphasis on quantity, rather than quality. That's what happens when the motivation is profit (selling a CD for US$600 that only costs 75 cents to duplicate and that can be downloaded for free from the Internet in a few seconds!), rather than simply trying to please Krishna without attachment to any kind of material reward.

Ys, Ptd

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hare Krishna Pratyatosa Prabhu

The thing is the Vedanase has never been checked.

There are many, many problems with the transcriptions and also some of
the tapes are edited.

Archives never put the time in to check these things.

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa

[Madhudvisa dasa]

Yes. But they have done a good service to put all this together Prabhu.

It is a very good starting point. It is much easier to correct a few errors than to transcribe the whole class. I know it practically. I am transcribing some of these new lectures and to transcribe one hour takes a whole day working at it solidly for me. It would take longer for someone who has not been hearing Prabhuapda for so many years also. But you can just listen to the tape and correct the transcription as it is playing basically. Also the timings can almost be done in real-time while you are listening to the tape if one gets practiced at it.

So we have to be grateful for the service of the archives.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa

www.KrishnaStore.com

[Pratyatosa]

You are correct. I may sound a little ungrateful at times, but I am actually very grateful for the amazing service that the Bhaktivedanta Archives' devotees have done. They did all of the "heavy lifting" (the tedious, super labor-intensive work). Now we get to do the fun part. :-)

BTW, there are a few MP3s on <http://causelessmercy.com/a/> which are missing the corresponding transcriptions. Right now, I am simply skipping them.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Madhudvisa dasa]

Hare Krishna Prabhu

I know the archives are working on the missing transcriptions and also new transcriptions for the unreleased tapes. I know he has done more than 100 new ones so far and more to come and will all be included in the next release of the Vedabase. So the missing transcriptions will come with the next Vedabase release for sure.

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa

www.KrishnaStore.com

[Gauranga Sundara Das]

Hare Krishna!

PAMHO. AGTSP.

Comparing a class from the VedaBase with the MP3 audio I found there were missing a few bits in the VedaBase, which are in the audio. I want to share these with you. The class is the following:

Bg_04-24_NY_1966-08-12_Varnasrama_Dharma

The missing part is:

He must come from that disciplic succession and he must be convinced. Nobody can be ? in the brahman condition of the Absolute Truth. Any time. These two qualifications.

The context is:

...There is a paramparā; there is disciplic succession. So one who is coming into that disciplic succession and by coming from that disciplic succession, he is firmly convinced in the Absolute, he is firmly conversant in the Absolute Truth, he is  guru. Two qualifications. He must come from that disciplic succession and he must be convinced. Nobody can be ? in the brahman condition of the Absolute Truth. Any time. These two qualifications. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena [Bg. 4.34].

In Katha Upanisad it is said tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]...

Hope this is helpful,

Your servant,

Gauranga Sundara dasa

[tim lee]

Someone told me that some of Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami's works were added to the folio database. Is this correct? "The more I chant, the drier it gets" ... "I have to battle constantly with doubts that Krishna is a myth" ... "I am the guru of pills" ... "I am reading poems written by Salvador Dali's homosexual lover about 'the cockroach who falls in love with a butterfly' " ... "reading poems while listening to Dizzie Gillespie music"...  "I am now consulting with Narayana Maharaja" ... "Sanitorium, A Love Story (about SDG's illicit relations with Pranada)" this needs to be read by others? And why is the current BBT writer and editor Jayadvaita promoting these materials as bona fide in every single ISKCON temple in the world? And even if this is not formally part of the folio, informally it is because his writings are sold side by side with Srila Prabhupada's everywhere in ISKCON. ys pd

[Bhaktatraveler]

This is the thing, the results. Is it all done haphazard and piecemeal, if we are still with inaccurate transcriptions? To many chiefs and not enough Indians or the blind leading the blind? Or just plain incompetence, elevated way beyond their actual ability? I mean, are these devotees 5 yr olds? That kind of result from adults in my house will get you a very good verbal bashing. I do not let incapable people occupy a service they can not effectively do. Makes no sense. Let everyone be expert and in that place where their expertise can blossom. Square pegs go in square holes, round in round.

Hare Krsna

Caturbahu das

---

From: Gauranga Sundara Das <gauranga...@gmail.com>

To: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
Cc: Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>; Visnu Murti <vani...@pamho.net>; Ekanath (das) ACBSP (BA N.Carolina - USA) <ekanat...@pamho.net>; Sean Carolan <scar...@gmail.com>; "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>; Michael Zaniboni <za...@gmx.de>

Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 10:58:57 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Bhaktatraveler]

Let the dead wood die soon!

RCB

---

From: tim lee <ange...@yahoo.com>
To: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>; istag...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>; Visnu Murti <vani...@pamho.net>; Ekanath (das) ACBSP (BA N.Carolina - USA) <ekanat...@pamho.net>; Sean Carolan <scar...@gmail.com>; "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>; Michael Zaniboni <za...@gmx.de>; ange...@yahoo.com
Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 11:30:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[mark mclaughlin]

It was obvious to me a while back that it all has to be done over. As soon as loyal followers can regain possession of the Vani, they can oversee the project of putting it together properly.  From scratch.  The beginning.  With a clear plan.  And serious oversight.  With no sudra like cheaters or wishy washy sentimentalists on the team of transcribers.  Brahmanas and their choice of loyal clerks for any clerk like duties to be delegated. Lots of service for the future.  For now, we use the hodgepodge to the best of our ability and accept reality for what it is.  Changed and distorted.  What we have to date is more than just "a little fault in every endeavor".  It borders on gross incompetence.

[Pratyatosa]

On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 1:47 PM, mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

It was obvious to me a while back that it all has to be done over.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water! Srila Prabhupada's tape trancriptions just need to be double-checked. That's all. Even a "dime novel" is proof read before it is published. Yet the VedaBase was published for the asking price of $600 with no double-checking of the transcriptions! I can understand the double-checking being postponed for the 1st edition in order to "get it out there" as quickly as possible, but what is their excuse for later editions? Obviously, up to and including VedaBase 2003, the BA policy has been "quantity rather than quality."

The BA people seem to think that archiving means transcribing, but this is no longer the case. We are now living in the digital age. To make exact digital copies of the originals in such a way that even an expert doing an A-B test can't tell the copy from the original is easy with today's advanced technology, and the resultant lossless copies of ALL of Srila Prabhupada's tapes would even fit on the hard drive of the laptop computer that Wal-Mart was selling on Black Friday for only US$199!

For one thing, how do we know that any given transcription is accurate? Here's a case wherein the word "no" was inexcusably inserted by the transcriber into the middle of one of Srila Prabhupada's sentences, thus giving the sentence the exact opposite meaning! From <http://causelessmercy.com/a/__ATSprojectNotes.txt>:

10. Concerning <http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=jz&SN=4&TP=2729>:

Suppose one is diseased, suffering. If you engage good, qualified physician, good medicine, and therefore there is no guarantee of cure. No. There is no guarantee.

...should be:

Suppose one is diseased, suffering. "If you engage good, qualified physician, good medicine, and therefore there is guarantee of cure." No. There is no guarantee.

By inserting a word that Srila Prabhupada never said, the misguided transcriber is actually making Srila Prabhpada look foolish! :-(

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[rainer hahn]

Just listened to a lecture where I heard Prabhupada saying, many fallen brahmanas in India.
Then I looked it up and it said foreign brahmanas.
"If there are so many foreign brahmanas in India and I am making brahmana in the Western countries, if they are still fallen, then what is this attempt? My attempt is futile. So kindly be responsible, those who are second initiated."

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/760521SB.HON.htm

--

[mark mclaughlin]

According to the examples that Pratyatosa and Rammohan just gave, all "finished product" needs to be GONE OVER FROM BEGINNING TO END. This is pretty close to being DONE OVER. Especially considering that new technology or techiniques may exist to improve upon the structure of the "finshed products" making them more user friendly.

[Bhaktatraveler]

Yes DONE OVER, is the operative suggestion. Bk Mark and I have to many time looked for a thing and not found it in the folio, but it will be in the original books or conversations books that I have annotated. To many known to exist searches come up empty. Many implying more than three times! I do not think it is an omission as much as it is a glitch in the programing. But seems to me I do remember it going both ways though!

Hare Krsna

RCBhakti

---

From: mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 10:14:58 AM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[mark mclaughlin]

I don't think you and I are ever going to be appreciated or respected in Iskcon circles, neither in "reform minus DVD circles". We will never gain popularity while Monsanto can still feed neophytes via their supermarkets and government food (sic) bins. I have some old habits that are hard to break, but at least they were not created based on twisting the instructions of a Mahabhagavat to support my lifestyle and then calling it exemplary devotional service. Of course given the latest MAJOR psych op in Arizona, and the public admission that the magnetic poles of the earth are actually swiftly shifting, global mass wildlife die-offs, the now admitted death of the gulf of mexico, etc...  I think you and I may be taken more seriously by sincerely unmovitvated folks quite shortly.  The fakers, shills, and Iskcon establishment hacks will get what they really want and deserve simultaneously.  What that is I cannot predict for it is above my paygrade, but I am sure it will be distasteful to sane gentle people.  I remember some quote about the most obnoxious place in the universe.  Doesn't sound like a nice place to visit for anyone less than Narada Muni. Tick tock.

[Pratyatosa]

I don't have the conversation books. Are the exact same errors that
are in VedaBase 2003 also in the conversation books?

Ys, Ptd

[Jack Eskildsen]

This is probably true but still those who are most faithful to Prabhupada are in the best position in the universe, as humble as a blade of grass and lower than the straw in the street. It may not appear like it on the surface but that is the best position in the universe to be in. There is no government in the Kali-yuga to punish the Kali-chelas, upstart mental speculators who want to kill guru to become guru etc. So who knows how long it will go on but it does say in the Bible the meek will inherit the Earth. I am not a big fan of the Bible in comparison to Srimad Bhagavatam etc. but the supersoul was dictating the Bible on some level as well so I like the notion that the meek will inherit the Earth. It goes along well with this quote from Srimad Bhagavatam 9.24.59: TRANSLATION Although the demons who take possession of the government are dressed like men of government, they do not know the duty of the government. Consequently, by the arrangement of God, such demons, who possess great military strength, fight with one another, and thus the great burden of demons on the surface of the earth is reduced. The demons increase their military power by the will of the Supreme, so that their numbers will be diminished and the devotees will have a chance to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. PURPORT As stated in Bhagavad-gītā (4.8), paritrāṇāya sādhūnāḿ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. The sādhus, the devotees of the Lord, are always eager to advance the cause of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the conditioned souls may be released from the bondage of birth and death. But the asuras, the demons, impede the advancement of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and therefore Kṛṣṇa arranges occasional fights between different asuras who are very much interested in increasing their military power. The duty of the government or king is not to increase military power unnecessarily; the real duty of the government is to see that the people of the state advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For this purpose, Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā (4.13), cātur-varṇyaḿ mayā sṛṣṭaḿ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: "According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me." There should be an ideal class of men who are bona fide brāhmaṇas, and they should be given all protection. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Kṛṣṇa is very fond of brāhmaṇas and cows, The brāhmaṇas promulgate the cause of advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and the cows give enough milk to maintain the body in the mode of goodness. The kṣatriyas and the government should be advised by the brāhmaṇas. Next, the vaiśyas should produce enough foodstuffs, and the śūdras, who cannot do anything beneficial on their own, should serve the three higher classes (the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas and vaiśyas). This is the arrangement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead so that the conditioned souls will be released from the material condition and return home, back to Godhead. This is the purpose of Kṛṣṇa's descent on the surface of the earth (paritrāṇāya sādhūnāḿ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]). Everyone must understand Kṛṣṇa's activities (janma karma ca me divyam [Bg. 4.9]). If one understands the purpose of Kṛṣṇa's coming to this earth and performing His activities, one is immediately liberated. This liberation is the purpose of the creation and Kṛṣṇa's descent upon the surface of the earth. Demons are very much interested in advancing a plan by which people will labor hard like cats, dogs and hogs, but Kṛṣṇa's devotees want to teach Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that people will be satisfied with plain living and Kṛṣṇa conscious advancement. Although demons have created many plans for industry and hard labor so that people will work day and night like animals, this is not the purpose of civilization. Such endeavors are jagato'hitaḥ; that is, they are meant for the misfortune of the people in general. Kṣayāya: such activities lead to annihilation. One who understands the purpose of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, should seriously understand the importance of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and seriously take part in it. One should not endeavor for ugra-karma, or unnecessary work for sense gratification. Nūnaḿ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (Bhāg. 5.5.4). Simply for sense gratification, people make plans for material happiness. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (Bhāg. 7.9.43). They do this because they are all vimūḍhas, rascals. For flickering happiness, people waste their human energy, not understanding the importance of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement but instead accusing the simple devotees of brainwashing. Demons may falsely accuse the preachers of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, but Kṛṣṇa will arrange a fight between the demons in which all their military power will be engaged and both parties of demons will be annihilated. --- On Sun, 1/9/11, mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com> Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Bhaktatraveler]

Hare Krsna Pratyatosa d

I use the Prabhupadabooks.com site as my folio.

Errors are not a thing I look for, but run into them every now and then. I do not write it down when I find one. I'm alone in exile, what good would  it do the greater whole of my life? It is quite evident I have no voice that matters in any devotee circles, so why bother? It is just me and Bk Mark. At this time I can not reproduce these erroneous searches so they must not exist. I'm surly out of my mind, like always. LOL.

At this point I have to now question everything outside of the original books I own, as possibly in error. That includes my original 1st printing of the conversation books or anything else I own published by the archives. But then the original books are all inclusive anyway. I just have to accept that the serpents(sinister movement) have poisoned the dish of milk(vani) to such an extent as to be useless coming from them.

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 12:06:20 PM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Bhaktatraveler]

Excellent, relevant quote. May the demons soon kill themselves off and the devotees inherit the earth for the next 10k yr!

I can dream can't I?

Hare Krsna

RCB

---

From: Jack Eskildsen <deadh...@yahoo.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 12:33:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Pratyatosa]

Some errors in VedaBase conversation transcriptions have been mentioned on this thread. Would it be possible to look up one or two of them in the conversation books to see whether or not the same errors are there?

Ys, Ptd

[Bhaktatraveler]

Personally I haven't a clue as to what Bk Mark and I were looking up that day, so I can't help at this time.

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 2:00:27 PM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

Some errors in VedaBase conversation transcriptions have been mentioned on this thread. Would it be possible to look up one or two of them in the conversation books to see whether or not the same errors are there?

Ys, Ptd

.

[Pratyatosa]

For example, would it be possible to look up one of the following (copy/pasted from <http://causelessmercy.com/a/__ATSprojectNotes.txt>):

18. Concerning "RC_WDC_1976-07-08_S._Damodar--Life_Comes_By_the_--etc.mp3/760708r2.wdc," at <http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=s4&SN=29&TP=2411> the transcription says that "SVARUPA DAMODARA" is speaking, but the devotee doesn't sound anything like Svarupa Damodara. I changed it to "SADAPUTA."

19. Concerning "RC_WDC_1976-07-08_S._Damodar--Life_Comes_By_the_--etc.mp3/760708r2.wdc," at <http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=s4&SN=51&TP=2115>: "Because they use a Sanskrit word" transcribed as "In fact, they use a Sanskrit word."

Ys, Ptd

[Pratyatosa]

From <http://causelessmercy.com/a/__ATSprojectNotes.txt>:

28. Concerning "Arr_LON_1969-09-11_I_Teach_What_You_Have_Forgotten.mp3/690911AR.LON" (<http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=an&SN=52&TP=2736>), "Krsna consciousness" was transcribed as "God consciousness." Weird, isn't it?

29. Concerning "Arr_LON_1969-09-11_I_Teach_What_You_Have_Forgotten.mp3/690911AR.LON" (<http://localhost/MWS/causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=an&SN=108&TP=2736>), "That is the system of sannyasa. A sannyasi cannot meet his wife again. That is renouncement. Renouncement means renouncing connection with woman or renouncing sex life. That is renouncement." was transcribed simply as "That is the system of sannyasa." (The last 4 sentences were omitted.)

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Here it is again, this time with the 2nd link corrected:

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

From <http://causelessmercy.com/a/__ATSprojectNotes.txt>:

28. Concerning "Arr_LON_1969-09-11_I_Teach_What_You_Have_Forgotten.mp3/690911AR.LON" (<http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=an&SN=52&TP=2736>), "Krsna consciousness" was transcribed as "God consciousness." Weird, isn't it?

29. Concerning "Arr_LON_1969-09-11_I_Teach_What_You_Have_Forgotten.mp3/690911AR.LON" (<http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=an&SN=108&TP=2736>), "That is the system of sannyasa. A sannyasi cannot meet his wife again. That is renouncement. Renouncement means renouncing connection with woman or renouncing sex life. That is renouncement." was transcribed simply as "That is the system of sannyasa." (The last 4 sentences were omitted.)

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[rainer hahn]

Right, this doesn't look like oversight, rather like a system of purposeful manipulation.

For example, why should someone wihhold this, it is not on my vedabase so I transcribed it from the lecture tape:

Geneva, June 6, 1974 

Yogesvara: [...] The people move to the cities and as a result of this push there are so many problems in the cities. Do you recommend in this plan to have land, where.. that we shun technology? 

Prabhupada: There is no need of technology. What is the use of technology? But even if you don't want, there will be cripples who are interested in technology. 
So, we do not waste our time, let them do that. We are concerned for Krishna consciousness. We should not waste our time for technology. 

Yogesvara: In other words, are we simply trying to set an example…… 

Prabhupada: We cannot waste our time in any other way. Our only business is, how to advance in Krishna consciousness. That is our business. 

Yogesvara: There was one politician I spoke to in India, in Jaipur. He is in charge of a political party. He said that 80% of the people in India live in the villages. And the program of this party was to increase the technology on the farms. And as a result of this so many people would be forced to leave the farms and not work on the farms and they would have so many problems already in the cities, this would increase the problems in the cities many, many times over. Increase the technology on the farms…? 

Prabhupada: What is that technology? 

Yogesvara: Like tractors. Instead of people having to cut down the wheat they have machines to come along with this. Cut down the wheat. And instead of having bullocks to pull the plow, they have a tractor. To cut down the wheat. Would the people be forced into the cities? 

Prabhupada: Of course, there are machine facilities, but, in India so many men are unemployed that to introduce machine this is not a good proposal. Instead of cutting with a machine, if they cut by hand, they have employment. 
Everyone is employed. Machine means 100 men's work done by one machine. But why there are so many unemployed? Why not engage 100 men instead of one machine? Here also, there are so many unemployed in the Western countries. In one sense, machine creates unemployment. Just like because in your Western countries … everything is on machine, therefore you are creating so many hippies. That is also another kind of unemployment, everyone should be employed. 
Otherwise, it will be devil's workshop. 
Idle brain is devil's workshop. So, when there are so many people without any engagement, why there should be machine? 
Machine is not good. One machine means to make another 100 men unemployed. The policy should be – nobody should be unemployed. Everyone should be busy. 

Yogesvara: On the other hand, they say, machines are freeing us from so many…. 

Prabhupada: Freeing from what, for drinking wine and indulging in nonsense policy. What is the meaning of this freedom? 
If you are made free for cultivating Krishna consciousness that is another thing. Even coming to our Krishna consciousness camp, they are sleeping. 
This camp is not made for eating and sleeping. But for cultivating Krishna. 
So anywhere, here and there, the policy should be, that everyone is employed. Everyone is busy. Then there will be nice civilization. If everyone is busy then he cannot cultivate something rascaldom. 
That is Vedic civilization. It is the duty of the king to see, that everyone is working. Either as a brahmana, ksatriya, or as a sudra. 
Everyone is working. Then there is peace. 
At the present moment we can see that on account of this machine there is unemployment and lazy fellow. 
What do you think – these hippies are lazy, that's all. They don't want to do anything. What do you think? One side laziness and one side unemployment. This is not a very good situation. Everyone should be employed. There is a verse in the Bhagavad-gita (BG 3.8)..… in India we have seen, many villagers come and they request one shopkeeper or any gentleman, please give me some work, I don't want salary. If you like you can give me to eat. Otherwise I don't want that also. 
Who is that gentlemen, if you work at my place, I won't give you to eat? 
Immediately he gets some occupation, simply on the basis of eating only. So he gets shelter. So when he's working and the man sees he's working very nicely, alright you take some salary. So therefore they say that instead of unemployment it is better to work without salary or without any regular employment. This is very good principle. Nobody should be allowed to remain lazy without any work. That is a very dangerous position. Modern civilization on account of the machine there is so much unemployment and so many lazzies also. So this is not good. It is not freedom, it is rather freeway to hell, that's all. 
It is not freedom. Everyone should be engaged in work according to his capacity. 
If you have got better intelligence you may be employed as a brahmana. Do the work of brahmana, study sastras and write books, give knowledge to others, teach others. That is brahmana's business. 
And you don't bother for your subsistence, society will supply. Therefore, brahmana they did not work. They are busy with the study of Vedic literature, teaching others and giving knowledge. And society gives them – food. This is brahmana. And ksatriya means to give protection. There will be danger, there will be attack, the ksatriya will protect. 
And for that purpose the ksatriya used to levy tax. So their business is to levy tax. Similarly the less intelligent class, the mercantile community, they engage themselves in producing food and giving protection to the cows. These things are required. And rest, sudras, they help other three higher classes. This is natural division. And that is very good. That means everyone is employed. The intelligent class is employed, the managerial class, mercantile class is employed, and the rest sudra, they are also employed. So there is no, I mean to say, forming party, political party, and fighting, there was no such thing. The king was the supervisor to see that everyone is engaged and everyone is engaged actually in their respective duties so they have no time to form false political parties and make agitation and fight one another. There is no such chance. [...]

[Pratyatosa]

Even worse than the sometimes seemingly self-motivated transcribing is the foolish? demonic? tape editing. Sometimes it seems like the tape editor is purposely trying to make Srila Prabhupada look bad! For example, from <http://causelessmercy.com/a/__ATSprojectNotes.txt>:

30. Concerning "RC_MAY_1975-03-23_Bhaktivinode_Predicted_Someone.mp3/750323AR.MAY" (<http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=qi&SN=23&TP=2736>):

PRABHUPADA: Who has painted this picture?

ACYUTANANDA: Puskara.

PRABHUPADA: Ohh. Very nice. [splice] Now make sublime management. (laughter) That is required now.

Here the tape was edited in such a seamless way that, if it wasn't for the transcription, you wouldn't even know that it had been edited. The trouble is, it was done in such a way as to make it seem like Srila Prabhupada is jumping from one subject to another in an irrational way. It only makes sense if you hear the missing dialog indicated by "[splice]".

Here's what's missing:

Prabhupada: So Atreya-rsi prabhu, you are feeling all right here?

Jayapataka: You feeling all right here?

Atreya-rsi: Yes.

Jayatirtha: The atmosphere here is sublime, Srila Prabhupada.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Gauranga Sundara Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Concerning your <http://www.gauranga.org/ats.htm> web pages, what's done is done, but in the future, would you be so kind as to stop filtering out the italics tags in your versions of the synchronized text? I don't understand why you are doing this. The italics are important. Why do you think the transcribers went through all of the trouble to insert them in the first place?

Having to redo all of the timings is one thing, but can you imagine how complicated it would be to write a computer program that automatically re-inserts all of the HTML italics tags?

How about a little cooperation here!

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Bhaktatraveler]

Just brakes my heart! and then infuriates me at the same time.

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Eddy Gaasbeek (Ekanatha dasa) <eka...@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 8:41:45 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Gauranga]

Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu

PAMHO. AGTSP.

I am not purposely filtering out the Italics. It just works like this. I would prefer much more having them in as the Sanskrit is easier set apart from the rest of the class and thus is easier readable.

I think I would need some help getting the Italics to work. What to do Prabhu? Please advise.

Your servant

Gauranga

[Pratyatosa]

Sorry Prabhu. I didn't mean to accuse you of doing anything wrong on purpose. It's just that I don't remember ever having to get rid of the italics when I was using that same software. At what point do the italics get removed?

IMHO, you should stop using that primitive, unsupported software that I wrote several years ago, and start using the latest, greatest SRT subtitle creation system in the world, namely <http://causelessmercy.com/a/>! It works in a way that is very similar to what you are using, but it is much more streamlined/efficient.

One nice feature is that it automatically saves what you are working on every few seconds, so you never lose anything, even if the power goes off! :-)

I usually do the subtitle creation work lying flat on my back in bed. Sometimes I even doze off in the middle of it! No big deal. When I regain consciousness, all that I have to do is to press the "2" key, and I'm instantly right back where I left off! :-)

Doing the timings pretty much involves just 2 keys:

1. "Enter" - records the timing and advances to the next subtitle.

2. "1" - subtracts one tenth of a second from the newly recorded timing, instantly "rewinds" the audio, and instantly starts playing it again at that exact point.

Thus the procedure is to wait until you hear the first word of the next subtitle, press "Enter," and then press the "1" key however many times it takes to compensate for your reflexes not being instantaneous. (For me it's usually once, twice or thrice.)

I use a US$100 wireless mouse, the Microsoft Sidewinder X8, for this purpose. Why use a mouse designed to be used with either hand if you are right handed? Why not take advantage of your thumb? Only Microsoft has figured out how to do this properly. This amazing mouse has two strategically placed, programmable thumb buttons on the left side: one above the other. Therefore, I program the top button as the "Enter" key and the bottom button as the "1" key. I also program the wheel button as the "3" key (add one tenth of a second to the timing) just in case I press the "1" button once to many times. Thus, I normally don't have to use the keyboard at all unless I need to pause to edit the text.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Caturbahu Prabhu, "I second that emotion!"

More foolishness. This time a lecture. Srila Prabhupada said in Los Angeles in 1972 or 73, "Distribute my lecture tapes unedited or not at all." (paraphrased) The Archives are very good at the "not at all" part. :-(

From <http://causelessmercy.com/a/__ATSprojectNotes.txt>:

31. Concerning "SB_2-01-01_NY_1969-04-10_The_Krishna-Approaching_Body.mp3/690410SB.NY," besides omitting some of the chanting of the Sanskrit, only two edits were made:

a. At <http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=wQ&SN=86&TP=2663> "But our Vaisnava school, without acceptance of spiritual master, there is no possibility of self-realization." was edited out. Why?

b. At <http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=wQ&SN=93&TP=2663> "about Krsna, and that we shall discuss next day. Thank you very much." was changed to "about Krsna... [splice] ...next day." Was the editor completely insane at the time or what?

... but several minutes of chanting the Sanskrit were included! If the problem was time, then why not leave out a little more of the chanting of the Sanskrit instead of cutting out parts of the lecture near the end?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Bhaktatraveler]

Hare Krsna Pratryatosa d

What has been the process they use to transcribe? I mean, a person listens to a tape(?) and at the same time types the audio on to a computer? One person, one tape?  Is there no over sight before archiving the transcription?

RCB

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Jayadvaita Swami <jas...@gmail.com>; Eddy Gaasbeek (Ekanatha dasa) <eka...@gmail.com>; Paul Tombleson <p...@prabhupada.com>
Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 7:55:15 PM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Caturbahu Prabhu, all that I know is what Madhudvisa Prabhu has told us: "The transcriptions have never been checked for errors." (paraphrased) Isn't it obvious?

It's also obvious that the Archives was run like a fly-by-night business venture: "Milk Srila Prabhupada for all he's worth, so that we can maintain out independent grhastha (grhamedhi?) lives of comfort in the country without having to have some karmi boss telling us what to do, and without having to breath cigarette smoke in some karmi place of business."

Who in their right mind moves to North Carolina, the rust, rot, and mildew capitol of the world, if their goal is to actually preserve and protect something? Obviously their goal is to maximize sense gratification, not to preserve and protect Srila Prabhupada's precious legacy! :-(

Now it seems like it's being run like a bankrupt business that no longer cares about anything, and that has completely lost it's motivation (money) to serve the Vaisnavas. How do we know that they are doing anything that they should be doing as far as the archiving goes? There is no oversight whatsoever that I can see.

Krishna's mercy that they were independent at first, because they were able to publish the letters in opposition to the ISKCON powers-that-be, but now they seem to have outlived their usefulness. They should have turned things over to the 2nd generation long ago. They have no idea how things are done in the 21st century, namely how to publish and to digitally archive using the Internet.

Although they never bothered to double check it, it's also Krishna's mercy that they were able to get most of the transcribing done, because now we can create <http://causelessmercy.com/a/> without having to do very much transcribing ourselves. <http://causelessmercy.com/a/> allows devotees all over the world to easily understand what Srila Prabhupada is saying, and as can be seen from <http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=aa&SL=German>, it can also be done in foreign languages in order to reach an even bigger audience! :-)

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Bhaktatraveler]

Like I always say Prabhu, with no DVD division, we will get low class devotees in high class position and suffer the results endlessly. Or as we have in this case, obviously unqualified devotees holding up progress. No! not just holding up progress but like gremlins they are chopping here and deleting there, irreverently truncating and omitting the vani as it should be, UNEDITED!!

The tech I leave up to you and others I know nothing about that.

karmi boss telling us what to do, and without having to breath cigarette smoke in some karmi place of business."

Some devotees have had to work with meat too, just feed a family because we were unceremonious forgotten about. As DVD was ignored, leadership out of compliance with the vani, we ended up raising our families in the worse conditions possible in karmi association. Generally, the neighborhood environments we lived in alone, were greatly adverse to the Krsna consciousness movement I was promised by the instructions of Guru. Do to no cooperation in this DVD culture we were given by Srila Prabhupada even His achieves is a shamble. Deadwood!

"Prabhupāda: So far Vedic religion is concerned, it is not for the Hindus. That is to be understood. The sanātana-dharma. It is for all living entities, all human beings. It is called sanātana-dharma. That I have already explained. The living entity is sanātana, God is sanātana, and there is sanātana-dharma. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20]. And where Kṛṣṇa is described sanātana in the Eleventh Chapter. Do you remember? He is described as sanātana. Sanātanam. So actually, the Vedic system is called sanātana-dharma. Not Hindu dharma. This is a wrong conception. The sanātana-dharma is meant for all living entities, not the so-called Hindus, Muslims, Christians. For everyone. That is sanātana-dharma. These are later misconceptions, Hinduism and this ism, that ism, that ism. Actually, it is called sanātana-dharma, or varṇāśrama-dharma. That is meant for everyone. But because it was being followed regularly in India and Indians were called by the Muslims on the other side of the River Sind, or Sindu, and they pronounce Sind as Hind. Therefore they called India as Hindustan, means on the other side of Sindu, or Hindu River. Otherwise, it has no Vedic reference. So this Hindu dharma has no Vedic reference. The real Vedic dharma is sanātana-dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. First of all he has to understand this. Now that sanātana-dharma, or Vedic dharma, being distorted, not being obeyed, not being carried properly, it has come to the understanding of Hinduism. That is a freak understanding. That is not real understanding. We have to study sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama-dharma. Then we'll understand what is Vedic religion"

SB.8.2.30

In the fighting between the elephant and the crocodile, the difference was that although the elephant was extremely powerful, he was in a foreign place, in the water. During one thousand years of fighting, he could not get any food, and under the circumstances his bodily strength diminished, and because his bodily strength diminished, his mind also became weak and his senses less powerful. The crocodile, however, being an animal of the water, had no difficulties. He was getting food and was therefore getting mental strength and sensual encouragement. Thus while the elephant became reduced in strength, the crocodile became more and more powerful. Now, from this we may take the lesson that in our fight with māyā we should not be in a position in which our strength, enthusiasm and senses will be unable to fight vigorously. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has actually declared war against the illusory energy, in which all the living entities are rotting in a false understanding of civilization. The soldiers in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power. To keep themselves fit, they must therefore place themselves in a normal condition of life. What constitutes a normal condition will not be the same for everyone, and therefore there are divisions of varṇāśrama—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacarya, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, it is advised that no one take sannyāsa.

Why is the SB rejected by the leaders of IS-A-CON? No guts no glory. Only Iskcon will be glorious.

Hare krsna

Caturbahu das

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Jayadvaita Swami <jas...@gmail.com>; Bir Krishna das Goswami <bkgo...@earthlink.net>; Gauranga Sundara Das <gauranga...@gmail.com>; Visnu Murti <vani...@pamho.net>; Ekanath (das) ACBSP (BA N.Carolina - USA) <ekanat...@pamho.net>; Sean Carolan <scar...@gmail.com>; Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>; Michael Zaniboni <za...@gmx.de>
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 4:45:16 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[rainer hahn]

"Obviously their goal is to maximize sense gratification" -- looks like they are aware of the 4 regs but still identify with false ego. Subtle sense gratification like name, fame, wealth. All ISKCONites are aware of that they have no intelligence to accomplish what Madhu Pandit has achieved. So even when they win and Bangalore is theirs, they were not able to continue to daily provide 1.5 Mio meals, they only could close the whole thing. But still they pay millions to sue the Bangalore devotees. The base motive is false ego, to possess the Bangalore temple. No consideration of future consequence, people all over India outraged, closing of Akshaya-patra, disgrace of Prabhupada's movement, etc etc.
 

--

[july9th]

There is supposed to be a proof-reader but as this thread shows, the
proof reader has not always been attentive or there just has not been
one to check the transcription.
The point here is that the proof-reader has to be interested in what
he's doing (devoted) then he'll do things nicely.
BUT
If he's only doing it for a salary at the end of the month then, the
opposite result is expected.

On Jan 11, 2:11 am, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktatrave...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hare Krsna Pratryatosa d
>
> What has been the process they use to transcribe? I mean, a person listens to a
> tape(?) and at the same time types the audio on to a computer? One person, one
> tape?  Is there no over sight before archiving the transcription?
>
> RCB
>
> ________________________________

> From: Pratyatosa <pratyat...@gmail.com>
> To: istag...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: Jayadvaita Swami <jasw...@gmail.com>; Eddy Gaasbeek (Ekanatha dasa)

[mark mclaughlin]

While I appreciate the audio/visual transcription idea, I witnessed errors in translation the other day. Combine this with the errors in transcription, and we still have somewhat of a status quo. The train continues to roll right past every station where a competent manager/supervisor could board it and begin the oversight/organization of talent in order to insure a proper finished product. The principle transcribers in this scenario have all acted independently while occasionally giving constructive criticism to each other's projects AFTER THE PROJECT WAS MOSTLY COMPLETED.  It would be nice to see the principles consult one another and choose someone outside the group who they consider a competent enough elder with management skills to act as an unbiased overseer from here on in.  Apply the brakes to the train, allow the manager on board, and then let him help with the steering.  A macromanager, not a micromanager. The fact is that by nature, a person who gains one or more technological skills NEEDS to be part of a team with oversight, because by virtue of focusing one's conscious attention on gaining and also IMPLEMENTING a narrow but essential skillset, they cannot simultaneously spend the time necessary to oversee 10 other fully engaged devotees with varying skillsets. A competent managerial type has the intellect to quickly grasp the essence of the various technological skills required to execute a project without being fully trained in those skills. The manager is already trained in detail with the skill of managing such diverse types of endeavors, and thus can come on board at any point in a project, come up to speed, and utilize their management skills to give macro direction to the labor involved. This allows the labor to act freely and independently without heavy micromanagement, due to the expert big picture guidance of the competent manager.

[Bhaktatraveler]

There you go, there in lies the problem. Devotion and dedication!

RCB

---

From: july9th <july9t...@gmail.com>
To: Prabhupadanuga <istag...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 9:42:02 AM

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Bhaktatraveler]

Have I read this right? The Akshaya-patra daily meal program is shut down?!

RCB

---

From: rainer hahn <raine...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 9:29:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Mistakes in 2003 VedaBase

[Pratyatosa]

From <http://causelessmercy.com/a/__ATSprojectNotes.txt>:

34. Concerning "Arr_LA_1972-05-18_Seeing_the_Source_of_This_Love.mp3/720518AR.LA," (<http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=ai&SN=33&TP=2736>):

"In the Vedanta-sutra it is said, "janmady dasya yatah" [?]." was transcribed as "In the Vedanta-sutra it is said, janmady asya yatah [Bhag. 1.1.1]" with no period to end the sentence.

Why is a reference to the Srimad-Bhagavatam given when Srila Prabhupada said that it's from the Vedanta-sutra?

Why "asya" when Srila Prabhupada clearly said "dasya"?

Why "Bhag." when everywhere else "Srimad-Bhagavatam" is abreviated as "SB."?

Why is "janmady asya yatah" in the VedaBase 649 times, but "janmady dasya yatah," which is clearly what Srila Prabhupada said, not in the VedaBase even once?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Talk about bogus transcribing! This one takes the cake:

http://s.esotericteaching.org/Bg_04-24_NM_1976-08-04_Krishna_is_there_--_But_You_--etc.mp3

"Corresponding" transcription: http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/760804BG.NMR.htm

The transcriber suddenly decided to quit transcribing 2/3 of the way through the lecture! "Why not just take the money and run? No one checks up on me anyway!" He/she even had the nerve to insert "(end)" 2/3 of the way through! :-(

I started to transcribe the rest of it myself, but almost immediately I got to the possible reason why the transcriber threw in the towel. At 10:58, Srila Prabhupada speaks 2 Sanskrit words which I have not been able to decipher, let alone find in the VedaBase. The words sound to me like "porasum nisu."

How shall I transcribe it if none of us can solve this mystery? "[unknown Sanskrit]?"

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi>, <http://causelessmercy.com/>, <http://rtvik.com/>, <http://pratyatosa.com/>, <http://feedacow.com/>, <http://llbest.com/>

[Pratyatosa]

Wow! You are amazing, Maharaja! Mystery solved! Thank you very much for your help.

I venture to say that you figured it out without even bothering to listen to the recording!

Your detective work allowed me to complete the transcribing of <http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=dk>. <http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=dk&SN=78> is where the "mysterious" 2 Sanskrit words were quoted. Your supposition is further confirmed by the fact that Srila Prabhupada quoted the rest of the verse a few sentences later:

http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=dk&SN=87

Ys, Ptd

 On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:23 AM, Jayadvaita Swami <Jayadvai...@pamho.net> wrote:

>The words sound to me like
>"porasum nisu."

Perhaps "paurusam nrsu," Bg. 7.8.

       --ys, js

[HARE KRISHNA]

Hare Krishna Prabhu,

AGTSP,PAMHO

Prabhu from which site i can download VEADBASE 2003/other version?plz guide me.

 

Ys

Prema Vilas Krishna Dasa

--

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Prema Vilas Krishna Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

Please try one of the following:

http://p.esotericteaching.org/

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CO278WBY

http://www.torrentdownloads.net/torrent/1651083932/VedaBase%202003.01

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5418321/Bhaktivedanta_VedaBase_2003_Prabhupada_teachings_complete_ISO

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[HARE KRISHNA]

HARE KRISHNA PRABHU,
ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA,
ALL GLORIES TO GURU & GAURANGA,
ALL GLORIES TO RADHAKRISHNACHANDRA

PLEASE ACCEPT MY HUMBLE OBESIENCES 

Hope u r well.Prabhu many many thanks helping me.Also prabhu can able to tell me some site from where i can able to download all ISKCON DEITY throughout the world.

 

 

Kindly bless me & pray for me,so that i can render more service to LORD.

 

Many thanks for taking time to read my email.

Dasa-dasanudasah
Prema Vilas Krishna Dasa

--