Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

If you are in the military, you have to follow the orders of your immediate superior, a member of the "chain of command." If you work for a corporation, you have to follow the orders of your boss, who follows the orders of his boss, etc. all the way up to the board of directors. If you work for the mafia, then you have to follow the orders of your mob boss, who follows the orders of his mob boss, etc, all the way up to the godfather.

But if you work for a criminal organization, you are a criminal. "Just following orders" is no excuse. You are liable to be punished by the state simply for joining.

ISKCON became a criminal organization during the GBC meetings in 1978 wherein an illegal takeover occurred through the agency of the hiding and destroying
of documents, the hiding and destroying of audio recordings, threats, intimidation, banning, beating, ostracizing, excommunication, and even murder!

This means that those who are now members of ISKCON, and especially those who now have leadership positions within ISKCON are automatically criminals. This does not mean that an ISKCON leader should hang on to such a position, and, at the same time, not follow the dictates of his or her immediate superior, the temple president, the GBC representative, and the GBC body. To do so would be hypocritical. The only honest thing to do would be to resign from such a post, leave ISKCON completely, and not give any service or money to such a criminal organization. If everyone in such a position within ISKCON would do this, then the situation would be rectified in short order.

Why be a hypocrite? "Vote with your feet," just as most of us on this forum have already done.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi>, <http://causelessmercy.com/>, <http://rtvik.com/>, <http://pratyatosa.com/>, <http://feedacow.com/>, <http://llbest.com/>

On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Prabhupadanuga News <in...@prabhupadanugas.eu> wrote:

Dear Prabhupadanugas, $gsom_fname_field,

Here's what's new at the http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/ over the past few days. Your comments and feedback are always welcome.

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best wishes,
Prabhupadanuga News
PRABHUPADANUGA NEWS

[tim lee]

To: mukh...@gmail.com Cc: ange...@yahoo.com Dear Prabhu, I was wonder if the reason that the Alachua temple wants Jayadvaita swami's editions of Krishna's books to be sold there is because, Jayadvaita swami has written a document saying that Krishna's successor gurus (i.e. messiahs / people like Jesus) are "engaged in illicit sex with men women and children." Does the temple want only his editions because they support his idea that gurus aka Jesus - like messiahs aka God's pure representatives -- are engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children? Is this the official view of ISKCON of Alachua? Do you mind if we post our question on Gainseville college forums, or other Florida forums? thanks ys pd

[mark mclaughlin]

Leave and go where? The disciples of Srila Prahbupada have yet to come together and create a viable alternative for anyone who might want to leave the matrix. I guess she could do just like the rest of us.  It's not like she isn't surrenderred to maya already.  It is simply an upgrade to being in maya with a little more personal integrity about it.  But an upgrade nonetheless.

[Anuttama devi dasi]

I don't think that we should refer to the remains of Srila
Prabhupada's institution as ISKCON, but rather as pseudo-ISKCON.
ISKCON is a spiritual movement, based on the teachings of the founder-
acarya, Srila Prabhupada. In the present day pseudo-ISKCON, a member
has to agree to accept the self-appointed GBCs interpretation of those
teachings in order to be a member. If a person wants to accept Srila
Prabhupada's instructions without interpretation, such a person is
forced out. If a person accepts the DOM as a valid document and the
July 9th letter, he/she is not welcome within pseudo-ISKCON. So the
organization that is currently called ISKCON is actually just a pseudo-
ISKCON, a materialistic church without any spiritual potency. What
they have done is criminal, beyond the scope of any crime ever
committed. We have no where to send people who are interested in
becoming Krsna conscious and there is no shelter for devotees who
desperately need the association of vaisnavas. And there are no
communities where devotees are striving to live the lifestyle
prescribed by our spiritual master.

Anuttama

I have some pictures from our Christmas and a post "A hurtful
Christmas for the Budds" on our blog: http://billyandanuttama.wordpress.com/

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear All,

But what do we say to the devotees, like Malati d.d( used to be in San Francisco for many years)

and Madanacini d.d, or Skanda Das and other matajis and brahmacharis who may have lived their entire devotional life in a temple? Many of these devotees are in their 60's. Madanacini dd is the same as she always has been, totally wrapped up in Lord Caitanya (and his tear drop) in front of the Jagannatha Cart.

Is it fair, is it right to condemn the devotees who just focus on some service and are maybe even oblivious,

or perhaps, like humble devotees, they are just depending on Krishna to straighten things out.

How many of you are willing to take in some of these devotees? Give them some devotional association,etc.

 

Many never had a job, and dont have a source of income.Some kids grew up in the movement and werent educated nor geared towards living and fending for themselves.

Srila Prabhupada did say devotees should try to work together.

Did Srila Prabhupada ever say, if things go south, because the people I put in charge will fall down, all the devotee should ditch ?

Unless, people have some Free room/food for them and can offer them some devotional service, where  shall they go?

While not allowing Srila Prabupadas original books in Srila Prabhupadas temple is devilish, I think we need to extend some understanding and compassion for the many nice devotees who have been caught up in everything.

Many great devotees can perform devotional service in all sorts of conditions.

ISnt it between the devotee and Srila Prabhupada and Krishna who is a  spiritual 'criminal' or not.

When reading SB. and Nectar of Devotion etc, its impossible to ignore the mercy that devotees are supposed to extend to others.

Believe it or not, there are some devotees , for example original Srila Prabhupada disciples who have spent practically their whole life at New Vrndavan farm community- they also suffered in various ways over the many years, but that is the life they know, they own land, they still have friends, still are devoted to the Deities and such. Is it right to lump them in as endorses of crime etc, like Pratyatosa and others suggest.

How many of you have traveled to a number of present Iskcon Temples? I havent been all over the world , but I have visited a number of ISKCON temples  in India and elsewhere and while, I cant say many nice things about the people in charge, there are PLENTY of really nice , good souls, who Im sure are pleasing Srila Prabhupada by doing service of all sorts.

 

I say cut the nice devotees some slack, who due to circumstance maybe are stuck where they are. Probably many of those same devotees are chanting their rounds each day, have full faith in Srila Prabhupadas process of devotional service and trying to follow as best they can. They probably have copies of Srila Prabhupadas original books as well.

ys

Lakshmi

 

 

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[Pratyatosa]

Dear Mother Lakshmi Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Good points.

Women are always to be considered innocent. The wives of the mobsters are in the same predicament. Do you ever hear about them going to jail because they happen to be married to a mobster?

Even in the case of Mother Mukhya Prabhu, she is in that TP position due to being place there by the men. It's the men within ISKCON who are the criminals, not the women. It's the men who are going to have to suffer the bad reactions for their being members of a criminal organization.

However, their is another consideration: The more that women try to artificially act like men, the less they are considered innocent by the stringent laws of material nature. But how does this apply to devotee women? The law of karma is very complicated, and Srila Prabhupada has said that devotees only get a token punishment. Take the Turley lawsuit, for example. The Archdiocese of Dallas had to pay $120,000,000 for 11 altar boys being sexually molested. ISKCON had to pay only $10,000,000 for hundreds of children being sexually molested. "A token punishment" for sure!

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[tim lee]

Dear prabhus, Laxmi is right, ISKCON women and innocents are not protected. Nothing new, when the bad guys are robbing a bank, they usually grab bank clients like a few old  ladies to be their shield as they leave. Yes, there is no concern for the ladies by the leaders, they are basically used as human shields. Then again, there was no concerrn for the elders and seniors, brahmanas (like Yasodananda and Pradyumna for example), women, children and so much more. Its sad, but they are victimized.   I just posted a letter on my blog of some devotee who says he knows of not one of the embezzlers, molesters, criminals in general ever being prosecuted by complaints from ISKCON leaders, ummm, they watch each other's back. At the same time, New York city passed a good samaritan law because so many people did nothing to counter crimes, so they passed a law: if you know about a crime, you have to report it, or you are criminally implicated yourself. This means, devotees should also speak out when all this is going on, its their duty.   Alachua jail has a larger percent of devotees than the general public in the jail, drugs, crimes, etc. More of them are depressed and not fired up, and so they are getting entangled in crimes.  In sum if people get repressed and then depressed, they are not making progress hardly, its a downward spiral for the repressed and the repressors. We often find that when Krishna attacks a bogus leader, He takes out the whole crew, all the supporters and sympatizers also get cleaned out. I like Pratyatosa's example, there is the Mafia, there is the wife of the MAFIA, well ok but although the wife is more innocent, she is still implicated. ys pd         :

[rainer hahn]

Dear Prabhus,

"Is there are perfect crime?" materialists sometimes jokingly ask this question. The pious karmis figure, no, crime it's not worth, all criminals get caught at one point, all crimes at one point are exposed, end in jail. However there seems to be a sole exception: ISKCON, the "heaven" for those who never get caught.

When people ask why nobody goes/went to police, we get the answer, hippies don't go to police. Period.

Not very reasonable answer, isn't. When making a poll, 99,9% would say, no, that's not the right answer!

The prosecuting attorney of West Virginia was phoning up Janmashtami Das and others: We have  strong suspicion that Drescher is not someone who pulls the strings, he looks like subordinate to us, what do you know, who actually is the responsible party for Sulocana's death?
Janmasthami das: I'm a scared hippie, no such questions, please.

In sum, don't certify such a document, the scared hippie philosophy doesn't look right. Something like if you go into reverse at 80mph.

It's a blemish, defective appearance on the Prabhupadanuga process. The real answer is something else, something even PADA doesn't wish to disclose.

Prabhupada: What they are planning, that also I know. But I don’t wish to disclose it.

So we have no problem with this, there are things which should not be disclosed, we can live with that.

To go public with murderers, poisoners and pedophile homosexuals, please, first lay down on the couch of a psychiatrist and get your scared hippie psychosis fixed. Then come back, then people will listen.

ys

rmd

 

[mark mclaughlin]

Yesterday around 5pm I saw a few devotees standing in the wind and cold, on the highway, across from the entrance to the Alachua temple. One held a sign that said something like "Srila Prabhupada's original books are unauthorized for distribution by the Iskcon GBC, don't give money". I also saw some people offer support from their cars with a word or a wave. I guess they were not frightened hippies.

[tim lee]

Goody. Its about time. ys pd

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Mark,

Thats nice to hear that there are some devotees that are willing to actually "do" something.

Good news, glad to hear it, they are brave and have some determination.

Next they should arm themselves with some orginal books and sell them to the passerbys.

 

In the early days in some places like Germany ,the devotees would get up at 3am- be out by 7:30am  or so

standing in the wind and snow -or whatever distrubuting magazines(there were no books yet)....

then eventually Sri Isopanisad.

ALL DAY.. then come home to the temple and eat all they could afford,( like just kitiri, potatoes and cabbage)

Yet, everyone was blissful and fired up.

Now temple devotees rarely go on harinam, nor do book distribution.Everything is ass backwards.

 

By preaching to others it inspires us, performing austerities to please the Spiritual Master is blissful.

 

In contrast the "swamis" eat large plates of maha prasad and fly around the world from plate of maha prasad to another plate of mahaprasad. How many of the GBC, TP actually engage in real devotional service ALL day long.

Srila Prabhupada worked day AND night translating the books and preaching, teaching, etc.

 

However it takes only one unqualified person to get up on a pedastol/vyasasana, but a group of people to keep them there.

Going through the internet, I didnt realize there are so many self proclaimed acharyas and etc etc/

The internet even calls your identity "your avatar".

ys

Lakshmi

 

 

 

 

 

[mario pineda]

Hare Krishna. Great. This is what is needed. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the originator of the non violent disobedience movement. We should have a big kirtan with signs in front of major ISKCON temples with similar signs.  Easier to do, is to drive by a temple in the middle of the night before mongil arati and through protest or exposure fliers out a window. It could also be done at Sunday feasts. It depends on the message and what audience you want to reach.

Sincerely,

Mahatma dasa

[rainer hahn]

Don't remember that there was a Lakshmi Kary in 1971 Germany? No, there was none.

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Rainer .hahn,( I cant remember your name and since you didnt sign your post I cant address you)

What kind of a devotee are you?

Considering that I was reminding the devotees of times past when devotees were willing to do all sorts of loving devotional service, what is your INTENT?

Were YOU there?  I wasnt there , but knowing the history of the early years, the situation the russian devotees, lived and died in to sprad KC is inspiring.

Im sorry you dont find it inspiring but would rather use the opportunity to make some nasty comment, which you seem to have a knack for.

 

There were a number of devotees in Germany, and I have personally heard the conditions and austerities

that the devotee were willing to preform. Ive heard personally from Iksvaku,Dinasarina, Hansadutta and others.

Ive also personally heard from unlimited deovtees in other countries of,  the sometimes life threatening service they performed. So if you dont like to hear it, then just dont read. There are many many New Vrndavan devotees who went through so much to build the Palace of Gold,etc, why do you want to detrack from that?

 

Ive also read, saw and heard from many senior devotees about the early days in the movement,

when the devotees really poured out their love for Srila Prabhupada, trying to serve him.

 

It was far different , then sitting behind a computer, even now the number of devotees who spend 8 hours a day trying to distribute SP , his books and mission via internet media  is pretty low compared to the early days.

Pratyatosa spends alot of time on this, Madhuvisa prabhu has spent years and years .

Why do you want to detrack from that sort of thing with little comments?

It must be that you dont have enough to do .

ys

Lakshmi

[tim lee]

Pretty simple, the temple leaders most likely get salaries in Alachua, what I hear is, the leaders there also plan to get bonus payments and even retirement pay. The leaders support Jayadvaita because, they get paid to do that. Follow the money. ys pd

[rainer hahn]

http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=16747

[Labangalatika Dasi]

Haribol great news so inspiring if they can distribute books too.
Jai Srila Prabupada ys Labangalatika dasi

On Dec 28, 9:01 am, lakshmi kary <lakshmik...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hare Krishna
> Dear Mark,
> Thats nice to hear that there are some devotees that are willing to actually
> "do" something.
> Good news, glad to hear it, they are brave and have some determination.
> Next they should arm themselves with some orginal books and sell them to the
> passerbys.
>
> In the early days in some places like Germany ,the devotees would get up at
> 3am- be out by 7:30am  or so
> standing in the wind and snow -or whatever distrubuting magazines(there were
> no books yet)....
> then eventually Sri Isopanisad.

> *ALL DAY*.. then come home to the temple and eat all they could afford,(

> like just kitiri, potatoes and cabbage)
> Yet, everyone was blissful and fired up.
> Now temple devotees rarely go on harinam, nor do book
> distribution.Everything is ass backwards.
>
> By preaching to others it inspires us, performing austerities to please the
> Spiritual Master is blissful.
>
> In contrast the "swamis" eat large plates of maha prasad and fly around the
> world from plate of maha prasad to another plate of mahaprasad. How many of
> the GBC, TP actually engage in real devotional service ALL day long.
> Srila Prabhupada worked day AND night translating the books and preaching,
> teaching, etc.
>
> However it takes only one unqualified person to get up on a
> pedastol/vyasasana, but a group of people to keep them there.
> Going through the internet, I didnt realize there are so many self
> proclaimed acharyas and etc etc/
> The internet even calls your identity "your avatar".
> ys
> Lakshmi
>

> On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:17 PM, mark mclaughlin <markmac...@yahoo.com>wrote:>   Yesterday around 5pm I saw a few devotees standing in the wind and cold,

> > on the highway, across from the entrance to the Alachua temple.
>
> > One held a sign that said something like "Srila Prabhupada's original books
> > are unauthorized for distribution by the Iskcon GBC, don't give money".
>
> > I also saw some people offer support from their cars with a word or a wave.
>
> > I guess they were not frightened hippies.
>
> > --
> > You have received this email because you are a member of the Google
> > Prabhupadanuga Group. To post to our group for all the world to see, send an
> > email to <istag...@googlegroups.com>. Getting too many emails? Please go
> > to <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/subscribe> and change your

> > email settings, or request Pratyatosa Dasa (pratyat...@gmail.com) to

> > change your settings for you. To cancel your membership, send an email to <

> > istagosthi+...@googlegroups.com<istagosthi%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.

[rainer hahn]

Dear Lakshmi Kary, "what kind of devotee are you?" -  When Hansadutta became our GBC, at that time we were all 15, 16, 17, so Hansadutta was also like our elderly father. Since he came all the way from Berkeley to Europe we figured that he must carry Prabhupada's actual mood. I remember one time he wanted for a new temple a bell, so he told us to steal a 300 lb heavy bell from a grave yard chapel.

But we never thought that this is wrong, we thought Hansadutta is realy cool, a Prabhupada man. Then of course there was this raid and huge media campaign. But this was exactly what Prabhupada said, you go out and chant and distribute my books and when they put you in prison you chant in prison.

Then Harikesa came and introduced everything according to law. Trade license for book distributors. His cliche became something like Mr. Clean. With the benefit of hindsight, actually Hansadutta was right, we should not have surrendered to become freelance business men with trade license. Harikes turned the bookdistributors into self-employed personnel who were legally not even members of ISKCON.

With trade license you are supposed to pay your dues and don't belong to the company you are working for. So this was one of the "clever" moves of Harikes, to institute to easily kick out long-serving devotees. No entitlement to a pension for those who worked their whole life for ISKCON. No rights whatsoever.

This was Harikes, always making plans. So Hansadutta shouldnt feel bad about this so called reversal, he did the right thing, to follow Prabhupada and not surrender to karmi governments. Once you surrender to karmi law they increase pressure. More and more to subjugate.

Thats what the new generation of Vaishnavas are having now, being treated like bugs. All over they took Germany as example how to treat the Vaishnavas like taxpayer and subordinate. Hansadutta was not like that, to crawl on all fours. Hansadutta knew how to deal with the karmis. He shouldnt have give in when they threw us in jail.

Hope you are in happy mood and don't overestimate internet forums.

ys
Rammohan das     

[tim lee]

Yes, this tendency for attraction to criminal action is what has basically destroyed the image of ISKCON. The Berkeley farm was raided because Hansadutta's people stole Bhakta's dasa's credit cards and the devotees used the cards to buy all kinds of things. The police had no trouble finding who stole them, as soon as they went into the front door Himavati (Hansadutta'as ex) was wearing a sweater that had been purchased with the stolen cards. Then they raided the Berkeley farm and found all kinds of stolen goods there, including apparently -- a stolen building! Of course Kirtanananda folks had already been busted in 1979 for using minors as drug mules, they were printing counterfeit NFL football stickers, devotees were getting banned and beaten there and some were killed aka "disappeared," and in 1980 the Syracuse court said ISKCON was a massive fraud operation, and after all this was going on, all the Berkeley devotees were sent to New Vrndavana -- the epicenter of almost all of these criminal behaviors. Clearly there is attraction to criminal actions. A devotee told me a story, Srila Prabhupada said "after I am gone do not make ISKCON into chaos,"  a devotee asked what that meant, and another devotee answered "he means, do not make it full of demons." Srila Prabhupada chuckled. OK, do not make ISKCON into a criminal enterprise. Harikesha was a criminal because he kicked out hundreds of ddevotees who had given millions to ISKCON, he was defrauding those people as the rightful co-heirs to the property. When I went to Santa Cruz in 1982 it was the same thing, almost all the Prabhupada devotees had been kicked out of Berkeley, they gave millions and now they were homeless. Some of them were living in their cars, just so that a few people could sit in a big seat in Prabhupada's temples. So this was a criminal conspiracy against the devotees. Criminal, yes that is the correct word. And that is why the newspapers began to recount so many stories of crimes, these people were basically criminals posing as if they were Jesus reincarnations. This is not just material crime, it is a spiritual crime, the spiritual lives of all these devotees was disrupted, and many times, ruined, just so a few people could sit in a big seat for a few years and think they were the next Jesus incarnated. ys pd

[Bhaktatraveler]

Sorry mother. The road the temple is on is in the country and 55 miles per hour. No books can be distributed under these conditions to anyone.

Hare Krsna

Caturbahu das

---

From: Labangalatika Dasi <rslma...@gmail.com>
To: Prabhupadanuga <istag...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, December 29, 2010 1:01:15 AM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT

[Bhaktatraveler]

Thank you Rammohan das,

I like to hear from those that lived history. Not second hand hear say. 

RCB

---

From: rainer hahn <raine...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, December 29, 2010 9:32:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear RCB,

Please address that to Puranjana,

98.9% of what he writes it heresay and second hand, third hand or imagination, or worse.

ys

Lakshmi

 

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Rammohan,

Thank-you for sharing your experiences in Germany.

I always like to hear the various pastimes of Srila Prabhupada and the devotees.

best wishes

Lakshmi

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Puranjana,

Ah too bad we aren't all perfect. I guess we were just the people that needed Srila Prabhupada the most!!!

Srila Prabhupada  is a pure devotee and yet he engaged all these people.... so are you saying SP was a bad judge of character? But you are??

 

also, where did Srila Prabhupada endorse-  or where where where does it say  in any of his books that maintaining an ISKCON enquirer and using ones waking hours to rag on practically everyone you come across is a form of devotional service?

Please find some references where Srila Prabhupada endorsed you or gave you ANY service whatsoever that has to do with finding fault as a profession.

 

Now, I never see you write anything about how you destroyed your wife and kids lives, are you EVER going to own up to any thing you did and do do????

Lakshmi

 

 

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 7:07 AM, tim lee <ange...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes, this tendency for attraction to criminal action is what has basically destroyed the image of ISKCON. The Berkeley farm was raided because Hansadutta's people stole Bhakta's dasa's credit cards and the devotees used the cards to buy all kinds of things. The police had no trouble finding who stole them, as soon as they went into the front door Himavati (Hansadutta'as ex) was wearing a sweater that had been purchased with the stolen cards. Then they raided the Berkeley farm and found all kinds of stolen goods there, including apparently -- a stolen building! Of course Kirtanananda folks had already been busted in 1979 for using minors as drug mules, they were printing counterfeit NFL football stickers, devotees were getting banned and beaten there and some were killed aka "disappeared," and in 1980 the Syracuse court said ISKCON was a massive fraud operation, and after all this was going on, all the Berkeley devotees were sent to New Vrndavana -- the epicenter of almost all of these criminal behaviors. Clearly there is attraction to criminal actions. A devotee told me a story, Srila Prabhupada said "after I am gone do not make ISKCON into chaos,"  a devotee asked what that meant, and another devotee answered "he means, do not make it full of demons." Srila Prabhupada chuckled. OK, do not make ISKCON into a criminal enterprise. Harikesha was a criminal because he kicked out hundreds of ddevotees who had given millions to ISKCON, he was defrauding those people as the rightful co-heirs to the property. When I went to Santa Cruz in 1982 it was the same thing, almost all the Prabhupada devotees had been kicked out of Berkeley, they gave millions and now they were homeless. Some of them were living in their cars, just so that a few people could sit in a big seat in Prabhupada's temples. So this was a criminal conspiracy against the devotees. Criminal, yes that is the correct word. And that is why the newspapers began to recount so many stories of crimes, these people were basically criminals posing as if they were Jesus reincarnations. This is not just material crime, it is a spiritual crime, the spiritual lives of all these devotees was disrupted, and many times, ruined, just so a few people could sit in a big seat for a few years and think they were the next Jesus incarnated. ys pd

[tim lee]

Dear Laksmi, 

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010, 7:18 PM

Hare Krishna
Dear Puranjana, Ah too bad we aren't all perfect. I guess we were just the people that needed Srila Prabhupada the most!!! Srila Prabhupada  is a pure devotee and yet he engaged all these people.... so are you saying SP was a bad judge of character? But you are??

[PD: Srila Prabhupada said in January of 1977, they are not fit for sannyasa, I'd say he was right on. When they said they are fit to be God's successors and acharyas, they were deluded. The only reason they were able to get away with saying that is, they basnned, beat and killed people who protested. So we have to explain all this, otherwise it looks like Srila Prabhupada made a mistake and he appinted fools as God's messiahs, we have to clarify that to clear his name.]

Also, where did Srila Prabhupada endorse-  or where where where does it say  in any of his books that maintaining an ISKCON enquirer and using ones waking hours to rag on practically everyone you come across is a form of devotional service? Please find some references where Srila Prabhupada endorsed you or gave you ANY service whatsoever that has to do with finding fault as a profession.
 
[PD: Gurus do no thave fualts? Anyone who says gurus have faults is commiting offense, gurusuh narah matih, narakah sah, but as soon as I say deviants, molesters and crooks are not gurus, I am being harassed? So I have to open this up further, because people are resisting.]

Now, I never see you write anything about how you destroyed your wife and kids lives, are you EVER going to own up to any thing you did and do do???? Lakshmi

[PD: My wife and kids worship Srila Prabhupada and especially my wife and daughter listen to his tapes all the time, whereas most of the other ISKCON kids who were starved, beat, molested and forced to worship pedophiles have rejected Krishna, a good number of them hate Krishna. Some of my daughters ex-kuli friends eat meat and do not ever, ever, ever want to hear about Krishna ever again, this is your idea of better path? That is because they were mistreated by the guru regime that you supported, not me!

This is your idea of a better job? Ask my wife if her life was destroyed, she says to me she is proud that I fought the molester messiahs program, exposed the molesting, ecposed the poison issue, exposed the bogus appointment and so on, she says I did a good job.

My children say the same thing, you have never asked them what they think. You are putting words in their mouth they never said, you are also forgetting that your bogus guru's team is what ruined the lives of thousands of devotees, totally destroyed them, they are even commiting suicide and dying early age, because your bogus guru program is what ruined them, not mine. After 1979 when my dear friend mother Tribhuvanesvari was kicked out of Berkeley, she told me she lost her will to live, so she got terminal cancer and died, I went to see her in hospital. She told me -- she lost her will to live -- all because one idiot wanted to sit in a big seat and kick her out and kick her in the teeth, and so she died, she is merely one of ten thousands examples of what your bogus guru team did. I did none of this, I simply report it. ys pd]
 

[Bhaktatraveler]

Hare Krsna Lakshmi,

What you say is true. The best history will come from those that lived it. Though everyone will have a personal slant to the same experience, by comparison and multiple entries, we can get a reasonable picture.

Hare Krsna

RCB

---

From: lakshmi kary <laksh...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:06:57 PM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT

[tim lee]

A devotee named Srimad Bahgavatam (and of course many others) say that my version of the story, that almost all the Berkeley devotees were sent to New Vrndavana, at the time that New Vrndavana was wearing brown monk's robes and Kirtanananda was wearing a crown etc, is correct. It seems Laksmi likes to insult all these nice and humble devotees and call them liars, rather than admit she goofed when she supported going to New Vrndavana. In addition, Srimad Bahgavatam confirmed Sulochana's account that Kirtanananda had "little boys in his cottage all day long and the adults were ordered to stay away from his cottage." Sorry, these stories are always being confirmed, whereas Laksmi's versions are never being confirmed by anyone. So far, that makes 100% of Laksmi's version  not confirmed and not correct. So I am only 99 percent wrong, whereas she is 100 percent wrong. Srimad Bhagavatam prabhu is 100 percent correct, he went to New Vrndavana under the orders of Hansadutta and he knows exactly what was happening there, i.e. Kirtanananda was always covered with the hands of little boys when he sat in his seat, he had german shephed dogs with him at all times, etc. all confimed. ys pd

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Puranjana Prabhu, all of these things were Krishna's arrangement to make it obvious to almost everyone that the original 11 were not pure devotees like they would have us believe.

Later on, Hansadutta Prabhu rectified himself:

1. He published a pro-ritvik booklet, On My Behalf, which was a major factor in helping me to see the light back in 1997, one year after I gave up householder life.

2. He was always a big supporter of publishing Srila Prabhupada's original books, and he probably fought harder than anyone to keep them in print.

3. I talked with him on the phone when the Turley child abuse lawsuit was getting underway, and he was very supportive.

IMHO, our policy should be to forgive, but not to forget, lest history repeat itself.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[tim lee]

Right, agreed, credit has to be given where credit is due and Hansadutta has helped us in recent times, at the same time, we cannot re-write the history of what occured. That is what I am doing, making a historical record of the events that transpired, this is not a personal attack on anyone, its just the history "As It Is." As Madhvacarya says, anyone who understands history (itihasa) ... he is eligible for liberation. I am only mentioning the Berkeley situation because people are trying to tell us that what happened there, did not happen, well it did! I also have to explain to people even today why there has only been 10 devotees in the temple for the past 10 years, because all the devotees were packed off to New Vrndavana, we have to tell people or they will be bewildered as to how this all occured. ys pd  --- On Fri, 12/31/10, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Puranjana,

You are funny. Let me just tell you, if someone is going to take the responsibility for re-writing history then they should get their facts straight. I wouldn't base writing history on one or two persons second hand recollection.

And as far as a personal attack, how come whenever I try and get you to answer something you Do make a personal attack on me or Hansadutta?

back to your reference from your "source of information" SB das.

Somewhere I have some pictures of a very happy Srimad Bhagavatam das and others out on Harinam sankirtan, did he also tell you that they had to sell paintings because when Hansadutta came to Berkeley there were huge debts and overhead?

Did he tell you that at one point Hansadutta wanted the sankirtan party to try distributing books,and that some devotees came from Singapore to show them how to sell whole sets of books? Did he tell you that whole sets of original books were being printed? That the 1 volume CC and SB were printed?

 

Did you ask SB das why he went to New Vrndavan? Did he say he was a mindless man who just did what anyone told him?

Or that, even after he was aware and his guru said he was fallen SB das still wanted to follow some suggestions of what to do with his life?

Keep in mind this (the leaving of the sankirtan men in the vans  to new Vrndavan) was before the news broke about Bhaktipada,  before the murder of Solocana, before any of that.! So do everyone a favor and don't make it sound like Hansadutta deliberately made people go somewhere where there was a notorious pedophile, and murderer  in charge. All of that stuff about Bhaktipada came out years later.

 

And did it ever occur to you that many of the devotees didnt WANT to stay in Berkeley with the new GBC and ISKCON authorities that took over after Hansadutta left?

 

 

Hansadutta certainly fell down,he made plenty of mistakes, but at least he fell down while printing books at least!

And there were devotees that held him tightly to his pedestal or who genuinely cared about him as a person wanted to hold on tight. While Hansadutta was trying to admit and come down off his seat, there were devotees followers who were hoping against hope he could pull himself up and continue on like nothing happened and were trying to keep things secret from the other devotees. So you see Puranjana you are painting a very one sided version, and you are mixing up facts and dates.

I was there and I remember things, but you dont seem interested in my version. Of course you cant keep things straight and even deliberately try and make it out that I said no devotees went to NV or whatever, which I never did.

 

What were you doing at that time? Unable to do anything except stand around with your mouth open. I don't remember you lifting a finger at the temple. I mean, please , if I am remembering incorrectly, what was your service at the temple?

When I was there at the time , I don't remember seeing you at the morning program, mopping floors , going on harinam, going out to distribute books, or doing anything,except standing around looking for gossip.Too bad you weren't aware of what your wife was doing and what was happening to your kids. But you will never fess up to that its easier to blame someone else.

 

Prediction- instead of answering, or admiting any fault of your own, you will come back with some more of the Puranjana distorted enquirer news version.

 

1) Please give me a list of ALL the devotees who were "kicked out" of the Berkeley temple, what year ,and why.You wont be able to do that, and I know you wont answer that, after writing that dramatic statement to create a smokescreen, you then move on to other things.

I want you to be truthful , Puranjana, don't distort.

 

PJ said "  I also have to explain to people even today why there has only been 10 devotees in the temple for the past 10 years, because all the devotees were packed off to New Vrndavana, we have to tell people or they will be bewildered as to how this all occured. ys pd "

LK -Are you trying to tell me that the reason there hasnt been many devotees at the Berkeley Temple for the past 25years is because Hansadutta suggested that SOME of the devotees- who didnt want to stay in Berkeley and (WANTED to still follow him )  go to West Virginia (where Bhaktipada was willing to have them go there)..??

Keep in mind, H had admited in public, he had fallen prior to that, he repeatedly said he didnt want to manage, he repeatedly said he wanted to get himself together. And Iskcon had kicked H out of Iskcon or whatever you want to call it.

 

So here we are 25years later, and very few devotees, very few devotees anywhere.

Why is it that practically no one has been able to make their own temples?

These gurus left and in many places things came to a stand still. Harikesa ( as far as I remember hearing) was having his followers distribute lots of books. The tyrant left and instead of everyone being happy the whole place fell apart, as well.

 

Now whats happening? Those same people cant continue to distribute books, to preach to do service?

Its the nature of humans to want someone to worship and its a very easy trap for someone to want to be worshipped and someone to be the worshipper.

Thats why SO many Srila Prabhupada disciples have got re-initiated, by so many other living guru types.

They seem to NEED someone, to personally encourage them. How long are you going to stand around and blame what happened long ago on some fallen gurus? Why arent people doing something else? I know why..

no one can get along.Everyone is busy finding fault and arguing over things.Its Kali -Yuga, and unless the devotees stay fixed up they cant stand in the face of maya.

 

2) Now are you trying to tell me that these grown men, and a few women that went to New Vrndavan werent able to think for themselves and were just following orders, or what?

I went, there were some very wonderful things about the New Vrndavan community and the devotees there, but , I didnt like it,

didnt like Bhaktipada and I left, others could have to.!

Anyway, dont have time to argue with you, have to take care of the animals.

But Ill be back,

so while Im gone get out your history book and start getting your dates and facts straight so when you write something you dont have to guess and use a very one sided view.

lakshmi

 

 

 

 

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Pratyatosa,

Yes, I think that is correct, and as more time goes on, it will become more and more apparent how Srila Prabhupada was

a REAL acharya  and all those who came into his association,then, now and forever,

personally, through his books, lectures,pictures,videos, or anything are blessed beyond mundane comprehension.

The more time goes on it only shows the real Glory of a pure devotee like Srila Prabhupada ,and anyone who dedicates their life to being engaged in the service of Srila Prabhupada by distributing his books and the Holy Name are the most fortunate persons in all of the universe.

ys

Lakshmi

 

 

[rainer hahn]

Dear Prabhus!
Hansadutta just wrote me a nice letter. Prabhupada told him not to get caught when doing risky things. In sum we all made mistakes but we want to sincerely follow Prabhupada, have learned from the past. As Pratyatosha prabhu is saying below, as I understand it, there should be kind of effort to have the Prabhupadanugas united.

When we don't consciously work for this, things remain for ever divided. Just an example, Madhu Pandit prabhu, nobody is inviting him to go global. So this is real mismanagement. Prabhupada was 70 and always travelling to expand.

If all the Prabhupadanuga camps prefer to remain on their own and not to cooperate with others, then this should be also documented.

Something like, IRM, PADA, ISKCON Bangalore, Hansadutta prabhu, Kapindra Swami, Madhudvisa prabhu, Damaghosa prabhu, B.Radha-Govinda dd, KBI, Naara Narayana prabhu, Caturbahu prabhu, www.prabhupadanugas.eu, www.prabhupadavision.com, http://www.facebook.com/#!/kshamabuddhi.dasa etc etc. the whole long list of groups and individuals, decided to give up the endeavour to cooperate in their service to Prabhupada.

Once you think about it written in the history books, does this look like what Prabhupada wanted?

So Tel Aviv is close to New Year, Happy New Year prabhus!

ys
rammohan das

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Puranjana,

Part of the problem is that many things happened in a short period of time.

Hansadutta tried to step down 83 , he went for awhile to san francisco,

then he and some devotees went to New Vrndavan-

but the devotees that stayed in Berkeley were having a hard time and repeatedly asked him to come back.

He came back for approx one year ? spring 84- and left again for good from Mt. kailasa with me

in approx. sept. 85 to New Vrndavan. He wasnt there(in NV) most of the time we lived there as he went on traveling

Harinam with some devotees to Florida etc.

Meanwhile, Things got crazier and crazier at New Vrndavan with Bhaktipada giving christian names and having them wear robes and crazy stuff like saying his dog was a pure devotee..it was very apparent at that point that there was some very serious issues, and I heard first hand at that time some of the intenst stuff.

We got out of there in winter of 86,so we were in NV for about 10months,  and started traveling in a bus ,

settled in sonoma county in fall of 87.

ys

Lakshmi

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Rammohan,

RIGHT ON!

UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

ys,

Lakshmi

[Ken McLEOD]

Dear Pratyatosa Dasa PAMHO AGTSP
 
If we are going to forgive then we might also wish to forget if our forgiveness is going to have any real effect.
Forgiveness with conditions attached is not real spiritual forgiveness!
Hansadutta is the only one of the original 11(as far as i know) who has apologized.I have heard recently, that if you want to forgive someone, then you must run it past the editors of the sampradaya sun first, but i am not sure if this is true :) 
 

 

---

From: praty...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 11:39:42 -0500

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

CC: ange...@yahoo.com

[tim lee]

From: lakshmi kary <laksh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 1:11 PM

Hare Krishna
Dear Puranjana,
Part of the problem is that many things happened in a short period of time. Hansadutta tried to step down 83, he went for awhile to san francisco, then he and some devotees went to New Vrndavan - but the devotees that stayed in Berkeley were having a hard time and repeatedly asked him to come back.

[PD: OK well some devotees wanted him to come back, and some, like Atreya rsi and some of the San Francisco and even Berkely temple devotees wanted to go forward with our idea of worship of Srila Prabhupada and not of any of the 11. Atreya Rsi pretty much thought I had the best idea, lets worship Prabhupada, he was going to make Berkeley basically a Prabhupadanuga temple, but then Hansaudutta tried to stop my plan and instead legally put Kirtanananda's people on the Berkeley temple board, so we would have not only a revival of the 11, we would have one of the worst of them, K swami, as our new acharya. Kirtananda is still accepting disciples and acting as a guru now, so we would be worhsipping him here in Berkeley as of today if I had not got Atreya to stop these plans. I was the one who begged Atreya to come and help me, and thank God he did, or we would have K swami photos on Berkeley altars right now.

Therefore my plan to make this a full Prabhupada temple was thwarted by these legal tricks. Atreya had to compromise to get any deal done, at least we got Svarupa Damodar and not K swami. The police were already tapping the phones at New Vrndavana and that is how they came to find out that two of Hansadutta people and one NV person were being sent to Berkeley "to get me" and the police surveilled and followed me, and thus saved me when I was being chased down the street right near the temple by these goondas. I am not sure if they were going to either kill me or just put me in hospital for a few years with multiple broken bones, they were going to get me that is for sure. So my plan to make Prabhupada the guru was being thwarted, thats all, and I almost could have been beaten or killed for even suggesting such a thing.]

He came back for approx one year ? spring 84- and left again for good from Mt. kailasa with me in approx. sept. 85 to New Vrndavan. He wasnt there(in NV) most of the time we lived there as he went on traveling

Harinam with some devotees to Florida etc. Meanwhile, Things got crazier and crazier at New Vrndavan with Bhaktipada giving christian names and having them wear robes and crazy stuff like saying his dog was a pure devotee..it was very apparent at that point that there was some very serious issues, and I heard first hand at that time some of the intenst stuff. We got out of there in winter of 86, so we were in NV for about 10months,  and started traveling in a bus, settled in sonoma county in fall of 87.

[PD: Right, so what happened was that the FBI found a note with my truck license number on it in Tirtha's pocket, i.e. they were going to get me, so the FBI said I was next on the hit list, they sent officer Joe Sanchez to tell me that, so they too were very alarmed at the idea of bringing in Kirtanananda just after Sulochana was killed, they said to me, these people are going to kill you, they offered to move me out of the county and put me in witness protection and change my name etc., that is how much they feared these people. Atreya was terrified of this situation and he fled the scene. The point is, we should have supported Atreya and my idea of making this a Prabhupada center, then this temple would have been NOW a thriving Prabhupada center, instead of a lame duck with only 10 people for the past 10 years and Dizzie Gillespie-pada like Satsvarupa having been put on the temple board.

I do not think you realize the repurcussions of all these things. In any case, I can easily forgive but I cannot ever forget because we cannot allow this bogus guru program to ever occur in the future. I do think you hold a grudge Laxmi prabhu, saying I ruined the lives of my family etc., when we all know my kids are NOT eating hamburgers and taking hard drugs, saying Krishna consciousness is for demons, like a number of their ex-kuli colleagues, indeed some of my sons ex-kuli age friends are now openly blaspheming Krishna and eating hamburgers, now you are telling me, these other kids did better than mine?

Again, you under-estimate the damage done by this bogus guru program. My kids are a million times better off than thousands of their peers, they have faith in Krishna and Srila Prabhupada is their guru, eternally, they never worshipped these hokey imitations. I saved them from that at least. As for my service at Berkeley, apparently, it was to keep the place from going from the frying pan into the fire. ys pd]

[Bhaktatraveler]

Please query 'cooperate' and read the first page results on Prabhupadabooks.com, then give your understanding HOW this is supposed to transpire. Where is the common ground for these highly diverse devotees to communicate/cooperate under? What do you find by the search results??

Hare Krsna

RCBhakti

---

From: rainer hahn <raine...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 2:23:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT

Dear Prabhus!
Hansadutta just wrote me a nice letter. Prabhupada told him not to get caught when doing risky things. In sum we all made mistakes but we want to sincerely follow Prabhupada, have learned from the past. As Pratyatosha prabhu is saying below, as I understand it, there should be kind of effort to have the Prabhupadanugas united.

When we don't consciously work for this, things remain for ever divided. Just an example, Madhu Pandit prabhu, nobody is inviting him to go global. So this is real mismanagement. Prabhupada was 70 and always travelling to expand.

If all the Prabhupadanuga camps prefer to remain on their own and not to cooperate with others, then this should be also documented.

Something like, IRM, PADA, ISKCON Bangalore, Hansadutta prabhu, Kapindra Swami, Madhudvisa prabhu, Damaghosa prabhu, B.Radha-Govinda dd, KBI, Naara Narayana prabhu, Caturbahu prabhu, www.prabhupadanugas.eu, www.prabhupadavision.com, http://www.facebook.com/#%21/kshamabuddhi.dasa etc etc. the whole long list of groups and individuals, decided to give up the endeavour to cooperate in their service to Prabhupada.

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Puranjana,

Wait a minute, in your typical style you dont give answers to your statements and then do the-

throw more stuff(garbage) out to take the focus off what was being discussed.The letter I posted below is here.

You made earlier dramatic statements in previous posts, now back it up with some facts..

please answer my questions.see my original post below, in fact I think I will go through all the "STATEMENTs"

you freely dish out without care, if they are true or accurate and ask you to prove it.

Personally I dont think anyone who has the patience to wade through your posts hasnt seen by now how you are all over the place, and cant keep on point.Thats because most of what you say is based on gossip, heresay, etc.

 

(In addition, in regards to you new rant, please provide the data and year you were supposedly threatened and offered witness protection, because I would like to look it up , personally !)

Now I havent talked to Hansadutta about this stuff lately, but I would like to know how-

 Hansadutta could " "legally" put Kirtananadas people on the board". He had been expelled so to speak,

and wasnt even there, but somehow he was responsible.

Is that like Hansadutta is responsible after 25years of not being there, no one can make devotees in Berkeley, and Srila Prabhupada is on the Vyasasana there, like in your previous commentary???

According to your version, Hansadutta seems to be a person who can be in several places at once,

is very powerful and scary!

I really, really dont think that (if you took 35 devotees who were living and supporting and part of the ISKCON temple after Hansadutta left and didn't come back) and asked them all,

"Can you all say that Puranjana, a member in good standing, who was respected and loved by others, single handedly tried to save the Berkeley Temple, from ISKCON and others, and he tried in vain but failed"???

And that  ISKCON had his back the whole time and supported him in all of his battles.

 

Why don't you tell people why Atreya was there to begin with? These big temples and properties aren't whimsically transferred into different peoples names.Do even know what the over head expenses were at that Temple??? What was your plan for coming up with all that money?If you cant answer this then no point in glorifying yourself as a candidate for managing or even helping manage a temple.Do you even have an iota

of what the property taxes and insurance is, how about the electricity bill?????????

 

I really, really doubt you could get more than 1-2 people from that time, who would sign their name stating

a) that they respected you,such that they would follow or listen to you

b) that you were a devotee in good standing

c) that you were  capable and knowledgeable enough to run a temple

Puranjana, I seriously doubt you could then nor now run any type of temple.Period.So it is weird when you go on and on and make yourself out as some sort of pseudo hero, angel, martyr or whatever.

You are good at what you do, yu love gossip, you love to hear bad and negative news and you thrive on it.

Only problem is you cant be trusted because you are constantly glorifying yourself, and embellishing all the facts with your delusions and illusions.

First how is it that you were simultaneously at the Berkeley temple then, when you said in an earlier mail you were in Santa Cruz ?

PS. Yes I do have a grudge, because I don't like seeing you write nasty, confusing and derogatory things

about me or my family. And, even when confronted with errors in your "reporting" you have no remorse, no I'm sorry , no , Ill correct that,etc.

Ya, so after 26 years or so of watching you do your thing, I'm fed up with you.

 

ys

Lakshmi

Hare Krishna
Dear Puranjana,
You are funny. Let me just tell you, if someone is going to take the responsibility for re-writing history then they should get their facts straight. I wouldn't base writing history on one or two persons second hand recollection.
And as far as a personal attack, how come whenever I try and get you to answer something you Do make a personal attack on me or Hansadutta?
back to your reference from your "source of information" SB das.
Somewhere I have some pictures of a very happy Srimad Bhagavatam das and others out on Harinam sankirtan, did he also tell you that they had to sell paintings because when Hansadutta came to Berkeley there were huge debts and overhead?
Did he tell you that at one point Hansadutta wanted the sankirtan party to try distributing books,and that some devotees came from Singapore to show them how to sell whole sets of books? Did he tell you that whole sets of original books were being printed? That the 1 volume CC and SB were printed?
 
Did you ask SB das why he went to New Vrndavan? Did he say he was a mindless man who just did what anyone told him?
Or that, even after he was aware and his guru said he was fallen SB das still wanted to follow some suggestions of what to do with his life?
Keep in mind this (the leaving of the sankirtan men in the vans  to new Vrndavan) was before the news broke about Bhaktipada,  before the murder of Solocana, before any of that.! So do everyone a favor and don't make it sound like Hansadutta deliberately made people go somewhere where there was a notorious pedophile, and murderer  in charge. All of that stuff about Bhaktipada came out years later.
 
And did it ever occur to you that many of the devotees didnt WANT to stay in Berkeley with the new GBC and ISKCON authorities that took over after Hansadutta left?
 
 
Hansadutta certainly fell down,he made plenty of mistakes, but at least he fell down while printing books at least!
And there were devotees that held him tightly to his pedestal or who genuinely cared about him as a person wanted to hold on tight. While Hansadutta was trying to admit and come down off his seat, there were devotees followers who were hoping against hope he could pull himself up and continue on like nothing happened and were trying to keep things secret from the other devotees. So you see Puranjana you are painting a very one sided version, and you are mixing up facts and dates.
I was there and I remember things, but you dont seem interested in my version. Of course you cant keep things straight and even deliberately try and make it out that I said no devotees went to NV or whatever, which I never did.
 
What were you doing at that time? Unable to do anything except stand around with your mouth open. I don't remember you lifting a finger at the temple. I mean, please , if I am remembering incorrectly, what was your service at the temple?
When I was there at the time , I don't remember seeing you at the morning program, mopping floors , going on harinam, going out to distribute books, or doing anything,except standing around looking for gossip.Too bad you weren't aware of what your wife was doing and what was happening to your kids. But you will never fess up to that its easier to blame someone else.
 
Prediction- instead of answering, or admiting any fault of your own, you will come back with some more of the Puranjana distorted enquirer news version.
 
1) Please give me a list of ALL the devotees who were "kicked out" of the Berkeley temple, what year ,and why.You wont be able to do that, and I know you wont answer that, after writing that dramatic statement to create a smokescreen, you then move on to other things.
I want you to be truthful , Puranjana, don't distort.
 

PJ said "  I also have to explain to people even today why there has only been 10 devotees in the temple for the past 10 years, because all the devotees were packed off to New Vrndavana, we have to tell people or they will be bewildered as to how this all occured. ys pd "

LK -Are you trying to tell me that the reason there hasnt been many devotees at the Berkeley Temple for the past 25years is because Hansadutta suggested that SOME of the devotees- who didnt want to stay in Berkeley and (WANTED to still follow him )  go to West Virginia (where Bhaktipada was willing to have them go there)..??
Keep in mind, H had admited in public, he had fallen prior to that, he repeatedly said he didnt want to manage, he repeatedly said he wanted to get himself together. And Iskcon had kicked H out of Iskcon or whatever you want to call it.
 
So here we are 25years later, and very few devotees, very few devotees anywhere.
Why is it that practically no one has been able to make their own temples?
These gurus left and in many places things came to a stand still. Harikesa ( as far as I remember hearing) was having his followers distribute lots of books. The tyrant left and instead of everyone being happy the whole place fell apart, as well.
 
Now whats happening? Those same people cant continue to distribute books, to preach to do service?
Its the nature of humans to want someone to worship and its a very easy trap for someone to want to be worshipped and someone to be the worshipper.
Thats why SO many Srila Prabhupada disciples have got re-initiated, by so many other living guru types.
They seem to NEED someone, to personally encourage them. How long are you going to stand around and blame what happened long ago on some fallen gurus? Why arent people doing something else? I know why..
no one can get along.Everyone is busy finding fault and arguing over things.Its Kali -Yuga, and unless the devotees stay fixed up they cant stand in the face of maya.
 
2) Now are you trying to tell me that these grown men, and a few women that went to New Vrndavan werent able to think for themselves and were just following orders, or what?
I went, there were some very wonderful things about the New Vrndavan community and the devotees there, but , I didnt like it,
didnt like Bhaktipada and I left, others could have to.!
Anyway, dont have time to argue with you, have to take care of the animals.
But Ill be back,
so while Im gone get out your history book and start getting your dates and facts straight so when you write something you dont have to guess and use a very one sided view.
lakshmi

 

 

 

 

[tim lee]

--- On Fri, 12/31/10, lakshmi kary <laksh...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: lakshmi kary <laksh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 4:43 PM

Hare Krishna
Dear Puranjana,
Wait a minute, in your typical style you dont give answers to your statements and then do the - throw more stuff(garbage) out to take the focus off what was being discussed.

[PD: No, you have never responded to my initial claims which I re-stated herein. You have to answer me, then I'll answer you. That is the process of discussion, instead, before answeringme, you asked question, you cannot answer a question with more questions?]

The letter I posted below is here. You made earlier dramatic statements in previous posts, now back it up with some facts. please answer my questions.see my original post below, in fact I think I will go through all the "STATEMENTs" you freely dish out without care, if they are true or accurate and ask you to prove it.

Personally I dont think anyone who has the patience to wade through your posts hasnt seen by now how you are all over the place, and cant keep on point.Thats because most of what you say is based on gossip, heresay, etc. (In addition, in regards to you new rant, please provide the data and year you were supposedly threatened and offered witness protection, because I would like to look it up , personally !)

[PD: I told you to ask officer Joe Sanchez, he is the one who was the liason for the FBI and police, and I said that he was my liason on my writings of 20 years ago, this is all old news. I was writing about Joe Sanchez in my first newsletters and this is all on my sites for the past 25 years, its public info that I cited Joe Sanchez for the past 25 years.]

Now I havent talked to Hansadutta about this stuff lately, but I would like to know how- Hansadutta could " "legally" put Kirtananadas people on the board". He had been expelled so to speak, and wasnt even there, but somehow he was responsible.

[PD: Hansadutta had his men doing that, they were the legal signers in the papers, read the book Monkey On A Stick, it cites the exact legal letter sent by Hansadutta's people, this is in public court record as well as the book itself. I have that entire book on my site, read it!]

Is that like Hansadutta is responsible after 25years of not being there, no one can make devotees in Berkeley, and Srila Prabhupada is on the Vyasasana there, like in your previous commentary???

[PD: Yes, he did not allow us to make it a Prabhupada devotee temple, he wanted to hand it back to the other bogus gurus, and it is now in the hands of these bogus gurus, as per the legal papers Hansadutta arranged.]

According to your version, Hansadutta seems to be a person who can be in several places at once, is very powerful and scary!

[PD: He had his people from New Vrndavana write legal papers, under his orders.]

I really, really dont think that (if you took 35 devotees who were living and supporting and part of the ISKCON temple after Hansadutta left and didn't come back) and asked them all, "Can you all say that Puranjana, a member in good standing, who was respected and loved by others, single handedly tried to save the Berkeley Temple, from ISKCON and others, and he tried in vain but failed"???

[PD: I got Atreya to get a lawyer and he stopped Hansadutta from giving it to Kirtanananda, it was given to Sawarupa Domodara and SDG in a deal made in court. I arranged for that by constantly calling Atryea.]

And that ISKCON had his back the whole time and supported him in all of his battles. Why don't you tell people why Atreya was there to begin with? These big temples and properties aren't whimsically transferred into different peoples names.

[PD: Right, Hansadutta wanted to hand it off to Kirtanananda, very whimsical indeed.]

Do even know what the over head expenses were at that Temple??? What was your plan for coming up with all that money?If you cant answer this then no point in glorifying yourself as a candidate for managing or even helping manage a temple.Do you even have an iota of what the property taxes and insurance is, how about the electricity bill?????????

[PD: What does that have to do with putting Kirtanananda in there? And now you are right, there is no money, so Atryea's wife is now giving money to fix things there, like the leaks, since there is no manpower. You are correct, taking it down to ten people means: that the plan was apparently, to make it bankrupted. That was not my plan, i did not want to send all the people to NV.]

I really, really doubt you could get more than 1-2 people from that time, who would sign their name stating a) that they respected you,such that they would follow or listen to you b) that you were a devotee in good standing c) that you were  capable and knowledgeable enough to run a temple Puranjana, I seriously doubt you could then nor now run any type of temple. Period. So it is weird when you go on and on and make yourself out as some sort of pseudo hero, angel, martyr or whatever.

You are good at what you do, yu love gossip, you love to hear bad and negative news and you thrive on it.

Only problem is you cant be trusted because you are constantly glorifying yourself, and embellishing all the facts with your delusions and illusions. First how is it that you were simultaneously at the Berkeley temple then, when you said in an earlier mail you were in Santa Cruz? PS. Yes I do have a grudge, because I don't like seeing you write nasty, confusing and derogatory things about me or my family. And, even when confronted with errors in your "reporting" you have no remorse, no I'm sorry , no , Ill correct that,etc. Ya, so after 26 years or so of watching you do your thing, I'm fed up with you.
 
ys
Lakshmi

PD: No problem, my web site is now getting 1.8 million hits a month according to our last counters, it was getting 2.5 million a month, so its still way up there, people are accepting my views, I do not care if others want to re-write this history, a large enough percent of people are reading mine and accepting. And now we are working on two new web sites, actually three if you count our India site, so we will be getting million of more hits -- and informing people. If you have another versio of events, what it is? You say my version is wrong, ok what did happen there to make it only ten people? ys pd]

[lakshmi kary]

Hare Krishna

Dear Puranjana,

 

So I see you still cant answer a direct question,

and when given more questions on your newest round of diatribe you still cant answer.

I get the point now,

you rely on Monkey on a stick for your information,

good work.

The National Enquirer sells lots of  newspapers - so does The Wall Street Journal,

that doesn't mean the info is correct, however, some newspapers

are more likely to tell the truth.

And sometimes the NE has to deal with law suits as well.

So go on, write your pseudo factual and dramatic re- creations, see where it take you.

 

One of these days I might want to get a website and re- write  your life history,personal info on

things you've done, said, etc.Comments from people you call your "friends".etc

We can include the life and escapades of your wife, equipped with pics and "insider ", first and second information, since you seem to want to sling mud , be prepared to get it back.

 

Some of it you might not even know about , either that or you are just plain...got your head stuck in the out house for so long.

 

Let us see if you can back up one of your dramtic statements about being offered protection in the witness program.

Now lets see , officer Sanchez who told me " he thought you were just as nutty as the rest of um"

was pretty old back then and must now be... probably not alive.

But we should all just believe you.?

I'll tell you why you are the worst of all, because you have used the pain and suffering of devotees to promote yourself over and over again. Your life revolves around the suffering of other people.

You are no different than the ISKCON gurus, have you noticed you even say "he he" etc when some juicey little tidbit of stool comes along for you to salivate over.

Lakshmi

[tim lee]

--- On Fri, 12/31/10, lakshmi kary <laksh...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: lakshmi kary <laksh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 6:00 PM

Hare Krishna
Dear Puranjana,
 

So I see you still cant answer a direct question, and when given more questions on your newest round of diatribe you still cant answer.
I get the point now, you rely on Monkey on a stick for your information,
good work.

[PD: No, I said this document is in the California courts regarding the property, its also in Monkey On A Stick if you want to see the actual text. The text is in court. I never said that Monkey On A Stick is the courts, I said Monkey On A Stick quoted the courts? When did I say MOAS is the courts, I never did, you are not even reading what I said.]

The National Enquirer sells lots of  newspapers - so does The Wall Street Journal, that doesn't mean the info is correct, however, some newspapers are more likely to tell the truth.

[PD: The LEGAL papers that Hansadutta's people wrote was submmitted into court, Atreya had to counter Hansadutta in court, to stop him from turning over the temple to Kirtanananda. I said this is all in court, ask Atreya's wife, she is the one taking care of the temple big problems now with her own money.]

And sometimes the NE has to deal with law suits as well. So go on, write your pseudo factual and dramatic re- creations, see where it take you.
 

[PD: I saw the court papers at the time, Atreya showed them to me.]

One of these days I might want to get a website and re- write  your life history,personal info on things you've done, said, etc.Comments from people you call your "friends". etc We can include the life and escapades of your wife, equipped with pics and "insider ", first and second information, since you seem to want to sling mud , be prepared to get it back.

[PD: I am not sligning any mud, Hansadutta tried to hand the temple to Kirtanananda, and he sent people there, why are you attacking Srimad Bagavatam and other devotees by saying he is a liar? He is not a liar, he and all the others were sent to NV.]

Some of it you might not even know about , either that or you are just plain...got your head stuck in the out house for so long. Let us see if you can back up one of your dramtic statements about being offered protection in the witness program. Now lets see , officer Sanchez who told me "he thought you were just as nutty as the rest of um" was pretty old back then and must now be... probably not alive.

[PD: He told me that he got an city award for making felony arrests, all from the temple.]

But we should all just believe you? I'll tell you why you are the worst of all, because you have used the pain and suffering of devotees to promote yourself over and over again. Your life revolves around the suffering of other people.

[PD: OK so the Berkeley temple in 1977 had nearly 200 devotees and three houses when Hansadutta took over, now there are no houses and 10 devotees, what is your explanation? Did the tooth fairy take all these people away? You have not explained what happened there?]

You are no different than the ISKCON gurus, have you noticed you even say "he he" etc when some juicey little tidbit of stool comes along for you to salivate over. Lakshmi

[PD: You are the one defending the process of mass exploitation of the Berkeley temple, there were 200 devotees originally, now there are maybe ten, you think that people had the authority to remove all these devotees, I do not. No more big thunderous street kirtanas, no books, no preaching, and you think that is authorized?

I do not. Srila Prabhupada said at least maintain, so there should be 200 there and three houses at least, actually there should be 600 devotees and ten houses, that is what should have happened and would have happened except, as Joe Sanchez says, "There was Srila Prabhupada, and there was those who though they were Srila Prabhupada," and just as Srila Prabhupada said, after I am gone, will the GBC spoil it? They did. You actually answered your own question, yes, by making the temple a ghost town, it cannot barely be maintained, you asked me how it can be maintained, well it needs people, not sending all the people away, you do not know how to maintain a big program, you need people, a ghost town will not work. Ys pd]

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Kurma Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Ken McLEOD <kurmano...@live.com> wrote:

Dear Pratyatosa Dasa PAMHO AGTSP
 
If we are going to forgive then we might also wish to forget if our forgiveness is going to have any real effect.
Forgiveness with conditions attached is not real spiritual forgiveness!

Sounds sentimental to me. Do you have a quote to back this up?
 

Hansadutta is the only one of the original 11(as far as i know) who has apologized.

He's not the only one who has apologized, but he is the only one who has admitted that Srila Prabhupada only appointed ritviks, and that the current ISKCON guru system is completely bogus because of the order given in the July 9th letter.

I have heard recently, that if you want to forgive someone, then you must run it past the editors of the sampradaya sun first, but i am not sure if this is true :) 

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Ken McLEOD]

Dear Pratyatosa PAMHO AGTSP
 
Yes prabhu, perhaps number 1, number 2, number 4, number 11, number 22, of the 26 qualities of a devotee are good starting points.
 
yfs
Kurma 
 

---

From: praty...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 04:26:04 -0500

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Criticism of the ISKCON Alachua TP for following the GBC/BBT
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

[tim lee]

Srila Prabhupada forgave the Gaudiya Matha gurus, but he never forgot their history, so he told us right from the beginning in India, these Gaudiya Matha guru have no manpower and only a "small group of a few old men" -- that's what he said, and this was because, they had "self appointed gurus who destroyed the mission." They drove everyone else out of the mission "to occupy the bricks and stones" and "to cheat the God brothers out of the property." That is what he said. He forgave, but he never forgot!

We have the same thing, Berkeley is skeleton crew, Gita Nagari is skeleton crew, New Orleans has almost no one except four pujaris imported from Bengal, all these temples are basically skeletons, Los Angeles has a few more people, because it is a green card factory or they would have no one, so what is the explantion?, Srila Prabhupada already gave us the explanation, bogus self appointed gurus, their idea is to make ghost towns out of their guru's mission. So we can forgive, but history is what it is.

My concern now is, what happens when Vidhi Bhakti dies, who will fix the crumbling Berkeley temple then? Answer, maybe no one, that is what I am talking about, making skeletons crew is why the Gaudiya Matha temples were crumbling, same identical process. Laksmi wants proof, go look at the temple here, and there is a ghost town there, that is the proof, and the place would crumble altogether except for Vidhi fixing the worst temple crumblings problem. Crumbling ghost town temples, that process was all explained to us in detail in 1971 in India, are we going to forget what Srila Prabhupada said too? Lets hope not! ys pd