The Poison Issue

[Howard Charles Best]

Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Devotees are really bad at keeping secrets. Therefore a conspiracy to poison Srila Prabhupada involving a half dozen or more of his intimate associates is practically impossible.

Historically, the only way to get away with a conspiracy to commit murder is to be part of a closely-knit, blood-relative crime family or to be part of a top-secret undercover government organization such as the CIA. One or two CIA agents pretending to be devotees could have pulled it off. It could have happened, and there is a lot of evidence that it actually did happen.

As far as the poison whispers go, here is the only explanation I've heard that actually makes sense:

http://pratyatosa.com/PoisonNot.htm

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa (http://causelessmercy.com/ http://rtvik.com/ http://pratyatosa.com/ http://feedacow.com/ http://llbest.com/)

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:33 PM, july9th <july9...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What is the proof that Srila Prabhupada was considering at least one
Ravana among his "disciples"?
He may have been considering something or someone else.

I read "Someone has poisoned me" when it first came out and was
convinced.
However I later read some other documents which challenged the
proposed 'poison theory'.

It's possible - but the evidence presented is not so strong, if you
come out of your bubble - and look at it objectively.
I pray that you are able to do that and will view the 'poison theory'
dogma for what it is.

After 7 years, BIF’s campaign concluded with a 20 minute documentary
on an obscure Hindi programme on Indian TV, in which the BIF spokesman
Jiterati Das, announced as BIF’s conclusion on the program that:

“We are simply for the investigation. We are not trying to come up
with an opinion – ‘Oh I think Prabhupada was poisoned. And someone
else says oh I don’t think Prabhupada was poisoned’. Both these
positions are useless.”
(Jiterati Das, 16/12/2006, Star TV)

On Dec 5, 3:56 pm, MARIO PINEDA <spiritpass...@msn.com> wrote:
> Hare Krishna. Well, it may help you to understand why Srila Prabhupada was considering at least one Ravana among his "disciples" if you understand hat Srila Prabhupada said he was concerned about the possibility that he was being poisoned. We have forensic analysis of the tapes and wala!!, whispers of poison in the milk etc and captured forensically. ;)
>
> Regarding Srila Prabhupad's hair forensic analysis, I paid for a small part of the study and got a letter from the scientist that performed the study advising for a criminal investigation on the case due to very high levels of arsenic. Nityananda das I estimaye spent around $60,000.00 for the studies and printing of the book., Someone has poisoned me. He went as far as baying 6 strands of hair of Napoleon who is well known was killed by arsenic poisoning, and had these also forensically tested. The hair of Napoleon and the hair of Srila Prabhupada had very similar levels of arsenic.  So this is what I am in part referring too in relation to the poisoning analysis and evidence. There is much much more evidence, I should make clear. Anyone. For a free copy of the book., Someone has poisoned me, just send me your address or P.O. box and I will send you the book.
>
> I trust my response has given you a better perspective.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mahatma dasa
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 06:27:00 -0800
> > Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: "Fix It or Leave It"

> > From: july9th...@yahoo.com

> > To: istag...@googlegroups.com
>
> > "Interestingly, when the disciples told Prabhupada that he may die if
> > he was taken, he responded., "Better to be killed by Ram, than to be
> > killed by Ravana." So in this way, he equated at least one of his
> > disciples to Ravana!"
>
> > Sorry, I fail to see the reasoning here, because Srila Prabhupada says
> > - "Better to be killed by Ram, than to be killed by Ravana." he was
> > equating 1 of his disciples with Ravana?
>
> > "Then, there is forensic analysis of his hair that gave no choice to
> > the scientist who did the science to advise for a criminal
> > investigation in Srila Prabhupada's case."
>
> > What specifically are you refering to?
>
> > On Dec 5, 3:40 am, MARIO PINEDA <spiritpass...@msn.com> wrote:
> > > Hare Krishna.
>
> > > Srila Prabhupada is most capable to purify and give the order to be diksa guru to a disciple, however there were NO qualified disciples for him to give such and order to.
>
> > >  This is because the disciples committed several most serious mad elephant offenses against Srila Prabhupada. These are not limited to the fact that., they did not obey his desire to have most of his disciples come to Vrndavana when his body was ill there. His disciples also did not take him around Govardan Hill as he wanted. Interestingly, when the disciples told Prabhupada that he may die if he was taken, he responded., "Better to be killed by Ram, than to be killed by Ravana."  So in this way, he equated at least one of his disciples to Ravana! Then, there is forensic analysis of his hair that gave no choice to the scientist who did the science to advise for a criminal investigation in Srila Prabhupada's case.
>
> > > Then the same great offenders that Srila PRabhupada compared to Ravana, declared themselves., "as good as Krishna" gurus just 3 months later!! Of course, they have not follow Srila Prabhupada's last will and testament, nor Srila Prabhupada's direction of management to have temple Presidents elect a GBC every 2 or 3 years. What to speak of the July 9th-1977 transcendental order to have ritviks assist with the initiation ceremonies for Srila Prabhupada's future disciples.
>
> > > Nowhere does it say in the Vaisnava philosophy, that Ravanas that disobey, poison and try to destroy the real siddhanta (conclusive teaching) of the spiritual master, as Srila Prabhupada's followers did against him, will in 3 months be purified and become true diksa gurus, specially when they still actually continue to disobey the orders of Srila Prabhupada 32 years later.
>
> > > So, no doubt Srila Prabhupada is qualified and authorized to purify and then order a disciple to be the next Sampradaya Acarya diksa guru, however, the disciple must also be most sincere in wanting to be purified and truly qualified and not be a disobedient Ravana wanting to kill the form of the master and his teachings too as it continues to be the case with Srila Prabhupada "disciples" and "followers". ;)
>
> > > Thanks for your attention.
>
> > > Hare Krishna.
>
> > > Mahatma dasa
>

[larry freeman p]

the creator of this perspective: Saksi dasa:  who was he initiated by?  in 1982?

---

From: hbe...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 21:05:15 -0500
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] The Poison Issue
To: istag...@googlegroups.com; Vaisnav...@yahoogroups.com

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[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

I don't know, but I heard that he was a member of BIF.

[gaura...@gmail.com]

Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Another thing in the poison issue that came to my attention is, that seemingly all people of West Bengal have a very high arsenic exposure: 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291000/

Arsenic is recognized as a potent environmental toxicant that causes severe health problems in populations chronically exposed to arsenic-contaminated drinking water. However, the disease manifestations often depend on individual genetic variability. Corroborative of this view, although more than 6 million individuals in West Bengal, India, are endemically exposed to inorganic arsenic, only 300,000 people show arsenic-induced skin lesions, the hallmark sign of chronic arsenic exposure (Chakraborti et al. 2002). This fact clearly elucidates that genetic variability plays a critical role in susceptibility toward arsenic toxicity. It is worthwhile to mention that in West Bengal, groundwater in 9 of 18 districts is contaminated with arsenic, far above the acceptable limit of 10 μg/L [Frost et al. 2003; World Health Organization (WHO) 2004]. Chronic arsenic exposure causes various skin manifestations that include keratosis on palms and soles, hypopigmentation, characteristic raindrop pigmentations on chest, back, and legs, and in extreme cases, in situ carcinoma or Bowen disease (Basu et al. 2004; Guha Mazumder 2003). These skin lesions generally develop with a latency period spanning more than 10 years from first exposure; however, the latency period may be as short as 6 months, depending on the concentration of arsenic in drinking water, volume of intake, and health and nutritional status (Haque et al. 2003). 

So they say arsenic concentration found in Srila Prabhupada's hair was 2.6 micrograms arsenic per gram of hair. Or 2.6 parts per million i.e. 2.6 ppm what is probably the same as all people in West-Bengal show up with. Although the concentration is approximately 20 times higher than what I would consider a normal average for unexposed individuals living in the United States... 

 

Pratyatosha's Prabhu point about TKG and Bhavananda makes sense. However, after TKG's terrible accident, why did Bhavananda not confess this cynical talk? Also, at this point,  it must have been clear for all that Prabhupada might leave soon. In such circumstance no sane person makes cynical remarks like this and giggles. All devotees knew that Prabhupada's condition is not a cold, but very, very critical, he might leave soon. 

To be cynical in that situation is rather macabre. If some people, at least Tamal/Bhavananda,  felt like, "it's a great relief when Prabhupada is gone", what does this mean practically? It shows that at this point, TKG and Bhavananda knew that Prabhupada did not appoint them to be diksa-gurus. At least so much should should be clear.

ys,

Gaurakishor das  

2009/12/6 Howard Charles Best <hbe...@gmail.com>

[Howard Charles Best]

Dear Gaurakishor Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Judging from the pictures I've seen, Srila Prabhupada's body definitely showed signs of some sort of heavy metal poisoning. Maybe arsenic was not the culprit. Maybe it was something else. Or maybe it was a combination of more than one heavy metal.

Suppose Tamal Krishna dasa Goswami (TKG) was a CIA plant and expert at pretending to be a devotee. Suppose further that he was poisoning Srila Prabhupada because of orders from CIA headquarters. Suppose still further that right after Srila Prabhupada said that someone might be poisoning him, to try to cover himself, TKG acted out being cynical about Srila Prabhupada's statement, and Bhavananda went along with what he thought at the time was a simply a sick joke. This seems much more reasonable to me than the theory that Srila Prabhupada was completely surrounded by a bunch of cold-blooded killers who had hatched a diabolical plot to murder him!

TKG also told Satswarupa that Srila Prabhupada was in so much pain that he had asked to be given something that would allow him to leave his body! This could be something that TKG concocted in order to again, try to cover himself!

After TKG left his body, Vipramukya Swami said that TKG had told him that he was afraid for his life because of the poison accusations against him. That's probably why TKG stopped going to the GBC meetings in Mayapur. My theory is that it took the Turley child abuse lawsuit against several branches of ISKCON, including TKG's ISKCON Dallas, to motivate him to finally go to one of those annual meetings. Then after the meeting was over, he was killed in a car crash on the way back to the airport in Calcutta!

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[gaura...@gmail.com]

Dear Pratyatosha Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

When Prabhupada started his movement he more or less moved to the West; where is no arsenic occurence in drinking water like, see report below, in Vrindavan/Mathura/Uttar Pradesh. 

In other words, his body became used to clean water. When Prabhupada arrived in Vrindavan, 1977, he must have felt the higher concentration of arsenic in the drinking water. 

Being physically weakened, it surely felt like being poisoned. In that sense, Prabhupada's statement of feeling poisoned is the same like it was first reported in 1980 in West Bengal, see below. 

Tamal being a fake devotee - Prabhupada would not have ordered him to become a ritvik priest and initiate on Prabhupada's behalf, that's too much far fetched.  

However, since it is on tape, the dialogue between TKG and Bhavananda is enough evidence that they made macabre remarks while Prabhupada was about to leave his body. What more proof do we need that Prabhupada did not appoint anyone to be the next acarya?

ys,

Gaurakishor das

"Arsenic occurrence, Uttar Pradesh, Mathura"

http://cgwb.gov.in/groundwater/Gw_quality.html

"The occurrence of Arsenic in ground water was first reported in 1980 in West Bengal in India. In West Bengal, 79 blocks in 8 districts have Arsenic beyond the permissible limit of 0.05 mg/l. The most affected districts are on the eastern side of Bhagirathi river in the districts of Malda, Murshidabad, Nadia, North 24 Parganas and South 24 Parganas and western side of the districts of Howrah, Hugli and Bardhman. The occurrence of Arsenic in ground water is mainly in the intermediate aquifers upto the depth of 100m. The deeper aquifers are free from Arsenic contamination. Apart from West Bengal, Arsenic contamination in ground water has been found in the states of Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Uttar Pradesh & Assam. Arsenic in ground water has been reported in 15 districts in Bihar, 9 districts in U.P and one district each in Chhattisgarh & Assam states. The occurrence of Arsenic in the states of Bihar, West Bengal and Uttar Pradesh is in Alluvium formation but in the state of Chhattisgarh, it is in the volcanic rocks exclusively confined to N-S trending Dongargarh-Kotri ancient rift zone. It has also been reported in Dhemaji district of Assam.  The following table shows the occurrence of Arsenic in ground water in some state of India."

2009/12/6 Howard Charles Best <hbe...@gmail.com>

Dear Gaurakishor Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

[Howard Charles Best]

Maybe you're right. I'm trying to keep an open mind on the subject.

After 32 years of putting lots of money into investigating the poison theory with almost no result, the theory seems to be getting weaker and weaker. Like you said, the sinister sounding whispers and other poison related comments by the "zonal acharyas," simply give further evidence that Srila Prabhupada only appointed "ritvik representatives of the Acharya" and nothing more than that.

The sooner that the GBC reinstates Srila Prabhupada's ritvik initiation system, the better. There is no other solution to ISKCON's many problems which makes any sense.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

2009/12/6 gaura...@gmail.com <gaura...@gmail.com>

[Shyamasundara Dasa]

Prabhus, I've just read this whole thread and I've got some
information.

Firstly, Sakshi Gopal Prabhu was not only a member of BIF, but he was
the founder of BIF, and also the real brains of BIF.

What I say next was told to me by Sakshi personally ...

The reason he wrote

http://pratyatosa.com/PoisonNot.htm

was as a spoof to see if there was anyone who hadn't fallen asleep at
the wheel. Most have, it seems. Hard to comprehend? Well, early in
the new year, Sakshi will be breaking his two year silence and giving
full insight on this point. And others. Including factual analysis
of the debacle of a documentary (yes, the one in Hindi) where Jitarati
made his foolish remark referred to earlier. And also an explanation
of why he (Sakshi) has been silent for so long. It will be a sock-
knocker-off, be assured! When things were hot with BIF, Sakshi had
the GBC completely on the back foot. What happened? Stay tuned!

On Dec 6, 6:23 am, Howard Charles Best <hbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe you're right. I'm trying to keep an open mind on the subject.
>
> After 32 years of putting lots of money into investigating the poison theory
> with almost no result, the theory seems to be getting weaker and weaker.
> Like you said, the sinister sounding whispers and other poison related
> comments by the "zonal acharyas," simply give further evidence that Srila
> Prabhupada only appointed "ritvik representatives of the Acharya" and
> nothing more than that.
>
> The sooner that the GBC reinstates Srila Prabhupada's ritvik initiation

> system <http://rtvik.com/>, the better. There is no other solution to

> ISKCON's many problems which makes any sense.
>
> Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>

> 2009/12/6 gaurakis...@gmail.com <gaurakis...@gmail.com>

> > Arsenic in ground water in some state of India<http://cgwb.gov.in/groundwater/Gw_quality.html>
> > ."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

Sounds intriguing, but why wait until early next year? Why not now?

[Shyamasundara Dasa]

Because it is being done as an audio interview. And Sakshi & I can't
get together till the new year. In a month from now it will be on the
net, Krsna willing.

On Dec 6, 10:30 am, "Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)"

> > the GBC completely on the back foot.  What happened?  Stay tuned!- Hide quoted text -

[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Shyamasundara Dasa <shyama...@disciples.com> wrote:

Because it is being done as an audio interview.

 And Sakshi & I can't
get together till the new year.  In a month from now it will be on the
net, Krsna willing.

Why can't he write everything down? Is he pressed for time?

In any case, make sure that the audio quality is good:

1. Use studio quality microphones.

2. Use wind screens.

3. Use pop filters.

4. Microphones should be right in front of the speakers' lips.

5. If there is background noise, then use noise canceling microphones.

6. Better to record at an audio level which is lower than normal so as not to risk getting distortion.

7. Record using a lossless format such as WAV or FLAC.

8. Do all editing in the lossless domain.

9. Compress and normalize the recording as the 2nd to last step.

10. Convert to MP3 as the very last step, but save the lossless version in case further editing is necessary.

[Shyamasundara Dasa]

Thanks. Shall do.


On Dec 6, 11:39 am, "Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)"

<pratyat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Shyamasundara Dasa <
>

[Urdh...@aol.com]

Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu,

please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I am a bit confused and irritated about your two statements:

"Devotees are really bad at keeping secrets. Therefore a conspiracy to poison Srila Prabhupada involving a half dozen or more of his intimate associates is practically impossible.

"After 32 years of putting lots of money into investigating the poison theory with almost no result, the theory seems to be getting weaker and weaker."

Why do you state that Srila Prabhupadas poisoning is a theory only. Who has invented this poison theory?

Why are you trying to play down the poisoning of our guru by calling it a theory only, when in fact Srila Prabhupada said he was poisoned and Bhakti Charu confirmed this as well as Tamal Krishna is confirming:

Bhakticharu: [to Bhavananda and others]: He's saying that SOMEONE gave him poison.

Tamal Krishna: Prabhupada was thinking that someone had poisoned him.

Bhakticharu: Yes.

Jayapataka: What did the kaviraja say

Bhakticharu: He said that when Srila Prabhupada is saying that, there must be some truth behind it

Tamal Krishna: Srila Prabhupada, Sastriji says that there must some truth to it if you say that. So who is it that has poisoned?

Srila Prabhupada: (does not answer, very long pause)

COMMENT: Very long Pause: Srila Prabhupada never answered Tamal's question. Why? From November 10 till 14, a total of four days, Srila Prabhupada says He is being poisoned, but always becomes evasive when asked directly by Tamal Krishna, the main suspect in the poisoning. Could it be that Srila Prabhupada did not want to discuss it with Tamal but wanted to bring it up with the kaviraja? Thus he spoke indirectly in English and much more directly in Hindi, because he trusted the Hindi speaking kaviraja much more than his English secretaries whispering about poisoning him? It appears that Srila Prabhupada was not able to talk directly about his poisoning to Tamal and his so-called English speaking leaders, who are the probable poisoners. No answer is also an answer.

Srila Prabhupada: my only request is , that at the last stage don't torture me, and put me to death [from SPC Vol. 36, November 3, 1977 tape recorded Room Conversation]

http://www.harekrsna.org/gurupoison/evidence/evidence.htm


Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu, please note that Srila Prabhupadas poisoning is not a theory.

Srila Prabhupadas own statements are very clear, which are confirmed by Tamal Krishna, Charu Swami and the Kaviraj.

Please rest assured, that this, what you describe as poison "theory", will never get weaker and weaker, because it is the words of your guru, which will be heard even after 10.000 years.

Urdhvaga das


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Thema: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
Datum: 06.12.2009 12:23:43 Mitteleuropäische Zeit
Von: hbe...@gmail.com
Beantworten: istag...@googlegroups.com
An: istag...@googlegroups.com, Vaisnav...@yahoogroups.com

Maybe you're right. I'm trying to keep an open mind on the subject.

After 32 years of putting lots of money into investigating the poison theory with almost no result, the theory seems to be getting weaker and weaker. Like you said, the sinister sounding whispers and other poison related comments by the "zonal acharyas," simply give further evidence that Srila Prabhupada only appointed "ritvik representatives of the Acharya" and nothing more than that.

The sooner that the GBC reinstates Srila Prabhupada's ritvik initiation system, the better. There is no other solution to ISKCON's many problems which makes any sense.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

Dear Urdhvaga Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

If it's so obvious that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, then why, after 32 years of putting in countless hours and lots of money, can't we even get the local police there in Mathura to do an investigation? Isn't it like beating a dead horse?

On the other hand, Srila Prabhupada's prescription of "ritvik henceforward for ISKCON" is very easy to prove. So, why not use out time, money, and energy to pursue the guru issue in a court of law?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[gaura...@gmail.com]

Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

So far from sastra point of view, whenever a pure devotee of the Lord is poisoned or killed by demons, Krishna immediately punishes those demons. Take Prahlada Maharaja, his father tried to kill his own son, so what happened, Krishna appeared as Lord Nrsimhadeva to protect His devotee. Similarly, we should have faith that by Krishna's arrangement Prabhupada's great movement will be re-instated and go on for the next 10,000 years peacefully.

So much faith we should have!

ys,

Gaurakishor das

 

2009/12/6 Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best) <praty...@gmail.com>

--

[Jack Eskildsen]

Nice thought, gonna be interesting to see how things unfold in coming years. There is so much corruption and demonic activity in nearly every institution in society these days it seems like sooner or later things have to get so absurd that goodness starts to make a comeback and then people that have some critical thinking abilities will be allowed to participate in the dominate institutions in society again instead of being driven out violently. I don't ever get my hopes up too much because my number 1 rule for defeating the matrix is do not overindulge in fear or hope.

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, gaura...@gmail.com <gaura...@gmail.com> wrote:

[july9th]

You never posted any quote from Srila Prabhupada, plenty of say so but
no direct quote.

> >  An: istag...@googlegroups.com, Vaisnavacoun...@yahoogroups.com

>
> > Maybe you're right. I'm trying to keep an open mind on the subject.
>
> > After 32 years of putting lots of money into investigating the poison
> > theory with almost no result, the theory seems to be getting weaker and weaker.
> > Like you said, the sinister sounding whispers and other poison related
> > comments by the "zonal acharyas," simply give further evidence that Srila
> > Prabhupada only appointed "ritvik representatives of the Acharya" and nothing
> > more than that.
>
> > The sooner that the GBC reinstates Srila Prabhupada's ritvik initiation
> > system, the better. There is no other solution to ISKCON's many problems
> > which makes any sense.
>

> > Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa- Hide quoted text -

[july9th]

> Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu,
>
> please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I
> am a bit confused and irritated about your two statements:

Pratyatosa Prabhu seems to have special mystic siddhi for irritating
people.
Or maybe its just an on-line experience, quite funny really cos he's
the moderator.

On Dec 6, 4:53 pm, Urdhv...@aol.com wrote:

> >  An: istag...@googlegroups.com, Vaisnavacoun...@yahoogroups.com

>
> > Maybe you're right. I'm trying to keep an open mind on the subject.
>
> > After 32 years of putting lots of money into investigating the poison
> > theory with almost no result, the theory seems to be getting weaker and weaker.
> > Like you said, the sinister sounding whispers and other poison related
> > comments by the "zonal acharyas," simply give further evidence that Srila
> > Prabhupada only appointed "ritvik representatives of the Acharya" and nothing
> > more than that.
>
> > The sooner that the GBC reinstates Srila Prabhupada's ritvik initiation
> > system, the better. There is no other solution to ISKCON's many problems
> > which makes any sense.
>

[Howard Charles Best]

Dear Mahatma Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

This is certainly an emotional issue, but let's not let this issue divide us. If it does, then Maya has won!

If there is so much evidence, then why no police investigation after 32 years? Judge by the result! The result is no police investigation, no one arrested, no one forced to be questioned by a lawyer under oath via court ordered video deposition.

The IRM is not convinced that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned. ISKCON Bangalore is not convinced. The GBC is certainly not convinced.

So, who have you convinced?

1. A few blind followers, but Srila Prabhupada didn't want his disciples to be blind followers. Srila Prabhupada said that we can only live for 3 seconds without air. He called New Vrindavan, "New Virginia." He sometimes misquotes verses. Are we to follow these things blindly, or are we to use our God-given intelligence in the serve of God (Krishna)?

2. A few who are addicted to fault finding, but Srila Prabhupada didn't want his disciples to be fault finders either. The karmis say, "Innocent until proven guilty!" Why should we have lower standards than the karmis?

To bear false witness is very sinful.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa (http://causelessmercy.com/ http://rtvik.com/ http://pratyatosa.com/ http://feedacow.com/ http://llbest.com/)

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:07 AM, MARIO PINEDA <spirit...@msn.com> wrote:

    Thanks Urdhvaga das prabhu. However, I did not start the poison investigation nor did I have anything to do with the printing of any book on the subject. The credit is due to Nityananda dasa prabhu and later to Sasi Gopal das of Australia who also wrote a book. Also Naveen Krishna, Jitarati, and other devotees should be credited.
    
    I did pay for a small portion of the forensic analysis of Srila Prabhupada's hair. I did donate a few hundred dollars for plain tickets etc and did jump start the investigation by these donations and by organizing a meeting with Mandapa, Jitarati, Naveen Krishna, Sasi Gopla das, Gupta dasa, Paratrikananda das and others. We all met at my house for near a week. Sasi stayed for 17 days working on his book and then went to India to talk to Kavirajs and other witnesses etc.  Soon after the meeting at my house, the www.n14c.org and the www.b-i-f.org web sites were started.
    
    The forensics of Srila Prabhupada's hair alone tell the whole story, although Srila Prabhupada who has perfect mind and senses also told about the concern that he may have been poisoned. There is other evidence, witnesses etc. As I recall, there was a gurukula boy from Mexico who noticed or heard about the poison plot. A lot of this is in the books.
    
     With any fault, Nityananda das and Sasi Gopal dasa may have performed their service, they have demonstrated in an authoritative scientific way a lot of evidence discovering poisoning.
    
    It should be noted that others who say., "No. Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned, nor was he surrounded by Ravanas", have failed to present any authoritative evidence to support their views! It is like saying in a court of law., Your honor my client is innocent, but fail to counter the prosecuting attorneys scientific evidence. So who will an intelligent person believe? ;) :)
    
    Sincerely,
    
    Mahatma dasa

[gaura...@gmail.com]

Thanks Pratyatosha prabhu, "Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? To bear false witness is a very great offense!" This is an important point, since we all live in the West where Prabhupada himself instructed us to live according constitutional state law. 

Prabhupada would never break the laws of a country, or ordered his disciples to do so. Prabhupada wanted to have his movement run legally according the specific state's constitution. Already people come up with, "radical elements within Vaishnavism", in other words, they target to prohibit Vaishnavism altogether in their country, kick out the Vaishnavas by law.

 

If Western Prabhupadanugas are not able to set up a replica of ISKCON Bangalore, a project that convinces people by itself, and, instead, go on debating like religious fanatics back and forth, it is hard to see that this is Prabhupada's example. 

Prabhupada instructed that kanisthas indulge in endless religious fights, but not madhyama adikari. Prabhupada ordered his disciples, to come to the madhyama adikari level and preach in such a way so that people can follow and not that people exploit the fighting among all those Vaishnava camps, to justify their sinful vikarma activities. 

ys,

Gaurakishor das

2009/12/7 Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best) <praty...@gmail.com>

But, if there is so much evidence, then why no police investigation after 32 years? Judge by the result! The result is no police investigation, no one arrested, no one forced to be questioned by a lawyer under oath via court ordered video deposition. Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? To bear false witness is a very great offense!

[Howard Charles Best]

Lord Sri Krishna is letting us (all of Srila Prabhupasa's disciples and followers) make every conceivable mistake right from the start, so history can record them. I, like Sattvik Prabhu (See below), have faith that Krishna will soon rectify all of our mistakes. From then on, Krishna willing, it should be relatively smooth sailing for Srila Prabhupada's discipes and followers for the next 10,000 years!

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: gaura...@gmail.com <gaura...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Thanks Pratyatosha prabhu, "Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? To bear false witness is a very great offense!" This is an important point, since we all live in the West where Prabhupada himself instructed us to live according constitutional state law. 

Prabhupada would never break the laws of a country, or ordered his disciples to do so. Prabhupada wanted to have his movement run legally according the specific state's constitution. Already people come up with, "radical elements within Vaishnavism", in other words, they target to prohibit Vaishnavism altogether in their country, kick out the Vaishnavas by law.

 

If Western Prabhupadanugas are not able to set up a replica of ISKCON Bangalore, a project that convinces people by itself, and, instead, go on debating like religious fanatics back and forth, it is hard to see that this is Prabhupada's example. 

Prabhupada instructed that kanisthas indulge in endless religious fights, but not madhyama adikari. Prabhupada ordered his disciples, to come to the madhyama adikari level and preach in such a way so that people can follow and not that people exploit the fighting among all those Vaishnava camps, to justify their sinful vikarma activities. 

ys,

Gaurakishor das

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sattvic Das <vaiku...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: The Poison Issue
To: Howard Charles Best <hbe...@gmail.com>

Dear Pratyatosa prabhu. Hare Krishna.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

You have been sending me all these e-mail exchanges and even though I am a fool and certainly not competent to discuss these subject matters, still I would like to express my heart. Whether Srila Prabhupada's physical body was poisoned or not is something that has created much speculation over the years with no end in sight. The issue has divided the devotees to the delight of the GBCs.

The fact that cannot be denied however is that Srila Prabhupada's LEGACY has been poisoned. His institution has been poisoned, his disciples have been poisoned and this is unquestionably true. This is what we have to address. How long are we to discuss the poison issue? Nobody is paying any attention to it any longer. Devotees like Jitarati prabhu, Mandapa prabhu and others have tried to start a case here in India and ended up being cheated by the lawyer they appointed and were entangled in the quagmire that is the Indian so-called legal system. Why even discuss it? Where will such discussion lead us to? More and more speculation, that's all. We are here and there scattered like leaves in the wind. Who is there to collect us again to form the society that Srila Prabhupada wanted? My heart is pained at my predicament of having to live alone here in Kolkata without the association of the devotees. With Adridharan prabhu we had so many wonderful plans here in the birth city of Srila Prabhupada but the GBC poison killed that too.

This is history repeating itself prabhuji. It happened with every major religion in this miserable world.

The GBC have poisoned Srila  Prabhupada and are continuing to spew that venom every day since Srila Prabhupada left this miserable world. The GBC is the culprit that history will blame for the continuing poisoning of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada once said that Iskcon was his body. So. There you are. They are trying to kill his body every day with their lies and false ambitions. They have gorged themselves with the hog stool of profit, adoration and distinction and they will do anything within their power to keep continuing to poison Srila Prabhupada. That is the way of this miserable world.

However, I have faith. I have faith that Sri Krishna is in control, and that at the right time he will rectify or eliminate the hog stool eaters that are plaguing his institution. I have faith that the sincere devotees will be able to find shelter once more in the house that Srila Prabhupada built, so that we may rejoice in the sweet sound of kirtan together for his pleasure and for our purification. I pray for that day to come soon because my heart bleeds at seeing so many wonderful devotees separated due to the poisoning of Iskcon by a bunch of hog stool eating fools.

All glories to your service. All glories to the assembled devotees. All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Your insignificant foolish servant

Sattvic Das 

[Urdh...@aol.com]

Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu. Obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada

I completely agree with you, that it is a great offence to bear false witness. But Srila Prabhupadas witness is not false. I think it is even a greater offence to deny Srila Prabhupadas poison complaints, declaring them to be "theories" only, concocted by someone else? Sure, Prabhupada is so stupid; he does not know what he is saying by stating that poison has been given to him? eeeh? Why isn't Srila Prabhupada allowed to bear witness himself? Why are his poison complaints denigrated to theories only? Or as you describe it as "poison theory" concocted by some other devotes who bear false witness?  Who bears false witness other than Prabhupada? It is his complaint, not mine. Why are always devotees attacked who repeat what Prabhupada has stated? This is a strange twisting.

Strange also that a guru has to beg for his live, begging his disciples, that they should not kill him. Very advanced disciples, eh?

Srila Prabhupada: Someone says that I've been poisoned. It is possible.  

Doctor: What is he saying?

Srila Prabhupada: Someone says that someone has given poison.

Doctor: To whom?

Srila Prabhupada: To me.

(Room Conversation November  9, 1977, Vrndavana )

Srila Prabhupada: That same thing …that someone has poisoned me.

(Room Conversation November 10, 1977, Vrndavana)

Srila Prabhupada: That is my only request, that at the last stage don't torture me and put to death.

(Room Conversation November 3, 1977, Vrndavana)

To answer your question as to why there is no police investigation after 32 years, the answer is given by Srila Prabhupada:

The following quote is from the purport to Sri Isopanisad Mantra12 by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada :

"By false religious sentiments they present a make-show of devotional service, indulging in all sorts of immoral principles, & still pass as spiritual masters & devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession; & to mislead the people in general they themselves become so -called acaryas, without even following the principles of the acaryas.

These rogues in human society are the most dangerous elements &, for want of religious government, they pass on without being punished by the law of the state. They cannot, however, avoid the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in Bhagavad Gita that envious demons, in the garb of religious propagandists, shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20). It is confirmed in Sri Isopanisad that the pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after finnishing with the spiritual mastership business, which is simply for the matter of sense gratification."

Whenever an acarya [Spiritual Master] comes, following the superior orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or His representative, he establishes the principles of religion, as enunciated in Bhagavad-gita.... Unfortunately, when the acarya disappears, rogues and nondevotees take advantage and immediately begin to introduce unauthorized principles in the name of so-called svamis, yogis, philanthropists, welfare workers and so on….The acarya, the authorized representative of the Supreme Lord, establishes these principles, but when he disappears, things once again become disordered. The perfect disciples of the acarya try to relieve the situation by sincerely following the instructions of the spiritual master….Similarly, a devoted disciple of the spiritual master would rather die with the spiritual master than fail to execute the spiritual master's mission.

[Srila Prabhupada from Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.48,50,51]

Dear Pratyatosa you are writing: "who have you convinced"

Please note that I don't have to convince anyone, because Prabhupadas personal poison complaints belong to Srila Prabhupada (not me) and if Srila Prabhupada can not convince you, than I feel sorry for you. If your own gurus poison complaint is just a "theory" for you, than what to do? If your own guru can not convince you, than who I am to convince?

It is not my business of convincing people and if the IRM and GBC is not convinced that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, than who cares? The poisoners will never agree that they have poisoned. We all know who the GBC is, a bunch of crooks, posing as false gurus who have hijacked Prabhupadas Iskcon.

You wrote: "This is certainly an emotional issue, but let's not let this issue divide us. If it does, then Maya has won!" 

Yes, this issue is certainly emotional because our guru is crying that someone has given poison to him and we don't believe him?

Anyway, however, I agree on your nice proposal to focus on Srila Prabhupada's prescription of "ritvik henceforward for ISKCON"  which you say is more easy to pursue. Still I have my doubts though, because anything ritvik is absolutely prohibited in Iskcon and regarded as a severe deviation.

Your servant
Urdhvaga das


-----------------------------------------

praty...@gmail.com wrote:

Thema: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
Datum: 06.12.2009 18:26:08 Mitteleuropäische Zeit
Von: praty...@gmail.com
Beantworten: istag...@googlegroups.com
An: istag...@googlegroups.com
Internet-eMail:

Dear Urdhvaga Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

If it's so obvious that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, then why, after 32 years of putting in countless hours and lots of money, can't we even get the local police there in Mathura to do an investigation? Isn't it like beating a dead horse?

On the other hand, Srila Prabhupada's prescription of "ritvik henceforward for ISKCON" is very easy to prove. So, why not use out time, money, and energy to pursue the guru issue in a court of law?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 11:53 AM, <Urdh...@aol.com> wrote:

[july9th]

A look at your quotes:

1. > Srila Prabhupada: Someone says that I've been poisoned. It is
possible.
2. > Doctor: What is he saying?
3. >Srila Prabhupada: Someone says that someone has given poison.
4. >Doctor: To whom?
5. >Srila Prabhupada: To me.

(Room Conversation November 9, 1977, Vrndavana )

line 1) This is "Someone" saying that Prabhupada has been poisoned.
Prabhupada SAYS " It is possible".
line 2) Doctor questions
line 3) Prabhupada confirms line 1 "Someone says". NOTE: He is
refering to "someone" other than himself who is making the statement.
line 4) Doctor questions who that "someone" says the poison has been
given to.
line 5) Prabhupada replys that the "someone" says the poison has been
given him.

Hardly convincing evidence, since he doesn't affirm the proposal made
by the "someone".
Neither does he deny.

> Srila Prabhupada: That same thing …that someone has poisoned me.
(Room Conversation November 10, 1977, Vrndavana)

First point is the above quote is not in the Vedabase. This was spoken
in Hindi.
So where does this translation come from?

An more accurate translation of the above phrase spoken by Srila
Prabhupada in Hindi, as given by the authors of the book "Judge For
Yourself", which is the 'bible' of the poison theorists, is:

"That talk (that) someone has poisoned me."

The actual Hindi is

Srila Prabhupada: Vahi bat ... je koi hamko poison kiya.

Has also been translated by Dr. M. Kapoor, the Principal of Jalan High
School, who has a Phd in Hindi:

"That Same Discussion ... That Someone has poisoned me"

Whatever translation you choose the words 'someone has poisoned me'
need to be understood in the context of the other words spoken before
them.
This quote is what the whole issue revolves around and as you say, if
this was as you want it to be, the debate would be finished.

> Srila Prabhupada: That is my only request, that at the last stage don't
> torture me and put to death.
>
> (Room Conversation November 3, 1977, Vrndavana)

Again this is not on the Vedabase - so from where?
If translated by the same guy who translated your previous quote, then
its probably more non-sense.
Besides this is quote proves nothing re:possible poisoning and rather
shows how scant the evidence is.

> >  Von: pratyat...@gmail.com

> >  Beantworten: istag...@googlegroups.com
> >  An: istag...@googlegroups.com
> >  Internet-eMail:
>
> > Dear Urdhvaga Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances.
> > All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
>
> > If it's so obvious that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, then why, after 32
> > years of putting in countless hours and lots of money, can't we even get
> > the local police there in Mathura to do an investigation? Isn't it like
> > beating a dead horse?
>
> > On the other hand, Srila Prabhupada's prescription of "ritvik henceforward
> > for ISKCON" is very easy to prove. So, why not use out time, money, and
> > energy to pursue the guru issue in a court of law?
>
> > Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>

> >> Urdhvaga das- Hide quoted text -

[MARIO PINEDA]

Prabhu. I don't know what happened after the forensic analysis of Srila Prabhupada's hair and other circumstantial evience, his concern that he may have been poisoned and all the mad elephant offenses against Srila Prabhupada.
 
The last I heard, is that to take the case to the Supreme court of India, it would have taken a lot of bribes of big money etc. I also understan that the attorneys contacted in India were doing it only for big money too. Money that we did not have. Also, I heard that devotees got sentimental and fearful that this poison issue would destroy ISKCON tec. Many did not want to samadhi open also.
 
However, the forensic evidence is still solid science. For this reason at least in part, something like 80% of devotees who have studied the case, believe Srila Prabhupada was intentionally poisoned. There are very intelligent devotees who did much research on the matter.
 
It is not at all rare that leading devotees of the Lord and often their close true followers face attempts on their lives. Prahlada Maharaja, Abraham, Moses, Joash, Solomon, David, Jesus, Mohamad, Mirabai, Haridas Thakur, Caitanya Mahabrabhu and our Srila Prabhupada are but a few examples.
 
O.J. Simpson was found not guilty, however, almost 100% of the people know he is murderer. The same with the false gurus, even if they did not poisoned Srila Prabhupada, they are guru killers because they have not obeyed the orders of Srila Prabhupada many times and on top of that, they are still being promoted by the ISKCON GBC as., " as good as Krishna " gurus.
 
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!!
 
Mahatma dasa
 
 
 
 
 
 

---

From: praty...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 06:20:46 -0500
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

But, if there is so much evidence, then why no police investigation after 32 years? Judge by the result! The result is no police investigation, no one arrested, no one forced to be questioned by a lawyer under oath via court ordered video deposition. Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? To bear false witness is a very great offense!

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:07 AM, MARIO PINEDA <spiritpassion@msn.com> wrote:

Thanks Urdhvaga das prabhu. However, I did not start the poison investigation nor did I have anything to do with the printing of any book on the subject. The credit is due to Nityananda dasa prabhu and later to Sasi Gopal das of Australia who also wrote a book. Also Naveen Krishna, Jitarati, and other devotees should be credited.
 
I did pay for a small portion of the forensic analysis of Srila Prabhupada's hair. I did donate a few hundred dollars for plain tickets etc and did jump start the investigation by these donations and by organizing a meeting with Mandapa, Jitarati, Naveen Krishna, Sasi Gopla das, Gupta dasa, Paratrikananda das and others. We all met at my house for near a week. Sasi stayed for 17 days working on his book and then went to India to talk to Kavirajs and other witnesses etc.  Soon after the meeting at my house, the www.n14c.org and the www.b-i-f.org web sites were started.
 
The forensics of Srila Prabhupada's hair alone tell the whole story, although Srila Prabhupada who has perfect mind and senses also told about the concern that he may have been poisoned. There is other evidence, witnesses etc. As I recall, there was a gurukula boy from Mexico who noticed or heard about the poison plot. A lot of this is in the books.
 
 With any fault, Nityananda das and Sasi Gopal dasa may have performed their service, they have demonstrated in an authoritative scientific way a lot of evidence discovering poisoning. 
 
It should be noted that others who say., "No. Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned, nor was he surrounded by Ravanas", have failed to present any authoritative evidence to support their views! It is like saying in a court of law., Your honor my client is innocent, but fail to counter the prosecuting attorneys scientific evidence. So who will an intelligent person believe? ;) :)
 
Sincerely,
 
Mahatma dasa

 

[sunil maity]

--- On Mon, 12/7/09, MARIO PINEDA <spirit...@msn.com> wrote:

---

The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free!

[gaura...@gmail.com]

Dear Prabhus,

PAMHO AGT Srila Prabhupada!

Why this tumult, nobody impeaches the credibility of Prabhupada's statement of being poisoned! 

But, please read carefully, Prabhupada did not say that he is 100% sure that his disciples are giving him poison, although they were suspect.

Whenever there is a crime, immediately all people are suspect. In other words, the poison could have also resulted from what is stated in report below, environmental pollution of Vrindavan's arsenic drinking water.

Brijbasis are used to the high amount of arsenic occurence in their drinking water, foodstuffs, but Prabhupada, when travelling in the West, got accustomed to pure drinking water. 

When Prabhupada came to Vrindavan Prabhupada was physically in a weakened condition, so, the option that Prabhupada felt being poisoned could also result from arsenic occurence in Vrindavan's foodstuffs, drinking water, milk, dub (coconut water), etc.

ys,

Gaurakishor das

"Arsenic occurrence, UttarPradesh, Mathura"

http://cgwb.gov.in/groundwater/Gw_quality.html

"The occurrence of Arsenic in ground water was first reported in 1980 in West Bengal in India. In West Bengal, 79 blocks in 8 districts have Arsenic beyond the permissible limit of 0.05 mg/l. The most affected districts are on the eastern side of Bhagirathi river in the districts of Malda, Murshidabad, Nadia, North 24 Parganas and South 24 Parganas and western side of the districts of Howrah, Hugli and Bardhman. The occurrence of Arsenic in ground water is mainly in the intermediate aquifers upto the depth of 100m. The deeper aquifers are free from Arseniccontamination. Apart from West Bengal, Arsenic contamination in ground water has been found in the states of Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Uttar Pradesh & Assam. Arsenic in ground water has been reported in 15 districts in Bihar, 9 districts in U.P and one district each in Chhattisgarh & Assam states. The occurrence of Arsenic in the states of Bihar, West Bengal and Uttar Pradesh is in Alluvium formation but in the state of Chhattisgarh, it is in the volcanic rocks exclusively confined to N-S trending Dongargarh-Kotri ancient rift zone. It has also been reported in Dhemaji district of Assam.  The following table shows the occurrence of Arsenic in ground water in some state of India."

 

2009/12/8 MARIO PINEDA <spirit...@msn.com>

[Howard Charles Best]

Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Here are some more interesting emails on the poison issue, including a rare email from Nityananda Prabhu, the author of Someone Has Poisoned Me.

By the way, I got a really good deal on a spare battery for the underwater camera that I purchased at Walmart for US$149 including the carrying case and a wrist-strap flotation device: US$9.99 with no shipping charge & no tax! Now I never have to be without a charged up battery!:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270487241845

Here are some pictures that I took with it:

http://llbest.com/PeanutButterAndBlueberries.htm

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa (http://causelessmercy.com/ http://rtvik.com/ http://pratyatosa.com/ http://feedacow.com/ http://llbest.com/)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ISLAND
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: The Poison Issue
To: Howard Charles Best <hbe...@gmail.com>

Dear Pratyatosh P:
PAMHO AGTSPrabhupada!

Somehow I got onto your forum, which is OK, as it is interesting (NaraNarayan P's was too much & I had to get off that one!). I am now in Fiji, hoping to do a farm project here.
.
.
.
About the poison issue, the responsibility to effectively present the total body of evidence rests upon me heavily. After Someone Has Poisoned Me, the GBC rebutted with their very faulty response, Not That I Am Poisoned. Since then, I have done significant further forensic research, and the results are quite substantial. For many years now I have been trying to write the results in proper form. This second book is almost done, and will deal with all the evidence, all the pros & cons, addressing all the usual arguments, to make some level headed sense out of it all.

There is, in my opinion, based on this evidence, little to be doubted that Srila Prabhupada was indeed maliciously poisoned, with cadmium primarily, a heavy metal that was not tested for earlier. But we must not be distracted by speculations of WHO did it, because we do not have much hard evidence as to who. There are a few prime suspects, suspected for strong reasons, but we definitely cannot accuse them without hard evidence.

So, my position is that His Divine Grace was physically and homicidally poisoned by cadmium, gradually, and His Divine Grace (the pure devotee's mercy) was poisoned, as Sattvic P described, by the corruption of ISKCON leadership, resulting in changed deity worship, changed books, changed guru succession method, etc.

Hope this helps or is of interest to your forum. However, please do not give out my address as I do not want to correspond endlessly with everyone.

YS
Nityananda das

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: july9th
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:48 PM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: MARIO PINEDA
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
To: ritvik group <istag...@googlegroups.com>

Prabhu. I don't know what happened after the forensic analysis of Srila Prabhupada's hair and other circumstantial evience, his concern that he may have been poisoned and all the mad elephant offenses against Srila Prabhupada.
 
The last I heard, is that to take the case to the Supreme court of India, it would have taken a lot of bribes of big money etc. I also understan that the attorneys contacted in India were doing it only for big money too. Money that we did not have. Also, I heard that devotees got sentimental and fearful that this poison issue would destroy ISKCON tec. Many did not want to samadhi open also.
 
However, the forensic evidence is still solid science. For this reason at least in part, something like 80% of devotees who have studied the case, believe Srila Prabhupada was intentionally poisoned. There are very intelligent devotees who did much research on the matter.
 
It is not at all rare that leading devotees of the Lord and often their close true followers face attempts on their lives. Prahlada Maharaja, Abraham, Moses, Joash, Solomon, David, Jesus, Mohamad, Mirabai, Haridas Thakur, Caitanya Mahabrabhu and our Srila Prabhupada are but a few examples.
 
O.J. Simpson was found not guilty, however, almost 100% of the people know he is murderer. The same with the false gurus, even if they did not poisoned Srila Prabhupada, they are guru killers because they have not obeyed the orders of Srila Prabhupada many times and on top of that, they are still being promoted by the ISKCON GBC as., " as good as Krishna " gurus.
 
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!!
 
Mahatma dasa
 
 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: tim lee
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
To: Urdh...@aol.com


Dear prabhus, The police never investigated the thousands of molestings cases, and they did not even care about all the molesting cases in India. That does not mean there was no molesting? We cannot rely on the spaced out police to figure out what Srila Prabhupada said. The VNN made a survey of who agreed with the poison issue almost ten years ago, and most people agreed. However, this is not a popular vote issue. We have thousands of devotees convinced, they are gradually convincing others, who cares if the police ever investigated the assassination of Jesus, its irrelevant to the followers of Jesus. We have many sincere people forwarding the case, its expanding all the time. Even Narayana Maharaja is now convinced about the poison issue, one of the slowest turtles on the planet? This is not a poplulist issue, not a police issue, its an issue for the followers of a saint to understand whether their master was crucified or not. I for one, know he
 was. "Just as Lord Jesus was killed, they may kill me also," right. thanks pd  

[PS: Apparently, not everyone is aware of my blog, which anyone can read here:]
http://blogs.myspace.com/52199499

[MARIO PINEDA]

Pratyatosa dasa prabhu. It seems you do not accept forensic sciences when the WHOLE world does. ISKCON Bangalore has sent a flier to all its members giving the internet web sites about the poison issue. Historically, I know of no devotees that would not consider most seriously the attacks or murder of their spiritual master. Practically all would not consider forensic sciences as  blind following. This is not fault finding, but scientific evidence.
 
Pratyatoda dasa prabhu. I have not followed much of what goes on in this group, nor to I know you well at all, so I don't know. So kindly answer this question. Do you think the ISKCON gurus are true gurus authorized or ordered by Srila Prabhupada to sit in ISKCON on the seat of Veda Vyas? Also, do you think the GBC is auhtorized and has followed all the orders of Srila Prabhupada? Thanks before hand for your answers.
 
Sincerely,
 
Mahatma dasa
 

 

---

From: hbe...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:31:54 -0500

Subject: Re: The Poison Issue

To: istag...@googlegroups.com; Vaisnav...@yahoogroups.com

[MARIO PINEDA]

Hare Krishna. As religious fanatics as I we may  be, we still feed a full Krisha Prasada dinner to over 100 homeless each month for 5 years. We had 51 people over for Janmastami also. In addition, I keep being asked to speak at 3 major community events each year. We are also having a conference of scholars on december 18th. We also do not think that forensics is a non scientific way, since all auhtoritative scientist have shown of the contrary.
 
Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!
 
Sincerely,
 
Mahatma dasa
 

---

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 14:52:57 +0100
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
From: gaura...@gmail.com
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

[MARIO PINEDA]

Man you are behind in the things in relation to our spiritual master! Particularly if he was poisoned or not! You just found out about Sasi Gopala dasa!! He has been researching very successfully abut the poison issue for years and years. He wrote a very good book on the subject that every disciple and follower of Srila Prabhupada should read. He also has the web site., www.b-i-f.org for years and years! Hmmm. Well. Better late than never. 
 
MD
 

---

From: praty...@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:30:49 -0500

Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue

To: istag...@googlegroups.com

[MARIO PINEDA]

Hare Krishna. Good time to tell what I was told by a devotee who had to do jail time for heoin traficking. I had heard that Tamal Krishna Goswami had done trafficking wiht this devotee, so as soon as I could, I approached this devotee whe he got out of jail about it. I asked him., Prabhu. Is it true that Tamal Krishna Maharaja was also involved in your heroin trafficking in South East Asia? He responded. No, he never got involved, but he did offer assistance. He offered ., "protection" for the operation.
 
Now if you ask me, protection for a heroin drug ring, means total violent mafia. What do you think?
 
Also. I had also heard of weird things Tamal did in the Philippines, so I asked a Pilipino devotee that was temporarily living in L.A. The devotee got so scared when I asked him and refused to say a word. However, he knew me somewhat and gradually I convinced him of the importance of him relating any wrong doing. So after asking me to promise to not tell of  his identity, he said that Tamal Krishna had suggested to a devotee that he kill himself. He also told me that Tamal had told another devotee that he should kill his wife for her being unchaste.
 
Do maniacs at times test their power by trying to convince others to do stream, unusual, cruel and criminal things? Of course they do. Thanks.
 
MD 
 

 

---

From: Urdh...@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:53:53 -0500
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
To: istag...@googlegroups.com; Vaisnav...@yahoogroups.com

[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

Dear Mahatma Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

It doesn't seem like you've even read everything on this thread, let alone the entire group. What do you think of my theory that Srila Prabhupada may have been poisoned by one or two CIA agents pretending to be devotees?

Have you even bothered to read the relatively short, one-page website that I created:

http://rtvik.com/

...?

You don't even seem to know English very well. Is English a second language for you?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa (http://causelessmercy.com/ http://rtvik.com/ http://pratyatosa.com/ http://feedacow.com/ http://llbest.com/)

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:26 AM, MARIO PINEDA <spirit...@msn.com> wrote:

Pratyatosa dasa prabhu. It seems you do not accept forensic sciences when the WHOLE world does. ISKCON Bangalore has sent a flier to all its members giving the internet web sites about the poison issue. Historically, I know of no devotees that would not consider most seriously the attacks or murder of their spiritual master. Practically all would not consider forensic sciences as  blind following. This is not fault finding, but scientific evidence.
 

Pratyatosa dasa prabhu. I have not followed much of what goes on in this group, nor to I know you well at all, so I don't know. So kindly answer this question. Do you think the ISKCON gurus are true gurus authorized or ordered by Srila Prabhupada to sit in ISKCON on the seat of Veda Vyas? Also, do you think the GBC is auhtorized and has followed all the orders of Srila Prabhupada? Thanks before hand for your answers.
 
Sincerely,
 
Mahatma dasa

[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:26 AM, MARIO PINEDA <spirit...@msn.com> wrote:

 ISKCON Bangalore has sent a flier to all its members giving the internet web sites about the poison issue.

Please provide proof that this is so.

[MARIO PINEDA]

Hare Krishna Pratyatosa dasa. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!!
 
I have read enough. I don't always respond due to the way out there THEORIES some present. I ma way busy preaching often times too. Much better way to spend my time I think. 
Some say the poison issue is a theory, but it is not. There is scientific evidence. Your opinions are pure theory because you are making claims without presenting any scientific nor circumstantial credible evidence. If you want others to take your theories seriously, then you should do as we have done. Form a committee or two. Meet in person. Spend $100,000.00 and come out with a couple of books and web sites and thus convince 80% or more of those interested in the matter to some degree as we have done. So you have to do similar to convince othesr of the "likely provability" of your theory. If you don't, it's because you are not really keen on your theory, or the thoery is just that. Not something that can be proven in a practical way.
It is not that we can say., I think this is what happened and then ask others what they think and that is it. You must show alibi and other solid evidence as our forensics have shown. It is not that all have to accept. Why accept? Because you are Pratyatosa dasa? Come on. You should know it does not work  that way.
 
Sincerely,
 
MD 
 

---

From: praty...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 02:33:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] RE: The Poison Issue
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

[MARIO PINEDA]

Hare Krishna. If I thought you were very serious about the issue, I would scan the flier I have and send it to you all. But I am way busy now with work, preaching and the passing of my mother. Also, why should I spend my wheels so much with you when you are just bringing up a theory but have no scientific, nor circumstantial evidence backing it up? You and others can contact the Bangalore devotees on this one if you do really care. Go to their site etc. I was given the flier personally by their number 2,3 and 4 men when we got together in L.A. How are we going to pass if we want others to do our homework?

 
Sincerely,
 
MD
 

---

From: praty...@gmail.com

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 02:54:04 -0500
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:26 AM, MARIO PINEDA <spirit...@msn.com> wrote:

 ISKCON Bangalore has sent a flier to all its members giving the internet web sites about the poison issue.

Please provide proof that this is so.

[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

You are the one who brought it up, not me. Therefore, you are the one who is refusing to "do your homework," right?

Since you have no proof, then it's just another unsubstantiated theory, right?

[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

$100,000.00! And all that you've accomplished is to conclude that there is a good chance that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, but not conclusive enough for the local police to take any interest in an investigation!

Without spending a penny, I can tell just by looking at the pictures of Srila Prabhupada's material body, during his final pastimes, that there was a good chance that he was the victim of heavy metal poisoning!

Wouldn't that money have been better spent suing the suspected perpetrators and forcing them to defend themselves under oath and in front of a court ordered deposition video camera?

[MARIO PINEDA]

Hare Krishna. If you are going to debate, do it in a serious scientific authoritative way. At least don't call forensic sciences a theory and present evidence that supports your theory. You don't want to spend money, don't want to present scientific nor circumstantial evidence to support your theory and now you want off the hook. Ok. You are off they hook since I don't think you will ever go beyond theory which shows you don't really care. So I ma not going to waste time. Next time, try to not do the same. If you are going to present a theory or belief, please back it up with at least a little of scientific or circumstantial evidence. Thanks.
 
MD
 

---

From: praty...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:10:13 -0500

Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

You are the one who brought it up, not me. Therefore, you are the one who is refusing to "do your homework," right?

Since you have no proof, then it's just another unsubstantiated theory, right?

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:05 PM, MARIO PINEDA <spirit...@msn.com> wrote:

Hare Krishna. If I thought you were very serious about the issue, I would scan the flier I have and send it to you all. But I am way busy now with work, preaching and the passing of my mother. Also, why should I spend my wheels so much with you when you are just bringing up a theory but have no scientific, nor circumstantial evidence backing it up? You and others can contact the Bangalore devotees on this one if you do really care. Go to their site etc. I was given the flier personally by their number 2,3 and 4 men when we got together in L.A. How are we going to pass if we want others to do our homework?

 
Sincerely,
 
MD
 

---

From: praty...@gmail.com

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 02:54:04 -0500
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:26 AM, MARIO PINEDA <spirit...@msn.com> wrote:

 ISKCON Bangalore has sent a flier to all its members giving the internet web sites about the poison issue.

Please provide proof that this is so.

[Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)]

But you are the one who is acting like a self-motivated conspiracy theorist by simply making things up as you go along, saying such things as "ISKCON Bangalore has sent a flier to all its members giving the Internet web sites about the poison issue," without giving a shred of evidence to back up your statement, even when challenged to do so!

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[july9th]

Seems the authorities in some parts of India are closing some of the
more dangerous wells.

"Most of the people in rural areas depend on tube wells, the water of
which is either contaminated with fluoride or iron, calcium and
arsenic making them vulnerable to diseases."

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Fluorosis,+bane+of+Nayagarh+villages&artid=/KH9PkGHPig=&SectionID=mvKkT3vj5ZA=&MainSectionID=fyV9T2jIa4A=&SectionName=nUFeEOBkuKw=&SEO=





On Dec 8, 6:19 am, "gaurakis...@gmail.com" <gaurakis...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> India<http://cgwb.gov.in/groundwater/Gw_quality.html>
> ."
>
> 2009/12/8 MARIO PINEDA <spiritpass...@msn.com>

> > ------------------------------
> > From: pratyat...@gmail.com

> > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 06:20:46 -0500
> > Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
> > To: istag...@googlegroups.com
>
> > But, if there is so much evidence, then why no police investigation after
> > 32 years? Judge by the result! The result is no police investigation, no one
> > arrested, no one forced to be questioned by a lawyer under oath via court
> > ordered video deposition. Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? To
> > bear false witness is a very great offense!
>

> > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:07 AM, MARIO PINEDA <spiritpass...@msn.com>wrote:
>
> > Thanks Urdhvaga das prabhu. However, I did not start the poison
> > investigation nor did I have anything to do with the printing of any book on
> > the subject. The credit is due to Nityananda dasa prabhu and later to Sasi
> > Gopal das of Australia who also wrote a book. Also Naveen Krishna,
> > Jitarati, and other devotees should be credited.
>
> > I did pay for a small portion of the forensic analysis of Srila
> > Prabhupada's hair. I did donate a few hundred dollars for plain tickets etc
> > and did jump start the investigation by these donations and by organizing a
> > meeting with Mandapa, Jitarati, Naveen Krishna, Sasi Gopla das, Gupta dasa,
> > Paratrikananda das and others. We all met at my house for near a week. Sasi
> > stayed for 17 days working on his book and then went to India to talk to
> > Kavirajs and other witnesses etc.  Soon after the meeting at my house, the

> >www.n14c.organd thewww.b-i-f.orgweb sites were started.

>
> > The forensics of Srila Prabhupada's hair alone tell the whole story,
> > although Srila Prabhupada who has perfect mind and senses also told about
> > the concern that he may have been poisoned. There is other evidence,
> > witnesses etc. As I recall, there was a gurukula boy from Mexico who noticed
> > or heard about the poison plot. A lot of this is in the books.
>
> >  With any fault, Nityananda das and Sasi Gopal dasa may have performed
> > their service, they have demonstrated in an authoritative scientific way
> > a lot of evidence discovering poisoning.
>
> > It should be noted that others who say., "No. Srila Prabhupada was not
> > poisoned, nor was he surrounded by Ravanas", have failed to present any
> > authoritative evidence to support their views! It is like saying in a court
> > of law., Your honor my client is innocent, but fail to counter the
> > prosecuting attorneys scientific evidence. So who will an intelligent person
> > believe? ;) :)
>
> > Sincerely,
>
> > Mahatma dasa
>
> > --
> > You have received this email message because you are a member of the Google
> > Prabhupadanuga group.
>
> > To post to our group for all the world to see, please send an email to
> > istag...@googlegroups.com
>
> > Getting too many emails? Please go to

> >http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/subscribeand change your email
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> > settings for you.
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> > For more options, please go tohttp://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi

>
> > To cancel your membership, please send an email to

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>
> > --
> > You have received this email message because you are a member of the Google
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>
> > To cancel your membership, please send an email to

> > istagosthi+...@googlegroups.com<istagosthi%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou­ps.com>- Hide quoted text -

[MARIO PINEDA]

Gaurakishor dasa. You obviosuly think that the devotees who wrote 2 books on the subject about Srila Prabhupada's poisoning, did not take the time to address the possibility of Srila Prabhupada getting the poison from wells in India, but they did. One of them went to India to investigate this aspect and also interviewed the son of the doctor/s etc.
Of course, the amounts of heavy metals found in wells in India contaminates the bodies to LESSER levels. This is also well known to the forensic scientists. This is why the scientist who did the analysis of Srila Prabhupada's hair and that of Napoleon, had no choice but to advise and suggest for a CRMINAL invetigation on Srila Prabhupada's case due to the much greater levels of heavy metals found in his hair. It's interesting to me that devotees do not take the time to read the well researched books out there as if Srila Prabhupada's poisoning is not very important at all. 
 
All glories to the eternal living spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada!!
 
MD 
 
> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:27:20 -0800

> Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue

> From: july9...@yahoo.com
> To: istag...@googlegroups.com

> Getting too many emails? Please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/subscribe and change your email settings, or request Pratyatosa Dasa (praty...@gmail.com) to change your settings for you.
>
> For more options, please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi

[Sambhu das]

Besides; Srila Prabhupada´s plea to be taken on parikrama was denied by His "disciples". w.f.it shows what kind of deviants they where.

Den söndagen den 6:e december 2009 kl. 19:01:06 UTC+1 skrev ancientvarnasramanism:

Nice thought, gonna be interesting to see how things unfold in coming years. There is so much corruption and demonic activity in nearly every institution in society these days it seems like sooner or later things have to get so absurd that goodness starts to make a comeback and then people that have some critical thinking abilities will be allowed to participate in the dominate institutions in society again instead of being driven out violently. I don't ever get my hopes up too much because my number 1 rule for defeating the matrix is do not overindulge in fear or hope.

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, gaura...@gmail.com <gaura...@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: gaura...@gmail.com <gaura...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
> To: istag...@googlegroups.com

> Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 9:38 AM
> Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna!
> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila
> Prabhupada!

> So far from sastra point of view,
> whenever a pure devotee of the Lord is poisoned or killed by
> demons, Krishna immediately punishes those demons. Take
> Prahlada Maharaja, his father tried to kill his own son, so
> what happened, Krishna appeared as Lord Nrsimhadeva to
> protect His devotee. Similarly, we should have faith that by
> Krishna's arrangement Prabhupada's great movement
> will be re-instated and go on for the next 10,000 years
> peacefully.
> So much faith we should
> have!
> ys,
>
> Gaurakishor
> das
>
>  
>
> 2009/12/6 Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard
> Charles Best) <praty...@gmail.com>
>
> Dear Urdhvaga Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble

> obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
>
>
>
>

> If it's so obvious that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned,

> then why, after 32 years of putting in countless hours and
> lots of money, can't we even get the local police there
> in Mathura to do an investigation? Isn't it like beating
> a dead horse?
>
>
>
>
> On the other hand, Srila Prabhupada's prescription of
> "ritvik henceforward for
> ISKCON"
> is very easy to prove. So, why not use out time, money, and
> energy to pursue the guru issue in a
> court of law?
>
>
>
>

> Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>
>
>

> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 11:53 AM,
> <Urdh...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>

> Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu,
>
>
>
> please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to

[rmd]

@"Could it be that Srila Prabhupada did not want to discuss it with Tamal but wanted to bring it up with the kaviraja?"

Dear Prabhus

PAMHO all glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Poison issue has two aspects - philosophical statements from sastra and those recordings from 1977.

From philosophical point of view, sastra says Krishna and His pure devotee when appearing in this material world have no material body are untouched by the modes of material nature.  Recently one mataji from New Zealand said that Krishna was killed by a hunter and therefore He has a material body. Same with Krishna's pure devotees, they have material bodies and therefore they can be attacked by the material energy. As you see,  if this is true our whole Vaishnava philosophy of Krishna controlling not every atom but also every neutron within every atom, raises suspicion. Either Krishna let it all happen - or, Krishna is not in full control. What is worse?

In sum Gaudiya-Vaishnavas always taught and will in future teach that Krishna and His pure devotee are untouched by the material energy. 

Now coming to the recordings from November 1977.

"Could it be that Srila Prabhupada did not want to discuss it with Tamal but wanted to bring it up with the kaviraja?"

When Prabhupada's states on 28th of October 1977 that this ayurvedic medicine administered to him felt like poison Prabhupada would have immediately replaced TKG&co by a team of other disciples what he used to do so often. Instead Prabhupada ordered TKG&co to be his servants for the next 4 weeks till he left this material world. 

In sum, as soon you come up with Prabhupada was poisoned you immediately state that Prabhupada deliberately agreed to be poisoned! Thus you have a Vaishnava acarya who knowingly committed suicide.

 

Someone who actually has read all of Prabhupada's books, has listened to all of Prabhupada's lectures knows that this totally contradicts Prabhupada's teachings. In fact, Prabhupada states that suicide is the most tamasic crime and that KC is meant to stop suicidal mentality of human society.

Already poison issue is exploited by all kinds of camps, see text attached, to discredit Prabhupada as Vaishnava acarya.

ys rmd   

 

[rainer hahn]

@"Could it be that Srila Prabhupada did not want to discuss it with Tamal but wanted to bring it up with the kaviraja?"

Dear Prabhus

PAMHO all glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Poison issue has two aspects - philosophical statements from sastra - and those recordings from 1977.

From philosophical point of view, sastra says Krishna and His pure devotee when appearing in this material world have no material body are untouched by the modes of material nature.  Recently one mataji from New Zealand said that Krishna was killed by a hunter and therefore He has a material body. Same with Krishna's pure devotees, they have material bodies and therefore they can be attacked by the material energy. As you see,  if this is true our whole Vaishnava philosophy of Krishna controlling not every atom but also every neutron within every atom, raises suspicion. Either Krishna let it all happen - or, Krishna is not in full control. What is worse?

In sum Gaudiya-Vaishnavas always taught and will in future teach that Krishna and His pure devotee are untouched by the material energy. 

Now coming to the recordings from November 1977.

"Could it be that Srila Prabhupada did not want to discuss it with Tamal but wanted to bring it up with the kaviraja?"

[tim lee]

The fact that pure devotees are attacked by rascals is well known. Jesus was aware he could die if he stayed, and he could have easily escaped town, but he stayed. Why that happens has been the subject of all sorts of speculation, but the fact that it happens is well known. Does the fact that pure devotees are attacked discredit pure devotees? I do not see how that can be the conclusion, Jesus is world wide famous and everyone knows he was attacked. ys pd

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[Pratyatosa]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatāka Mahārāja was telling that one ācārya, Śaṅkarācārya..., of the Śaṅkarācārya line—this was a while ago—he was poisoned to death. Since that time, none of the ācāryas or the gurus of the Śaṅkarācārya line will ever take any food cooked except by their own men.

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. You, of course, have been so merciful that sometimes you would take prasāda cooked by so many different people.

Prabhupāda: That should be stopped.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- November 9, 1977, Vṛndāvana

On Friday, September 12, 2014 4:42:25 AM UTC-4, pada wrote:

The fact that pure devotees are attacked by rascals is well known. Jesus was aware he could die if he stayed, and he could have easily escaped town, but he stayed. Why that happens has been the subject of all sorts of speculation, but the fact that it happens is well known. Does the fact that pure devotees are attacked discredit pure devotees? I do not see how that can be the conclusion, Jesus is world wide famous and everyone knows he was attacked. ys pd

[rainer hahn]

@"cooked by so many different people." Right, Prabhupada says here that his Guru Maharaja did not take food except when prepared by his own men. Not that Prabhupada is saying that his Guru Maharaja was poisoned to death. 

[rainer hahn]

@"Does the fact that pure devotees are attacked discredit pure devotees?"

You have to admit that there is a big difference of being attacked and suffering a humiliating defeat.

Right, Krishna lila says that every single day a demon showed up trying to attack Krishna. However, so far we know not one candidate was successful to defeat Krishna. Same with pure devotee. There might be an attack or as they call it, attempted murder. However, as devotees we have to believe that Krishna won't allow this to happen. If we lose our faith that Krishna won't protect His dear most devotee, then what is our position?

When it came to delicate issue Prabhupada would quote sastra. Not that Prabhupada would only present what is passed down about Lord Jesus. So far Prabhupada would sometimes state that Lord Jesus escaped and went to India and sometimes Prabhupada would say that Lord Jesus was crucified and killed but that he didn't like this idea very much.  Therefore Gaudiya Vaishnavas only quote Prahlada Maharaja, Pandavas, etc. in order to establish that Krishna's pure devotee might be attacked but is never destroyed. Rather vice versa, those who attack pure devotees are destroyed. Not that they get off lightly while a pure devotee is crushed. This is not Vaishnava philosophy. So kindly correct these impurities within the mind and everything will be alright.     ys rmd

[tim lee]

Yes Srila Prabhupada wanted to move to Mayapura and have his sister to cook for him, he said she should buy the produce at the market and cook it for him. In other words, he could trust her and not the GBC. ys pd

[tim lee]

OK well he said he was being poisoned, and that is an attack. I do not think he was making this up, he was making a valid statement. I also do not believe devotees who are killed are defeated, many great devotees died in the battle of kurukshetra. Any devotee who is killed in the service of the Lord is never defeated. Srila Prabhupada said, just as they killed Jesus, they may kill me also. He was aware of his situation and he would not have said "they may kill me also," if he did not think this was a distinct problem with his leaders. ys pd 

[B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP)]

What Rainer Hahn prabhu writes are his speculations, in his trying to "figure out" Srila Prabhupada and Krsna.

As you see,  if this is true our whole Vaishnava philosophy of Krishna controlling not every atom but also every neutron within every atom, raises suspicion. Either Krishna let it all happen - or, Krishna is not in full control. What is worse?

Why are you (Rainer Hahn) trying to figure out Krsna?

In sum Gaudiya-Vaishnavas always taught and will in future teach that Krishna and His pure devotee are untouched by the material energy.

Do you know what it means to be "untouched by the material energy"? (Pure devotees descending to this material world at some point leave the body they've inhabited after having rendered their service to Krsna here.)

(Srila Prabhupada had told the devotees years prior, about His Own Guru Maharaj, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur's being poisoned. Will you contradict that, which Srila Prabhupada told to the devotees?)

When Prabhupada's states on 28th of October 1977 that this ayurvedic medicine administered to him felt like poison Prabhupada would have immediately replaced TKG&co by a team of other disciples what he used to do so often.

How can you say (for sure) you "know" what Srila Prabhupada would and would not have done? (Yes, you use as your substantiation for your statement, what he used to do so often. Instead Prabhupada ordered TKG&co to be his servants for the next 4 weeks till he left this material world, but unless you hear from Srila Prabhupada directly why things happened as they did, it's only going to be your speculation. Do you know for sure (as you're saying) that Srila Prabhupada "ordered"? 

So many reasons can be speculated as to the "whys" and "whys not" but the point remains that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned by these criminals, (certain devotees present at that time who knew for sure, but afraid at that time, and even now, to say or try to do anything about it).

[rainer hahn]

@What Rainer Hahn prabhu writes are his speculations.......

This is the problem, you all believe that Krishna and his pure devotee when appearing in this material world have material bodies. They are eternal but are covered by a material body which at one point dies off and because this covering is material - it can be killed. Wrong!

It only makes sense for neophytes because they see with their eyes how a pure devotee's body is buried. 

However, this is wrong understanding. Prabhupada: "....and the body of the spiritual master is directly spiritual." (SB 8.3.24)

Directly spiritual means there is nothing material to it. It appears like a material body but it is directly spiritual. In other words, the body of a pure devotee is not controlled by the material energy but is directed by Krishna's internal potency. Although everything looks like as if this is a material body which gets diseased, old and finally decays it is a staging of the spiritual energy to fool the non-believers. 

Thus law of karma, material reaction, and any kind of attack won't act on the body of a pure devotee. 

Although inhabitants of Vrindavan faint when Krishna is attacked by some aggressor, Krishna enjoys this attacking play. 

Similarly when the Supreme Lord sees that there is attempt of His pure devotee being attacked, Krishna immediately checks every aspect of this attack. When Krishna decides, so far, but not further, no conditioned soul can transgress this limit. 

Krishna rather would dissolve this whole universe within a second than allowing His pure devotee being smashed. So all this propaganda of pure devotees being massacred by some sniper is simply flaring up kali-yuga and causing conditioned souls to reject bhagavat-dharma. Its getting a counterproductive annoyance. ys rmd

[Mario Pineda]

Hare Krishna. The Bible says., "Death, where is your sting. Tomb, where is your victory?"

I do not know of a any or many true prophets of the Lord, that did not leave their bodies. Or that their bodies where no destroyed in a violent way. So it is for those that do not kow the philosophy, that they may think that Srila Prabhupada may not have been poisoned. It is a very comon thing to have Ravana types to try to destroy he body of the true guru or prophet and their teachings, because they are envious and think they know better than the true spiritual master. But as the Bible verses say, there is no sting from the "death," of the true spiritual master, nor is there victory to the demons and the tombs, because the spiritual or transcendental teachings of love,  are the real and true identity of the true most merciful spiritula master such as is Srila Prabhupada. That mercy of love giving, is eternal and victorious.

Jai, all glorious and victorious ever living-loving Srila Prabhupada!!

Your servant,

Mahatma dasa

[tim lee]

OK first of all "we" never said anything, Srila Prabhupada says he is being given poison, "we" are not saying that, he is. We are listening to him and not Ram mohan. ys pd

[B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP)]

So Bhismadev, a Mahajana, did not leave his body on the battlefield of Kuruksetra?

Come on rmd, get real.

Your post isn't even worth writing any further to reply it... 

---

From: rainer hahn <raine...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 2:15 AM

Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue

[John Hanton]

Ram Mohan's way of thinking is nothing new. It is the same as many ISKCON leaders.

Never mind what Prabhupada says. We know better.

The fact is we know everything because Prabhupada told us.

If he hadn't told us, how could we even think it was possible?

They change his books, because they think they know better.

They don't follow his clear directive on how initiations should be conducted because they think they know better.

They didn't follow the DOM and still don't because they think they know better.

Prabhupada couldn't have been poisoned because we understand Krishna and shastra better than Prabhupada.

We could fill pages with examples of how we puffed up conditioned souls think that we know better than Krishna and His pure devotee. 

 " ar na koriho mane asa "  Nothing more than what the the bona fide spiritual master has given us.

When we fully accept and realise this truth, then Prabhupada can use us to fully conquer the world in 18 days.

We've got a lot of surrendering to do till then.

Ys

Jitarati das

---

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 06:46:16 -0700
From: istag...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: The Poison Issue
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

[Ron P Conroy]

jai Jitarati prabhu

[tim lee]

Yes Jitarati is correct, this is a pattern. He also said no more sannyasa, hows that working out?

Ok Niscala, in my opinion we should not allow a chicken without a head to manage Krishna's institution and create chaos for the Vaishnavas, create ill will from the public with bad media publicity, and so forth, whether individually or collectively. And if these folks had followed the original order "no more sannyasa, they are not qualified" we would not be having this discussion at all. These folks were in 1977 ALREADY falling from an artificial position which they were already told, they are not qualified for, thus the whole thing is a charade. I know for example an ISKCON sannyasa who was recently made by the GBC, and he also wears karmi clothes and goes to Starbucks and orders a mocha latte and he sits there on his mac book air laptop. OK for the record, a sannyasa is supposed to be doing harinama and living simply, not living like a business executive. The charade continues, and the society as a whole suffers. My solution is to say this is wrong, and -- having a chicken without a head managing your local gas station would be considered as dangerous and foolish because the neighborhood could explode, why should we allow a chicken without a head to manage our religion? This is the same old emperor has no clothes problem people had in ancient times, it was a charade then and it still is. In sum, a person who is not qualified for sannyasa is not having a personal falldown, he is creating chaos for thousands of people and he is adversely impacting the image of the entire Krishna society in the pubic eye, which is what Srila Prabhupada said was happening, they are making us look like a laughingstock. You missed his point. ys pd

[Pratyatosa]

As usual, Jitarati Prabhu has hit the nail on the head.

ISKCON's management incompetence is about what one would expect from a bunch of former drug/sex addicted hippies who suffered permanent brain damage by taking LSD. Brain damage which has been manifesting ever since early 1972 as an insanity commonly known as "delusions of grandeur."

Another insanity that they tend to manifest is that of the "control freak." "Control freaks...manipulate and pressure others to change so as to avoid having to change themselves..." (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_freak>)

Ys, Ptd

On Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:08:51 AM UTC-4, pada wrote:

[tim lee]

Yes, brain damage, hee hee, sums it up pretty good. The question now is, who are they really following, its certainly not Srila Prabhupada?

[Pratyatosa]

"Then Prabhupada can use us to fully conquer the world in 18 days."

There is not a shred of evidence that Srila Prabhupada ever once said anything even remotely close to conquering the world in 18 days! This bogus, puffed-up "Prabhupada said" quote comes from one of the madmen formally known as a "Zonal Acharya." Anyone who takes the ravings of madmen seriously is a fool! According to the VedaBase, Srila Prabhupada never even once said the phrase, "conquer the world in!" Therefore, it's not even his terminology! This obviously bogus "Prabhupada said" quote is yet another example of a self-motivated attempt, on the part of the "I wanna be a guru like Prabhupada" madmen, to bring Prabhupada down to their own level of arrogance!

Ys, Ptd

[Pratyatosa]

"[Prabhupada] even told us that if we would cooperate with [him], [he] would show us how to conquer the world in eighteen days!" What this self-motivated rascal is really saying is, "Worship and obey me. Then, according to Prabhupada, we can conquer the world in 18 days!"

[John Hanton]

Thanks for pointing that out after two years. You might be right on the 18 day part but you are way off on the conquering the world. Prabhupada repeated that so many times  including "in no time we will conquer the whole world"

Best to do your research more completely.

ys

Jitarati das

---

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 2:51 AM
To: Prabhupadanuga
Cc: hanto...@hotmail.com
Subject: "Conquer the world in eighteen days?"

 

[Pratyatosa]

Prabhu, if you think that Srila Prabhupada was doing anything except trying to give some encouragement to a particular disciple/temple leader in a joking sort of way, you are simply naive!

It's not arrogant if you say something that sounds arrogant in a joking way. The trouble is, the ISKCON leaders don't say it in a joking way because they want to make Srila Prabhupada seem arrogant like they are! That's the point.

We have to be careful not to fall into this trap.

Ys, Ptd

Prabhupāda: “If we introduce this Festival in all big cities of the world along side with book distribution then in no time we will conquer the whole world. Yes! Certainly I shall come to your festival next year, thank you.”

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Bhutatma — Bhaktivedanta Manor 7 August, 1973

[John Hanton]

Well I guess I am very naive cause I do believe that Prabhupada's books will conquer the world and already are. So that's what I do. Print and distribute Prabhupada's books, naive as I may be.

ys

Jitarati das

---

From: istag...@googlegroups.com <istag...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:06 AM
To: Prabhupadanuga
Cc: praty...@gmail.com; hanto...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: "Conquer the world in eighteen days?"

 

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[Jack Eskildsen]

Intersting discussion. I remember I read in Prabhupada's books that the brahmanas if there really are any in this age are in a terrible situation because the world is run by fools in the modes of passion and ignorance and the dynasties of the earth are inmical to the vedic cultureetc. but I have also seen quotes that said that Prabhupada said that there will eventually be a Krishna conscious government or that the 3rd or 4th generation Hare Krishna will be pure devotees. I don't know if those are real quotes of Prabhupada but I remember reading them somewhere on the internet.

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[Jack Eskildsen]

Good work, Prabhupada's books are the best books ever printed if you ask me and they do have the power to conquer the world if people sincerely read them without bias. I have been reading them for 25 years and at first I couldn't understand anything about Krishna consciousness but now I can understand the history of the world from a perspective that absolutely blows my mind but is too foreign for must people to wrap their mind around. For what is worth I don't think you are naive in recognizing the power of Prabhupada's books.

[Pratyatosa]

Prabhu, first you say that the ISKCON leaders are in big, big, maya because they think they know better than Prabhupada. Then you quote one of them like everything he says is the gospel truth. Don't you think that's a little naive? Don't you think that if they think that they know better than Prabhupada, then they just might think that they can also come out with new, improved "Prabhupada said" quotes? "Let's improve Prabhupada's books and his 'Prabhupada said' quotes also!" This may sound crazy, but that's what they are: crazy!

Therefore, what I'm saying is, "Anyone who takes the ravings of madmen seriously is, at best, a little naive."

And yet we go on quoting these self-motivated rascals like everything that they say is the supreme absolute truth, by mindlessly repeating their self-motivated "Prabhupada said" concoctions such as, "Your love for me will be shown...," "...lawbooks for the next 10,000 years," "...conquer the world in 18 days," etc.

Ys, Ptd

[Pratyatoṣa Dāsa]

And please forgive me, Jitarati Prabhu, for taking almost 2 years to reply to your message, but I've become more aware of bogus "Prabhupada said" quotes lately, and the only reason that I was re-reading this thread is because the poison issue has recently been brought up to me, yet again, via private emails.

Ys, Ptd

[Jack Eskildsen]

I have to admit some of those quotes do sound a little like something you would hear from a self help guru motivation seminar or some cheap thing like that rather than Krishna consciousness as presented in Prabhupada's books but all this stuff happened before my time so I don't really know what Prabhupada said or didn't say. What I know about Prabhupada is mostly from what I have read in the purports of his books and listening to Krishna devotees argue. :)

[LLBest.com]

Here's proof that the fact that Srila Prabhupada was probably poisoned using cadmium was first revealed on this Google Group almost 8 years ago!

On Tuesday, December 8, 2009 at 2:38:40 AM UTC-5, LLBest.com wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: ISLAND
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: The Poison Issue
To: Howard Charles Best

Dear Pratyatosh P:
PAMHO AGTSPrabhupada!

Somehow I got onto your forum, which is OK, as it is interesting. I am now in Fiji, hoping to do a farm project here.
.
.
.
About the poison issue, the responsibility to effectively present the total body of evidence rests upon me heavily. After Someone Has Poisoned Me, the GBC rebutted with their very faulty response, Not That I Am Poisoned. Since then, I have done significant further forensic research, and the results are quite substantial. For many years now I have been trying to write the results in proper form. This second book is almost done, and will deal with all the evidence, all the pros & cons, addressing all the usual arguments, to make some level headed sense out of it all.

There is, in my opinion, based on this evidence, little to be doubted that Srila Prabhupada was indeed maliciously poisoned, with cadmium primarily, a heavy metal that was not tested for earlier. But we must not be distracted by speculations of WHO did it, because we do not have much hard evidence as to who. There are a few prime suspects, suspected for strong reasons, but we definitely cannot accuse them without hard evidence.

So, my position is that His Divine Grace was physically and homicidally poisoned by cadmium, gradually, and His Divine Grace (the pure devotee's mercy) was poisoned, as Sattvic P described, by the corruption of ISKCON leadership, resulting in changed deity worship, changed books, changed guru succession method, etc.

Hope this helps or is of interest to your forum. However, please do not give out my address as I do not want to correspond endlessly with everyone.

YS
Nityananda das

[Joseph Langevin]

Thank you for the update Prabhu.

---

From: LLBest.com <hbe...@gmail.com>
To: Prabhupadanuga <istag...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 6:39 PM

Subject: Re: The Poison Issue

Here's proof that the fact that Srila Prabhupada was probably poisoned using cadmium was first revealed on this Google Group almost 8 years ago!

On Tuesday, December 8, 2009 at 2:38:40 AM UTC-5, LLBest.com wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: ISLAND
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: The Poison Issue
To: Howard Charles Best

Dear Pratyatosh P:
PAMHO AGTSPrabhupada!

Somehow I got onto your forum, which is OK, as it is interesting. I am now in Fiji, hoping to do a farm project here.
.
.
.
About the poison issue, the responsibility to effectively present the total body of evidence rests upon me heavily. After Someone Has Poisoned Me, the GBC rebutted with their very faulty response, Not That I Am Poisoned. Since then, I have done significant further forensic research, and the results are quite substantial. For many years now I have been trying to write the results in proper form. This second book is almost done, and will deal with all the evidence, all the pros & cons, addressing all the usual arguments, to make some level headed sense out of it all.

There is, in my opinion, based on this evidence, little to be doubted that Srila Prabhupada was indeed maliciously poisoned, with cadmium primarily, a heavy metal that was not tested for earlier. But we must not be distracted by speculations of WHO did it, because we do not have much hard evidence as to who. There are a few prime suspects, suspected for strong reasons, but we definitely cannot accuse them without hard evidence.

So, my position is that His Divine Grace was physically and homicidally poisoned by cadmium, gradually, and His Divine Grace (the pure devotee's mercy) was poisoned, as Sattvic P described, by the corruption of ISKCON leadership, resulting in changed deity worship, changed books, changed guru succession method, etc.

Hope this helps or is of interest to your forum. However, please do not give out my address as I do not want to correspond endlessly with everyone.

YS
Nityananda das

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[Pratyatosa]

You are welcome, Prabhu.

BTW, who has a history of killing people using cadmium? The US government? The Indian government?

[Pratyatosa]

IMHO, the GBC has only two choices: 1) Risk going to jail for criminal negligence. 2) Test Srila Prabhupada's hair samples (the ones that they have access to) for cadmium and make the results of the tests public!

PRABHUPĀDA: “As the post [of GBC] is very great, similarly, the punishment is also very great.”

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.13.15 — June 4, 1974, Geneva