Re: New ~ 'The Swami Song' my offering for Vyasapuja ~

[Patrick Hedemark]

No worries prabhu.   I was merely noting your willingness to "tutor" myself or GKD and not sure if that was expressed in the same vein.   My simple point was that no one needs to be "tutored" on the actual "purports" to BG - since Srila Prabhupada is THE TUTOR and he accomplishes this by means of HIS purports or as he referred to them in a letter in 1975 as "His Devotional Ecstacies".   In the Perfection of Yoga - the book I pass out liberally here in the land of "sarcasm"; New York/New Jersey - Srila Prabhupada states with clarity and finality in his 3 sentence final paragraph the following:   "Krsna consciousness is the last link in the yogic chain, the link that binds us to the Supreme Person, Lord Sri Krsna. Without this final link, the chain is practically useless. Those who are truly interested in the perfection of the yoga process should immediately take to Krsna consciousness by chanting Hare Krsna, understanding Bhagavad-gita, and rendering service to Krsna through this society for Krsna consciousness and thereby surpass all other systems and attain the ultimate goal of all yoga-- love of Krsna."     In that same BG in the verse I mentioned to GKD -  Srila Prabhupada reveals the secret to fully understanding the teachings of the BG itself: submissive inquiry and menial service to the Lord via His representative.   This is how the disciplic succession is passed on: sincere service to the purpose of the Lord.   Srila Prabhupada created the perfect system for accomplishing this all over the world. The above guidance from the POY is passed on by the each successive generation of disciples.   GKD is suffers from the misunderstanding that the BG can be understood differently - according to the "sampradaya" to which one derives this understanding,   Bhagavad Gita is to be understood AS IT IS,   The "sampradayas"  can differ only in what aspect of the BG they may emphasize or draw from in their practice and in which personal manifestation of the Lord they render their devotion.   But this is essentially irrelevant to us within the Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya. Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu IS the Yuga Avatara and HIS SAMPRADAYA is what we are concerned with. His teachings and their practical implementation come to us DIRECTLY and they are PERFECTLY COMPLETE. Nothing is missing or TO BE DISCOVERED or REVEALED.   His ideas on the Dead Prabhupada and the Living Prabhupada are very imperfectly expressed - at the least.   But I believe what he is TRYING to express is that one needs to approach Srila Prabhupada both DIRECTLY through his books and also, through his "living disciples" who exemplify his simple instructions and teach others to likewise understand and embrace them and hold each "next generation" of such disciples to the same standard application of Lord Chaitanya's teachings that he gave from the very beginning.   In this - there can only be actual agreement amongst us - if we are to indentify ourselves as "representatives" of Srila Prabhupada.   He left us the perfect and safe system within which we can all meet the simple requirements for perfect progress in Krsna Consciousness. That system relies upon all the standardized guidance of our Parampara and the simplest of procedures to act upon them.   Thanks   Praghosa   However - by calling the "living" disciple the Living Prabhupada - I do believe he is slightly confusing the matter. --- On Tue, 8/31/10, mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: New ~ 'The Swami Song' my offering for Vyasapuja ~ To: "amey...@gmail.com" <amey...@gmail.com>, "Gauridasa Pandita" <gaur...@aol.com>, "Patrick Hedemark" <pdhed...@yahoo.com> Cc: "Greg Jay" <jay....@gmail.com>, "Srimukunda dasa" <srimu...@yahoo.com>, "praty...@gmail.com" <praty...@gmail.com>, "aabha...@gmail.com" <aabha...@gmail.com>, "abhaya_m...@yahoo.com" <abhaya_m...@yahoo.com>, "adik...@gmail.com" <adik...@gmail.com>, "alexandre...@yahoo.ca" <alexandre...@yahoo.ca>, "alice...@att.net" <alice...@att.net>, "ange...@yahoo.com" <ange...@yahoo.com>, "angin...@yahoo.com" <angin...@yahoo.com>, "ann.tr...@gmail.com" <ann.tr...@gmail.com>, "bhag...@hotmail.com" <bhag...@hotmail.com>, "bhaktat...@yahoo.com" <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>, "bvsa...@gmail.com" <bvsa...@gmail.com>, "cc...@yahoo.com" <cc...@yahoo.com>, "compo...@yahoo.com" <compo...@yahoo.com>, "d...@thewsc.org" <d...@thewsc.org>, "dasd...@aol.com" <dasd...@aol.com>, "deshpa...@yahoo.com" <deshpa...@yahoo.com>, "d...@southwind.net" <d...@southwind.net>, "doro...@dslextreme.com" <doro...@dslextreme.com>, "esw...@sbcglobal.net" <esw...@sbcglobal.net>, "fallenf...@yahoo.com" <fallenf...@yahoo.com>, "fmor...@dharmacentral.com" <fmor...@dharmacentral.com>, "frank-...@hotmail.com" <frank-...@hotmail.com>, "gada...@yahoo.com" <gada...@yahoo.com>, "geno...@working-minds.com" <geno...@working-minds.com>, "gerisch...@yahoo.com" <gerisch...@yahoo.com>, "gregpr...@yahoo.com" <gregpr...@yahoo.com>, "gururagh...@yahoo.com" <gururagh...@yahoo.com>, "guruva...@yahoo.com" <guruva...@yahoo.com>, "hanto...@hotmail.com" <hanto...@hotmail.com>, "harv...@hotmail.com" <harv...@hotmail.com>, "has...@hotmail.com" <has...@hotmail.com>, "hks...@juno.com" <hks...@juno.com>, "hms...@yahoo.com" <hms...@yahoo.com>, "in...@farmeducation.org" <in...@farmeducation.org>, "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>, "jagat...@yahoo.com" <jagat...@yahoo.com>, "james...@email.com" <james...@email.com>, "jeff...@yahoo.com" <jeff...@yahoo.com>, "jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com" <jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com>, "jgc...@yahoo.com" <jgc...@yahoo.com>, "jiva...@yahoo.com" <jiva...@yahoo.com>, "july9...@yahoo.com" <july9...@yahoo.com>, "kamsa...@hotmail.com" <kamsa...@hotmail.com>, "kanha...@hotmail.com" <kanha...@hotmail.com>, "krishna...@yahoo.com" <krishna...@yahoo.com>, "krishn...@hotmail.com" <krishn...@hotmail.com>, "krishn...@gmail.com" <krishn...@gmail.com>, "kumud...@aol.com" <kumud...@aol.com>, "lak...@webtv.net" <lak...@webtv.net>, "lal...@gmail.com" <lal...@gmail.com>, "law...@juno.com" <law...@juno.com>, "madh...@yahoo.com" <madh...@yahoo.com>, "madhu...@gmail.com" <madhu...@gmail.com>, "mahar...@hotmail.com" <mahar...@hotmail.com>, "mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk" <mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk>, "messenger...@yahoo.com" <messenger...@yahoo.com>, "mgr...@sbcglobal.net" <mgr...@sbcglobal.net>, "mitche...@netzero.net" <mitche...@netzero.net>, "mrs...@hotmail.com" <mrs...@hotmail.com>, "mystiq...@yahoo.com" <mystiq...@yahoo.com>, "nar...@yahoo.com" <nar...@yahoo.com>, "nihar_...@yahoo.com" <nihar_...@yahoo.com>, "nityanan...@gmail.com" <nityanan...@gmail.com>, "nrsimh...@gmail.com" <nrsimh...@gmail.com>, "pan11...@yahoo.com" <pan11...@yahoo.com>, "pari...@btinternet.com" <pari...@btinternet.com>, "pg1...@netzero.com" <pg1...@netzero.com>, "pg1...@netzero.net" <pg1...@netzero.net>, "prtha_d...@hotmail.com" <prtha_d...@hotmail.com>, "pss...@juno.com" <pss...@juno.com>, "radhika...@hotmail.com" <radhika...@hotmail.com>, "raghu...@rogers.com" <raghu...@rogers.com>, "ramr...@aol.com" <ramr...@aol.com>, "rbenav...@yahoo.es" <rbenav...@yahoo.es>, "rc...@earthlink.net" <rc...@earthlink.net>, "roupamanja...@gmail.com" <roupamanja...@gmail.com>, "royalt...@yahoo.com" <royalt...@yahoo.com>, "royric...@yahoo.com" <royric...@yahoo.com>, "sagun...@yahoo.de" <sagun...@yahoo.de>, "she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com" <she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com>, "shyama...@disciples.com" <shyama...@disciples.com>, "spirit...@msn.com" <spirit...@msn.com>, "spro...@yahoo.com" <spro...@yahoo.com>, "stevie...@gmail.com" <stevie...@gmail.com>, "sunand...@hotmail.com" <sunand...@hotmail.com>, "sunil...@yahoo.com" <sunil...@yahoo.com>, "tamoha...@yahoo.ca" <tamoha...@yahoo.ca>, "taru...@yahoo.com" <taru...@yahoo.com>, "thepare...@yahoo.com" <thepare...@yahoo.com>, "trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk" <trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk>, "trini...@aol.com" <trini...@aol.com> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 6:30 PM Pragosha, I got the gist of your hilarious sarcastic response to GKD immediately. If you had any doubts about the mood and tone of my email, perhaps the air in NJ is finally having an effect on your brain.  I lived there for a long time, and am still detoxing.  LOL. See, nothing but sarcasm, it is who I am in the face of all this nonsense. Hare Krsna!   --- On Tue, 8/31/10, Patrick Hedemark <pdhed...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Patrick Hedemark <pdhed...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: New ~ 'The Swami Song' my offering for Vyasapuja ~ To: "amey...@gmail.com" <amey...@gmail.com>, "Gauridasa Pandita" <gaur...@aol.com>, "mark mclaughlin" <markm...@yahoo.com> Cc: "Greg Jay" <jay....@gmail.com>, "Srimukunda dasa" <srimu...@yahoo.com>, "praty...@gmail.com" <praty...@gmail.com>, "aabha...@gmail.com" <aabha...@gmail.com>, "abhaya_m...@yahoo.com" <abhaya_m...@yahoo.com>, "adik...@gmail.com" <adik...@gmail.com>, "alexandre...@yahoo.ca" <alexandre...@yahoo.ca>, "alice...@att.net" <alice...@att.net>, "ange...@yahoo.com" <ange...@yahoo.com>, "angin...@yahoo.com" <angin...@yahoo.com>, "ann.tr...@gmail.com" <ann.tr...@gmail.com>, "bhag...@hotmail.com" <bhag...@hotmail.com>, "bhaktat...@yahoo.com" <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>, "bvsa...@gmail.com" <bvsa...@gmail.com>, "cc...@yahoo.com" <cc...@yahoo.com>, "compo...@yahoo.com" <compo...@yahoo.com>, "d...@thewsc.org" <d...@thewsc.org>, "dasd...@aol.com" <dasd...@aol.com>, "deshpa...@yahoo.com" <deshpa...@yahoo.com>, "d...@southwind.net" <d...@southwind.net>, "doro...@dslextreme.com" <doro...@dslextreme.com>, "esw...@sbcglobal.net" <esw...@sbcglobal.net>, "fallenf...@yahoo.com" <fallenf...@yahoo.com>, "fmor...@dharmacentral.com" <fmor...@dharmacentral.com>, "frank-...@hotmail.com" <frank-...@hotmail.com>, "gada...@yahoo.com" <gada...@yahoo.com>, "geno...@working-minds.com" <geno...@working-minds.com>, "gerisch...@yahoo.com" <gerisch...@yahoo.com>, "gregpr...@yahoo.com" <gregpr...@yahoo.com>, "gururagh...@yahoo.com" <gururagh...@yahoo.com>, "guruva...@yahoo.com" <guruva...@yahoo.com>, "hanto...@hotmail.com" <hanto...@hotmail.com>, "harv...@hotmail.com" <harv...@hotmail.com>, "has...@hotmail.com" <has...@hotmail.com>, "hks...@juno.com" <hks...@juno.com>, "hms...@yahoo.com" <hms...@yahoo.com>, "in...@farmeducation.org" <in...@farmeducation.org>, "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>, "jagat...@yahoo.com" <jagat...@yahoo.com>, "james...@email.com" <james...@email.com>, "jeff...@yahoo.com" <jeff...@yahoo.com>, "jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com" <jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com>, "jgc...@yahoo.com" <jgc...@yahoo.com>, "jiva...@yahoo.com" <jiva...@yahoo.com>, "july9...@yahoo.com" <july9...@yahoo.com>, "kamsa...@hotmail.com" <kamsa...@hotmail.com>, "kanha...@hotmail.com" <kanha...@hotmail.com>, "krishna...@yahoo.com" <krishna...@yahoo.com>, "krishn...@hotmail.com" <krishn...@hotmail.com>, "krishn...@gmail.com" <krishn...@gmail.com>, "kumud...@aol.com" <kumud...@aol.com>, "lak...@webtv.net" <lak...@webtv.net>, "lal...@gmail.com" <lal...@gmail.com>, "law...@juno.com" <law...@juno.com>, "madh...@yahoo.com" <madh...@yahoo.com>, "madhu...@gmail.com" <madhu...@gmail.com>, "mahar...@hotmail.com" <mahar...@hotmail.com>, "mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk" <mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk>, "messenger...@yahoo.com" <messenger...@yahoo.com>, "mgr...@sbcglobal.net" <mgr...@sbcglobal.net>, "mitche...@netzero.net" <mitche...@netzero.net>, "mrs...@hotmail.com" <mrs...@hotmail.com>, "mystiq...@yahoo.com" <mystiq...@yahoo.com>, "nar...@yahoo.com" <nar...@yahoo.com>, "nihar_...@yahoo.com" <nihar_...@yahoo.com>, "nityanan...@gmail.com" <nityanan...@gmail.com>, "nrsimh...@gmail.com" <nrsimh...@gmail.com>, "pan11...@yahoo.com" <pan11...@yahoo.com>, "pari...@btinternet.com" <pari...@btinternet.com>, "pg1...@netzero.com" <pg1...@netzero.com>, "pg1...@netzero.net" <pg1...@netzero.net>, "prtha_d...@hotmail.com" <prtha_d...@hotmail.com>, "pss...@juno.com" <pss...@juno.com>, "radhika...@hotmail.com" <radhika...@hotmail.com>, "raghu...@rogers.com" <raghu...@rogers.com>, "ramr...@aol.com" <ramr...@aol.com>, "rbenav...@yahoo.es" <rbenav...@yahoo.es>, "rc...@earthlink.net" <rc...@earthlink.net>, "roupamanja...@gmail.com" <roupamanja...@gmail.com>, "royalt...@yahoo.com" <royalt...@yahoo.com>, "royric...@yahoo.com" <royric...@yahoo.com>, "sagun...@yahoo.de" <sagun...@yahoo.de>, "she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com" <she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com>, "shyama...@disciples.com" <shyama...@disciples.com>, "spirit...@msn.com" <spirit...@msn.com>, "spro...@yahoo.com" <spro...@yahoo.com>, "stevie...@gmail.com" <stevie...@gmail.com>, "sunand...@hotmail.com" <sunand...@hotmail.com>, "sunil...@yahoo.com" <sunil...@yahoo.com>, "tamoha...@yahoo.ca" <tamoha...@yahoo.ca>, "taru...@yahoo.com" <taru...@yahoo.com>, "thepare...@yahoo.com" <thepare...@yahoo.com>, "trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk" <trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk>, "trini...@aol.com" <trini...@aol.com> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 5:57 PM You did get the sarcasm of my comment I hope. No one requires "tutoring" of any kind. Not from you or GKD or anyone. SP's purports ARE all the tutoring one could ever require.  I presume that you get that. Thanks though for your comment. P --- On Tue, 8/31/10, mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: New ~ 'The Swami Song' my offering for Vyasapuja ~ To: "amey...@gmail.com" <amey...@gmail.com>, "Gauridasa Pandita" <gaur...@aol.com>, "Patrick Hedemark" <pdhed...@yahoo.com> Cc: "Greg Jay" <jay....@gmail.com>, "Srimukunda dasa" <srimu...@yahoo.com>, "praty...@gmail.com" <praty...@gmail.com>, "aabha...@gmail.com" <aabha...@gmail.com>, "abhaya_m...@yahoo.com" <abhaya_m...@yahoo.com>, "adik...@gmail.com" <adik...@gmail.com>, "alexandre...@yahoo.ca" <alexandre...@yahoo.ca>, "alice...@att.net" <alice...@att.net>, "ange...@yahoo.com" <ange...@yahoo.com>, "angin...@yahoo.com" <angin...@yahoo.com>, "ann.tr...@gmail.com" <ann.tr...@gmail.com>, "bhag...@hotmail.com" <bhag...@hotmail.com>, "bhaktat...@yahoo.com" <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>, "bvsa...@gmail.com" <bvsa...@gmail.com>, "cc...@yahoo.com" <cc...@yahoo.com>, "compo...@yahoo.com" <compo...@yahoo.com>, "d...@thewsc.org" <d...@thewsc.org>, "dasd...@aol.com" <dasd...@aol.com>, "deshpa...@yahoo.com" <deshpa...@yahoo.com>, "d...@southwind.net" <d...@southwind.net>, "doro...@dslextreme.com" <doro...@dslextreme.com>, "esw...@sbcglobal.net" <esw...@sbcglobal.net>, "fallenf...@yahoo.com" <fallenf...@yahoo.com>, "fmor...@dharmacentral.com" <fmor...@dharmacentral.com>, "frank-...@hotmail.com" <frank-...@hotmail.com>, "gada...@yahoo.com" <gada...@yahoo.com>, "geno...@working-minds.com" <geno...@working-minds.com>, "gerisch...@yahoo.com" <gerisch...@yahoo.com>, "gregpr...@yahoo.com" <gregpr...@yahoo.com>, "gururagh...@yahoo.com" <gururagh...@yahoo.com>, "guruva...@yahoo.com" <guruva...@yahoo.com>, "hanto...@hotmail.com" <hanto...@hotmail.com>, "harv...@hotmail.com" <harv...@hotmail.com>, "has...@hotmail.com" <has...@hotmail.com>, "hks...@juno.com" <hks...@juno.com>, "hms...@yahoo.com" <hms...@yahoo.com>, "in...@farmeducation.org" <in...@farmeducation.org>, "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>, "jagat...@yahoo.com" <jagat...@yahoo.com>, "james...@email.com" <james...@email.com>, "jeff...@yahoo.com" <jeff...@yahoo.com>, "jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com" <jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com>, "jgc...@yahoo.com" <jgc...@yahoo.com>, "jiva...@yahoo.com" <jiva...@yahoo.com>, "july9...@yahoo.com" <july9...@yahoo.com>, "kamsa...@hotmail.com" <kamsa...@hotmail.com>, "kanha...@hotmail.com" <kanha...@hotmail.com>, "krishna...@yahoo.com" <krishna...@yahoo.com>, "krishn...@hotmail.com" <krishn...@hotmail.com>, "krishn...@gmail.com" <krishn...@gmail.com>, "kumud...@aol.com" <kumud...@aol.com>, "lak...@webtv.net" <lak...@webtv.net>, "lal...@gmail.com" <lal...@gmail.com>, "law...@juno.com" <law...@juno.com>, "madh...@yahoo.com" <madh...@yahoo.com>, "madhu...@gmail.com" <madhu...@gmail.com>, "mahar...@hotmail.com" <mahar...@hotmail.com>, "mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk" <mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk>, "messenger...@yahoo.com" <messenger...@yahoo.com>, "mgr...@sbcglobal.net" <mgr...@sbcglobal.net>, "mitche...@netzero.net" <mitche...@netzero.net>, "mrs...@hotmail.com" <mrs...@hotmail.com>, "mystiq...@yahoo.com" <mystiq...@yahoo.com>, "nar...@yahoo.com" <nar...@yahoo.com>, "nihar_...@yahoo.com" <nihar_...@yahoo.com>, "nityanan...@gmail.com" <nityanan...@gmail.com>, "nrsimh...@gmail.com" <nrsimh...@gmail.com>, "pan11...@yahoo.com" <pan11...@yahoo.com>, "pari...@btinternet.com" <pari...@btinternet.com>, "pg1...@netzero.com" <pg1...@netzero.com>, "pg1...@netzero.net" <pg1...@netzero.net>, "prtha_d...@hotmail.com" <prtha_d...@hotmail.com>, "pss...@juno.com" <pss...@juno.com>, "radhika...@hotmail.com" <radhika...@hotmail.com>, "raghu...@rogers.com" <raghu...@rogers.com>, "ramr...@aol.com" <ramr...@aol.com>, "rbenav...@yahoo.es" <rbenav...@yahoo.es>, "rc...@earthlink.net" <rc...@earthlink.net>, "roupamanja...@gmail.com" <roupamanja...@gmail.com>, "royalt...@yahoo.com" <royalt...@yahoo.com>, "royric...@yahoo.com" <royric...@yahoo.com>, "sagun...@yahoo.de" <sagun...@yahoo.de>, "she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com" <she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com>, "shyama...@disciples.com" <shyama...@disciples.com>, "spirit...@msn.com" <spirit...@msn.com>, "spro...@yahoo.com" <spro...@yahoo.com>, "stevie...@gmail.com" <stevie...@gmail.com>, "sunand...@hotmail.com" <sunand...@hotmail.com>, "sunil...@yahoo.com" <sunil...@yahoo.com>, "tamoha...@yahoo.ca" <tamoha...@yahoo.ca>, "taru...@yahoo.com" <taru...@yahoo.com>, "thepare...@yahoo.com" <thepare...@yahoo.com>, "trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk" <trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk>, "trini...@aol.com" <trini...@aol.com> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 4:20 PM Well Pragosha, lament no longer, the Lord is so merciful he has sent you GKD in order to explain Srila Prabhupada's purports to you!  A real in the flesh living Bhagavata!  What pious activities you must have accomplished since your Diksa Guru died in order to receive a second chance!! And don't you worry, I think by the time GKD kicks the dust I will have advanced far enough to tutor you and your hapless godbrothers as needed. Sorry, couldn't help myself.  Hope you are well. ys B.Mark --- On Tue, 8/31/10, Patrick Hedemark <pdhed...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Patrick Hedemark <pdhed...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: New ~ 'The Swami Song' my offering for Vyasapuja ~ To: "amey...@gmail.com" <amey...@gmail.com>, "Gauridasa Pandita" <gaur...@aol.com> Cc: "Greg Jay" <jay....@gmail.com>, "Srimukunda dasa" <srimu...@yahoo.com>, "praty...@gmail.com" <praty...@gmail.com>, "aabha...@gmail.com" <aabha...@gmail.com>, "abhaya_m...@yahoo.com" <abhaya_m...@yahoo.com>, "adik...@gmail.com" <adik...@gmail.com>, "alexandre...@yahoo.ca" <alexandre...@yahoo.ca>, "alice...@att.net" <alice...@att.net>, "ange...@yahoo.com" <ange...@yahoo.com>, "angin...@yahoo.com" <angin...@yahoo.com>, "ann.tr...@gmail.com" <ann.tr...@gmail.com>, "bhag...@hotmail.com" <bhag...@hotmail.com>, "bhaktat...@yahoo.com" <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>, "bvsa...@gmail.com" <bvsa...@gmail.com>, "cc...@yahoo.com" <cc...@yahoo.com>, "compo...@yahoo.com" <compo...@yahoo.com>, "d...@thewsc.org" <d...@thewsc.org>, "dasd...@aol.com" <dasd...@aol.com>, "deshpa...@yahoo.com" <deshpa...@yahoo.com>, "d...@southwind.net" <d...@southwind.net>, "doro...@dslextreme.com" <doro...@dslextreme.com>, "esw...@sbcglobal.net" <esw...@sbcglobal.net>, "fallenf...@yahoo.com" <fallenf...@yahoo.com>, "fmor...@dharmacentral.com" <fmor...@dharmacentral.com>, "frank-...@hotmail.com" <frank-...@hotmail.com>, "gada...@yahoo.com" <gada...@yahoo.com>, "geno...@working-minds.com" <geno...@working-minds.com>, "gerisch...@yahoo.com" <gerisch...@yahoo.com>, "gregpr...@yahoo.com" <gregpr...@yahoo.com>, "gururagh...@yahoo.com" <gururagh...@yahoo.com>, "guruva...@yahoo.com" <guruva...@yahoo.com>, "hanto...@hotmail.com" <hanto...@hotmail.com>, "harv...@hotmail.com" <harv...@hotmail.com>, "has...@hotmail.com" <has...@hotmail.com>, "hks...@juno.com" <hks...@juno.com>, "hms...@yahoo.com" <hms...@yahoo.com>, "in...@farmeducation.org" <in...@farmeducation.org>, "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>, "jagat...@yahoo.com" <jagat...@yahoo.com>, "james...@email.com" <james...@email.com>, "jeff...@yahoo.com" <jeff...@yahoo.com>, "jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com" <jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com>, "jgc...@yahoo.com" <jgc...@yahoo.com>, "jiva...@yahoo.com" <jiva...@yahoo.com>, "july9...@yahoo.com" <july9...@yahoo.com>, "kamsa...@hotmail.com" <kamsa...@hotmail.com>, "kanha...@hotmail.com" <kanha...@hotmail.com>, "krishna...@yahoo.com" <krishna...@yahoo.com>, "krishn...@hotmail.com" <krishn...@hotmail.com>, "krishn...@gmail.com" <krishn...@gmail.com>, "kumud...@aol.com" <kumud...@aol.com>, "lak...@webtv.net" <lak...@webtv.net>, "lal...@gmail.com" <lal...@gmail.com>, "law...@juno.com" <law...@juno.com>, "madh...@yahoo.com" <madh...@yahoo.com>, "madhu...@gmail.com" <madhu...@gmail.com>, "mahar...@hotmail.com" <mahar...@hotmail.com>, "mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk" <mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk>, "markm...@yahoo.com" <markm...@yahoo.com>, "messenger...@yahoo.com" <messenger...@yahoo.com>, "mgr...@sbcglobal.net" <mgr...@sbcglobal.net>, "mitche...@netzero.net" <mitche...@netzero.net>, "mrs...@hotmail.com" <mrs...@hotmail.com>, "mystiq...@yahoo.com" <mystiq...@yahoo.com>, "nar...@yahoo.com" <nar...@yahoo.com>, "nihar_...@yahoo.com" <nihar_...@yahoo.com>, "nityanan...@gmail.com" <nityanan...@gmail.com>, "nrsimh...@gmail.com" <nrsimh...@gmail.com>, "pan11...@yahoo.com" <pan11...@yahoo.com>, "pari...@btinternet.com" <pari...@btinternet.com>, "pg1...@netzero.com" <pg1...@netzero.com>, "pg1...@netzero.net" <pg1...@netzero.net>, "prtha_d...@hotmail.com" <prtha_d...@hotmail.com>, "pss...@juno.com" <pss...@juno.com>, "radhika...@hotmail.com" <radhika...@hotmail.com>, "raghu...@rogers.com" <raghu...@rogers.com>, "ramr...@aol.com" <ramr...@aol.com>, "rbenav...@yahoo.es" <rbenav...@yahoo.es>, "rc...@earthlink.net" <rc...@earthlink.net>, "roupamanja...@gmail.com" <roupamanja...@gmail.com>, "royalt...@yahoo.com" <royalt...@yahoo.com>, "royric...@yahoo.com" <royric...@yahoo.com>, "sagun...@yahoo.de" <sagun...@yahoo.de>, "she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com" <she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com>, "shyama...@disciples.com" <shyama...@disciples.com>, "spirit...@msn.com" <spirit...@msn.com>, "spro...@yahoo.com" <spro...@yahoo.com>, "stevie...@gmail.com" <stevie...@gmail.com>, "sunand...@hotmail.com" <sunand...@hotmail.com>, "sunil...@yahoo.com" <sunil...@yahoo.com>, "tamoha...@yahoo.ca" <tamoha...@yahoo.ca>, "taru...@yahoo.com" <taru...@yahoo.com>, "thepare...@yahoo.com" <thepare...@yahoo.com>, "trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk" <trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk>, "trini...@aol.com" <trini...@aol.com> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 11:14 AM Greg Jay wrote: PAMHO AGTSP On May 15, 2009, at 4:33 PM, Srimukunda dasa wrote: Please explain again the difference between the person Prabhupada and the book Prabhupada? The difference is very, very simple. When we read the book Prabhupada we think we understand what to do, however we must confirm that by taking the advise of the living person Prabhupada. We see that many people have book knowledge but yet they all disagree as to how to understand correctly that book knowledge. This is because they mistake their own interpretation of the book knowledge with the actual understanding according to their sampradaya. Thus we confirm our understanding by guru, sadhu and sastra. ys GKD You see - you need a LIVING GURU in order to understand Srila Prabhupada's purports. Now that HE IS DEAD and NO LONGER "LIVING" in the flesh - what was once as easy as FIRST GRADE MATH to grasp COULD NOT BE UNDERSTOOD AT ALL.   I myself had personal experience of this.   On November 14th I read BG 18:57 - verse and purport AND I UNDERSTOOD IT PERFECTLY.   But to my surprise - on November 15th - the morning after Srila Prabhupada "DIED" and was no longer "LIVING" I made a simple experiment and again read this verse in BG AND - TO MY UTTER SURPRISE - I found that I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND IT AT ALL!!   IT WAS AS IF  I WAS READING VIETNAMESE!!   I approached a few Godbrothers - and asked them if they could understand this wonderful verse and purport.   To my utter disappointment - NOT ONE OF THEM expressed the ability to decipher its now deeply obfuscated meaning!   "Sorry I can't help you Praghosa! It's a mystery to me!"   "Sorry Bubba. No can do! Haven't a clue. Might as well ask me to translate Dostoyesky for you in Russian! This is a Mystery to me!"   I was right back to where I was in Catholic High School. Mystery.   And the amazing thing is - all 4734 initiated disciples of Srila Prabhuapda imagined that they could continue to understand what was previously clear to them - after our Spiritual Master "DIED". BUT they could not.   Well - check that - those lucky few - who took shelter of HH NM could still understand Srila Prabhupada's purports - cuz they all had a "LIVING GURU".   Those lucky few!!   "Oh but were my faith resting in hearing HIS explanation of Srila Prabhupada's explanation!"   I am doomed!   P --- On Tue, 8/31/10, Gauridasa Pandita <gaur...@aol.com> wrote: From: Gauridasa Pandita <gaur...@aol.com> Subject: New ~ 'The Swami Song' my offering for Vyasapuja ~ To: "amey...@gmail.com" <amey...@gmail.com> Cc: "Greg Jay" <jay....@gmail.com>, "Srimukunda dasa" <srimu...@yahoo.com>, "praty...@gmail.com" <praty...@gmail.com>, "aabha...@gmail.com" <aabha...@gmail.com>, "abhaya_m...@yahoo.com" <abhaya_m...@yahoo.com>, "adik...@gmail.com" <adik...@gmail.com>, "alexandre...@yahoo.ca" <alexandre...@yahoo.ca>, "alice...@att.net" <alice...@att.net>, "ange...@yahoo.com" <ange...@yahoo.com>, "angin...@yahoo.com" <angin...@yahoo.com>, "ann.tr...@gmail.com" <ann.tr...@gmail.com>, "bhag...@hotmail.com" <bhag...@hotmail.com>, "bhaktat...@yahoo.com" <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>, "bvsa...@gmail.com" <bvsa...@gmail.com>, "cc...@yahoo.com" <cc...@yahoo.com>, "compo...@yahoo.com" <compo...@yahoo.com>, "d...@thewsc.org" <d...@thewsc.org>, "dasd...@aol.com" <dasd...@aol.com>, "deshpa...@yahoo.com" <deshpa...@yahoo.com>, "d...@southwind.net" <d...@southwind.net>, "doro...@dslextreme.com" <doro...@dslextreme.com>, "esw...@sbcglobal.net" <esw...@sbcglobal.net>, "fallenf...@yahoo.com" <fallenf...@yahoo.com>, "fmor...@dharmacentral.com" <fmor...@dharmacentral.com>, "frank-...@hotmail.com" <frank-...@hotmail.com>, "gada...@yahoo.com" <gada...@yahoo.com>, "geno...@working-minds.com" <geno...@working-minds.com>, "gerisch...@yahoo.com" <gerisch...@yahoo.com>, "gregpr...@yahoo.com" <gregpr...@yahoo.com>, "gururagh...@yahoo.com" <gururagh...@yahoo.com>, "guruva...@yahoo.com" <guruva...@yahoo.com>, "hanto...@hotmail.com" <hanto...@hotmail.com>, "harv...@hotmail.com" <harv...@hotmail.com>, "has...@hotmail.com" <has...@hotmail.com>, "hks...@juno.com" <hks...@juno.com>, "hms...@yahoo.com" <hms...@yahoo.com>, "in...@farmeducation.org" <in...@farmeducation.org>, "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>, "jagat...@yahoo.com" <jagat...@yahoo.com>, "james...@email.com" <james...@email.com>, "jeff...@yahoo.com" <jeff...@yahoo.com>, "jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com" <jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com>, "jgc...@yahoo.com" <jgc...@yahoo.com>, "jiva...@yahoo.com" <jiva...@yahoo.com>, "july9...@yahoo.com" <july9...@yahoo.com>, "kamsa...@hotmail.com" <kamsa...@hotmail.com>, "kanha...@hotmail.com" <kanha...@hotmail.com>, "krishna...@yahoo.com" <krishna...@yahoo.com>, "krishn...@hotmail.com" <krishn...@hotmail.com>, "krishn...@gmail.com" <krishn...@gmail.com>, "kumud...@aol.com" <kumud...@aol.com>, "lak...@webtv.net" <lak...@webtv.net>, "lal...@gmail.com" <lal...@gmail.com>, "law...@juno.com" <law...@juno.com>, "madh...@yahoo.com" <madh...@yahoo.com>, "madhu...@gmail.com" <madhu...@gmail.com>, "mahar...@hotmail.com" <mahar...@hotmail.com>, "mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk" <mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk>, "markm...@yahoo.com" <markm...@yahoo.com>, "messenger...@yahoo.com" <messenger...@yahoo.com>, "mgr...@sbcglobal.net" <mgr...@sbcglobal.net>, "mitche...@netzero.net" <mitche...@netzero.net>, "mrs...@hotmail.com" <mrs...@hotmail.com>, "mystiq...@yahoo.com" <mystiq...@yahoo.com>, "nar...@yahoo.com" <nar...@yahoo.com>, "nihar_...@yahoo.com" <nihar_...@yahoo.com>, "nityanan...@gmail.com" <nityanan...@gmail.com>, "nrsimh...@gmail.com" <nrsimh...@gmail.com>, "pan11...@yahoo.com" <pan11...@yahoo.com>, "pari...@btinternet.com" <pari...@btinternet.com>, "pdhed...@yahoo.com" <pdhed...@yahoo.com>, "pg1...@netzero.com" <pg1...@netzero.com>, "pg1...@netzero.net" <pg1...@netzero.net>, "prtha_d...@hotmail.com" <prtha_d...@hotmail.com>, "pss...@juno.com" <pss...@juno.com>, "radhika...@hotmail.com" <radhika...@hotmail.com>, "raghu...@rogers.com" <raghu...@rogers.com>, "ramr...@aol.com" <ramr...@aol.com>, "rbenav...@yahoo.es" <rbenav...@yahoo.es>, "rc...@earthlink.net" <rc...@earthlink.net>, "roupamanja...@gmail.com" <roupamanja...@gmail.com>, "royalt...@yahoo.com" <royalt...@yahoo.com>, "royric...@yahoo.com" <royric...@yahoo.com>, "sagun...@yahoo.de" <sagun...@yahoo.de>, "she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com" <she_ra_ven...@yahoo.com>, "shyama...@disciples.com" <shyama...@disciples.com>, "spirit...@msn.com" <spirit...@msn.com>, "spro...@yahoo.com" <spro...@yahoo.com>, "stevie...@gmail.com" <stevie...@gmail.com>, "sunand...@hotmail.com" <sunand...@hotmail.com>, "sunil...@yahoo.com" <sunil...@yahoo.com>, "tamoha...@yahoo.ca" <tamoha...@yahoo.ca>, "taru...@yahoo.com" <taru...@yahoo.com>, "thepare...@yahoo.com" <thepare...@yahoo.com>, "trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk" <trancendent...@hotmail.co.uk>, "trini...@aol.com" <trini...@aol.com> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 1:47 AM Hoping this meets you well and Happy in Krsna Consciousness Your eternal friend and servant Gauridasa Pandita Dasa BHAKTI SHAKTI Please check out my songs! 'SWAMI SONG' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9QBmgVc-mY  'All Attractive Lord' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fIQE4Rc5Z8 'Mantra Fusion' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYaWNcRELgk 'Going Home' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_39zi_x1EOE 'Its Krsna' :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZPdL8CHodI  'SF Rathayatra 2010' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvca-kBLOXA&feature=youtube_gdata_player \o/ HariboL \o/ Chant and be Happy! On May 15, 2009, at 11:35 PM, "Ameyatma das (ACBSP)" <amey...@gmail.com> wrote: [Note:  every once in a while (1-2 weeks) my gmail account wont let me send email....    i've written some replies to emails in past 3-4 days, and they don't send,   i  don't have time to fiddle, so forget those,   i had to reset my password 'again',  so this one should send] Tamala Krsna: Can a Christian in this age, without a spiritual master, but by reading the Bible and following Jesus's words, reach the... Prabhupada: When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without? As soon as you read Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means you are following spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without spiritual master? Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living spiritual master. Prabhupada: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is eternal. Spiritual master is eternal. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible," when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear? Madhudvisa: I mean like we couldn't understand the teachings of the Bhagavad-gita without your help, without your presentation. [ Ameyatma:   Prabhupad's presentation is there in his Purports -  I can repeat BG because i have heard (read) from a Pure Devotee, Representative of Krsna. So can the new bhakta.  He can hear (read) from Prabhupad's Gita AS IT IS by ACBSP just the same way I - we - have.  Prabhupad did not sit down next to me and explain what he wrote.  I never got hardly any chance at all to ask Prabhupad a question,  many of my Godbrothers never had any chance.  We HEARD (READ) Prabhupad's explanations from his purports, and his purports are still here] Prabhupada: Similarly, you have to understand Bible with the help of the priest in the church. [ Ameyatma  -  and this is exactly all most of Prabhupad's disciples had,    we had question about his books,  at most we asked the other brahmans at the temple -  which is going on today at the end of ever Srmn Bhgvtm class all over the world.  Devotees ask other devotees for clarification.   This  is the process SP set up and taught us to follow, and it is as good today as it was in the mid 1970's ] Madhudvisa: Yes. But is he receiving a good interpretation from his disciplic succession or his bishop? Because there seems to be some kind of a discrepancy in the interpretation of the Bible. There's many different sects of Christianity that interpret the Bible in different ways. Prabhupada: Of course, there cannot be any interpretation in the Bible. [ameyatma - there can NOT be ANY Interpretation of SP's books - then the authority of SPrabhupad' teachings is lost] Prabhupad -   Then there is no authority of Bible. If you interpret something... Just like "Call a spade a spade." So if you call something else, that is a different thing. He's not spiritual master. Just like this is watch. Everybody has called it watch, and if I call it spectacle, then what is the value of my being spiritual master? I'm misleading. (laughter) It is watch, that I must say. So when there is misinterpretation, he's not a bona fide spiritual master. He's not spiritual master, what is called a bona fide. If I want to teach you how to see this watch, I can say that "This is called watch and this is called hand and this is called time indication; this is, this called...," so that is nice. And if I say that "Everybody says it is watch. I say it is spectacle," then what kind of a spiritual master I am? Reject him immediately. That intelligence you must have, who is a pseudo spiritual master or real spiritual master. Otherwise you'll be cheated. And that is being done. Everyone is interpreting in his own way. The Bhagavad-gita, there are thousands of editions, and they have tried to interpret in their own way, all nonsense. They should be all thrown away. Simply you have to read Bhagavad-gita AS IT IS. Then you'll understand. There is no question of interpretation. [Ameyatma:   Krsna sent his pure representative, Srila Prabhupad, and he gave us Gita AS IT IS,  his Purports,  that is Srila Prabhupad, the ACHARYA, explaining to us what Krsna has taught.  We cannot interpret what SP gave us,    then his authority becomes lost,   then his teachings become spoiled.  Guru, Prabhupad, is there,  he is explaining to us,   his purports,   that is all I and many of us have ever had,    that is sufficient,   and they are still available to all - new and old alike.] SP:  Then the authority is gone. As soon as you interpret, then there is no authority. Lawbook. Do you mean to say in the court if you say before the judge, "My dear lord, I interpret this passage in this way," will it be accepted? The judge will at once say, "Who are you to interpret? You have no right." Then what is the authority of this lawbook if everyone comes, "I interpret in this way"? [Ameyatma - SP's example is perfect..  ] SP    And interpretation when required? When a thing is not understood. If I say, "It is watch," and everyone understands that "This is watch, yes," then where is the opportunity of interpreting that this is spectacle? If anyone can understand the clear passage... Just like in the Bible, "God said, ‘Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Where is the question of interpretation? Yes, God created. You cannot create. Where is the opportunity of interpretation? So unnecessary interpretation is not required and that is not bona fide, and those who are interpreting unnecessarily, they should be rejected immediately. Immediately, without any consideration. God said, "Let there be creation." So there was creation. Simple thing. Where is the question of interpretation? What can be the interpretation here? Suggest that this can be interpretation. Am I right? In the beginning of the Bible it is said like that? "God said, ‘Let there be creation,' and there was creation. So what is your interpretation? Tell me what is your interpretation. Is there any possibility of interpretation? Can any one of you suggest? Then where is the opportunity of interpretation? [Ameyatma :   SPrabhupad's Divine Purports are NOT interpretation of what he thinks Krsna said.  It is the EXPLANATION by Krsna's Pure Representative for our age.  There is no question of interpreting,   we simply have to accept what the pure representative has said,  if we need some help understanding, we inquire from other brahman's and senior devotees -  just as it was in ISKCON from the day i sat foot in the SP's ashrams] SP          One can explain. That is different thing, but the fact that God created, that will remain. That you cannot change. Now, how that creative process took place, that is explained in Bhagavatam: First of all, there was sky, then there was sound, then there was this, that. This is the process of creation, that is another thing. But the fact, the primary fact that God created, that will remain at any circumstances. Not the rascal scientist says, "Oh, there was a chunk and it is split up, and there was these planets. Perhaps this and likely this," all this nonsense. They'll simply interpret, "likely," "perhaps." That is not science -- "likely," "perhaps." Why perhaps? Here is clear statement, "God created." That's all. Finish. Yes. >>> Ref. VedaBase => Lecture -- Seattle, October 2, 1968 Greg Jay wrote: PAMHO AGTSP On May 15, 2009, at 4:33 PM, Srimukunda dasa wrote: Please explain again the difference between the person Prabhupada and the book Prabhupada? The difference is very, very simple. When we read the book Prabhupada we think we understand what to do, however we must confirm that by taking the advise of the living person Prabhupada. We see that many people have book knowledge but yet they all disagree as to how to understand correctly that book knowledge. This is because they mistake their own interpretation of the book knowledge with the actual understanding according to their sampradaya. Thus we confirm our understanding by guru, sadhu and sastra. ys GKD

[larry freeman p]

of course we ALL DO need a 'living' 'guru': a living teacher, who can help us comprehend the 'truth';

what we do NOT want are teachers who LIE about their position: ie: phony gurus.

---

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:00:25 -0700
From: pdhed...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: New ~ 'The Swami Song' my offering for Vyasapuja ~
To: amey...@gmail.com; gaur...@aol.com; markm...@yahoo.com
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[mark mclaughlin]

Hare Krsna Praghosa das. As you said..

"But I believe what he is TRYING to express is that one needs to approach Srila Prabhupada both DIRECTLY through his books and also, through his "living disciples" who exemplify his simple instructions and teach others to likewise understand and embrace them and hold each "next generation" of such disciples to the same standard application of Lord Chaitanya's teachings that he gave from the very beginning."

So, here is the crux.  If we refer to your other statement...

"My simple point was that no one needs to be "tutored" on the actual "purports" to BG - since Srila Prabhupada is THE TUTOR and he accomplishes this by means of HIS purports"

We see a need for rectification in order to avoid a charge of contradiction. First.  Depending on the guna and karma of an individual, they may not understand the purports without a person who is a qualified teacher to tutor them.  If one can understand the purports directly, then that is the person who IS qualified to be a teacher or "tutor" in the sense of brahminical preceptor/instructor. Second, regardless of one's varna (guna and karma) one may succeed in being the living example you refer to and this is a form of teaching, although not in the same vein as brahminical instructor of philosophy. If a person first approaches the movement as teen or adult, classically educated, he may be able to simply engage in basic temple sankirtan activities and read purports in order to gain his education of Gaudiya philosophy.  If such a person were interested in teaching younger people, or examining other already educated teens/adults who come later, that person would be required to approach a qualified brhamana teacher for examination.  If the exams/tests are passed, he receives a degree and becomes a qualified Siksa instructor.  That person would theoretically be capable of following textbooks and making lesson plans to gradually give classic education to elementary/junior/high school age persons, as well as examining anyone who gets to the point of completing review of Bhaktivedanta purports, whether they were born in the movement, or joined as per the above example. A sudra or agriculturalist/merchant or martial artist will likely not fit this category of teacher.  BUT,  by being a perfect living example within his varna, he is also considered to be dispensing Siksa, as our Gaudiya philosophy is that if one follows the rules and regulations of their varna, while engaging in the facets of daily Sankirtana COMMON TO ALL, they get the perfection by the end of their lifetime, if not sooner.  Krsna Prema. So, there is a need for brahminically qualified Siksa Gurus, as well as living examples in each varna, who are as good as a Siksa Guru, as according to our philosophy, although one may only be sudra, if he is strictly following, he is as good as a brahmana, though perhaps not qualified to act as brahmana. So everyone who comes to the movement is a disciple of those who came before them, befriends them and guides them, naturally. But the rule is.  Formal Diksa initiation is offered by the local TP to any qualified candidate and after the ceremony, the new Bhakta is considered first and foremost an initiated disciple of HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.  We can consider this an eduactional failsafe, which serves to inform and imbue each new disciple with the ability to demand their teachers exemplify and teach according to Srila Prabhupada's instructions, and with this standard failsafe, there can never be doubt or obscuration of this fact that will stand basic scrutiny. Even though that new person may have techinically been initiatied into spiritual awareness after hearing the Maha Mantra from YOU, and awakened to the first stage of aham brahmasmi from YOU, and continue to be under your wing for years and years, he is only your Siksa disciple if he is first and foremost a Diksa disciple of Srila Prabhupada, and thus your Siksa instruction is always held to account under the auspices of Srila Prabhupada's Siksa paradigm. If a person cannot agree with me on the above, I consider them not yet finding the proper Gaudiya conclusion, and thus apa-Sampradaya and only representing their own limited understanding, and thus MIS-REPRESENTING Srila Prabhupada.  Whether maliciously or innocently is another thing, and that consideration will dictate the details of how I relate to them. All glories to Srila Prabhupada Happy Janmasthami ys B.Mark

[july9th]

Hare Krishna B.Mark;

You have expressed yourself more eloquently than I was able to when we
were discussing NOI5.

"A neophyte Vaiṣṇava or a Vaiṣṇava situated on the intermediate
platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the
same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance
very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient
guidance."
NoI: verse 5

Hence you have described in your post what I was trying to explain as
my understanding of the above quote and what Śrīla Prabhupāda refers
to therein.

...."So everyone who comes to the movement is a disciple of those who
came before them, befriends them and guides them, naturally." ....

Appreciated, sorry if I caused you some offense at the time.

All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda
& Happy Janmasthami to all.

> --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Patrick Hedemark <pdhedem...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> From: Patrick Hedemark <pdhedem...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: New ~ 'The Swami Song' my offering for Vyasapuja ~
> To: "ameya...@gmail.com" <ameya...@gmail.com>, "Gauridasa Pandita" <gauri...@aol.com>, "mark mclaughlin" <markmac...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Greg Jay" <jay.g...@gmail.com>, "Srimukunda dasa" <srimuku...@yahoo.com>, "pratyat...@gmail.com" <pratyat...@gmail.com>, "aabhaba...@gmail.com" <aabhaba...@gmail.com>, "abhaya_mudra2...@yahoo.com" <abhaya_mudra2...@yahoo.com>, "adiku...@gmail.com" <adiku...@gmail.com>, "alexandre_jablon...@yahoo.ca" <alexandre_jablon...@yahoo.ca>, "alice.b...@att.net" <alice.b...@att.net>, "angel1...@yahoo.com" <angel1...@yahoo.com>, "angini1...@yahoo.com" <angini1...@yahoo.com>, "ann.trema...@gmail.com" <ann.trema...@gmail.com>, "bhagwa...@hotmail.com" <bhagwa...@hotmail.com>, "bhaktatrave...@yahoo.com" <bhaktatrave...@yahoo.com>, "bvsaj...@gmail.com" <bvsaj...@gmail.com>, "cc...@yahoo.com" <cc...@yahoo.com>, "compostm...@yahoo.com" <compostm...@yahoo.com>, "d...@thewsc.org" <d...@thewsc.org>, "dasdas...@aol.com" <dasdas...@aol.com>, "deshpande...@yahoo.com" <deshpande...@yahoo.com>, "d...@southwind.net" <d...@southwind.net>, "dorot...@dslextreme.com"
>  <dorot...@dslextreme.com>, "esw...@sbcglobal.net" <esw...@sbcglobal.net>, "fallenforest...@yahoo.com" <fallenforest...@yahoo.com>, "fmora...@dharmacentral.com" <fmora...@dharmacentral.com>, "frank-n-st...@hotmail.com" <frank-n-st...@hotmail.com>, "gadaid...@yahoo.com" <gadaid...@yahoo.com>, "genord...@working-minds.com" <genord...@working-minds.com>, "gerischaub2...@yahoo.com" <gerischaub2...@yahoo.com>, "gregpradyu...@yahoo.com" <gregpradyu...@yahoo.com>, "gururaghavendr...@yahoo.com" <gururaghavendr...@yahoo.com>, "guruvagmi...@yahoo.com" <guruvagmi...@yahoo.com>, "hantonj...@hotmail.com" <hantonj...@hotmail.com>, "harvey...@hotmail.com" <harvey...@hotmail.com>, "hast...@hotmail.com" <hast...@hotmail.com>, "hks...@juno.com" <hks...@juno.com>, "hmst...@yahoo.com" <hmst...@yahoo.com>, "i...@farmeducation.org" <i...@farmeducation.org>, "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>, "jagatka...@yahoo.com" <jagatka...@yahoo.com>,
>  "jamesac...@email.com" <jamesac...@email.com>, "jeffdu...@yahoo.com" <jeffdu...@yahoo.com>, "jfedorow...@oxfordlaw.com" <jfedorow...@oxfordlaw.com>, "jgc...@yahoo.com" <jgc...@yahoo.com>, "jivadh...@yahoo.com" <jivadh...@yahoo.com>, "july9th...@yahoo.com" <july9th...@yahoo.com>, "kamsaha...@hotmail.com" <kamsaha...@hotmail.com>, "kanhaiya...@hotmail.com" <kanhaiya...@hotmail.com>, "krishnadasbe...@yahoo.com" <krishnadasbe...@yahoo.com>, "krishnaisl...@hotmail.com" <krishnaisl...@hotmail.com>, "krishnapa...@gmail.com" <krishnapa...@gmail.com>, "kumudav...@aol.com" <kumudav...@aol.com>, "laks...@webtv.net" <laks...@webtv.net>, "lal...@gmail.com" <lal...@gmail.com>, "lawh...@juno.com" <lawh...@juno.com>, "madhav...@yahoo.com" <madhav...@yahoo.com>, "madhuhad...@gmail.com" <madhuhad...@gmail.com>, "maharaj_...@hotmail.com" <maharaj_...@hotmail.com>, "mahesh_ag...@yahoo.co.uk" <mahesh_ag...@yahoo.co.uk>, "messenger_only2...@yahoo.com"
>  <messenger_only2...@yahoo.com>, "mgre...@sbcglobal.net" <mgre...@sbcglobal.net>, "mitchelang...@netzero.net" <mitchelang...@netzero.net>, "mrsk...@hotmail.com" <mrsk...@hotmail.com>, "mystique_1...@yahoo.com" <mystique_1...@yahoo.com>, "naro...@yahoo.com" <naro...@yahoo.com>, "nihar_sing...@yahoo.com" <nihar_sing...@yahoo.com>, "nityanandaram...@gmail.com" <nityanandaram...@gmail.com>, "nrsimhana...@gmail.com" <nrsimhana...@gmail.com>, "pan11112...@yahoo.com" <pan11112...@yahoo.com>, "parij...@btinternet.com" <parij...@btinternet.com>, "pg1...@netzero.com" <pg1...@netzero.com>, "pg1...@netzero.net" <pg1...@netzero.net>, "prtha_devi_d...@hotmail.com" <prtha_devi_d...@hotmail.com>, "pss...@juno.com" <pss...@juno.com>, "radhikagard...@hotmail.com" <radhikagard...@hotmail.com>, "raghumis...@rogers.com" <raghumis...@rogers.com>, "ramra...@aol.com" <ramra...@aol.com>, "rbenavent1...@yahoo.es" <rbenavent1...@yahoo.es>, "rc...@earthlink.net"
>  <rc...@earthlink.net>, "roupamanjaridevid...@gmail.com" <roupamanjaridevid...@gmail.com>, "royaltyoa...@yahoo.com" <royaltyoa...@yahoo.com>, "royrichar...@yahoo.com" <royrichar...@yahoo.com>, "sagunad...@yahoo.de" <sagunad...@yahoo.de>, "she_ra_venus_merm...@yahoo.com" <she_ra_venus_merm...@yahoo.com>, "shyamasund...@disciples.com" <shyamasund...@disciples.com>, "spiritpass...@msn.com" <spiritpass...@msn.com>, "sprout...@yahoo.com" <sprout...@yahoo.com>, "steviedrea...@gmail.com" <steviedrea...@gmail.com>, "sunandana...@hotmail.com" <sunandana...@hotmail.com>, "sunilma...@yahoo.com" <sunilma...@yahoo.com>, "tamoharad...@yahoo.ca" <tamoharad...@yahoo.ca>, "tarun...@yahoo.com" <tarun...@yahoo.com>, "theparentsis...@yahoo.com" <theparentsis...@yahoo.com>, "trancendentaltechnol...@hotmail.co.uk" <trancendentaltechnol...@hotmail.co.uk>, "trinity...@aol.com" <trinity...@aol.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 1:00 PM
>
> No worries prabhu.
>  
> I was merely noting your willingness to "tutor" myself or GKD and not sure if that was expressed in the same vein.
>  
> My simple point was that no one needs to be "tutored" on the actual "purports" to BG - since Srila Prabhupada is THE TUTOR and he accomplishes this by means of HIS purports or as he referred to them in a letter in 1975 as "His Devotional Ecstacies".
>  

> In the Perfection of Yoga - the book I ...
>
> read more »

[Patrick Hedemark]

Hello Mark PAMHO AGTSP Hare Krsna There is no contradiction at all in my statement.  Niether are you offering true dissent to my comments. You are merely elaborating upon my points.  That is fine. But helping a devotee to find his most effective position within the service to Lord Krsna (varna &ashrama) is simply the most logical and natural progressive step.  In and of itself however it is not directly connected with one's diksa in Krsna Consciousness and is nowhere even mentioned as such. In fact - quite the opposite - one  of the important preliminary qualifications affirmed by Srila Prabhupada himself in CC Madhya-Lila 24 -330 is that the "initiate" renounces the bodily conception of life. It is for this reason in fact that one receives a spiritual name upon being accepted by the spiritual Master as disciple. You write: ".First.  Depending on the guna and karma of an individual, they may not understand the purports without a person who is a qualified teacher to tutor them" The purports of Srila Prabhupada are all self evident and require no "tutor" whatsoever.  They are all as simple and brilliant as the sun and yours or anyone's professed assessment that they may require additional "illumination" - is tantamount to insisting that the Mid-Day Sun needs the additional illumination of the glow-worm's twinkle in order to assist one who is closing his eyes. Guna and Karma - and their influence - are not a factor on one's receiving the mercy of the Pure Devotee.  One need no "qualification" to receive this other than the causeless mercy of Lord Krsna. And if one is so fortunate - it is their sincerity of purpose only that qualifies them to now take up the chanting of the Holy Names as their life and soul - and to willingly try to render some practical service to this spiritual society for Krsna Consciousness.  How they can "practically" do this will naturally be helped greatly if they can do what comes most naturally to them. Likewise if they do so from the most natural "ashrama".  But initiation into the chanting of Hare Krsna is not dependent upon anything other than our sincerity to receive it and to spend the balance of our life saying "thank you" - with our actions in the service of Krsna and Guru. Srila Prabhupada made doing all of this very simple. Primarily because it is. The two statements you find "contradictory" are merely "complimentary". The devotee is "tutored" by every word of Srila Prabhupada. That "tutorial" gives simple practical guidance in every aspect of Krsna Consciousness and how to effectively infiltrate the world with it.  That one man naturally leads and others naturally follow - is not the equivalent of tutoring. It is mutual service to the actual tutor - the revealer of Bhagavad Gita - Srila Prabhupada. As for the rest on Guru - I think my views on that subject are perfectly clear. We don't need "tutoring" in the Divine Ecstacies of Srila Prabhpada. We do need however to muster the sincerity to embrace and act upon them. To do this the example and association of those have and are  doing this is not only invaluable but necessary. Have a wonderful Janmastami as well.  All Glories To Srila Prabhupada and Sri Vyasa Puja Praghosa Das

[parijata]

Yes indeed! Refer Srila Bhaktivinode's words:

 

"He reasons ill who tells that Vaisnavas die
               When thou art living still in sound!
            The Vaisnavas die to live, and living try
                 To spread the holy name around!"