Urmila dd: It is perfectly legitimate for us ISKCON members to speak out

[rammohan das]

HG Urmila devi dasi, Feb 10 2014 (facebook discussion - "The GBC Does Not Vote In Gurus"): Prabhu, if the GBC are misunderstanding guru tattva by their unauthorized authorization process, it is perfectly legitimate for us ISKCON members to say so. A mandated bureaucratic process is far, far different from voluntarily getting blessings. I do not like those who imagine the GBC to have ill motives. We do have a responsibility as ISKCON members to say something in the appropriate forum, and in an appropriate way, when resolutions and laws are opposed to sadhu-sastra-guru.

The GBC have a voting system! They have a voting system! If a GBC member says they don't, one really, really, really has to wonder..... clearly at least some of them know that a voting system is bogus. So, they deny that they are doing what they are doing.
First level of voting is local--the candidate has to get a majority vote of a local council. Second level of voting is by the whole GBC body via email. They only collect "no" votes--silence is a "yes" vote. In some cases there will be a third level of voting in person at the GBC meeting. How anyone can say this is not voting is beyond the dictionary definition and beyond logic.

It is unfortunate that many devotees, including many leaders, think that the choices are unsastric bureaucracy or anarchy. Those of us schooled in organizational leadership and management know that there are MANY organizational forms and structures besides those two. Accusing those opposed to bureaucracy (which would include Srila Prabhupada!) of wanting anarchy is simply ignorance at best.

If you want to know whether or not the GBC rules are a voting system, why not just read the rules yourself and see? It's pretty obvious. And, if you want to say that a voting system is sastric, why not research it and see what sadhu-sastra-guru have to say about voting systems to decide who is a bona fide guru?

Perhaps you recall the reason I left the SP disciples' conference....

With all due respect, if we want to research sadhu-sastra-guru on how someone is known as a bona fide guru--what is the criteria and what is not the criteria--we read and study the sastra, the commentaries of the acaryas, the words of our own guru and guru parampara, and study the lives of the acaryas both in our line and in other bona fide lines for millennia. If we find solid evidence which states that voting procedures of institutional bodies are necessary for knowing whether or not someone is a bona fide guru, then we know that such procedures are correct according to sadhu-sastra-guru.

We do NOT know simply by having discussions among ourselves without thorough reference to sadhu-sastra-guru. "The Krishna Consciousness Movement is Authorized." Why? Because on matters of siddhanta, which includes guru-tattva, we should be firmly and unequivocally grounded in sadhu-sastra-guru, not our own personal opinions or so-called practical considerations and flawed logic.

[Pratyatosa]

Just see! Even members of the GBC's own Sastric Advisory Committee (SAC) are beginning to speak out about the fact that the GBC's voted-in multiple "guru" system is bogus. But what alternative does the GBC have? The only ones that I can think of are Srila Prabhupada's ingenious ritvik system of initiations or complete chaos!

Prabhupada was clearly against having more than one guru within ISKCON because it creates factions, which he was also against:

I have heard that there is some worship of yourself by the other devotees. Of course it is proper to offer obeisances to a Vaisnava, but not in the presence of the spiritual master. After the departure of the spiritual master it will come to that stage, but now wait. Otherwise it will create factions. (SPL to Hansadutta dasa, October 1, 1974)

And yet, certain self-motivated rascals actually have the audacity to use the above as evidence to try to legitimatize the GBC's concocted, ever-changing multiple guru system!

Ys, Ptd

[Mellanie L Nagel]

On 2/10/14 2:49 PM, Pratyatosa wrote:

Prabhupada was clearly against having more than one guru within ISKCON because it creates factions, which he was also against:

I have heard that there is some worship of yourself by the other devotees. Of course it is proper to offer obeisances to a Vaisnava, but not in the presence of the spiritual master. After the departure of the spiritual master it will come to that stage, but now wait. Otherwise it will create factions. (SPL to Hansadutta dasa, October 1, 1974)

This letter was not a warning against having more then one guru, he was addressing initiating in the presence of one's spiritual master. As he himself said, "After the departure of the spiritual master, it will come to that stage..."

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Mother Malati Prabhu, Srila Prabhupada also said, "I shall never die. I will live forever in my books!"

This letter was obviously just a delaying tactic. A trick to get one of his overly ambitious disciples to continue to engage in devotional service just a little while longer so that Prabhupada could get as many books published as possible, and so that he could open as many temples as possible. For Prabhupada, it was like a juggling act: Trying to keep some of these types of disciples from blooping or from being more trouble than they were worth,

Ys, Ptd

[Mario Pineda]

Hare Krishna. I saw a few weeks ago documents that show that Srila Prabhupada drafted the direction of management at least as early as 1938. He revised it in 1942 and 1953 and he ordered it be implemented in ISKCON in 1970. Of course, the GBC did not follow this order, but some of them locked Srila Prabhupada in a room in Los Angeles and tried to take over the movement, around the time (1974) when Srila Prabhupada had AGAIN asked that the DOM be followed to manage ISKCON.

Then, Srila Prabhupada wanted ALL his leading men to be by his bed side in Vrnadavana and this order was NOT followed also. Then he wanted to go around Govardan Hill, and this ordered was also not followed. At this time, Srila Prabhupada rightly equated the "disciples" to Ravana!!

Then they finished the poisoning and in March of 1978, the very same mad elephant offense poisoners and their friends, sat on Srila Prabhupada's seat and declared themselves to be "diksa" gurus to be worshiped as Good as Krishna!!! Lol!! Kritanananda dasa left the side of Srila Prabhupada to "die alone," because he did not want to loose time and be ahead of the pack "initiating" devotees in USA. Tamal Krishna was very worried about this, so he was telling the other guru aparadhis, to hurry up, so Kirtanananda may not have too much of a lead. Of course we know, that these two offenders and later many of the rest, would promote themselves to be the "only" true "diksa' guru of ISKCON.

These false "diksa" gurus, their supporters and followers, have absolutely no heart and no brains. Some are most grossly violent people that will kill if need be to continue their worship. This is the characteristic of a veda vata rata, a racal self made "God."

Srila PRabhupada ki jai!

Mahatma dasa 

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Pratyatosa wrote:

Dear Mother Malati Prabhu, Srila Prabhupada also said, "I shall never die. I will live forever in my books!"

This letter was obviously just a delaying tactic. A trick to get one of his overly ambitious disciples to continue to engage in devotional service just a little while longer so that Prabhupada could get as many books published as possible, and so that he could open as many temples as possible. For Prabhupada, it was like a juggling act: Trying to keep some of these types of disciples from blooping or from being more trouble than they were worth,

Ys, Ptd

On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:56:37 PM UTC-5, Malati Devi Dasi wrote:

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[Pratyatosa]

Certain rascal disciples were holding Srila Prabhupada hostage in Los Angeles in 1970, not 1974. But he outsmarted them by personally phoning temple presidents from all over the country and requesting them to come to LA because it was an emergency. (I was sitting right next to the phone at ISKCON Detroit when it rang.) It was then that he formed the GBC and published his Direction of Management.

Also, there is no proof that any of Prabhupada's disciples poisoned him. Better to err on the side of caution than to risk committing a very great offense. (See: <http://pratyatosa.com/?P=2v>.)

Ys, Ptd

[Mario Pineda]

Thanks Pratyatosa dasa prabhu. Yes. It was Bhagavan dasa who traveled to L.A to "rescue" Srila Prahupada as I understand it. There is a need to interview and record those involved in this violent take over attempt, to testify and apologize to Srila Prabhupada and to the true Prabhupadanugas about it. Two have died, but still we have 4 that are available.  Srila Prabhupada j ki jai!

Mahatma dasa

[Ken McLEOD]

In one sense, all genuine spiritual teachers are anarchists. Put simply an anarchist is someone who want's to live in a world without rulers, not without rules. 
Srila Prabhupada gave us all the rules and regulations that we need to follow, and he has very clearly stated that, "You Follow One Acarya Like The Christians They Follow Christ (20/5/75 Melbourne) Srila Prabhupada also stated that, " In the age of Kali, the greatest common formula of sacrifice is the sankirtana-yajna (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.17.33) Also, "The process for this Kali-yuga is >>very simple<< one need only chant the Hare Krsna Maha-mantra" (Teachings of Lord Kapila son of Devahuti)
If the process is simple, and with all the rules in place, then why has the application become so difficult, with hundreds of voted in gurus?
A system which sees a small section of the Society enjoy extrordinary amounts of wealth and power, whilst the rest of the Society are to an extent percieved as peasants, and if those peasants express the pejorative they are quickly derided and pushed out.
Sounds awfully like a ruling class distinction system !
Srila Prabhupada states in the first Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam that, "wealth must be distributed equally". This is hardly the case within ISKCON, only those at the top have access to wealth and power.
 
THE GREATER THE CONCENTRATION OF WEALTH THE GREATER THE POWER !
 
 
 
 
 
 

---

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 07:45:41 -0800
From: raine...@gmail.com
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Urmila dd: It is perfectly legitimate for us ISKCON members to speak out

HG Urmila devi dasi, Feb 10 2014 (facebook discussion - "The GBC Does Not Vote In Gurus"): Prabhu, if the GBC are misunderstanding guru tattva by their unauthorized authorization process, it is perfectly legitimate for us ISKCON members to say so. A mandated bureaucratic process is far, far different from voluntarily getting blessings. I do not like those who imagine the GBC to have ill motives. We do have a responsibility as ISKCON members to say something in the appropriate forum, and in an appropriate way, whend teachers n resolutions and laws are opposed to sadhu-sastra-guru.

The GBC have a voting system! They have a voting system! If a GBC member says they don't, one really, really, really has to wonder..... clearly at least some of them know that a voting system is bogus. So, they deny that they are doing what they are doing.
First level of voting is local--the candidate has to get a majority vote of a local council. Second level of voting is by the whole GBC body via email. They only collect "no" votes--silence is a "yes" vote. In some cases there will be a third level of voting in person at the GBC meeting. How anyone can say this is not voting is beyond the dictionary definition and beyond logic.

It is unfortunate that many devotees, including many leaders, think that the choices are unsastric bureaucracy or anarchy. Those of us schooled in organizational leadership and management know that there are MANY organizational forms and structures besides those two. Accusing those opposed to bureaucracy (which would include Srila Prabhupada!) of wanting anarchy is simply ignorance at best.

If you want to know whether or not the GBC rules are a voting system, why not just read the rules yourself and see? It's pretty obvious. And, if you want to say that a voting system is sastric, why not research it and see what sadhu-sastra-guru have to say about voting systems to decide who is a bona fide guru?

Perhaps you recall the reason I left the SP disciples' conference....

With all due respect, if we want to research sadhu-sastra-guru on how someone is known as a bona fide guru--what is the criteria and what is not the criteria--we read and study the sastra, the commentaries of the acaryas, the words of our own guru and guru parampara, and study the lives of the acaryas both in our line and in other bona fide lines for millennia. If we find solid evidence which states that voting procedures of institutional bodies are necessary for knowing whether or not someone is a bona fide guru, then we know that such procedures are correct according to sadhu-sastra-guru.

We do NOT know simply by having discussions among ourselves without thorough reference to sadhu-sastra-guru. "The Krishna Consciousness Movement is Authorized." Why? Because on matters of siddhanta, which includes guru-tattva, we should be firmly and unequivocally grounded in sadhu-sastra-guru, not our own personal opinions or so-called practical considerations and flawed logic.

[Nori Muster]

that is profound

the less equality, the higher the pedestal . . . . 

the higher the pedestal, the more power corrupts

[Nori Muster]

Wow, that really happened and four of them are still around?

You open a few closets and there are the skeletons: rattle rattle rattle.

Do these individuals have a long list of ongoing abuses after the 1970 incident? If so, it would be more difficult for them to come forward.

However, if they stopped their offending, let's find them and ask them to apologize. We are talking about forty-four years ago. Maybe they are ready to come clean.

[Pratyatosa]

There were only 4 in the first place: Brahmananda, Gargamuni, Visnujana, and Subal. Srila Prabhupada said that their only hope was to take sannyasa, and to travel and preach. All 4 agreed to take sannyasa.

So they left LA, traveled around a bit, and then ended up at New Vrindaban when there was a festival. Many guests were there, including us from ISKCON Detroit.

At that time, these same 4 troublemakers caused even more trouble by preaching that, "Prabhupada is God." Bhagavan called Prabhupada and told him what they were saying. Prabhupada was so angry that he immediately kicked all 4 of them out of ISKCON. Bhagavan took them to Detroit, where they left most of their personal belongings in the Detroit temple attic.

As far as I know, they then headed toward Florida on foot wearing their sannyasi dress.

Ys, Ptd

[Mellanie L Nagel]

Hare Krishna: It seems there may be receivers who have not been keeping
abreast of ISKCON news since the '70's?
The apologies happened a long long time ago, for those of you who are
just now getting wind of this and have suggest that these four be
tracked down and apologize. Most devotees know that Vishnujana Swami
died during SP's time, Subal is not longer part of the movement since
decades (has his own unrelated thing in Hawaii), Brahmananda has lived
in Vrindavan for eons, Gargamuni as well although he may be in the
states again. Skeletons in the closet generally refer to something
'hidden' that becomes exposed. This incident was never 'hidden,' and was
directly dealt with by SP. yrs, malati dd

On 2/11/14 9:56 AM, Pratyatosa wrote:
> There were only 4 in the first place: Brahmananda, Gargamuni,
> Visnujana, and Subal. Srila Prabhupada said that their only hope was
> to take sannyasa, and to travel and preach. All 4 agreed to take sannyasa.
>
> So they left LA, traveled around a bit, and then ended up at New
> Vrindaban when there was a festival. Many guests were there, including
> us from ISKCON Detroit.
>
> At that time, these same 4 troublemakers caused even more trouble by
> preaching that, "Prabhupada is God." Bhagavan called Prabhupada and
> told him what they were saying. Prabhupada was so angry that he
> immediately kicked all 4 of them out of ISKCON. Bhagavan took them to
> Detroit, where they left most of their personal belongings in the
> Detroit temple attic.
>
> As far as I know, they then headed toward Florida on foot wearing
> their sannyasi dress.

Someone replied:>>>>Wow, that really happened and four of them are still

[Nori Muster]

Thanks Malati. 

If everything is buttoned up and ready to go, how come you are listed as one of the perpetrators on this list:

Iskcons self-appointed bogus gurus, not authorized by Srila Prabhupada

http://www.harekrsna.org/guru-photos.htm

It does not seem fair.

Nori

[Nori Muster]

On Feb 11, 2014, at 7:56 AM, Pratyatosa wrote:

Brahmananda, Gargamuni, Visnujana, and Subal

Hmmm. Interesting. Brahmananda had a brother, can't remember his name.

Not sure who Gargamuni is. (Brahm's brother?)

Visnujana, isn't he the man who killed himself (or was murdered) at the Ganges River because he looked at a woman?

Subal. Not sure who that is, but is that the same Subal who end up in Australia with Bhavananda? 

Were their follies just youthful indiscretion, or did they go on to take part in overthrowing the organization?

[Nori Muster]

seriously, it seems like you are carrying a share of the blame you do not deserve
most of us do not even know what happened or who is to blame, so therefore innocent people like you get blamed because you want to make nice

On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Mellanie L Nagel wrote:

>

[Mellanie L Nagel]

On 2/11/14 10:58 AM, Nori Muster wrote:
> . Brahmananda had a brother, can't remember his name.
> Not sure who Gargamuni is. (Brahm's brother?)

Yes, Brahmananda and Garamuni were brothers and were among the first who
stepped forward to tangibly assist Srila Prabhupada, even prior to the
establishment of "ISKCON."

> Visnujana, isn't he the man who killed himself (or was murdered) at
> the Ganges River because he looked at a woman?

He took his own life in the Tribeni at Allabhad. It was his own
misunderstanding of what to do following an incident that occurred
during a Rathyatra that did not involve any gross behavior. He was a
very sincere person and his memory is still revered by those who knew
and loved him. He was not murdered.

> Subal. Not sure who that is, but is that the same Subal who end up in
> Australia with Bhavananda?

You can look him up on the internet: Steve Bohlert.

> Were their follies just youthful indiscretion, or did they go on to
> take part in overthrowing the organization?

They became overcome with bewilderment at the time. When they were sent
away, they continued to preach and many wonderful devotees, who still
remain in service, came to the movement as a result. They came
personally before Srila Prabhupada with remorse and were warmly embraced
by him. It was a classic "Time out."
>
>
>

[Mellanie L Nagel]

You would really have to ask the list maker(s). I personally don't have time to go on everyone of the sites that are available on the internet.

On 2/11/14 11:04 AM, Nori Muster wrote:

[Nori Muster]

Dear Malati - I tried to argue with the person I think made the list that you should not be on the list.

Neither should Jadurani. But I guess from what you say, it does not bother you. You have a good way of looking at it.

Nori

[Nori Muster]

Okay, this is just one instance pulled from forty-plus years of history.
Probably best to let it go unless it led to major repercussions later on.
I had a long correspondence with Steve Bohlert several years ago. Next time I talk to him, maybe I will ask him what that was all about.

[Melanie L Nagel]

Hare Krishna Nori. Thanks for your concern but it's nothing to worry about. Some are on one end of the elephant and have find it difficult to relate to someone on the other end. Anyone can get bewildered at don't moment!  Yrs, Malati dd

Sent from my iPhone

[Mario Pineda]

Hare Krishna. I was told in Alachua, that Acutyananda dasa was also involved in the take over attempt and that Tamal Krishna was a head of it. The other person that can be recorded as to what happened, is Bhagavan dasa, since I understand he was the one that flew from Chicago or the like, to free Srila Prabhupada. So devotees should do this service, (record)  since when we tell about the very many and most violent offenses against Srila Prabhupada, we are not believed. This is significant history and should be well recorded.

In the poison case, we have forensic analysis and a letter from the scientist that performed it advising for a criminal investigation on the case and now we have more hair and nail clippings to analyze. We now also have more whispers in tapes to be forensically analyzed. This is all scientific, so there is no doubt Srila Prabhupada was poisoned. The suspects in the poisoning according to Nityananda dasa's book., "Someone has poisoned me," are Jayapataka dasa, Bhakti cary dasa, Tamal Krishna dasa and Bhavananda dasa.

There is a group of Prabhupadanugas that are determined and working hard, to get to the bottom of the poison issue and other most important issues in regard to the attempt to kill the body and the philosophy of Srila Prabhupada. We are just getting started actually. We now have 21 large temples in India, plus temples in New Zealand, Singapore,  Malasya, etc. We also have small temples or centers numbering hundreds all over the world. Bangalore has the Krishna Land project, which is around 10 times larger (500 million) than the Temple of understanding in Mayapur. Ritivk Prabhupadanugas just bought 80 acres in San Fracisco overlooking part of the bay for 5 million.

Mayapur is a very violent dangerous place for many right now. Threats of death and murder attempts is a  fact of "life" there. Many most violent criminal types, are projected to be buried there, as if they were as good as Krishna gurus!! Millions laugh about this around the world. Jayapataka dasa, Dayaram dasa and Banu Swami met with the leaders from Bangalore (Madhu Pandit dasa, etc)  on August 23, 2013 to discuss for unity. Jayapataka dasa, suggested the ritvik Prabhupadanugas write a paper about it. The response was., we have written several papers saying the same thing and you reject each time. So it has been said already. The DOM is there since 1070 for you to follow, but you have not. The last will and testament, is there also and you also have not followed. The July 9th 1977 legal transcendental order or directive stating that Srila Prabhupada would be the diksa guru (henceforth = from now on and the original question was., for when you are no longer with us) has also not been followed.

So the writing-orders are there from Srila Prabhupada. The misguided siksa gurus and the misguided GBC, only have to read and study these notarized and signed documents and follow them. So our stand is., no need of more papers (Srila Prabhupada's are already here) and no compromise. No need to contact us on the issue unless you agree you have been mistaken and you agree to follow the orders of Srila Prabhupada.

I thought that since Jayapataka dasa had a stroke, which was a near death experience that often times changes peoples perspectives  in life, (it did for me) coupled with the fact that the misguided GBC has serious money issues, is that he wanted to meet with our leadership from Bangalore.  The temple of understanding project has been ripped off big time reliable sources say. Some say., 30 million. Now due to this, it seems to, that they want to talk wit us ritvik Prabhupadanugas.

In any case, we have responded that no need to contact us unless they follow all Srila Prabhupada wants and with no compromise.

Still, may ritvik Prabhupadanugas feel that there should be absolutely NO compromise. We/tehy are looking very closely if our leadership compromises even a little bit of what Srila Prabhupada wanted and if they do, many many ritvik Prabhupadanugas will not follow any compromised deal no matter who does it. There are ritvik Prabhupadanugas that have been battling the misguided self motivated GBCs since before 1977. Even my humble case, I rejected the false gurus and was the first to have ritvik ceremony on may of 1986 in India, the day that Solucan dasa was murdered in Los Anegeles, California. Most of the current rivik Prabhupadanugas did not do the incredible austerities and sacrifices many of us did, nor risked their lives as  we have done. From the start, many of them, have been riding the gravy train of ISKCON from the start. I imagine, they have little or no idea, what it is to land in India with $39.00 and stay there for 9 months as I did in 1986.

So the senior Prabhupadanugas are looking very carefully and suggesting that the opinion of many Prabhupadanugas be considered world wide before any talks or possible "compromises" with the misguided and violent GBCs.

We have no time. There are millions receptive to what Srila Prabhupada really wants all over the world. I ma not going to disclose all here, but we have a huge amount of devotees and general supportive people to attend to, that are already doing incredible service. So we have to attend to them first. Of course, any ISKCON temple managers, trustees, GBCs and general ISKCON devotees are urged and most welcome to dialogue with us in case you have seen the light and are sick and tired of being sick and tired with the violent misguided GBC. We will do all we can to have their temples be returned to Srila Prabhupada and have 3 to 5 trustees be the direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada and all new bhaktas be disciples of Srila Prabhupada too, etc , etc, ALL as Srila Prabhupada wants.

Please. Anyone, please send this email to all ISKCON temples if you see fit and to any other devotees or entities if you can do so. Thanks for your attention!

Sincerely,

Mahatma dasa

[Ron P Conroy]

Malati prabhu , i am curious about the gas rights .

Is the money from that absolutely needed despite the destruction of the ground water . ?  What good is money without good water ?

sd

[Nori Muster]

Okay, just to keep score, people allegedly involved in the 1970 takeover attempt:

Brahmananda

Gargamuni

Visnujana

Subal (Steve Bohlert)

Acutananda

Tamal Krishna (head of the group)

Bhagavan (flew in from Chicago)

re. Mayapur. I have heard it is dangerous.

I agree it would be useless to "compromise" with ISKCON, since "compromise" would mean the big fish eats the little fish.

The big fish being full of control freaks.

[Mellanie L Nagel]

Hare Krishna:

On 2/13/14 8:13 AM, Ron P Conroy wrote:
> Is the money from that absolutely needed despite the destruction of
> the ground water . ? What good is money without good water ?

It is more complicated than $$. That is there, but on the other hand, it
is largely about protection. If we do not sign some kind of lease, we
will not have any rights for protection, underground, surface, air,
water, etc. We are a small core of land 100% surrounded by other land
owners who have signed leases or will sign soon. A responsible lease can
offer us protection that we would not have if we didn't sign. Keep in
mind, there are already operational pads all around our us. Our water
source is not boxed into our acreage. It is connected underground and
otherwise. It is a very very intense thought provoking situation and no
one is taking it lightly. I do not have any official say or vote in the
matter, fyi. Also, by way of information, signing a lease does not
automatically guarantee they will drill on your land. Thank you for
asking.

[Nori Muster]

You could make a difference for the earth like these Catholic sisters! Do the right thing!

Sisters choose nature over riches of natural gas lease

VILLA MARIA, PA.

With 761 acres of mostly wooded property nestled along the Ohio-Pennsylvania state line, the Sisters of the Humility of Mary feel they have been entrusted with a special oasis.

The land encompasses a 250-acre organic farm, grazing land for cattle and sheep, wetlands and shaded open space where members of the community, employees and visitors can relax, walk and pray, all to gain a deeper appreciation of creation.

So when the landmen representing the energy companies approached in 2010, 2011 and 2012 with offers of thousands of dollars per acre for the natural gas rights in the shale formations deep below the surface, the sisters stepped back and asked themselves what the land they have nurtured for nearly 150 years really meant to the community.

What they decided was to firmly tell the landmen, "No."

Never mind that some of the sisters' 80 neighbors had readily signed on, likely bringing industrial-scale natural gas mining that uses the controversial slick water hydraulic fracturing process to the congregation's doorsteps.

read the entire article: http://ncronline.org/blogs/eco-catholic/sisters-choose-nature-over-riches-natural-gas-lease

[Mellanie L Nagel]

On 2/13/14 12:50 PM, Nori Muster wrote:
> You could make a difference for the earth like these Catholic sisters!
> Do the right thing!

Yes, I've posted this and others like it to. Thanks

[Nori Muster]

think how valuable your land could be in the future if it is the only unspoiled land in the state
it is a long term investment

[Pratyatosa]

It's my understanding that those who don't sign up, if they are surrounded by people who do, still get the disadvantages of, for example, possible water contamination, but without any of the advantages, such as getting money for doing nothing.

Srila Prabhupada is very practical. I could be wrong, but I have the feeling that he approves of what the New Vrindaban leaders did insofar as their signing up for the oil fracking monetary bonanza goes.

Ys, Ptd

[Mellanie L Nagel]

On 2/13/14 1:23 PM, Nori Muster wrote:
> think how valuable your land could be in the future if it is the only unspoiled land in the state
> it is a long term investment

Problem is, it's not only gas leases, it's also coal mining. Those coal
leases were signed over a 100 years ago, well before we came along. And,
our dear next door neighbor, who is literally next door, just signed
with a coal company to place an air shaft only a few hundred yards away
from the temple. These air shafts cause horrendous 24 hr noise and air
pollution. In the same way, we don't have the mineral right for the
original farm. It's not as simple as one might think from the onset.

[Mellanie L Nagel]

On 2/13/14 1:46 PM, Pratyatosa wrote:
> It's my understanding that those who don't sign up, if they are
> surrounded by people who do, still get the disadvantages of, for
> example, possible water contamination, but without any of the
> advantages, such as getting money for doing nothing.

That is exactly the point. If you make a strong group of land owners and
create strong leases with environmental protections, it's not 100%
guaranteed no problems, but there is control, even over the traffic. One
example, they cannot drill above a certain depth, they have to put 3
encasements on the well pipes (instead of the usual two). No trucks in
and out on Festival days, such as Janmasatami (you'd have to be around a
drill site to appreciate that one). Noise and air pollution safe
guards. None of those would be available without signing. So, money
aside, those are some of the advantages. Also, they can horizontally
drill and take your gas anyway so many prefer to get that money instead
of letting it go to the gas company. It's a kali yuga situation,
without a doubt. The only good thing that I've noticed is that they are
very organized, neat and clean as they go about their dirty business!

[Nori Muster]

Instead of exploiting natural resources mainly from countries in Africa, they now exploit America's land. They got all the tea partiers to demand it, right? "Drill baby drill," and all that stuff. Energy independence! It was all a hoax to get Americans to give up their natural resources to these ultra-rich multi-national corporations.

The oil industry thinks it's cute when we try to regulate them.

They pay practically nothing for the resources, then they pay practically no income tax.

They have got people fighting with each other over petty social issues, all to make us forget what they are doing to us. They are like drug dealers, manipulating us, doing whatever they can to increase our dependency on their negative energy.

Last year I did a tour of the Mississippi and Louisiana Gulf Coast and talked to people about bioremediation.

Here is my website on EPA-approved bioremediation products: http://toxiccleanup911.steamboats.com/

Bioremediation (microbial), phytoremediation (plant), mycoremediation (fungus), and other natural processes can fully remediate toxic spills, but guess what? The petro industry overlords think it is cute that we would try to clean up after them. 

If any money is to go toward clean-up, they make sure it goes to their own bank accounts. They own Corixit, which is the only thing they will use, even though it is worse than doing nothing.

They think they are so smart, but someday they will have a collision with reality. Not sure what form it will take, but they probably think about the French Revolution somewhere in the back of their minds. There are about a hundred people who hold more wealth than half of the rest of us (the U.N. labor report said it was eighty-six individuals). These aristocrats finance elections and probably think they call the shots. They would be surprised if the other six billion people suddenly realize what they were doing and who they are. So far they have been able to make us think we are crazy, like it's a conspiracy theory, but the United Nations confirmed it is true. The distribution of wealth has a very sharp point at the top of the pyramid.

[Mario Pineda]

Yes. I did not now about Subal, but knew of all the others. Yes many of us all over the world are looking closely at Bangalore, so they may NOT compromise. If they do, well, we will expose them too. That simple. Jai Srila Prabhupada!

MD

[Pratyatosa]

Achutananda and Tamal Krishna had nothing to do with it, and were probably not even in LA at the time. (Summer of 1970.)

Ys, Ptd

[Pratyatosa]

The "takeover" involved keeping Srila Prabhupada completely isolated and controlling all of his incoming and outgoing communication. If Prabhupada said something that they didn't like, they wouldn't repeat it! :-(

Prabhupada, with the help of a few of his other ISKCON leaders, sent the 4 culprits packing. He then immediately wrote the Direction of Management which formed the GBC. (See: <http://iskcon-dom.com/dom.html>.)

Proof that Tamal Krishna could not have been one of the culprits is that he was one of 12 original GBC men that Prabhupada listed in the DOM. In other words, at that time at least, he, like Bhagavan, was part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Ys, Ptd

[Mario Pineda]

This is not the information I just got from very senior devotees in Alachua. But we must make sure and record for history and ideally an apology. Jai Srila Prabhupada! Most devotees and general people do not belive these thanigs happened! Jai Srila Prabhupada!

MD

[Nori Muster]

Come to think of it, Acyutananda was probably in India.

[Nori Muster]

Just because someone was put on the GBC in 1970 does not give them wings and halos.

I was under the impression that he put some of the most difficult disciples on the GBC, not because he thought they were honest and qualified. But because he thought that giving them some power would mellow them out. That was how I heard the story.

Anyways, as we know, the GBC was supposed to be an elected body with term limits.

Instead, the men got themselves ensconced on the board and turned into power mongers.

[Pratyatosa]

Yes. "Power mongers" is a good one, Mother Nori Prabhu. I should add it to my list of their other "divine" qualities: "egomaniacs," "scene stealers," "glory grabbers," "control freaks," and "not very advanced." (See below.)

It was like a juggling act trying to keep some of these ambitious neophytes from being more trouble than they were worth. It's like I wrote more than 15 years ago:

One attitude that the “little” devotees had about the ISKCON “biggies” was expressed to me in 1971, by Dinesh Dāsa. I told Dinesh that I wanted to travel with Śrīla Prabhupāda, so that I could make good quality recordings of his lectures and conversations, make sure that the various P.A. systems that he would be using were working, and were correctly adjusted. Dinesh told me, “That’s for devotees who are not very advanced, who need a lot of personal association with Prabhupāda!” I replied, “That’s me! I’m not very advanced! I want to travel with Prabhupāda!”

Many devotees had the attitude that these “biggies” who were always hanging around Śrīla Prabhupāda were “egomaniacs,” “scene stealers,” “glory grabbers,” “control freaks,” and were “not very advanced.” (<http://pratyatosa.com/?P=u&TP=4863>)

Little did we know, at the time, that they would someday make vigorous propaganda that they are superior to their godbrothers because of their personal association with Prabhupada! Whereas the truth is that the most advanced disciples of Srila Prabhupada would simply do their service without making any demands upon him such as wasting his precious time by writing numerous letters to him.

Ys, Ptd

[Mario Pineda]

Thanks. The first draft of the DOM was written in 1938, then revised in 1942 and 1953. I saw these in Alachua. A detail we could say, but it is important to understand that Srila Prabhupada was working on this MOST important idea very very long ago!! So it waqs very dear to him. I agree that Bhagavan dasa was part of the solution, but Tamal would refert to Srila Prabhupada wiht not onw but two F words! You did not know that? Now Hrdayananda dasa said that Srila Prabhupada is a dead old man too. So there is much need to defend Srila Prabhupada from ALL these devils!

In Alachua, the gift shop had only 2 books of Srila Prabhupada among hundreds of others. Somehow Srila Prabhupada used demons to assist him. One devotee was with Srila Prabhupada and Tamal and Vishnujana entered the temple and Srila Prabhupada said, "Here come the two demons." Very sincere devotee. This devotee gave me har and nail clippings form Srila Prabhupada!

Jai Srila Prabhupada

MD

--

[Nori Muster]

 guru groupies

[Nori Muster]

Some people were better than others, but we all did stupid stuff in ISKCON. As long as we can avoid having to socialize with people we don't like, why think about them more than necessary? Rather than focus on how bad somebody was, we would be better served to try to move the conversation forward. 

What do we want out of all this?

What will relieve the pain of betrayal?

What can we do to create a better outcome?

What is best for our own souls, and the collective?

con...@norimuster.com

Sent from my iPad

[Ron P Conroy]

I don't understand the idea of protection by lease signing.

From what you say about neighbors signing , all water there may be ruined including yours, since the underground water is connected.

[Ron P Conroy]

thank you for all the info Mahatma prabhu

[rmd]

"The distribution of wealth has a very sharp point at the top of the pyramid"

Thanks Nandini, right, thing is what Prabhupada did is to actually talk with these people and convince them that there are better solutions, to do a lot of persuading. It has become a fashion of some less intelligent kanisthas to simply conclude, told ya so it's a conspiracy.

Then they surf to all those conspiracy websites and this is their new siksa-guru,  Brother Nathanael's amazing videos!. Prabhupada's approach was not to create hostility, ill-will, animosity with the rich people but invite them, talk with them, give them prasadam and engage them. So this requires that we actually research, investigate to find real solutions to all these crimes against the environment.

Main problem is that over the years many devotees fell to the kanistha platform and struggle with crisis of faith. I talked with many ex-ISKCONites and they are quite expert to build up that facade of, "haribol, prabhu, lets keep on chanting". When looking close things are different. Mostly these devotees figure a) Prabhupada's books are full of mistakes, b) they couldnt manage to become free of unwanted things c) they tell you that they couldn't attain the platform of spiritual happiness.

In that situation they seek shelter with all those ideas that the elite wants to eliminate us and besides, God doesn't care, He might not even be there. Like that. In this way things remain stuck, fronts are hardening, isolation increases and nothing happens, zero. All over US, where are Prabhupada temples? After 20 years, zero. Now the hope ISKCON Bangalore will send money. 

So we have to leave behind this kanistha level. Prabhupada's program is to the opposite, he used to invite exactly these people and present them solutions or asked them to help starting a farm. In this way Prabhupada would go all over the world and start projects everywhere.

Now things have switched, Prabhupada's  projects are being used to make money and important people are not contacted anymore because they are "string puppets of satan". People in general don't feel any spiritual value because  Vaishnava institution are cut off from the parampara and are only after money.

Prabhupada: "I have got a temple, I am getting good income, let me eat and sleep." My Guru Maharaja condemned this process. He said that to earn livelihood by showing some temple and collecting money and eat and sleep, better to become a sweeper in the street and earn his livelihood instead of earning livelihood in this so-called spiritual way. So practically all over the world a class of men, a priestly class of men, they have made it a means of earning livelihood, temple achar, taking money from people and enjoying, and then become drunkard.     (January 18, 1972, Jaipur)

[Malatidevi]

We have our own water operation which we are obligated to test regularly and we do. Our water is not contaminated thus far. But water doesn't general show up in one spot without connection to water sources elsewhere. Therefore a combined signage gave stronger protection in our area. So far. 

At the feet of Srila Prabhupada

[Ron P Conroy]

well "if" it turns out that ground water is undrinkable then you have to but water

and "if" it turns out that irrigation water is toxic to plants then no planting.

cows would be hard to keep in those circumstances also. original purpose of NV may be gone. 

In the long run all the gas and coal will be used up leaving only the pollution behind.  Hopefully we'll be gone ?

as one nuke physicist put it, were using nuclear energy to boil water. 

whole pacific ocean is polluted as is west coast of NA and daily is the nuke stuff increasing in accumulation. all happy thoughts 

hare krsna 

were going to Ocala forest saturday, rainbow fest to distribute another 20 5 gal buckets of  prasadam, with kirtan and books >>>>>>>>>

[Ron P Conroy]

funny

[Pratyatosa]

The baby boomers grew up with many atmospheric tests of nuclear bombs, some of them huge. There were a total of more than 1000 atmospheric nuclear tests. Net effect on humanity: zero!

So how can a nuclear accident, thousands of miles away, have any effect whatsoever? It doesn't make sense. Also, the amount of radioactive waste leaking into the Pacific ocean is completely insignificant. The Pacific ocean is huge!

Here are the actual facts: 28 fallacies about the Fukushima nuclear disaster’s effect on the US West Coast.

Ys, Ptd

On Friday, February 14, 2014 6:29:46 AM UTC-5, P Conroy wrote:

[David Sherk]

Note Big "IF" here

"I Have Seen A Paper Which Says That > If < In Fact The
Fourth Plant Goes Under In An Earthquake And Those
Rods Are Exposed, It’s Bye Bye Japan And Everybody
On The West Coast Of North America Should Evacuate"
Award Winning Scientist
David Suzuki

[Pratyatosa]

"I Have Seen A Paper?" Where is it? What's the URL? More delusional paranoid nonsense!

The Alachua devotees have to try to rationalized why they are paying top dollar to live is such an unpleasant climate. They went bonkers over Y2K also.

At least on the West Coast the devotees can "head for the hills." Where are there any hills to head for in Alachua? A huge tidal wave could wipe out the entire state of Florida in a few minutes!

Ys, Ptd

On Friday, February 14, 2014 8:04:41 AM UTC-5, David Sherk wrote:

[Pratyatoṣa Dāsa]

On Friday, February 14, 2014 8:53:22 AM UTC-5, Pratyatosa wrote:

"I Have Seen A Paper?" Where is it? What's the URL? More delusional paranoid nonsense!

The Alachua devotees have to try to rationalized why they are paying top dollar to live in such an unpleasant climate. They went bonkers over Y2K also.

At least on the West Coast the devotees can "head for the hills." Where are there any hills to head for in Alachua? A huge tidal wave could wipe out the entire state of Florida in a few minutes!

Ys, Ptd


On Friday, February 14, 2014 8:04:41 AM UTC-5, David Sherk wrote:

[Nori Muster]

From what you say, many of the problems are in people's minds.

Minds are hard to change, but easier to change than broken down infrastructure.

[Nori Muster]

Despite what they say could happen "if," when we think of these issues, we can put all our positive prayers on the situation. If we automatically fall into fear and conspiracy theories, what does that say about us? If we believe in God, we need to pray. One incarnation we could pray to is Lord Varaha. He saved the earth when it fell out of its orbit due to oil extraction. The petroleum companies are essentially the modern Hiranyakshas.

[Mario Pineda]

Yes Nori. You are right and the fact is that more and more of us are too busy promoting Srila Prabhupada to pay attention to the veda vata ratas. (rascal self made Gods" But there is nothing wrong if a few devotees do the service of exposing the rascals. We need to nicely understand and live as much as we can, the proper philosophy, the proper history and who is who in the movement. So we keep the honor of Srila Prabhupada high and people are not cheated.
 

I just got news that we just got a nice temple for Srila Prabhupada. This was so because someone took just half hour to talk about the the real philosophy, the history and the deviants and gave a little out literature. I know this case very well. It only took that and we have a whole temple for Srila Prabhupada!! So when we have that going, who is going to mediate day and night on the rascals? But we have to tell others about them to get the temple  and disciples back and make new temples and disciples. Fight for the sake of fighting. Of course, I come from a family of ex monks and ex military men. Srila Prabhupada does give the option., expose or totally neglect, for most women and others who have no ksatrya genes. This means ., do not associate with them and no significant support.

Srila Prabhupada is the biggest genius!

MD

[Ron P Conroy]

enenews.com

believe what you will

geiger counters show the west coast calf are over safe radioactive

actually the amount of information showing that nuclear contamination is spreading is tremendous.

Try listening to Helen Caldocott, nuclear physicist. 

Did you think that Kali was not going to advance ad destroy through nuclear contamination ? 

over 2 years ago a large organic farm in Oregon shut down due to radioactive fallout ..

believe what you will. the sardines have disappeared from west coast BC. 

Star fish are melting away. 

Ever day fukishima fall out is ACUMULATING and for how long will this go on ? After, well after we have left these bodies it will be continuing . Check out the life span of uranium, plutonium, cessium. The duty of gov sponsored mass media is to pacify the minds of the mass's, to tell them that everythiing is ok, hunky dory. To not create panic. 

One mans sail from japan to west coast NA was through a dead zone 3000 miles of garbage. during the day thay had to watch constantly for debris that may hit the prop. During the night they could not use it, or take the risk. That 3000 miles was no birds. 

enenews.com has all this news for last few years in many articles you won't find in mainstream media

bye now

hare krsna     

[Ron P Conroy]

good luck ?

[Ron P Conroy]

i watched a video of a man walking a san francisco beach with geiger counter. it often went above the safe level

one doctor surfer said that he will no longer go in Hawaii waters, pacific ocean.

[David Sherk]

Queen Kunti prayed for  calamities. Why?  Because then we remember Krishna.

[Ron P Conroy]

no conspiracy theory at fukishima , a HUGE wave hit , you saw video's on you tube, that wave destroyed 6 nuclear facilities,  for over 2 years those facilities have been spewing radioactiveness in the air land and pacific ocean. It is uncontained, NOT contained . 10,000 years no more food Prabhupada said. end of Kali people 2 feet tall, lost power of speech. Seems that Kali works through this UGRA KARMA science, slaughter houses, intoxication, gambling and illicit sex.  were going back to the rainbow gathering ocala forest FL today with 15/ 5 gal buckets prasad books and kirtan..excited 

[Nori Muster]

Thanks David, but my advice is do not pray for calamities like Queen Kunti because as ordinary human beings we will not have the capacity to surrender in love like Queen Kunti.

Queen Kunti conceived babies with demigods (can you do that?), then she watched them  grow up to kill nearly everyone in her family during the Kurukshetra War. 

Her nephew Krishna was there during the war, helping her get through it. He convinced her (like he convinced her son Arjuna) that killing everyone in the war was divine lila. She might not have understood fully at the time, but it had to go down in history the way it did for the Mahabharata, and she lovingly accepted it. Because she loved her nephew, Krishna, and trusted Him, she prayed as she did.

The ISKCON gurus attempted to exploit Queen Kunti's story of surrender to prove to the followers that we should pray for more calamities because the gurus' calamities were the gurus' lila that would somehow make us better devotees, especially if we prayed for calamities.

The gurus wanted us to pray for calamities whenever they knew their screw-ups would be coming out in the newspapers. At least they could make us blame ourselves when it happened, and not blame them. It's their lila, right? We prayed for it, we got it, right?

The upshot is, we can get strength from knowing of the surrender of great souls like Queen Kunti during a desperate time in history, but we are not supposed to think we are as good as Queen Kunti. Or that our prayers for bad things to happen will do anything other than bring more bad things into our lives. Being human, we will then forget we prayed for them, and just complain and feel miserable.

Here are a few things I posted about Queen Kunti:

The Court of Dhritarastra http://surrealist.org/gurukula/storymatters/krishna.html#k9

[background about the family]

Teachings of Queen Kunti

http://surrealist.org/gurukula/storymatters/distort.html#sd3 

Queen Kunti, mother of the five Pandavas, faced many tragic situations due to Duryodhana, her nephew. Nevertheless, throughout her life she remained close to her in-laws Dhritarastra and Gandhari, the parents of Duryodhana, and retired to the forest with them and died with them at the end. She felt a strong bond of attachment to her family and she also loved her nephew Krishna, her brother's son. Despite the curses that Gandhari had for Krishna, Kunti remained loyal to Krishna. 

After the Great War, when Krishna was about to leave for His own kingdom in the north, Kunti offered her prayers of unconditional love and devotion in the humble mood of one who has been devastated by life's circumstances. She prayed, 

My Lord, Your Lordship can easily be approached, but only by those who are materially exhausted. One who is on the path of material progress, trying to improve himself with respectable parentage, great opulence, high education, and bodily beauty, cannot approach You with sincere feeling. My obeisances are unto You, who are the property of the materially impoverished. (Teachings of Queen Kunti, p. 53, 61) 

She asks Krishna to free her from material attachment to family and worldly affairs, so she can go to the forest and dedicate herself to meditation. Lord Chaitanya also prayed in the mood of the goddess's unconditional surrender: "O son of Maharaja Nanda (Krishna), I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet." (Siksastaka 5) 

Kunti pledges her unconditional devotional love (bhakti) to Krishna in this famous passage: 

My dear Krishna, Your Lordship has protected us from a poisoned cake, from a great fire, from cannibals, from the vicious assembly, from suffering during our exile in the forest, and from the battle where great generals fought. And now You have saved us from the weapon of Asvatthama. I wish that all those calamities would happen again and again so that we could see You again and again, for seeing You means that we will no longer see repeated births and deaths. (Teachings of Queen Kunti, p. 35, 43) 

Devotees of Krishna find strength in Kunti's words of humility, surrender and tenderness toward Krishna, delivered just after she has endured the terror of the Great War. However, stories may also be twisted to suit institutional goals, or cover perpetrators' tracks. For example, Bhagavatam speakers sometimes advised devotees to go before the Deity and pray for bad things to happen in order to surrender like Kunti. This is a feeble interpretation to say the least, because it minimizes the intent of Kunti's words: unconditional love and surrender. 

[Nori Muster]

I thought the rainbow gathering was over the 4th of July weekend.

What are they doing out in the forest in the middle of February? 

[Nori Muster]

Congratulations on your preaching success.

Yes on knowing one's own ancestry. 

Over the last ten years, I learned a lot about my ancestry, especially my father's family. My dad was an orphan, so we never knew much about them. It turns out that his grandfather came to America just in time to fight in the Civil War. 

When he signed up for the Indiana Volunteers, he listed his nationality as Swiss. He was a Swiss national fighting in the American Civil War. A lovely story. 

The boat he was on in the Outer Banks of North Carolina was immediately captured by Confederate soldiers in 1861 and he spent most of the war in prison camps, including Andersonville.

But don't feel sorry for him! He got home safely, married his sweetheart, and had eleven children, including my father's father.

Then he died at the age of fifty-seven and she raised all the children as a widow. All the Musters in America descended from this common ancestor and his eleven children. I have met some of them through the Internet.

My mother's ancestors came over around the time of the Civil War also, but so far I have not found any who fought in the war. My mother's mother's side were Vikings from Denmark (Christiansen).

My mother's father's side were Prussians from Berlin. They were also Lutherans. Just among the American ancestors since the middle 1800s, that side of the family had eighteen Lutheran ministers and school teachers. Some are still living. My mother's grandfather was an itinerant preacher who started the St. Paul's Lutheran churches in Wisconsin, Missouri, and Iowa. Our family pretty much founded the Missouri Synod. Or "The Syndicate" as we call it. It is the most cult-like branch of the Lutheran church. ha ha, ancestry is so much fun.

I posted my father's ancestry pages here: http://billmuster.com/genealogy.html 

[Pratyatosa]

Publicity hounds with geiger counters are only fooling the fools. They would have gotten exactly the same readings before Fukushima, but they didn't take any readings before Fukushima, so they have no scientific basis for comparison.

According to Experts address Fukushima-related radiation concerns, "Modern technology shows that there is no increased level of radiation due to Fukushima."

After the Alachua devotees made complete fools of themselves with their predictions of a huge Y2K disaster, you'd think that they'd have learned their lesson! But, no. Here they go again with more crackpot predictions, this time about dangerous nuclear fallout on the West Coast of the USA due to a nuclear accident thousands of miles away!

Ys, Ptd

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 12:51:36 AM UTC-5, P Conroy wrote:

[Mario Pineda]

Great Nori!! Now we know why you have been involved with one of the most destructive cults in history full of "Gods!!" Lol. Of course, I am sure that the cult your family formed., "the Syndicate," has more common sense and they at once would kick out anyone that wanted to promote themselves to be as good as Krishna or Jesus and have their feet bathed with warm milk, rose water, etc.

I was thinking about that. Except for someone like Jesus and Srila Prabhupada, in my mind, I find it very strange that one will want his feet washed in that way. Me only wash my feet! Lol.

Nori. I think we have to be more mild than thinking that the Bangalore leadership is just interested in Real Estate. If that was the case, it would be much more profitable to just do Real Estate without having to follow the DOM, the last will and testament of Srila Prabhupada and the July 9th 1977 directive. Get up very early and chant 16 rounds and do all the very demanding Deity worship they do. I think these devotees have a good degree of sincerity. Now, if they compromise what Srila Prabhupada wanted with violent criminals, then you can be given credit, not before that. As of now however, there is no compromise. The corrupt GBC has to come in line 100%, that is the Bangalore stand as of now. There is no need for Jayapataka dasa to contact Bangalore till they agree to do that. They are to discuss this at the up coming GBC meetings.

In the mean time, I understand there is yet another temple coming to Srila Prabhupada as we write here, after just a half our meeting!! Jai Srila Prabhupada!!

Mahatma dasa

[Nori Muster]

One news anchor, Thom Hartman on Free Speech TV, reads the radioactivity readings for major cities. It sounds like a weather report:

Philadelphia radiation is at 45 with spikes of 75; Tucson is experiencing radiation of 35 with spikes of 82, etc.

He gets his info. from this site, which is known to be reliable: https://www.radcast.org/

[Nori Muster]

I apologize if it sounded like I said Bangalore just wants the real estate.

I don't even know who is in Bangalore, or really any details about the situation. Maybe it was too much of an assumption, but in the past in ISKCON, the name of the game was to get people to sign over their real estate to the GBC so that the property could be listed in the Back to Godhead temple list.

And yeah, the Lutheran syndicate is nothing compared to ISKCON. They were just overly strict, maybe like Catholic nuns who rap your knuckles with a ruler. That's about the extent of it. My mom and her siblings went to Lutheran school. The teacher was a tyrant who always shamed the farm kids for being overweight. It did not bother my mom, but my aunt suffered emotionally from having to witness the abuse. As far as I know, the teacher did not beat or rape kids, just made them feel bad about themselves.

[Nori Muster]

I apologize for the giant soapbox I posted in regards to Queen. Kunti, but that has been an issue of mine for decades. Praying for bad things to happen dooms you to develop bad attitudes and feel miserable.

Remember the phrase, your words are your wand . . . 

Imagine how great the world would be if all the light-filled devotees stopped praying for calamities. 

What if we only used our words and prayers for positive ends? A few more positive things to think about besides trying to be Queen Kunti:

 

There has to be a way to solve this problem and we will find it.

This situation can heal itself if we give it time and what it needs.

People may have fought in the past, but they could reconcile and forgive.

Although the situation looks bleak, it will just make our victory more satisfying when we finally achieve our goals.

There may be loss and grief in life, but new thing come in to fill the void.

Someone may have sinned, but a merciful god still loves the person's soul and can show him the way back.

And so on. . . . .

con...@norimuster.com

Sent from my iPad

[Ron P Conroy]

ocala national forest florida 

65 degrees and sunny yesterday 

we did 6 5 gal buckets of prasadam , 20 bhagavad gitas and some chanting

[rainer hahn]

@"People may have fought in the past, but they could reconcile and forgive."

Thanks Nandini dd, agreed, to forgive is surely a huge topic among devotees. Main problem seems that first of all a regime of tyranny has to be rectified, or a confession of guilt uttered. Then high level of transparency, co-management, rank&file participation, bona fide leadership installed.

Mainly devotees see things from US perspective, what happened there. We European devotees always felt like under dictatorship of US colonial rule enacted by US colonial masters whose policy was to off shore.

Child abuse is foreign to us because there were no children. Sometimes the wife of a temple president had one child and thats it. The rest were told to go out 24/7 and distribute Prabhupada's books like worker ants. Now they set up EURO GBC, indicating that this is representing interest of local devotees whereas in fact this is nothing but US colonialism.

When mentioning that practically 99% of former ISKCON devotees took a flight and joined GM in order to have devotee infrastructure, US Prabhupadanuga tenor: I'll rather die than join GM.

After having totally destroyed good reputation and disposing all the money they want us to die. So this needling and teasing still goes on.   

In sum, yes, devotees are forgiving but how you can forgive when the torturing still goes on? ysrmd

 

[Mario Pineda]

Hare Krishna. Just wanted to say that Prabhupadanugas do not wnat to die nor do we want anyone to die. We follow Srila Prabhupada's orders, that is all. Srila Prabhupada ordered we NOT associate, buy books or sell books to his God brothers and their disciples. So e follow that order.

I am not the most scholarly devotee or the most receptive one, but I don't have to be. All I have to do is have enough faith in Srila Prabhupada to follow his orders.

Not the most perceptive, but it is an obvious fact, that NM is a disciple of a God brother of Srila Prabhupada. so I am not as a a Srila Prabhupada follower to associate with him, his books and his disciples.

Also, I have noticed in the history that NM "re-initiated" or changed the names of devotees who Srila Prabhupada had performed the initiation ceremony and gave a spiritual name. This I find not at all nice.

Also, it is a fact that NM was a strong supporter of the the corrupt GBC and it's false gurus who had disobeyed Srila Prabhupada in many occasions and had been most violent toward him. Many of these men who were supported by NM, ended up being responsible for molesting at least 1000 children! I think NM supported the divaints, because he wanted to become the Acarya for ISKCON after Srila Prabhupada's passing. So ambition blinded him and our children and many others suffered a lot because of his ambition, in my estimation.

Also, NM philosphy is not that of Sridhar Swami of hundreds of years and that of Jiva Goswami 500 years ago. These two greatest of souls, advocated the svakiya rasa. This means, Radha is Krishna's wife and we should work now and samadhi later. This was advocated also by Bhaktivinod Thakur, Bhaktisiddganta Sarasvati and by our Srila Prabhupada. This has been so, because svakiya rasa, makes for less sahajiyas or pretenders, who have given a horrible reputation to the Caitanya bhakti.

So we donl't wnat to risk death, nor we want anyone to die. We simply must follow the orders of our spiritual master, and  in time we get to understand why Srila Prabhupada gave certain orders. That is all. We wish all, peace, happiness and love and hope others wish us the same. At the end of the day, that is all.

Srila Prabhupada ki jai!!

Mahatma dasa

[David Sherk]

Hari bol,
               All I can say us that the Brahmanas did not forgive Venu >  They cursed him to death.   Yes, so called leaders within Iskcon  & in society in general are still able to obfuscate the situation.  I say curse them all to death. Sick bastards. I desire the situation to become so bad that these rascals can no longer fool the innocent public. How many more Gurukuli suicides do we need?               Gadai
          Invoking Chaitanya with his Sudarsana chakra

[Labangalatika Dasi]

On Monday, February 10, 2014 9:15:41 PM UTC+5:30, rmd wrote:

HG Urmila devi dasi, Feb 10 2014 (facebook discussion - "The GBC Does Not Vote In Gurus"): Prabhu, if the GBC are misunderstanding guru tattva by their unauthorized authorization process, it is perfectly legitimate for us ISKCON members to say so. A mandated bureaucratic process is far, far different from voluntarily getting blessings. I do not like those who imagine the GBC to have ill motives. We do have a responsibility as ISKCON members to say something in the appropriate forum, and in an appropriate way, when resolutions and laws are opposed to sadhu-sastra-guru.

The GBC have a voting system! They have a voting system! If a GBC member says they don't, one really, really, really has to wonder..... clearly at least some of them know that a voting system is bogus. So, they deny that they are doing what they are doing.
First level of voting is local--the candidate has to get a majority vote of a local council. Second level of voting is by the whole GBC body via email. They only collect "no" votes--silence is a "yes" vote. In some cases there will be a third level of voting in person at the GBC meeting. How anyone can say this is not voting is beyond the dictionary definition and beyond logic.

It is unfortunate that many devotees, including many leaders, think that the choices are unsastric bureaucracy or anarchy. Those of us schooled in organizational leadership and management know that there are MANY organizational forms and structures besides those two. Accusing those opposed to bureaucracy (which would include Srila Prabhupada!) of wanting anarchy is simply ignorance at best.

If you want to know whether or not the GBC rules are a voting system, why not just read the rules yourself and see? It's pretty obvious. And, if you want to say that a voting system is sastric, why not research it and see what sadhu-sastra-guru have to say about voting systems to decide who is a bona fide guru?

Perhaps you recall the reason I left the SP disciples' conference....

With all due respect, if we want to research sadhu-sastra-guru on how someone is known as a bona fide guru--what is the criteria and what is not the criteria--we read and study the sastra, the commentaries of the acaryas, the words of our own guru and guru parampara, and study the lives of the acaryas both in our line and in other bona fide lines for millennia. If we find solid evidence which states that voting procedures of institutional bodies are necessary for knowing whether or not someone is a bona fide guru, then we know that such procedures are correct according to sadhu-sastra-guru.

We do NOT know simply by having discussions among ourselves without thorough reference to sadhu-sastra-guru. "The Krishna Consciousness Movement is Authorized." Why? Because on matters of siddhanta, which includes guru-tattva, we should be firmly and unequivocally grounded in sadhu-sastra-guru, not our own personal opinions or so-called practical considerations and flawed logic.

[Nori Muster]

the Rainbow Family people appreciate your free food

good for you

[Nori Muster]

Thanks for bringing up these points. People may reconcile, but it cannot be forced. If perpetrators are unrepentant, and still abusing, it would be wrong--codependent--to forgive them. The best time to forgive is after a perpetrator changes, makes amends, and gets consequences. For the most part, that has not happened in ISKCON, but it could.

European schools were better funded and were not abusive. The children told me that the schools in Europe for the most part were a refuge from abuse. The worst schools were in Mayapur, Vrindavana, New Vrindavana, early Dallas, and other places where abusers were transferred.

re. GBC. My understanding is that as long as a temple belongs to ISKCON, they must accept GBC domination. Not all GBC are American. The GBC is like one of those multi-national corporations that does not respect any particular country's environmental laws, labor laws, etc.

What is GM? Is that a guru? Sorry, I am blocking on those initials.

[Nori Muster]

Oh duh, GM = Gaudiya Math

right?

On Feb 16, 2014, at 2:22 AM, rainer hahn wrote:

[Nori Muster]

Mahatma - you are a level headed person. Good on you. That has to be the best way to approach spiritual life.

re. GM gurus. I never wanted to venture in to the complicated relations between GM and ISKCON. Yikes, like why throw yourself into the rapids with no boat and no paddle? It never made sense to me. I watched from afar as people did their spinning in the whirlpools of the ISKCON to GM controversies. It was painful at times, like that nice couple that lived on Watseka. The temple leaders found out they had gone to an NM meeting or something, and kicked them out of their apartment. The stress caused the woman to have a miscarriage and lose a baby boy she really wanted. Stuff like that just got too hard to witness, so I completely left and gave up being a fringie in 1998.

It was much more fun to life free and aloof and spend my free time thinking of funny acronyms to describe what was really going on in ISKCON. Some of my favorites: 

ITSACON

ITSGONE

EX-CON

I guess we are all ex-cons,

Nori

[Nori Muster]

I pretty much agree with you, Gadai. The stuff that happened in ISKCON, especially to the children, was sick. Getting angry is natural, but holding onto anger does not solve anything.

To elaborate on the demons in ISKCON . . . . like in the Bhagavatam, each demon has a different history. Some were just bad people, like Kamsa. Krishna easily killed him when the time came.

Other demons were paying the karma for a past life, but were ultimately restored as good devotees. That would be like Jaya and Vijaya, who incarnated as Hiranyaksha and Hiranyakashipu, and their other demon incarnations. Or demons were playing out the effects of a curse, like Gagendra and the crocodile. Other demons could be converted into devotees, like Mrgrari, Jagai, Madai, etc.

There is a whole spectrum of where demons may come from, who they really are, and where their karma is leading them.

Since it is all so complicated and a person's karmic history is not readily available to us, we have to accept that vengeance belongs to the Lord. If we have faith in God, we have to accept that He will deal with it. As mere humans, we are just here to witness for God. We can see what is going on without having to hold onto it and let the anger drag us down. 

When we feel anger, the anger is inside us. We decide what to keep in between our two ears. What we think about is the only thing in this world that is truly under our own control.

God knows I have been an angry person and that I still sometimes express my anger inappropriately. That is one thing I am still trying to work on: following the Golden Rule. 

As far as the demons, I do not want to see them or be around them. As long as I do not have to socialize with them, I do not think about them. Plus, I have done my part to expose their secrets, which gives me peace of mind about it.

[Nori Muster]

Is Urmila saying that the GBC vote on issues, or that they get voted on and off the board?

It's hard to tell what Urmila is saying.

Are there terms? term limits? Just curious . . . .

[Pratyatosa]

She's saying that the GBC's current voted-in "guru" system is bogus. Here's what I said about it previously:

Just see! Even members of the GBC's own Sastric Advisory Committee (SAC) are beginning to speak out about the fact that their voted-in multiple "guru" system is bogus. But what alternative does the GBC have? The only ones that I can think of are Srila Prabhupada's ingenious ritvik system of initiations or complete chaos!

Prabhupada was clearly against having more than one guru within ISKCON because it creates factions, which he was also against:

I have heard that there is some worship of yourself by the other devotees. Of course it is proper to offer obeisances to a Vaisnava, but not in the presence of the spiritual master. After the departure of the spiritual master it will come to that stage, but now wait. Otherwise it will create factions. (SPL to Hansadutta dasa, October 1, 1974)

And yet, certain self-motivated rascals actually have the audacity to use the above as evidence to try to legitimatize the GBC's concocted, ever-changing multiple guru system!

Ys, Ptd

[Mario Pineda]

There is No real philosophy nor accountability. The characteristic of the veda vata rata, (rascal self made "Gods".) is that they don't follow Krishna, nor His scriptures, nor His sadhus nor His Acaryas. They will make their won philosophy and resolutions, but they won't follow those either. They are totally out of control in  mad addicted condition of self promotion. Most solid evidence of this, is the fact that the GBC has made it clear, that only one in five of the leaders are giving annual financial statements. In other words, there is 80% lack of accountability, IF the 20% are giving truthful reports!! Lol!! It's a joke!!

Mahatma dasa

[Nori Muster]

Oh, I get it. Well, not sure if you can vote in a guru (probably not). But I thought Srila Prabhupada wanted the GBC to be voted onto the board by the temple presidents, and have term limits.

[Nori Muster]

It's a cult. What can you expect?

[rmd]

As I understand it, Urmila dd is saying that a spiritual master cannot be voted in like an administration official, staffmember ("the brahmanas elected such and such to the throne as the protector of the citizens"). Rather a spiritual master has to be truly situated on the spiritual platform. The discussion was on Gaura pr's facebook blog (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152192695216291&set=a.60830626290.95795.706816290&type=1&theater) In case you can't access facebook.com, discussion is attached to this comment.

[Mario Pineda]

Hare Krishna Nori. Yes. When I said that the two sides., The ritvik Prabhupadanugas and the corrupt GBC are talking to see if there can be some compromise, you did say something to the effect that the Bangalore devotees were looking to get more real estate.

I can understand you may have that impression and you are not the only one. But in a way, it's like throwing the baby out with the bath water, so this is why I called it to your attention. Generally, this type of perception is so, because we may not be well informed. Let me try to help in this regard, although you may have a good idea already.

Contrary to what many think, the ritvik Prabhupadanugas are very much part of the family of Srila Prabhupada. They have surrendered their lives to following the principles, chanting 16 rounds and studying and living to their capacity the teachings in Srila Prabhupada's books. They have also helped pay for temples, build temples, done great book  and Prasada distribution, etc, etc.

Also, the ritvik Prabhupadanugas have been accused of trying to destroy ISKCON, when in fact, they have been trying to curve the corruption, the lack of accountability, the gross violence against others like Sulocan dasa, the many molested children and Srila Prabhupada himself.  

One very important distinction between the ritvik Prabhupadanugas and the violent part of ISKCON is that the Prabhupadanugas, follow three important signed directives from Srila Prabhupada. One which is also notarized, is the Declaration of will, dated June of 1977. Here Srila Prabhupada states that the GBC will be., "the ultimate managing authority," but does not state that the GBC will be the ultimate spiritual authority of ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada also states that each property will be managed by 3 excutive directors that must be his initiated disciples. In the will, Srila Prabhupada also leaves money to his wife and children, but as I understand it, Srila Prabhupada's family had to take ISKCON to court, since the GBC had not followed the will declaration in their favor as Srila Prabhupada wanted. 

Then there is the Direction of management. (DOM) This document is also signed by Srila Prabhupada on July 28th 1977. This document was first drafted by Srila Prabhupada in 1938, then again in 1942, 1953 and finally signed on the date above. It states that temple Presidents will vote in or out the GBC every 3 years.

The final document Prabhupadanugas follow, is the July 9th 1977 directive about how initiations will be conducted. A group of BGCs had asked Srila Prabhupada in May 28th 1977., "question concerning initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you are no longer with us." Srila Prabhupada signed the now very famous July 9th directive saying that ritviks (priests) will conduct the ceremony and all disciples will be his initiated devotee.

Now, although the Bangalore leaders., Madhu Pandit dasa, Chanchalapati dasa, C.C dasa, etc where disciples of Jayapataka dasa, they were introduced to the above mentioned documents by Krishna Kant and Adhridaran dasa as I understand it. www.iskconirm.com is Krishna Kant's web site. This devotees has an incredible capacity and is most in target regarding what Srila Prabhupada wanted. While our dear Bangalore God brothers did not start following the ritivk system till the end of the 90s (I had my ritvik ceremony in May 22nd of 1986) they are very intelligent and educated devotees. The 3 main leaders, surrounded themselves with very sincere, intelligent devotees that are graduates of top Universities. In this way, in a short period of just over a decade, they have been able to do much service for Srila Prabhupada. They build the most temples, make the biggest distribution of the original books and of Prasada, (1.3 million plates daily at a cost of over $120,000 USD per a day and are making the most devotees also. They have 21 temples in India and 9 GBcs there. They also built a temple in Malasya and just bought 80 acres in San Francisco to build a temple there. They also have a project., Krishna Land, which is a bhakti yoga "Disneyland," projected to cost 500 million as I understand it.

So this is to give you a little idea as to the philosophy of he Prabhupadanugas and some of the history and service they have done and a bit of who is who also. I hope this helps!

Sincerely,

Mahatma dasa   

[Mario Pineda]

Nori, a guru can not be voted in. The qualified diksa guru sampradaya Acarya is placed on the Vyasasana by Krishna with the order of the previous acarya. This is the only way. He first must be totally educated about the 7 philosophies of the Vedas authored by Pantajali, Astavakra, Jaimini, Kapila, Veda Vyas, Gautama and Kanada. Purport to S.B. 1-1-7

Guru tattwa siddhanta, or the perfect conclusive truth as to who is the real guru, is the most important principle in life according to Caitanya Mahaprabhu (Krishna) and Ramananda raya (Arjuna) They discussed the topic for 7 days and nights. You recall?

Jai Srila Prabhupada.

Mahatma dasa

[Pratyatosa]

From Facebook:

Urmila Edith Best: Yes, Gaura Das, the damage of thinking a diksa guru has some special power and authority in the institution, and is different from a siksa guru (other than in function) is horrible. Yes, some gurus also contribute to this idea. This is the whole root of the whole problem.
February 11 {2014] at 5:00pm

I could be wrong, but I think that the GBC would rather go back to Srila Prabhupada's ritvik system than to give up their current "voted-in guru" system. But if they do agree to yet another grand experiment, it will obviously fail, same as the other 2 grand experiments. But maybe Lord Sri Krishna wants them to make yet another big mistake in order to teach future generations what not to do!

Prabhupada said that anyone who quotes Bhagavad-gita is a guru. Therefore, according to that criterion, you don't have to be a man or initiated or even an adult to be a guru! Sounds like complete anarchy to me if this or any similar references  are interpreted as referring to diksa gurus.

Prabhupada made it very clear that he did not want more than one diksa guru within ISKCON because it creates factions, which he is totally against!

The system that Prabhupada set up was that if the temple president said you got initiated, then you got initiated; otherwise not! Why should it be any different today? It's simply a matter of common sense management. Besides, Prabhupada said "The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change." (DECLARATION OF WILL) What could be more clear than that?

Ys, Ptd

[Nori Muster]

Duly noted that they will vote in gurus, which is not legitimate.

Yet they will not vote on board members and have term limits, which is legitimate.

n

[Nori Muster]

Thank you Mahatma, I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

It sounds like some good work is happening.

Nori

[Mario Pineda]

Yes Nori. A lot of good things are happening, that is much less violent (much less grossness and lies) and things are getting much more sophisticated too I think. You would provably appreciate the labor of Dhira Govinda dasa who pioneered preaching in Israel and wrote a book about it, since he took day by day notes of his sankirtan activities. Particularly the Druze of that area whose spiritual roots are the Vedas, are very receptive to KC. DGD has a Ph.D and is the fonder of www.satvatove.com. Check it out when you can. It is very well done. I think it's up your alley.

MD

[rainer hahn]

@Yet they will not vote on board members and have term limits, which is legitimate.

Right, they won't allow temple congregation (temple brahmanas) to vote their temple president although this would be 100% vedic. Congregation is thus placed under disability and ruled out to take part in decision-making. As soon someone objects he/she is told to start their own program although Prabhupada clearly states that only great acaryas do that.

"Anyone who is bona fide acarya, he can create his own disciplic succession, but one disciplic succession and the other disciplic— they are not different." (Mayapur, February 19, 1976)

For people in general the whole reform movement looks like mutiny, a revolt of the rank and file. Thats why there is no response.
 
Course of action should be to contact the government why they allow unconstitutional groups in their country, groups that are hostile to the constitution. Running a system of absolutism, dictatorship. and posing as God's direct representative violates constitution of western governments.  

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Rmd Prabhu, yes. It's true that they have become, in direct violation of Srila Prabhupada's orders, dictatorial tyrants. And like typical tyrants, they are cursed to have to cling to their positions of power well on into their old age lest they be brought to justice.

Are they actually violating the constitutions of some Western governments? That's an interesting approach to the problem. Maybe we should, in consultation with a constitutional lawyer, look into this in more detail.

Ys, Ptd

[Ken McLEOD]

Also, voting systems are always open to corruption.
In Australia all the people at the top of ISKCON are all good friends.
How can association based upon friendship ever be impartial ?
 

---

From: norim...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Urmila dd: It is perfectly legitimate for us ISKCON members to speak out
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 08:15:45 -0700
To: istag...@googlegroups.com

[rainer hahn]

@"Also, voting systems are always open to corruption" Agreed,  there is vote buying, misinfomation, confusing ballot papers, ballot stuffing, misrecording of votes, tampering with electronic voting machines, misuse of proxy votes. The two main strategies for the prevention of electoral fraud in society are: 1) deterrence through consistent and effective prosecution; 2) Cultivation of mores that discourage corruption. Another method to insure the integrity of electronic voting machines is independent software verification and certification.

Dear Prabhus,

constitutions of western governments resolutely dissociate from absolutism, dictatorship. Course of European history is that leaders claiming to derive the right to rule directly from the will of God caused colossal misery and harm during medieval era.

Anti-monarchism in the United States developed out of the gradual process of revolution that began as early as 1765, as colonists resisted the Stamp Act through boycott and the expulsion and condemnation of royal officials. With the Declaration of Independence in 1776, the most violent wave of anti-monarchial protest began, with the systematic destruction of the relics and symbols of monarchy.

Of course we Vaishnavas are in favor of a king who is directed by God. However this is kali-yuga. What happened so far within Vaishnava institutions - especially 1977- 2014 - should be enough to conclude that appointed lifelong leaders are not gaining popularity among temple congregations. Neither are ISKCON leaders respected by people in general as elders and betters. It makes a huge difference when let's say the temple president of New York City is elected and all people know it that this is the decision of the rank and file. 

Wikipedia: The divine right of kings, or divine-right theory of kingship, is a political and religious doctrine of royal and political legitimacy. It asserts that a monarch is subject to no earthly authority, deriving the right to rule directly from the will of God. The king is thus not subject to the will of his people, the aristocracy, or any other estate of the realm, including the Church. According to this doctrine, only God can judge an unjust king. The doctrine implies that any attempt to depose the king or to restrict his powers runs contrary to the will of God and may constitute a sacrilegious act. It is often expressed in the phrase "by the Grace of God", attached to the titles of a reigning monarch.

The remote origins of the theory are rooted in the medieval idea that God had bestowed earthly power on the king, just as God had given spiritual power and authority to the church, centering on the pope. The immediate author of the theory was Jean Bodin, who based it on the interpretation of Roman law. With the rise of nation-states and the Protestant Reformation, the theory of divine right justified the king's absolute authority in both political and spiritual matters. The theory came to the fore in England under the reign of James I of England (1603–1625, also known as James VI of Scotland 1567–1625). Louis XIV of France (1643–1715) strongly promoted the theory as well.

The theory of divine right was abandoned in England during the Glorious Revolution of 1688–89. The American and French Revolutions of the late eighteenth century further weakened the theory's appeal, and by the early twentieth century, it had been virtually abandoned.

ys

rmd

[Labangalatika Dasi]

Nori I really llked what you said  about Queen Kunti but the real point she says is that the calamaities make  her remember Krishna
,so that there will be NO more repeated birth and death.    This is our programme. But  I already hav
e enough calamities coming my way without asking for more.

[Nori Muster]

Yes, exactly. Good point. Plus, Kunti prayed at the end of the calamities, because she was ready to let go and surrender to Krishna. It is unwise to pray for bad things to happen, especially in regards to the demons and their nuclear waste. Why ask for more trouble than the energy barons have already planned for us? They love money (hiranya) so much, they are willing to destroy the earth to keep it coming in. Enough trouble from nuclear and petrol comes along on its own. What about studying the prayers of Lord Brahma that invited Lord Varaha to rescue His devotees. Krishna is our protector. 

Plus, there are three ways to learn: from hearing knowledge, from watching tragedy happen to someone else, and the lowest kind of learning: having to go through tragedy oneself.

[Ron P Conroy]

the oil barons and nuke leaders , all good friends of Kali 

[Ron P Conroy]

just as are the butchers and slaughter house's

most of them don't even know it , which is the nature of ignorance .

Alachua temple is hosting Jayadwaita swami for one month. Don't know if he will be doing book change seminars again or what, but i do know it's nice to hear transcendental class's rather that class's on policy.  Policy class's are not transcendental. 

Am dealing with kirtan contamination, ie RAMO, and loud super fast mrdunga drumming with no chanting on part of drummer.  very disturbing. Apparently Aendra prabhu told Madva prabhu for 3 hours that he must chant  audibly while drumming. That was one of the 1st things we learned, that we must chant audibly 1st of all then add instrument when we can. Any further ideas along this line will be appreciated .

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Nori Muster <norim...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Nori Muster]

SB 3.13.14: Sri Manu said: O all-powerful lord, O killer of all sins, I shall abide by your order. Now please let me know my place and that of the living entities born of me.

SB 3.13.15: O master of the demigods, please attempt to lift the earth, which is merged in the great water, because it is the dwelling place for all the living entities. It can be done by your endeavor and by the mercy of the Lord.

SB 3.13.16: Sri Maitreya said: Thus, seeing the earth merged in the water, Brahma gave his attention for a long time to how it could be lifted.

SB 3.13.17: Brahma thought: While I have been engaged in the process of creation, the earth has been inundated by a deluge and has gone down into the depths of the ocean. What can we do who are engaged in this matter of creation? It is best to let the Almighty Lord direct us.

SB 3.13.18: O sinless Vidura, all of a sudden, while Brahma was engaged in thinking, a small form of a boar came out of his nostril. The measurement of the creature was not more than the upper portion of a thumb.

SB 3.13.19: O descendant of Bharata, while Brahma was observing Him, that boar became situated in the sky in a wonderful manifestation as gigantic as a great elephant.

Teachings of Queen Kunti

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[Nori Muster]

nice way to put it, makes it clear, thanks

[rainer hahn]

And then Krishna informed that, "This heat is due to the Asvatthama's release of brahmastra," and Arjuna was advised counteract it. Now they do not know how to counteract this nuclear weapon. Formerly they knew. (Vrindavana, September 16, 1976)

Formerly they knew. Time to dig up this forgotten knowledge. India surely has this information? Otherwise they wouldn't run so many nuclear power plants in their country with world's highest population density. As of 2012, India has 20 nuclear reactors in operation, having an installed capacity of 5780 MW and producing a total of 29,664.75 GWh of electricity while seven other reactors are under construction and are expected to generate an additional 6,100 MW.

De facto there is no need to have nuclear power plants in India they could easily get everything from sun energy. So it seems India is withholding lots of knowledge?

Prabhupada: Just like sometimes the physician does not give him the proper medicine. Just to keep him under treatment and take money from him, he continues. (Honolulu, June 15, 1975, Sunday Feast Lecture)

Same here, dental industries keeps this hidden:

For toothache, we go to the dentist and they extract the teeth, but I have read in Ayurvedic medicine, there is a drug, a root. Only if you touch this side of the mouth, all the germs collected within the teeth will come out. I have seen it. Sometimes in the year 1931 or '32 I had a very severe tooth pain. So I was taken by my servant in the jungle to some, this vaidya. They cured me, and the dentist could not. I attended so many times to the dentist. I have got my practical experience. And in the Ayurvedic literature there is mention some drug, the root only if you touch here, the germs collected in the teeth, they will come out in the corner of the teeth some germs—sometimes it is itching; there is all germs—so they will come out. 

 

(Mayapura, June 20, 1973)