ex-puredevotee/infallible acarya/expansion of Krsna's mercy - Harikesa swami - selling a mansion of His:

[Vidura Das]

old article but still funny! See link:

http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/french-property.htm

the cover up:

STATEMENT ISSUED BY: 
Badrinarayana Dasa Adhikary, 
ISKCON Governing Body Commission (GBC), 
Acting Chair of the GBC Executive Committee. 
July 14, 1998

The Executive Committee of the ISKCON Governing Body Commission (GBC) regrets to inform ISKCON and its supporters that Harikesa Swami, aged 49, has recently suffered a serious physical and mental collapse.

 

It is not unusual that ISKCON leaders, when vigorously preaching Krsna consciousness even up to old age, follow the footsteps of great acaryas and tend to become aloof from bodily concerns. Consequently, leading preachers are sometimes afflicted suddenly with ailments that severely limit their ability to continue at their accustomed pace. In such cases, "slowing down" is not a sign of "giving up." Rather, it shows that a "long-term" vision can give a spiritual leader many extra years to preach Krsna consciousness.

 

Harikesa Maharaja's crisis resulted from an enormous overburden of work, the flare-up of many long-standing physical maladies and a fully committed attitude toward preaching. This attitude caused him to accept many more responsibilities than he could reasonably take on, especially in his weakened condition. We dearly love him and devotees should all intensely pray for his swift recovery. However, it will be some time before he can resume his preaching work. He is regularly meeting with godbrothers and disciples and is in excellent medical care.

haha! good one!
 

[ameyatma]

I emailed the GBC about that letter from Badri at the time (1998 ?).  I pointed out the glaring flaws I saw in their philosophy.
The GBC upheld these men as 'pure devotees' and proclaimed that they were engaged in herculean performance of 'pure' 'devotional service'.    Yet here the GBC are saying that the results of putting one's full effort into 'devotional' service is that it often ends in Mental Collapse?????     Severe disorders????      

I told them they had a duty to RETRACT that off-the-wall statement.    That the statement itself was not just offensive, it was philosophically Bogus and worse, it was misleading and dangerous.   The GBC proclaimed that the Result of performing Enormous Devotional Service, with a committed attitude toward preaching -  has resulted in a melted down collapse of this person's Mental and physical health. 
Physical health,  Ok, i can agree to that.   One can push his body past the limit in executing devotional service that could lead to a break-down of one's physical health.     BUT,  I Totally Disagreed with the Bogus idea that pushing one's self to perform great Devotional Service could ever result in a Mental Breakdown.    That concept is not supported by shastra or examples of past acharyas.   They even alluded to the bogus idea that past 'Acharyas' and Leading Preachers have, in the past, met with the SAME FATE.   
I flatly told the GBC that if we follow their off-the-wall philosophy,   better that 'devotees' DO NOT undertake too much 'devotional service',   and don't dare have a committed attitude toward preaching,   or else they face the inevitable,    total mental breakdown.   I told them their letter was nothing but    BOGUS.   

At the time I wrote the GBC I was not, yet, a supporter of the Rtvik side, I was still sitting on the fence and wasn't sure which side was right.  And, at the time there was no news as to his affair with his female 'therapist', etc.    So, we had no other information as to what may be the cause of his mental breakdown,    yet,  I offered this analysis to the GBC:

I reminded them that shastra only tells of the POSITIVE   MENTAL  results from performing pure devotional service.  That if one is Truly Engaged, in his Mind,   in his Consciousness, in performing Devotional Service, then the result will be TRANSCENDENTAL PEACE.  One will attain the most peaceful, mentally stable, state of mind.    (Not Mental collapse).   
I reminded them that Shastra, instead, tells us that if one commits an aparadh, offense, to a pure devotee,   THAT can and does lead one to suffer MENTAL anguish.    Mental Breakdown.    Thus, I told them that in the case of Harikesh, his mental breakdown was most likely due to the result of his having committed Vaishnav Aparadh,   and possibly Guru-Aparadh.      I told them,   it was Definitely NOT the result of having engaged in pure devotional service.  

Thus,  I told the GBC that if they truly wanted to HELP Harikesh,   if they truly wanted to keep him from falling down further,  that they should start investigating what, according to Shastra,   could be the TRUE cause of his mental collapse.    I told the GBC they must investigate and see if he were acting in a way that could be causing Offense to Srila Prabhupad.     

I warned the GBC,    if they do not pin point the REAL cause of his mental breakdown,   then his Offenses will go unchecked,   and he will fall down further and totally and create even Greater offenses.

So, I asked them to retract the offensive statement given by Badri (on behalf of the GBC),   and to instead investigate the REAL cause of his mental breakdown.   

The result of my letter to the GBC?    Many GBC felt that 'I' was the one who was committing the Great Offense because I was questioning the validity of the purity of one of their highly respected gurus.    Ravindra Swarup labeled me a fallen offender, etc.   My advice and my analysis were flatly rejected.

But, it was not too long after this that Harikesh did, in fact, fall down completely and openly declared his offensive attitude toward Srila Prabhupad.     And, it was found that he was having affair with his female therapist.    I then got an email from one of the ISKCON gurus who apologized for having taken a stand against me.  He told me that NONE of the GBC saw Harikesh's total fall down coming.   They 'Believed' he just needed time off and would recover.  This devotee told me that what I wrote,  my analysis,  turned out to be Totally Correct.   He said the GBC really needed someone with such clear thinking to join them.   So, he asked me to consider becoming a GBC.  This devotee told me he would help push for this.   At the time, externally i was sitting on the fence on the rtivk issue,     but,   internally,  i knew the GBC was wrong on this issue.   What would be the use of becoming a member of the GBC one day,    only to be kicked off the next day when I tell them where I stood on this issue?    So, i declined the offer.

When Harikesh fell,   he took lots of BBT assets, money, etc., with him.    When the GBC tried to approach him about these things,   he threatened them with DEATH.  He threatened to Kill his own God brothers,   fellow Gurus, and GBC.   He told them he had connections with the Russia or Moscow Mafia.   Rather than Returning they money and assets he stole from Srila Prabhupad,   he demanded another $2 million in Black Mail money.   He threatened to bring the whole GBC down if they didn't comply.    In the end the GBC relented and GAVE another $2 million of Prabhupad's money to this snake.  

In his address to the GBC explaining their giving in to HK's extortion demands Hrdayananda told them that it wasn't all bad news.   He told them, in his jolly way,   that at least None of the Gurus or GBC were killed, and that even though they had to give Harikesh $2 Million     at least he agreed to give back to ISKCON the BBT books that he had stolen.   So, Hrdayananda boasted how ISKCON at least got 'something'.   

Got something?   they had already paid the the printing of those books,    now they had to pay additional black mail money on top of it.     This was pleasing to SP?     Why none of these spineless men didn't stand up and refuse to give this snake one cent,  and trust in Krishna to protect them?  And, if they got killed,   at least they would have been killed standing up for Srila Prabhupad.       Instead,   they paid Harikesh extortion,  protection money.  Not 'Their' money,   it wasn't 'Their' money to give,    they gave Srila Prabhupad's money.  So,   those GBC were just as guilty as Harikesh,   because they STOLE that 2 million from Srila Prabhupad to protect their own skin.     Hrdayananda didn't tell how many books they got back.    1 book,  or 100,000,    still,   the BBT had already paid for those books.   Paying 1 cent to HK was pure extortion money.    Why didn't they call in Interpol, or some other means to deal with this snake in the courts or in a legal way?   Why not charge him with the crimes he committed?   What did HK know that they didn't want him to tell?  

Then,   years later,   after I moved out of Alachua,   Harikesh moved there.    He was invited by his old friend Kirtiraj
I was totally appalled.  Kirtiraj was like GBC secretary under Harikesh,    so,   he invited Harikesh to come to Alachua.

Maybe Kirtiraj was trying to help his god brother,  maybe he was thinking that if HK comes he will associate again with his god brothers and mend his ways.    But, it is bringing a snake into a community which could wind up poisoning more devotees.  Until HK apologizes and tries to come back on his own,  inviting him could cause even more disaster.   

I was visiting Alachua some years back for festival and Harikesh showed up.  He recognized me and came up to me to talk 'old times'.  I was about to ask him if he had apologized for his raw offensive remarks he made to Srila Prabhupad, but, a devotee was there and saw what my intention was, and interrupted us, changed the topic and ushered me away.   He told me that no one can bring that topic up with Harikesh.  That when others had,    HK gets angry and spews out more offensive remarks.   Then what the HELL is the temple allowing such a snake to set foot on Prabhupad's temple property?    Srila Prabhupad had banned Nitai from coming to any temple,    he would have also more than banned this snake.   

Hare Krishna,    Ameyatma das

[mahasrnga dasa]

Hare Krsna prabhus, About a year ago I met Harikesh in Alachua and discussed the accusations Ameyatma wrote in his latest email.  We had about an hour discussion and it was quite interesting.  I brought up some of Ameyatma’s and other points as well. When I read the article today I forwarded it to Harikesh so at least we could hear his side of the story.  As we well know,  the GBC has excelled in the rumor mongering department so it’s always good to get two sides of any story. I don’t sit in judgment  here but am at least letting Harikesh tell his side of the story. Mahasrnga dasa Harikesh:

> Physical health,  Ok, i can agree to that.   One can push his body past the limit in executing devotional service that could lead to a break-down of one's physical health.     BUT,  I Totally Disagreed with the Bogus idea that pushing one's self to perform great Devotional Service could ever result in a Mental Breakdown.

I did not have a mental breakdown.  ISKCON and BBT insisted I go to psychiatrists in reference to a case against Hansadutta, so I went to two for their sake and both said I was in great shape considering what I had been through in the last 20 years.  I had a complete physical breakdown after I lost the means to continue to finance the child protection office, the education ministry, the Mayapur Project, give loans to women, small businesses, the Oxford project, and so on.

> > > At the time I wrote the GBC I was not, yet, a supporter of the Rtvik side, I was still sitting on the fence and wasn't sure which side was right.  And, at the time there was no news as to his affair with his female 'therapist', etc.

I did not have an affair.  I suppose an affair would include romance, sex, intimacy and all that.  This was not what I had.  The lady assisted me in getting through a tough time.

> > But, it was not too long after this that Harikesh did, in fact, fall down completely and openly declared his offensive attitude toward Srila Prabhupad.

I left ISKCON, as I have openly stated often and stated at that time, because of the child abuse, family destruction, repression of women, detachment of all devotees from themselves, exploitation of people, and the over dependence on money.  I found that the value structure that created all this came from Prabhupada, although he himself was not like that in his personal life.  This was my own personal conclusion and I did not attempt to have others agree with me.  I do speak about values that create stability and growth.  I do not have an offensive attitude to SP, but I disagree with the creation of values that allowed such abuse to take place.  I see him like my father and love him still, but I will not follow him.  I will choose in each situation what I feel is right.  I do not change my opinion of what is right because someone insists, "But Prabhupada said..."  If what he said is something I also agree with, then there is agreement, but if not, then not.  If someone thinks that is offensive, that is their opinion.  I think maintaining freedom of thought and te right to direct one's own life t is a more mature way of dealing with an absolute personality than blindly following, but that is just my opinion.

>  And, it was found that he was having affair with his female therapist.    I then got an email from one of the ISKCON gurus who apologized for having taken a stand against me.  He told me that NONE of the GBC saw Harikesh's total fall down coming.   They 'Believed' he just needed time off and would recover.

I might have returned to ISKCON if they had not thrown me out.  And again, there was no affair in anyone's definition of the term.

> > When Harikesh fell,   he took lots of BBT assets, money, etc., with him.

Totally and completely untrue.  Ask Jayadvaita Swami or Brahma Muhurta.

> When the GBC tried to approach him about these things,   he threatened them with DEATH.

Absolutely silly.

>  He threatened to Kill his own God brothers,   fellow Gurus, and GBC.

Absurd

>  He told them he had connections with the Russia or Moscow Mafia.   Rather than Returning they money and assets he stole from Srila Prabhupad,   he demanded another $2 million in Black Mail money.   He threatened to bring the whole GBC down if they didn't comply.    In the end the GBC relented and GAVE another $2 million of Prabhupad's money to this snake.

So foolish.  I find it amusing that people just say things, other people quote them, and an entire history is created and propagated.  None of you have any idea of what really happened and why.  Neither is it going to be interesting to explain it to you because you will simply not believe it.  You find it advantageous to believe a fantasy as it justifies your emotions.

> > In his address to the GBC explaining their giving in to HK's extortion demands Hrdayananda told them that it wasn't all bad news.   He told them, in his jolly way,   that at least None of the Gurus or GBC were killed, and that even though they had to give Harikesh $2 Million     at least he agreed to give back to ISKCON the BBT books that he had stolen.   So, Hrdayananda boasted how ISKCON at least got 'something'.

This is so bizarre I have no idea how to reply to it.  I have heard that other devotees at that time were very angry and upset and had made threatening remarks.  Some of them had their entire life stolen away during the strange times.  None of this had any connection or anything to do with me.  I was alone and trying to find some health, peace, and freedom from the ever increasing social chaos in ISKCON.  So if you are quoting something someone else said, it has nothing to do with me.  Nothing you state relates to me.

> > Got something?   they had already paid the the printing of those books,    now they had to pay additional black mail money on top of it.     This was pleasing to SP?     Why none of these spineless men didn't stand up and refuse to give this snake one cent,  and trust in Krishna to protect them?  And, if they got killed,   at least they would have been killed standing up for Srila Prabhupad.       Instead,   they paid Harikesh extortion,  protection money.  Not 'Their' money,   it wasn't 'Their' money to give,    they gave Srila Prabhupad's money.  So,   those GBC were just as guilty as Harikesh,   because they STOLE that 2 million from Srila Prabhupad to protect their own skin.     Hrdayananda didn't tell how many books they got back.    1 book,  or 100,000,    still,   the BBT had already paid for those books.   Paying 1 cent to HK was pure extortion money.    Why didn't they call in Interpol, or some other means to deal with this snake in the courts > or in a legal way?   Why not charge him with the crimes he committed?   What did HK know that they didn't want him to tell?

Perhaps because none of this happened they wisely considered that there was no case to make?  Somehow I think this story might refer to the situation with Hansadutta and the BBT cases, or else it is a figment of fertile imaginations.  But as far as me, there is no connection in any way.

> > Then,   years later,   after I moved out of Alachua,   Harikesh moved there.    He was invited by his old friend Kirtiraj > I was totally appalled.  Kirtiraj was like GBC secretary under Harikesh,    so,   he invited Harikesh to come to Alachua.

Coming to Gainesville had little to do with Kirtiraj.  He was not a main factor, there were many others.  But why can't I live where I want?

> > Maybe Kirtiraj was trying to help his god brother,  maybe he was thinking that if HK comes he will associate again with his god brothers and mend his ways.    But, it is bringing a snake into a community which could wind up poisoning more devotees.  Until HK apologizes and tries to come back on his own,  inviting him could cause even more disaster.

My oh My!  I think the author of this text should seek professional psychological assistance.  He has serious problems.  And do not fear for the devotees in Alachua.  I do not go there much, if ever, as there is little for me to do there.  I just visit with some friends now and then.  Nothing to fear!

> > I was visiting Alachua some years back for festival and Harikesh showed up.  He recognized me and came up to me to talk 'old times'.

Did I?  I do not recall.  The only old time would have been some work on some project you might have been involved in.

> I was about to ask him if he had apologized for his raw offensive remarks he made to Srila Prabhupad, but, a devotee was there and saw what my intention was, and interrupted us, changed the topic and ushered me away.   He told me that no one can bring that topic up with Harikesh.  That when others had,    HK gets angry and spews out more offensive remarks.

Certainly there were some things that required an apology and for them I have stated to those individuals directly. I do not get angry and spew anything and never have in the temple or elsewhere and I certainly do not speak offensively about Prabhupada.  I do state clearly, if someone asks me, that I do not follow him and although I love and certainly respect him I do not consider that I have to believe or do what he says.  I reserve the right to make my own decisions about what is right and wrong and take responsibility for my actions.  I find it hard to speak with people who are frozen in time and stuck to someone else's opinion. Besides, no one out there, except my friends who have discussed with me these various issues in full, knows the truth of what occurred and I have no interest in speaking with others about it.

> Then what the HELL is the temple allowing such a snake to set foot on Prabhupad's temple property?    Srila Prabhupad had banned Nitai from coming to any temple,    he would have also more than banned this snake.

Maybe so.  Who knows?  Are you able to speak on SP's behalf? So much hysteria in this letter all based on fictional events and fantasy.  As everyone believes what they want, there is little I can do to change it. > > Hare Krishna,    Ameyatma das Harikesha

[Srimukunda]

Hare Krishna,

These trash always come back.  In LA Ramesvara and Radhanatha are celebrities.  Ramesvara?!  Is he here looking for another 13 year old girl to date?  

All these demons make sick.  I can't even look at Drutakarma, his patented Iskcon scowl makes me want to pass stool every time I see him.  And he has taught this scowl to many iskconites.  They were it well.  I can always tell who the iskcon devotees in Vrindavana are, they are the ones frowning.

I guess serving the Lord causes them mental distress.

From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone 

[Bhakta Mark]

Dear Harikesh and forum readers.

You (HK) said...

"I left ISKCON, as I have openly stated often and stated at that time,
because of the child abuse, family destruction, repression of women,
detachment of all devotees from themselves, exploitation of people,

and the over dependence on money... ** I found that the value

structure that created all this came from Prabhupada, although he

himself was not like that in his personal life. ** .... This was my
own personal conclusion."

BM reply: To repeat your conclusion... "the value structure that

created all this came from Prabhupada"

So according to HK, Srila Prabhupada conveyed, fostered and inculcated
the values of child abuse, values that destroy families, "repress
women", the value of being "detached from one's self", the value of
exploiting people, and the value of being overly dependent on money.

I believe the burden of proof is on Harikesh to provide evidence to
back up these outrageous accusations.

HK said. "I do speak about values that create stability and growth."

BM reply: What values might those be? All I have seen so far is that
you value outrageous unsubstantiated slander. Not the sign of a
stable mind, and the only thing growing is your disrepute.

HK said. "I do not have an offensive attitude to SP"

BM reply. "Apparently you don't have a clue as to the definition of
offensive if you consider your accusations to be inoffensive."

HK said. "but I disagree with the creation of values that allowed

such abuse to take place.

BM reply: more rubbish

HK said: "I see him like my father and love him still, but I will not
follow him."

BM reply: If that is the way you treat your father who you love, I
would hate to be your enemy, but am willing to take that risk because
I actually care about Srila Prabhupada's memory and legacy.

HK said: "I will choose in each situation what I feel is right.

BM reply: Well that explains your unreasonable and offensive behavior
towards devotees and Srila Prabhupada which is always the result of
acting based on your feelings (emotion) instead of logic, reason, and
transcendental authority.

So there is another thing we know you value. (Choosing to act
impulsively based on what feels right). And your belief that such
would create stability or "growth" in a person's life is an erroneous
assertion, condemned by all reasonable men throughout time.

Get well soon Harikesh.

Your well wisher.

Mark

> Prabhupad's ...
>
> read more »

[Vidura Das]

Hare Krsna prabhu, pamho. AGTSP.

Interesting! Thank you.

Your Servant,

Vidura Das
 

---

Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:16:51 -0600
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Subject: Re: ex-puredevotee/infallible acarya/expansion of Krsna's mercy - Harikesa swami - selling a mansion of His:

[ameyatma]

Hare Krishna
 
Mahasringha, please forward this (and if there is another,  my next email to Harikesh)

I have to leave on a trip shortly, and don't have time to research further,  and only limited time to write this.   If later, i can get access to the original emails, we are speaking of 13 or so years ago,  i will write another email, just to show that what i wrote, none of it I personally made up. 

I am also a strong believer in hearing both sides of a story, and I, myself, have been the victim of horrendous rumor mongering, so I know what its like to be caught in the crosswinds.   In this case, I admit failing to do so. failing to hear both sides of the story.   And, unfortunately I do not have easy access to previous emails from so long ago to show where I got the stories from.   I may, or may not, have made back up archives of those emails, I have lost hard disks several times, and once lost both a main drive and back up drive the same time.  Even if I have made copies,  how to access them and how to find the exact emails,   i may not have the time to do so. 

But, many of the quotes I got from emails that were supposedly from the GBC.  However, if I recall, those emails were sent to a handful of us from a devotee who claimed to be part of the European BBT who had access to COM.  The European BBT ISKCON communications dept.   We got emails that were supposedly from the GBC conference.   However, in looking back,  it 'could be' that someone was sending us exagerated versions, or made up stories, for what ever their motive, (maybe a disgruntled disciple of HK?) and making them appear to be from the GBC.   But, at the time, we thought the emails genuine and were from the GBC conference.      The email regarding the $2 million,  and Hrdayananda's address to the GBC was presented to us as being directly from the GBC COM conference, with all the COM headers, etc.   Maybe those of us who got those emails were being duped?     We were involved in other dealings with the GBC at the time on the topic of VAD and women's issues at the time.  We were also victims of a COM email smear.   So, maybe there was some connection?

I recall seeing quotes that were attributed to Harikesh, and I recall that some were very offensive.   However, i cannot recall them exactly to quote from them.  

However, hearing from his side, I have softened my hard view of the issue.  

In short, however,   If I have been the victim of rumor and hearsay,  then I do sincerely apologize to Harikesh.  Even if not, due to his reply I do owe him an apology.  And to the devotees whom I wrote on this list, for propagating aspects of this story that may not be as I stated.   Again, I didn't make up any aspect myself, but, if they were not true allegations, I apologize for propagating what may be false or exagerated claims. 

The incident when we spoke in Alachua,    yes,   I did not broach the topic with him,   and so, I did not see a response from him,   and I just can't recall now who it was that took me aside and told me that HK gets angry and spews offensive remarks when this was brought up.  Again, i didn't make that part up,  it was what i was told,    but,  i do have to say I did not experience HK speaking offensively myself, or getting angry, etc.  That was simply what someone else told me.   Too bad we didn't speak more on the topic.  

Of course, were there is smoke there is fire.  I cannot recall the exact quotes that I deemed were greatly offensive by Harikesh,  so I can't say more unless I can find those old emails, but they seemed to have been much more then what he explains now.

And, yet, what he explains now is offensive in the following context.  Harikesh says here that he sees Prabhupad like his father and still loves him, but he 'will not follow him'.    Then, his so called 'love' for Prabhupad is nothing but empty sentiment.  Guru means his Teachings,  his Vani.  To love Prabhupad, you must follow his Teachings.   Otherwise, it is simply sentimental feelings.  

One reason why this is offensive is because you are an initiated disciple of HDG.  We took vows to follow Srila Prabhupad.  That was an exchange between ourselves and Srila Prabhupad.  We took a vow to Follow his teachings,   and he agreed to be our Teacher and Guide and take up back to Krishna.   Prabhupad did not come to us as our sentimental father figure, he came as our Teacher and Guide.  Thus, to follow him we must follow his teachings.    If, after so many years, one feels they made a mistake,   that they no longer want to agree with what SP taught,   then, they have broken their vow to Srila Prabhupad.    Obviously, Hari Kesh has rendered far more service to Srila Prabhupad then I ever will,    but, we cannot compromise on our philosophic understanding.    Technically speaking,   when someone breaks their vows to their guru, the guru is no longer obligated to continue to take that person as his disciple, and no longer obligated to take them back home, back to Krishna.   But, in the end, these are personal choices.  That is,   Srila Prabhupad can, and may still take HariKesh back home,   he may continue to give his mercy, based on his previous services.    A fall down on the path,  made by one who was at one time very sincere, is simply a temporary condition,       so, it depends on the depth of HK's sincerity in the past.  

HK wants to, today, maintain his Independence, his 'Freedom of Thought',   but, when we took our vows of agreeing to become SP's disciples, we agreed to give up that so-called freedom.    When we reject our side of the contractual vows,   SP is no longer obligated to fulfill his side.  

But, as far as blaming SP and his teachings on the ills that befell the society,   to this, obviously,  i do not agree,  cannot and would welcome a more in depth debate with him on these topics.   Such as the 'supression of women' issue.   

It appears that you are placing blame for the ill fate of the women, and child abuse on Srila Prabhupad.  Blaming his teachings for what took place.   It reminds me of a conversation I had with Laxmimoni in 1993 regarding getting the girls married at young age.  Srila Prabhupad taught that the girls are to be married at young age.   Laxmimoni insisited, "Not my girls".  Laxmimoni then claimed that what SP taught in that regard FAILED in the West.  She claimed those cultural aspects of his teachings were tried here in the West and 'They' failed.   As an example she cited what took place in New Vrndaban under Kirtananda.  She claimed that at one point there were many unwed young girls and the fathers of the girls quoted Prabhupad saying the girl is to be married at young age.  So, they were asking Kirtananda what should be done.   Laxmimoni told me that Kirtananda then made arrangements for ALL the girls,   and got them married, following, she said, Srila Prabhupad's teachings on the matter.   Then, within 2-4 years she said most all of those marriages ended in total failure.  She said that most of the girls were left with small children and no husband/fathers.    She said the whole thing was a disaster and that the young girls are the ones who suffered the most.    So, citing this example she was adamant that those aspects of Vedic culture were not possible to implement in the West. She claimed that she and other devotees had to devise other ways...   rather then to follow what SP taught, we had to selectively reject those aspects that failed and come up with some other acceptable system on our own, separate from what SP taught.       When she and I had this conversation I had no knowledge of the incident she referred to in New Vrndaban, but told her I could not accept the idea that Vedic culture or what Prabhupad taught was the cause of the failures.  I told her this should be researched to find out what really took place. 

By Krishna's arrangement, a few years later I was in LA and met a devotee who was one of the leaders of New Vrndaban during the time of the failed marriages.  I brought this story up to him and asked him what he knew about all those failed marriages?  I told him why it was important to find out what really happened, and on hearing my explanation he agreed that the real truth should be told.  But, he asked me not to mention his name, as he feared retaliation from those involved, the children and their parents.   What he told me was that at the time the parents wanted to get these girls married Kirtananda had these grand illusions that all the young men would become an army of young sannyasis, like Srila Prabhupad had.  He wanted that all the young men would take sannyas and help him spread his preaching all over the world.   So, he didn't want the boys to get married.  But, since the parents of the girls were insisting he said that Kirtananda devised a plan.  His plan was to get the girls married,  which meant getting the boys married,   but, doing it in such a way as to Guarantee the marriages would all FAIL.  He WANTED their marriages to fail.   Why?  Because his plan was that all these young men would flee married life and come running to him to take sannyas and form his army of young sannyasis.    

So, how did he assure all the marriages would fail?   He went through an elaborate process.  He collected all the bio info on all the boys and girls,   and had astrological charts done.  He had each answer questionaires to determine their personalities and likes and dislikes, etc.   He did everything very scientifically,    BUT,    he did everything just the OPPOSITE of what should be done.  He then sat down with this devotee who was telling me all this and he went through each devotee and selected the WORSE possible mis-matches...   Rather then matching up the girls to the best possible mate,    he made the worse possible selection.    He wanted that the marriages fail.   The devotee who told me all this said that he feared if the parents and the girls and boys who suffered this fate were to find out his involvement they may come after him for retaliation.  He said that at the time, he saw Kirtananda as a pure devotee and he thought he plan was 'transcendental',  he was thinking that, yeah, married life is a fall down, so he supported the idea of helping to see all these marriages fail.  But, afterward, especially on seeing the suffering of the girls, and the community,  he realized how horrible it was, and wanted to tell someone what really happened, but was afraid to do so.    

Kirtananda Purposefully took actions to see that these devotee's lives were made as miserable as possible.  He purposefully wanted their married lives to be misserable and to fail.   He purposefully wanted the lives of these young girls to be misserable, he wanted them to suffer.   Compare this to Srila Prabhupad,  to how he was so compassionate and only wanted that everyone NOT suffer....    

The reprocussions are horrible to think about.  What about all the babies, the children, born of those failed marriages.   Growing up with single mothers, no fathers,  remarried mothers, etc.    His plan was diabolic.   It was sinister.  It was, in my view,  worse then even the murder of Sulocan,  it was evil at its base.     How could anyone take such elaborate action to assure all those young boys and girls would suffer in abusive and miserable marriages?    What sort of person could purposefully do this?    It was sinister at best.  
(email me privately if anyone is interested in learning who this person was who told me this, but, he was one of Kirtananda's right hand men at the time) -   Personally,   I do not want this information to remain secret,   just to protect one person -  while the victims are prevented from learning the real truth.    The truth is more important for the long term future of Prabhupad's mission. 

The point of this, however, is that Laxmimoni was claiming that it was Vedic Culture and Srila Prabhupad's teachings that had Failed in the West, and cited this incident as evidence. She was convinced that these girls suffered because we had tried to follow Prabhupad's teachings.  She was convinced that it was Prabhupad's teachings that failed.    Now, I have written like this once before and it got back to Laxmimoni and she got upset that i was depicting her as one who rejected SP's teachings,   but, this is what she did.   Based on this she purposefully set up her ashram to Avoid following Prabhupad's teachings on this aspect.    Yet, in the end,    it was not Vedic culture or Prabhupad's teachings that failed.   Rather,    it proved that when astrology and Vedic culture is mis-used and applied to opposite end,   it also works.     The thing is,   Vedic Culture and Prabhupad did NOT FAIL in the West.      WE    Prabhupad's disciples,   WE FAILED.     We failed to implement his teachings properly.

It wasn't the implementation of Prabhupad's teachings that has caused suffering by members of ISKCON,  it was the incorrect, incomplete or totally wrong implementation of those teachings that failed.     Srila Prabhupad is Krishna's pure representative and what he taught was coming directly from Krishna.  What he taught is infalliable,    what has failed is our understanding of what he gave us,  and our implementation of it.      Someday, we, future followers of Prabhupad, will get it right, and Prabhupad's teachings will be applied properly and the proper result will manifest.    

HK has his opinion in this regard,   and this is my opinion.    

I have to run,   so, in conclusion,   Please accept my fallen obeisances.   I am not without fault,  not at all.   I am full of faults,   and if, in my puffed up and fallen nature have offended any of you,   or Harikesh,   i apologize.   I won't ask for forgiveness because I am a rascal and don't deserve it.   But, i do apologize for my incompetence, my fallen nature and my faults, which are many.  

aspiring to become a worthy and humble servant of the followers of Srila Prabhupad,
ameyatma das

[Suvyakta Narasimha Dasa]

This is on http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/interview-with-hari/

Interview with Hari

March 21, 2011 by Vrajabhumi

This is an interview I just had over email with former ISKCON guru Harikesha Swami, aka Robert Campagnola, who now goes mostly by Hari. Since leaving ISKCON in 1998 he has lived mostly in Florida. He also spends a good amount of time in Eastern Europe, playing live music, giving talks to groups of people on mysticism and spirituality, as well as giving interviews with a variety of media who are interested in what he has to say.

Hari was one among the first group of disciples of the founder of ISKCON (The Hare Krishna society which started in New York City in 1966) A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, to take on the role of official initiating guru after Swami Prabhupada left this world in 1977. Along with 10 others, Hari took on a role in the society similar to what Swami Prabhupada had held. The main difference being that each of the 11 new gurus were assigned different areas of the world where they were in charge of ISKCON as: “God’s representative on Earth.” Hari was assigned Eastern and Northern Europe, which at that time were some of the least successful areas for ISKCON. I think the dominant leaders of ISKCON gave him the lesser developed areas to be in charge of because he wasn’t seen as a team player, i.e. eager to do whatever they wanted.

Unbeknown to everyone at that time, it wouldn’t be long until the communist bloc opened up and then fell apart — with Eastern Europe opening up to Hare Krishna devotees. What happened next was unexpected as well, Krishna consciousness grew explosively fast and was embraced more so in Eastern Europe than anywhere else in the world outside of India. Northern Europe was also growing. What had started out as looking for a way to shuffle Hari off to no-mans land, ended up making Hari the most successful guru in ISKCON — success being determined by the number of followers joining, the number of books sold, and the amount of wealth being accumulated. He was literally being treated and worshiped like a God by thousands of people.

Then he left, pushed out by other leaders who saw a chance to take what he had helped to build up.
This is his story.

V: When you left ISKCON it seemed that the leaders were trying to portray you as having a chemical imbalance. They said you had “gone off your meds,” they were also saying you were literally mentally incompetent. They actually tried to have you committed to a psychiatric hospital. When I read your side of the story, which you wrote at that time, it became obvious that there was in fact nothing wrong with you at all. Instead it was obvious you had simply lost faith in Prabhupada’s ideology and had set out to change that which you saw as damaging to so many — especially women and children. It appeared that the ISKCON leadership was afraid of you. You had the most disciples (close to 50% of ISKCON membership at that time) and the most money — therefore the most influence. Because of that they decided to try to discredit your change of faith by portraying you as having lost your mind.

Now, with hindsight, would you have done anything differently with how you revealed your loss of faith to your followers and your desire to change ISKCON?

Hari: To properly answer this question, I first have to understand what it is that I wanted at that time and to see it in the context of what I want now. When I look back in time, I do so from the perspective of the present. Therefore, how I presently feel or think; more importantly, what I value and how I see myself in relation to others, is the most important part of this exercise. Thus the events and people of the past are far less important in my analysis of that time than is my present state of consciousness. This is both obvious and not at all obvious at the same time. If I take your question from the obvious, then the answer should also be obvious. Naturally, I have thought about what happened and should have ideas about how I could have improved my responses to the chaos around me. Yet, considering the not obvious aspect of hindsight, why should I? If I at present have no desire to worry about followers nor any desire to change ISKCON, why would I wish to change my actions? As this is my present state of mind, I find it impossible to answer your question. Others have asked me if there was anything I would have done differently from that time in 1998 and I have considered it. There is only one event I would have avoided if do-overs were allowed in life and that is a conversation I had with Brahma Muhurta in August of that year. It was a product of my intense frustration at having been dealt with like I was. As everything else has worked out as it has, I can live with all the other events.

Before it is seen that I do not care about people or that I am unconcerned about the inequities in the socio-political aspects of ISKCON that have far greater impact on people than its spirituality ever did, let me explain.

I do not think ISKCON can change in the fundamental manner required to “satisfy” my requirements for a sane and effective spiritual institution. I do not think that one form of stating my personal philosophical transformation is superior to another and therefore I do not think that any communication I would have had with former disciples at that time would have been superior (in some abstract or even realistic sense) than another. My conclusions were directly opposed to everything that was held as sacred by all within the institution. Here are some examples:

·         I do not think it is possible to combine a socio-political organization and pure spirituality. It is quite possible, although not certain, that the term “spiritual organization” is an oxymoron in the sense that the elements required for a proper organization are more or less opposed to personal spiritual development in a relevant, meaningful and considerate manner. Unless the organization has the historical culture and capacity to work within the varna-ashrama context, it cannot succeed. And since this WAS only possible in India, in the distant past, how will this occur at all today?

·         Considering the above point, I concluded there is no way to change ISKCON to something that interests me. I was attempting to gradually implement social reform in ISKCON and specifically to create a more or less ideal community model in Mayapur, but that was short circuited by my inability to handle the reality of the movement.

·         I only care about people. I see whenever there is organization, there is inequity and conflict. I also see the only hope to resolve this on a truly meaningful level is to have people live in a village context and to have their own spiritual beliefs that they demonstrate in whatever manner they desire. To this end, I attempt to offer them the tools to do this.

·         I do not believe in “guru” and find the concept to be at the root of the problems facing those who remain in ISKCON. Although the concept is touted as the grand solution to all problems, I see it as the root cause of the problems. How could I think of myself as a guru with followers with this vision? I could not. Considering this, the best thing I could do to initiate the process of freeing “followers” from the curse of following is to let them go. Those who have “come back,” do so because they like what I say and find that it assists them in their own lives. I make no demands on them and have no expectations from them. I offer what I offer to them freely. If they like it, they take it, if they do not, they do something else. I am happy with this.

So to now answer your question in a context that is relevant to the present:

I would do nothing differently. I would not consider changing anything. I would not attempt to “break the news” in any other manner than the extremely limited manner I had at my disposal at the time. Considering that I was removed from ISKCON forcibly and that all my possibility to communicate with those I knew through the COM system (the only communication available at the time) was blocked, what could I have said anyway? And since the world was awash with strange statements about me that had little or nothing to do with me, why would I waste my valuable time trying to prove that I was not a thief, I was not a crook, I was not dependent on drugs, I was not a lusty madman or whatever? How would it have mattered? I mean, for anyone who actually knew me, these ideas were exceedingly questionable. Those who cared should have asked me about my own reality. For those who did not, they were ready to believe anything they heard if it fit their existing conceptions of gurus or gbc.

And yes, it is possible that someone can go suddenly nuts, especially in ISKCON due to the fundamentalist system and the repressive atmosphere. I mean, anyone with a heart who looked at what happened to the children, how husbands and wives saw loving relationships as stepping stones to degradation, how children were blank slates to be programmed by child abusers, and how individuals were merely means to an end without much regard for their personal needs, all within the context of a sophisticated corporate environment, would have also lost their mind. One found the mind after leaving the organization. Therefore, the news that someone left the movement because they lost their mind is old news as this is the reason everyone left. Drugs, sex, madness — these make good headlines in a repressed organization. So be it.

I can do nothing to change it. So I do not try. I simply am what I am and do what I can do and what I want to do. I enjoy doing what I do. I cannot tolerate stress so I avoid stressing others. I am not in anyone’s employ as I am not controlled by other’s money. I do not have to be nice to my donors, yet, I am nice as I am a nice person ;-). I can be nice and care about people because that is how I feel. I am not saying that no one in ISKCON now shares this ideal because I do not know if they do or not and frankly I do not care.

V: We know somewhat the history of ISKCON after the departure of Prabhupada, but there is a big blank space for most people when it comes to how the original gurus came to gain their positions. Could you shed some light on what happened? Who and how the decisions were made in creating the new succession of gurus from Prabhupada’s cadre of leaders?

Hari: I can share with you my personal story as I do not know all that much about the story of others. I promise you this is a correct version of my personal history. Obviously it is from my own point of view. I do not present this as objective reality. All history is simply a compilation of events from the point of view of the dominant voices at the time. History is not neutral, neither objective.

Sometime in the spring or so of 1977, Bhaktibhusana Swami (who at that time was still Sucandra das) received a letter from Prabhupada that said something like, “… and Harikesa Swami can initiate the more sincere of those as he likes..” or something like that. The letter should be in Folio, if Folio still exists and if it was not edited out. He came into my office and showed me the letter. We were totally bewildered as we could not understand what it meant. It was inconceivable at the time that Prabhupada would die (as I would not allow that) and therefore there was no relevance to anyone other than him initiating anyone. So I said we should not worry about this and perhaps it was some kind of mistake or there was more to it, but we should wait to see if there was a further communication. As the letter was not to me, I did not consider it further. I knew that if Prabhupada wanted me to do something he would tell me directly.

Approximately one month later, I received an official letter from Tamal Krsna Goswami, counter-signed by Prabhupada, that said that in the near future he would be picking some disciples to initiate on his behalf as he wished to do that less. This letter is also certainly part of the public record. Some time later I received another official letter with a list of names on it of those who were supposed to initiate disciples as they wished without having to get approval for it. My name was on it.

I received no further information than that. There was no training for what was to come, no instructions. It was thrown at me. Despite this letter, I refused to believe that Prabhupada would die and leave us alone. Then he did.

I went to Bombay in January of 1979. I met with Pradyumna as he and I were very close friends. I asked him what he thought about this situation. He said that in the Gaudiya Math they had a small mat on the floor on a very short platform (maybe 1″) and there was little distinction between godbrothers who all received equal respect. Initiation was something relevant to arcana, deity worship, and the disciple would have a very small photo that was placed on the altar during puja and removed afterwards. I thought that this was a great principle and it would be the very best thing for us to do as it would avoid envy and interpersonal rivalry that must appear when there is a large difference between godbrothers. I felt confident that we could deal with the situation using this information.

I arrived for the GBC meeting a month later. The mood was solemn and the tension palpable. I was very uncomfortable. Unfortunately, at that time I had not yet learned the art of patience in dealing with groups like the GBC. In my youthful idealism, I truly felt they would embrace truth and practicality. It took me a few years to figure out that truth was not easily found in this group and effective practicality was rarely considered. Like all political organizations, there were multiple currents overt and covert that manipulated decision making. I could not tolerate politics, neither could I associate myself with any particular grouping as I have always been an individualist who wished to be his own person. The only time in my life I allowed this to change was in my respect for and devotion to Prabhupada and to a large extent he accommodated and facilitated my individuality.

Back to my impatience. The initial comments in the room indicated to me there was a serious potential for conflict. It scared me, yet I felt confident that Pradyumna’s advice would save the day and give everyone room to breathe. So I presented this scenario of the limited guru to the GBC. For reasons far too complex to explain here, it was received with confusion and disregard. Perhaps some thought they did indeed want to be larger than life while others thought they should also be able to be a guru even though they were not on the list? Perhaps they disputed the list itself? I cannot say since I could not conceive of these hidden issues at that time. I was 29 years old.

Can you imagine this? I took Sannyas when I was 28. Later that year, just after my 29th birthday, I became a GBC and BBT trustee. A few months later a full fledged initiating guru in a global society that was (certainly! without a doubt!) the true and only true representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead on this Earth! My God! Think about it. 29.

I am now 63. I cannot imagine it happening to me now, what to speak of then. But youth has a way to overlook the consequences of actions and to dream of a pleasant future. Ah, youth!

Well, as usual, my comments acted as a catalyst after they were tossed aside as irrelevant. Very intense discussions followed and I attempted to say that any solution other than the one I presented had too many pitfalls to be viable. Guru Krpa Swami spoke and emotionally said that we did not know what to do as we were too young. Prabhupada had said to him that we should go to HH Sridhar Maharaj, Prabhupada’s Godbrother, to get advice on what to do. There was some discussion with most agreeing. I was vehemently against this as I knew what Prabhupada felt about him and knew that he had a strong inclination to disrupt Maths. Guru Krpa said, “Is this not true Tamal?” To this, Tamal looked down to the floor and nodded affirmatively. I freaked out. Jayatirtha, the chairman at the time, called the vote. All hands went up. He proclaimed, “It is unanimous!” I shouted out, “Take the no votes.” He said why should he as everyone was in favor. I said, “Take the no votes because I want to go down in history as the only one against this insane resolution!” Jayatirtha said, “No’s?” After my hand went strongly in the air, he derided, “Now you can go down in history.”

So a delegation went off on a ferry to the venerable Swami. And he said that there are two kinds of people, the guru and the non-guru. Non-guru can never tell guru what to do because they are in a totally different category. Guru is above all managerial principles; connected directly to the Supreme. Guru needs his own house as guru is like a father in a family. Guru needs a high vyasasan to display his superior position, and so on. And in Vrindavan, where there is a common interest, there should be a group photo on the altar of all gurus. Godbrothers must support guru. He called all gurus as acaryas and implied directly that the “Acarya Board” will be superior to GBC.

And since it was the resolution, this was accepted in its essence although it was slightly modified in its description to the outside world.

I do not wish to start telling you how I felt during this meeting, neither how I saw the implications or ramifications of this implementation. I was worried enough of being in the position of either remaining against the entire GBC or going along with it. Very troublesome. It is important to me to maintain a balanced outlook on things so I can relate to the largest number of people. So I took the position of being the loyal opposition and remained so for many years until I just accepted that this was the way it was in 1984. I regret surrendering to this because right after I stopped fighting it great conflict started and I was dragged into it.

Back to history. Now the GBC was divided and within it was the Acarya Board that met to discuss what to do about this situation and how to avoid civil war. For reasons I cannot understand, Satsvarupa Maharaj, who at the time was looked upon as being learned, wrote the paper that was presented to the society. Again, I was the only one against the paper. I said it was simplistic and did not address the needs of Godbrothers and GBC. I was not heard. He presented the paper and was hammered with questions, none of which he could answer to the satisfaction of those who were angered by the paper.

So the root of the entire problem with dealing with Prabhupada’s untimely demise was this idiotic idea to go to a person who was famous within Gaudiya Math for being a breaker of form and a destroyer of the Maths. And in one short meeting he set the scene for the ruination of peace in ISKCON by dividing the house against itself, placing young men in an elitist position far beyond the control of any other organization, and destroying the organization’s capacity to correct the situation later on. He set everyone into camps and as we all know, camps tend to fight for supremacy. Well, the rest is more or less known.

V: Are you still in contact with old ISKCON leaders either in or out of their positions? e.g. ex-gurus like Bhagavan — who has recently been speaking out in ways which immediately reminded me of the ideas and mood of what you have written in the past and present.

Hari: I am not in contact with Bhagavan as we were not friends before. I have met a few others with whom I had a friendship previously. I enjoy being with friends.

As my lectures and some writings are available on harimedia.net, anyone can read it. But that others might come to a similar conclusion is not unusual as most of it is quite obvious and mainly common sense.

V: What have you been doing since leaving ISKCON? I know you’ve been involved with a lot of music, that you’re a talented guitarist and sing with a band. I also know that you have an online sangha, and an online radio show, and that you visit ex-followers in Eastern Europe. Can you shed some light on your current spiritual thoughts, and also your experiences with sharing your post-ISKCON music, ideas and philosophy?

Hari: I feel that we are spiritual energy that pervades our body and consciousness. We are not simply a dot of spirit encased by matter and absorbed in maya. I think that we can contact our own spiritual essence and energy by simply accepting our own energy. As our energy and the energy of the divine are one, we can easily connect to the divine by feeling our own spiritual frequency and tuning to that same frequency in the divine through our intention in focused concentration. I feel that the main thing blocking our direct connection to the divine, to Radha and Krsna, is our acceptance of the blinding principle that we are not good enough and therefore we cannot do so. I reject the idea that the most important principle is to understand the difference between ourselves and the Supreme. I embrace the idea wholeheartedly that we are one in energy with the divine and true communion with the divine takes place when the interests of the lover and the beloved become one so that the distinction between them no longer matters. Purified oneness. There is indeed only One of Us as by this communion we create an Us. When we experience the spiritual being we are, experience the essence we are, and tune ourselves to the spiritual energy of the divine, we embrace the divine with full love. In this sharing of love we become a third entity, so to speak, an Us where the lover and beloved become one in essence.

ISKCON people find this idea bewildering as they are trained to concentrate on the difference. I say the difference does not bring bliss, only the oneness. We are one and different. The different does not mean we are worse or not good enough. It means that we are individuals who can find the one by accepting it. When we find the oneness between ourselves and the divine we find connection and the loving relationship we long for.

thank you.

have fun

V: Thank you for your time and energy. If anyone wants to hear Hari’s music (new age jazz fusion) or listen to his talks and interviews, or speak with him on his forum or live shows — go to his websites:

 

 

From: ameyatma [mailto:amey...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 3:13 AM
To: mahasrnga dasa
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Subject: Re: ex-puredevotee/infallible acarya/expansion of Krsna's mercy - Harikesa swami - selling a mansion of His:

 

Hare Krishna

[mahasrnga dasa]

Hare Krsna Prabhus, I'm not sure if anyone is interested or not but here's the latest exchange from Harikesh in regard to Ameyatma's letter.  Any feedback and I'll do the needful. Mahasrnga dasa Dear Maha   Due to the format of your email I cannot reply inside the text.  This will make it far harder for me to comment and since time is limited I will address his main issue with me.  This reply has become interesting for me so I might also post it in my forum...   ****   I hear about how I threatened the GBC.  I did not threaten any individual GBC man and none of them can say so honestly.  Threatening the GBC body is meaningless as it only exists as an idea or an ever changing group that meets once a year to create resolutions after long discussions and great expense, even if it is registered in Calcutta.  Demanding money from the GBC at that time is utterly absurd as they had no money to demand.  Why would I demand money from those who did not have it to give?   What most people do not understand, is that whatever money was gotten was obtained through a group of householders who earned it.  I was a member of that group.  I assisted them to use that money in a very wonderful way for the sake of ISKCON and the Mayapur Project by determining which projects would greatest benefit from funding.  I did not take it for my personal gain.  During my health crisis and my transformation of awareness, other persons assumed ownership of money that was neither theirs, neither theirs to determine how it was used.  Besides my having nothing and barely finding a way to eat (no I was not starving), I had no control over how these funds were to be used.  This was a source of agitation not only to me, but to those others who were intimate partners in the creation and use of those funds.  The anger and agitation this caused was boundless.  Our main purposes with these funds was to repair the damage created by the way in which children were dealt, the repression of women, families and devotees, and the creation of a comprehensive social community development project in Mayapur that would address these issues in a meaningful and practical manner to create a viable model for ISKCON.  It was for this reason alone that those who worked to create the money from Non-ISKCON funds allowed me to use it for the greater good.  From the start it was declared that the money was not ISKCON money although we would use it for the sake of ISKCON.  Now I do understand that this declaration might be disputed as some think that any and all funds any leader or even individual creates within ISKCON belong to ISKCON (are all of you living as if all that you have belongs to ISKCON?  No?  Well, then you share the same mentality as those who created the funds in the first place) but that is not how we saw it and we openly stated it without opposition.  Indeed, the ISKCON GBC's Minister of Finance was Naveen Krsna das at that time.  During multiple meetings he attended it was frankly and clearly stated that what we gave to ISKCON projects was a donation, was conditional on it being used in certain ways, and the funds did not belong to ISKCON neither would we accept ISKCON management or decision making over them.  He not only accepted this, he embraced it at that time as he also felt ISKCON was mismanaged and had its priorities all screwed up.  I was upset with Naveen for many years for not defending me against all the accusations that were leveled at me for stealing until I met him many years later and he explained he left ISKCON right after I did and therefore there was no one left who knew the actual situation of the creation and management of these funds except those who desired to usurp the funds for their own purposes.   Now the important point is that I did indeed want to get back whatever money remained after a large portion of it was lost for various reasons.  I will not go into the details because most of these individuals involved are still living (except the most mismanaged of them all and I do not like to speak badly about the dead), and I respect their privacy and their situations.  In short, they felt that they were being cheated out of everything they had and ISKCON was using it.  I find it fascinating that the rumour created in ISKCON is that I stole from it or I wanted it to give me money.  In reality, quite the opposite occurred and this is the reason there was so much anger on the part of the Russians and Armenians involved.  It was money they created and although they joined with me in using it for the greater good, they did not divorce themselves from it as they were minute by minute active participants in the fund.   I created a foundation to insure that the funds would be managed if I were to die or to be incapacitated.  Naturally I could not have conceived of what did occur.  Using what I created as an excuse to usurp the money (indeed, money rules all things in ISKCON) the managers I appointed invoked a clause that said if I did not follow the faith, I could be removed as the founder of the trust.  Now I found myself trapped in a web of my own creation.  This was a very difficult situation for me, but it was far more difficult for those who had lost everything due to the cheating of one (now deceased) individual who later was to be embraced by ISKCON management.  Now on top of that loss, our funds were now being usurped by a group of people who had nothing to do with its creation.  Although these persons who created the money were trustees on the fund, they were rapidly removed simply because they agreed with me.   Now we had a situation were real theft took place.  And to deal with that real anger was used.  We saw at that time that the money was going to be used in ways that we did not agree.  And indeed it was.  Because these new owners did not share my vision, as they are mainly managers who do not have an expanded understanding of how to benefit a lot of people with funds, they naturally used it in financially expedient ways that did not continue the ideals of the trust.  Although they had not yet done this when I got angry at them, I saw that this would occur due to their personal nature and the manner in which they insulted and dealt with me.  I was not only insulted, deeply insulted, but I saw that whatever was remaining would also be lost due to their choices.    So I tried to change it in the only way I could at that time.  Not only not successful, my anger did not represent who I am as a person and how I really feel about these individuals.  After all, these leaders of the trust were people I loved deeply and trusted totally.  One only gets that angry with people who you love and trust as your own family and whose betrayal of everything you worked for was unexpected, impossible to believe, and as cruel as you could imagine, or at least that is how I felt at that time.  Now I see it is obvious considering their personal quality and inability to deal with others, but that is another issue.  I also understand that my own sudden and unexpected transformation shocked them and therefore they struggled to find a cause.  They could only understand that I was insane.  I regret that neither they, nor any authority in ISKCON bothered to take the time to deeply understand the situation or what I was going through.     The manner in which the others who felt intensely cheated by a group of their own peers who they now considered as insignificant thieves, is legend.  Their anger and actions are not related to me, were not invoked by me, neither were they encouraged by me.  Indeed, I did not even know what they did or said and to this day I do not know the full story as I do not wish to hear it as it just increases my sadness.  It is what it is.  Neither I, neither those with whom those funds were created are thieves.  How can you steal what is rightfully yours?  Not only is there no fault in it, but since we did not succeed to get back the funds, there is also no act to discuss.   Angry words aside, look at the actions.  Who took what from whom?  But to determine this requires an open mind, a clear heart, and a desire.  As all of these factors are missing, you all shall possibly continue to create a straw man and hang him.  So be it.   I think most of you all, meaning those God Brothers and others who are still extremely upset with me, are having the most trouble with me stating what I did about Prabhupada.  I think money is an excuse to rationalize your anger.  So let me address that.   My reasoning and logic behind my departure is difficult for others to understand for a few reasons.  As I am the only one who knew all the factors involved, I am uniquely qualified to comprehensively understand it.  However rational and reasonable my point of view might be, it will seem otherwise to those who do not share my experiences and conclusion.  Everyone has to determine their own truth in their own way over time.  Therefore, I will avoid getting into detailed recounting of the thought process that lead me to reach the conclusion I did.  I think all of you are expert at discussing the past, so my input into it would probably not enhance that exchange.   Yet there is an important point to be made here.  I remember during those darker days when I decided that I could not follow any longer, Abhirama came to see me.  He asked me why I felt as I did, so I told him.  He said something interesting and I remember it always and it is the reason that I avoid anything that presents Prabhupada in a negative light.  Indeed, anyone doing so in my forum is deleted.  He said, "Even if there were faults in Prabhupada, I do not wish to hear them as it hurts my heart as all I have left is my loving memory and I want to preserve it as it is."  That deeply impressed me and I always consider this when I speak.   One can go on for hours about how I do not represent Gaudiya Vaisnavism, am not a proper devotee, that I break all the basic understandings about guru and disciple, and so on.  To this I reply, no contest.  I do not attempt to defend myself as a devotee, even though I am a vegan who does Deity worship and probably follow more principles than a large number of Alachuans (again, only because I like to, not because I have to).  I state clearly that I am not a "devotee" in the ISKCON sense of the word.  I am not a follower of Prabhupada.  I do not believe in the present day concept of guru at all. I think we can serve others by being mentors to them, by facilitating their growth and development, and by sharing our personal experiences and realization to assist their spiritual evolution.  I do not believe in "guru" because the word has so many ancillary implications that demand far more from an individual than is advantageous for them.  Again, this is my own opinion.  I think so, and I am not in a closet.  When it comes to sastra, that part that resonates with me is fine with me, but there are aspects of it that do not resonate with me, so I do not bother with it. I embrace the essence of bhakti.  So there is little to be accomplished proving that I am not a follower as again, no contest: I am not a follower.  To state that is wrong according to sadhu-sastra-guru is correct, yet who really cares?  Not sure what you are trying to state here.  Do you wish me to apologize?  To who and for what?  Are you God? Are you Prabhupada?  Who would I apologize to?  Those individuals who I feel I have dealt with harshly, including those who cheated me, I have expressed my feeling of sorrow for being so angry, although I do not see how it could have played out differently due to the time, place and circumstances.  I have no problem with God and no problem with Prabhupada.  If you wish to label me as "offensive" and "to be rejected" because of it, you are free to do so but I think that your label is incorrect and does not serve your own needs as well as you think.  I seriously doubt you will influence me to change my consciousness.  And why would you do so?  Do you really want me back in ISKCON?  Of course not!  You do not like me and you did not like what I did at that time.  Not sure why really, but it is so.  Fine.  We agree to disagree.  Remember, truth drowns in an ocean of lies.   You cannot call the love I have for Prabhupada (the person, not the founder acarya) an empty sentiment.  You cannot tell me about the quality of my love.  I know that you will, but these are your (empty) opinions only and should be clearly stated as such.  Indeed, the term "empty sentiment" is an oxymoron.  A sentiment cannot be empty by definition.  My sentiment towards Prabhupada is, if you are interested, deep and it is anything but empty.  He was the only one who appreciated me for what I am, who engaged me accordingly, and who respected what i could do and encouraged it.  He saw the me who usually hid and worked behind the scenes and he brought that person out into the forefront.  I therefore gave my life for him and his service.  I dedicated myself to him and our Lords.  My appreciation for what he did for me in recognizing my potential and capacity and investing in me as he did will remain throughout this life.  I do not regret anything I did in his service and I do not feel in any way I have lost, or wasted, or was exploited.  My appreciation runs deep.  That appreciation is independent of me remaining in a flawed organization filled with controversy, debate, endless disputes, and extreme negativity against me for reasons that are either born of fantasy or are motivated by others inner trauma that my life seems to awaken.   Yet, when I was faced with dealing with what ISKCON had become, I had a very hard time to understand why.  It was easy to simply say that it was all our own fault, that we were bad and did not properly follow Prabhupada.  It is way easier to blame me, as I am not around to defend myself, or other leaders as they are easy targets.  This does not require intelligence to say.  But to understand why there was such systemic abuse and exploitation of the weaker elements of society requires a much deeper look into the psyche and heart of the people within ISKCON.  The real question to be addressed is why? Any man on the street can say "this is wrong, they did that, they are wrong" but none of these opinions change things in the ultimate issue.  As these do not know why things went wrong, they simply elect new leaders who are equally wrong only to become frustrated again. I do not wish to get into extreme details as this would take far too long and should be the subject of a book.  My conclusion, right or wrong, reached after incredible soul searching and painful recognition of facts and feelings, was that it all boiled down to the value structure that we embraced and the incredible wall of obstacles thrown up each time I tried to fundamentally change the manner in which we made decisions and created plans in ISKCON by the brahmastra of "Prabhupada Said."  This phrase cancelled the attempt to use logic and reason, feeling and experience derived from the moment and the events leading to the situation needing resolution.  It creates a situation where one is suddenly at odds with one's beloved guru, the Founder and Acarya of this Great Institution.  When it came down to very critical junctures that required a new way of thinking and a different value structure, this super block phrase was used by some people.  Due to social pressures, even though many would disagree with what he said or felt that had he been alive today he would have obviously said something else, devotees often bowed to social expectation and what was right was not done.  It is kind of like being in post 9/11 USA and saying that perhaps Al Queida did not do the bombs.  I myself felt that great pressure.  I felt I could not change things significantly.   When I had a lot of money I could change things.  It is easy to change things in ISKCON with money.  You just support those areas that have value and you do not support those areas that should die away.  You support people who are progressive and know how to do the right thing, and you do not support others who do not.  It is rather easy.  Even members of the GBC who did not usually like me, often for the wrong reasons, suddenly liked me very much and wanted to work with me when they saw I had the funds to do all kinds of interesting things.  Sri Ram, bless his departed soul, who often did not like me said to me, "You know, even though I don't like many things you do, one thing I greatly respect, you never use money as a bribe to force others to change their opinions or actions."  And it was so.  My role was to facilitate others to become great in their own way.  I liked that very much.  I still like it.   I decided that I could no longer be bound by having to follow the opinion of someone else.  I decided I had to ultimately do what I think is right because I could not continue following something I think is wrong and is fundamentally flawed.  At that point I saw that I could not change ISKCON because ISKCON was bound to its founder, as you all point out in your texts.  So I said I am no longer bound, I no longer follow, I make my own choices because I feel they are the right thing to do.  This is why I am not a "devotee" who has pledged allegiance to Prabhupada in any and all circumstances regardless of my own personal feeling.  I have placed my right to make my own choices based on my own conscious awareness and quality firmly in my own hands.  At that time, coming to such a conclusion was equivalent to a volcano erupting.  You cannot imagine what this realization did to me and the power it unleashed (for better or worse).  As you cannot conceive of this, you also cannot understand how I felt and therefore my actions or words immediately afterwards seem inconceivable to you.  Do I feel the same way now?  Of course not.  Did I feel the same way one week later?  No.  But my conclusions reached on that fateful day in the forest remain instilled in my consciousness as they came directly from my heart.   This was my own choice and decision and I do not insist or push anyone to share my reasoning or my conclusions.  I have often said that if you wish to hate me, do so for the proper reasons, not for mythical ones.  Because I separated myself from Prabhupada, the GBC freaked out and assumed that I would make a movement to take all the devotees away from ISKCON, which would mean massive financial loss.  Therefore, they attacked me with all their power.  They assumed that if they were to totally discredit me in all ways by turning me into this monster who was so fallen and crazy that no one in their right mind would consider following me, they would protect what they had.  They thought they would preserve Prabhupada's legacy.  I suppose it worked!  Unfortunately, it was all over-kill as I did not wish to steal away people as I did not and still have no group or organization to steal them to.  I do say that everyone should take care of themselves and make their own choices as no one else will do it as well.  But that is just my opinion.  I heard months later that over a thousand devotees left their places and gathered in St Petersburg, but this had nothing to do with me directly.  Interestingly, all the attacking the GBC did simply created unsurmountable walls between what became two groups.  The more they pummeled my reputation, the more they became hated.  I think the strategy of burning straw men is not an advantageous political methodology, yet as the GBC at that time was not very mature, they took that path and I still have to deal with hate mail and strange texts now 13 years later.  People in the regular society comment when they hear this is still going on, "Don't these people have lives?"   If you are a person who follows Prabhupada in all circumstances and who will quote sastra, sadhu and guru about how bad I am for not doing so, then you can save your energy.  No contest.  And I am not sure who you are trying to convince after all these years.  Why are you still so concerned with this 13 years after my departure?  How do I threaten you so that you feel you have to defend yourself?  Prabhupada and Krsna do not need this defense as I do not attack them, and besides, I am a nothing compared to them, isn't it?  How could I be a threat?  Do you honestly think they fear me?  That is silly!  I am living my life, keeping to myself, sharing with those who wish to hear what I have to say, assisting others to do what they wish to do.  Indeed, I have consistently given ISKCON and BBT people valuable information and perhaps insights into how to do what they do better.  So why do I remain a problem for you?  I find it interesting.  Do you think that smashing me down more will help you rise to greater heights?  That is a strange logic, but one that has historical precedent.   During my 22 years as a GBC/BBT/Guru, I certainly did some things that some people do not like, some people hate with all their heart, some people think were kind of good, some people adore, or some could care less about.  This is natural.  It is to be expected.  I see no value in defending what I did.  I see great value in making sure that what we state as facts are correct as it annoys me that fiction is now accepted as historical fact.  When I can contribute to clarifying what happened from my personal experience, I do so.  But defending it and speaking about it do not interest me that much.  After all, everyone maintains their own opinion so long as that opinion serves them.   Hari     --- On Sun, 8/14/11, ameyatma <amey...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: ameyatma <amey...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: ex-puredevotee/infallible acarya/expansion of Krsna's mercy - Harikesa swami - selling a mansion of His: