Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu...

[Pratyatosa]

On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 5:02 AM, gaurangasundar dasa <gaurangas...@gmail.com> wrote:

"I will always be the spiritual master for the entire Krishna  consciousness movement; for anyone in this age willing to follow the  principles  I have given for the benefit of  everyone." (Conversation 1975, Ookala, Hawaii.)

 

Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Now that we have your attention, please tell us wherefrom you got the above quote. It's not in the 2012 (the latest) version of the VedaBase.

Even though this information was requested of you previously on this forum, you simply ignored those requests. Why? Do you have something to hide?

Are the ISKCON, Inc. Prabhupadaanugas, similar to what Narayana Maharaja has obviously done, making up bogus quotes in order to try to strengthen their case?

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi>, <http://causelessmercy.com/>, <http://rtvik.com/>, <http://pratyatosa.com/>, <http://feedacow.com/>, <http://llbest.com/>

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

hare krsna prabhu
dandavat pranam

Prabhu the above quote is from an article by Vikramasingha das called

Sad-Guru Nama-hatta or "Guru-hatta" Hati-mata?

http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.in/2012/03/sad-guru-nama-hatta-or-guru-hatta-hati.html 

HE HAD SENT ME THIS ARTICLE N I HAD POSTED IT.HE IS NOT FROM ISKCON INC AND THAT TIME I WAS ALSO NOT ASSOCIATED WITH ISKCON INC .

AND I THINK HE HAS ALSO USED THIS QUOTE IN HIS ARTICLE "

Sri Guru-tattva

http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.in/2012/03/sri-guru-tattva.html

your servant
gaurangasundar dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Concerning http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.in/2012/03/sad-guru-nama-hatta-or-guru-hatta-hati.html :

1. There is no disciple of Srila Prabhupada named "Vikramasingha" listed on the official ISKCON disciple database (See: http://sp.krishna.com/disciples_v)

2. He also quoted Srila Prabhupada as saying, "Only Lord Chaitanya can take my place," which is also not in VedaBase 2012.

3. He also quoted Srila Prabhupada as saying, "After me, there will be no more acarya.," which is also not in VedaBase 2012.

It seems like he simply gets "Prabhupada said" quotes out of thin air!

Is this something similar to a government disinformation campaign designed to discredit the Prabhupadanugas by feeding them bogus quotes, hoping that they will make fools out of themselves by repeating them (as you have done)?

Ys, Ptd

[Padmagarbha dasa]

Pratyatosa Prabhu,

 

For you to equate the Prabhpadaanugas at ISKCON Inc. with Narayan Maharaja is without doubt, one of the most offensive and most regrettable statements I have heard in years.  The Prabhus at ISKCON Inc. are making a most sincere and comment able effort to serve Srila Prabhupada, to counter the evil actions of the most despicable gurus and gbc of iskcon.  Whereas Narayan Maharaja's [ one of the vilest creatures ever to crawl on this planet] his claim to fame was the repeated minimization and constant outright blaspheming of Srila Prabhupada,

I  myself cannot verify the quote in question; however, the essence of this "quote" is 100% supported by Srila Prabhupada's orders [per the May 28th conversation, and the July 9th letter] regarding 'future' initiations in ISKCON ! Not one single point in this "quote" is untrue, "Srila Prabhupada will always be the spiritual master for the entire Krsna consciousness movement, for anyone in this age willing to follow the principles he has given for the benefit of everyone."

As far as that quote not being in the 2012 [or any previous] Veda Base,  should not come to the surprise of anybody.  The team in charge of the 'Archives' is 100% subservient to the gbc, in addition to being most loyal supporters of Tripurari. This quote would only further undermine the gbc's, as well as Tipurari's position, while adding more weight to the claims of the "ritviks".

In 1976 I read a letter from Srila Prabhupada in which he ordered that all grhastas are to move to the farms and work towards self sufficiency.  This letter also is nowhere to be found in the Veda Base.

 

                                                                                              Padmagarbha dasa

--
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[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

Hare krsna
http://krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com/gurunamahatta.html
This post also appears in Yasoda nanadan prabhu and Damaghosa Dasa prabhu wabsite also and Vikramasingha Dasa is one of the contributors to that site also.His name is listed on their page as one of the authors.

your servant
Gaurangasundar dasa

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

EVEN Prabhupada Vision WEBSITE MENTIONS THIS ARTICLE . http://prabhupadavision.com/2012/01/guru-tattva-101/

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 9:54 PM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

Articles written by Vikramasingha Dasa has also been published by http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/ 
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=27917

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Padmagarbha Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

If someone simply makes up "Prabhupada says" quotes out of thin air, quotes that are not in the VedaBase, quotes with no exact date, and quotes with no explanation as to where they came from, how is that any different from Narayana Maharaja misquoting Bhaktivinode Thakura?

These quotes would be great if they were real, but who said that Srila Prabhupada said them, and why are they not in the VedaBase?

Don't you live near the Archives? If so, please present these 3 quotes ("I will always be the spiritual master for the entire Krishna consciousness movement," "Only Lord Chaitanya can take my place," and "After me, there will be no more acharya.") to Ekanatha Prabhu and ask him why they are not in the VedaBase, and let us know what he says.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

HARE KRSNA PRABHU
PRABHU I HAVE SIMPLY POSTED AN ARTICLE WRITTEN BY VIKRAMASINGHA PRABHU. ALL MAJOR PRABHUPADANUAGS WEBSITES HAS ALSO POSTED THIS ARTICLE OR ARTICLES BY VIKRAMASINGHA PRABHU. SO INSTEAD OF ACCUSING ME FOR JUST POSTING THIS ARTICLE WONT IT BE BETTER WE ASK VIKRAMASINGHA PRABHU OR YASODANANDAN PRABHU OR DAMOGHOSA PRABHU ABOUT THE SOURCE OF THESE QUOTES??

Gaurangasundar dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu, below is another example of an email to you that you simply ignored. Why? Srila Prabhupada said, "A gentleman always answers his mail." Where is there even one example of Srila Prabhupada giving someone the "silent treatment?"

Ys, Ptd


--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Hanton <hanto...@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 5:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Prabhupadanuga] http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.com/
To: istag...@googlegroups.com


Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

First of all I want to thank you for sending me the link to your website or blogspot. I read and appreciate the articles posted there.

You recently put up one letter from 1969 which I have copied you below and that letter was subsequently used in an article posted on Sampradaya Sun.
After that Ekanatha Prabhu from the Archives asked if he could be given a verified copy of that letter to store in the Archives as they do not have it now.
Please let me know if that will be possible.

ys,
Jitarati das

Tuesday, 10 January 2012

GBC: Stop the Cheating!

ANIRUDDHA DAS

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja Prabhupada
Letter to his London disciples, July, 1969:

"Therefore having a bona fide spiritual master and serving him and pleasing him and getting his mercy is essential. Otherwise there can be no advancement in Krishna consciousness. And unless the spiritual master is a pure devotee of Krishna then he has no potency to give you Krishna. He is simply a cheating rascal.

So in fact above all the rules and regulations and offenses I have mentioned the most important thing, the essential thing, which is required if you want to come to the stage of purely chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is you must have a bona fide spiritual master who is a pure devotee of Krishna. Without having a bona fide spiritual master you can chant Hare Krishna forever but you will not be able to advance because Krishna does not reveal Himself in this way. He only reveals Himself to those devotees who surrender to and serve and please His pure devotees."

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

HARE KRSNA PRABHU
PRABHU I HAVE ALREADY REMOVED THIS ARTICLE FROM MY BLOG AS WAS NOT ABLE TO VERIFY IT.PLEASE LET ME KNOW MORE SUCH ARTICLES ON MY BLOG SO THAT I CAN ALSO REMOVE THEM.
MY BLOG IS OPEN FOR ALL PRABHUPADANUGAS SO I POST ALL ARTICLES WHICH ARE SEND TO ME.NOW IN FUTURE ILL BE MUCH MORE CAREFUL.

gaurangasundar dasa

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

HARE KRSNA PRABHU

Pratyatoṣa prabhu on ur website there is a page called "

Prabhupāda Said, but Not in the Vedabase?" http://pratyatosa.com/?P=46 where you have written i think an email to Brahmananda Prabhu--

Dear Brahmananda Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

At Anuttama's, back in late 1996, you told me, "Most of what Prabhupada said is not in the Folio, because 90% of the time, there was no tape recorder running." I have often thought about these words of wisdom, and they have inspired me to write the following (a work in progress).

Your servant, Pratyatoṣa Dāsa

Most of the quotes in that articles also have Source: Unknown.

These quotes are i think complied by you

gaurangasundar dasa

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

Dear Pratyatosa prabhu

the quote “Only Lord Chaitanya can take my place,” is also included in an article posted by http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=29330.So you are not only accusing my blog for posting these “bogus quotes” but also this website and all the other prabhupadanuga websites which has posted this quote .AS U SAID IN YOUR QUOTE”Is this something similar to a government disinformation campaign designed to discredit the Prabhupadanugas by feeding them bogus quotes, hoping that they will make fools out of themselves by repeating them (as you have done)?

The same article posted on this website http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=29330
also have this quote “After me, there will be no more acarya.” This is an article by Narasimha das.So now Narasimha das is also spreading “bogus quotes” along with this website and my blog and all other major prabhupadanuga websites???

[Padmagarbha dasa]

Pratyatosa Prabhu,

 

again, just because a quote can not be found on the Veda Base does not mean the quote is not genuine!

There is no doubt in my mind that there has been the intentional omission as well as alteration of quotes and statements by Srila Prabhupada on the Veda Base. These people, after all,  have no problem changing SP books why would they stop there!?  And, also some 'quotes' were just never recorded, but they survived from the testimony of witnesses.

For instance, SP stating that, "his books shall be the law-books for the next 10,000 years".  The Archives [Ekanath] claim that SP did not say this, as it is not to be found on the Veda Base.  A couple of years ago Ksudi Krti came to PV, and I ask him regarding this particular quote.  He told me that he personally heard SP state this very quote several times!

Also, regarding SP saying, "After me, there will be no more acharya".  Some years back, I was riding in a car to the Ratha Yatra site in Venice Beach, California. Sitting next to me was Rohini Kumar Swami [this was prior to him assuming the role of 'guru' and his consequent fall down]   Rohini Kumar Swami related to all of us in the car how he personally witnessed [heard]Srila Prabhupada, while at the New York airport,  being asked by a reporter, "who will be the next acarya?"  And Srila Prabhupada's answer was," After me, there will be no more acarya!"

It appears to me, Pratyatosa, that you only accept as factual something you can access on your computer,  while the personal accounts of witnesses are met  by you with much suspicion.

As far as me asking Ekanath any questions, I go out of my way avoiding association of those who show respect  as well as promote Tripurari.  [ "The biggest problem facing ISKCO today, it is suffering, of all things, from over glorification of Srila Prabhupada" ]  Tripurari in a letter to the GBC, 1994.

 ".....A siksa guru who instructs against the instructions of the spiritual [master]  he is not a siksa guru, He is a demon!.... .........Siksa guru does not mean he is speaking something against the teachings of the diksa guru. He is not a siksa guru. He is a rascal!".......... ] SP,  BG class 07-04-'74, Honolulu

 

--

[mark mclaughlin]

Dear Prabhus I noticed that this email exchange was cc'd to some devotees I don't know, ie, "nityatrpta", and some I do know ie, "Madhuha",  However, I sent my reply to only to your addresses, being that you are the ones directly discussing this issue.  You each may forward my little response to whomever you wish. I think the middle ground here is to be sure that when we are ascribing some statement to Srila Prabhupada, especially in a setting where we are debating or trying to establish siddhanta, that we are sure to indicate whether or not the quote is second hand (hearsay) or verifiable by the record we all have access too.  Whether or not the statement is in line with what we as staunch disciples KNOW to be correct siddhanta or not.   It really can be that simple. And this use of the term Iskcon Inc. really needs to be clarified, which is what I set out to do (in my own bumbling way) on that thread started at Prabhupadanugas.eu,   Nimai Pandit das came out of "hiding" after many years so I am sure that this is an important topic to discuss and clarify. Suffice it to say that Iskcon Inc. guidelines are technically only applicable to the center listed on those incorporation papers as the primary place of worship,  Which as we know may be changed as long as it is in a county within NY state.  It is currently the Long Island temple in Nassau county.  Yet, these guidelines are generally boilerplate for all religious societies that incorporate, and relate only to what a temple MUST do in order to be Officially recognized and "legally" incorporated in their state.  Such incorporation is NOT a necessary requirement for a center to undertake in order to be affiliated with Iskcon as Srila Prabhupada envisioned Iskcon. The only reason to incorporate a center locally is if such incorporation benefits the center by allowing it to take advantage of local laws and legal protections afforded to groups that incorporate as religious societies.  If a center decides it is NOT in their best interest, they need not incorporate locally.  As long as they follow Srila Prabhupada's spiritual standards, including administrative standards, they are affiliated with Iskcon as Srila Prabhupada meant Iskcon to be, incorporated or not. The long Island temple is now, by LAW, required to follow all bylaws as set forth by the state of NY.  That is the only result of being affiliated with Iskcon Inc. The trustees and officers of Iskcon inc. could withdraw their incorporation tomorrow if they so chose.  They would lose whatever legal benefits and protections they might receive from the state of NY, and the "status" symbol, but could continue to operate as an Iskcon affiliated temple. In other words, the Iskcon inc. charter has nothing to do with any center other than the primary place of worship listed on the registration.  Period.   However, and Gaurangasundar das can correct me on this, I seem to remember that there was some latitude given to the center when filling out the registration form, in other words, there was some ability to tailor the plan to the particular institution.  The incorporation form also acknowledged that members were to adhere to the principles of the religion in order to participate in the programs and be considered members in good standing. Therefore, there is alot of common sense in the tenets and bylaws as put forth in these society incorporation templates, which is why Srila Prabhupada agreed that his center in NY conform to them and be governed by them. Thus in general they are to be considered sound principles and we should endeavor to apply as many as possible when forming centers in other areas of the US, whether we decide to officially incorporate or not. Be glad to hear any feedback as to what I just said. Thanks Hare Krsna ys Mark --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Padmagarbha dasa <pg1...@netzero.com> wrote:

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Gaurangasundar, please don't think that I am singling you out because I don't like you or something like that. You are doing a great service to the community of Prabhupadanugas. Of this there is no doubt. You are good at what you do, and I, for one, am very grateful for your selfless service to Srila Prabhupada.

It's just that other members of this forum had asked you, several months ago, for verification of certain quotes which are contained on your website, and you never replied. It wasn't until I questioned why ISKCON, Inc. is apparently being used as the name of more than one temple, that you finally "came out of the woodwork" and decided to reply.

The fact that you found these same suspect quotes on other Prabhupadanuga websites is interesting, but, as far as I know, they are quoted by authors that we don't know, and could even be made-up names. Therefore, they could be people posting anonymously.

http://rtvik.com/

...makes our points just fine and dandy without resorting to unverified quotes. Using unverified quotes, instead of strengthening our case, as is seemingly being intended, only weakens it. Like Bhakta Mark Prabhu said on:

http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=32622#comment-13460

..., we must always be skeptical of quotes which cannot be verified, especially when the person doing the quoting is obviously self-motivated.

Ys, Ptd

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Gaurangasundar Dasa <gaurangas...@gmail.com> wrote:

HARE KRSNA PRABHU

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Padmagarbha Prabhu, according to you, we can make up any "Prabhupada said" quote that we want, and if someone asks why it's not in the VedaBase, we can reply, "Because the Bhaktivedanta Archives folks purposely leave things out." What kind of twisted logic is that? :-(

Sometimes our memories play tricks on us. I can't imagine that Srila Prabhupada ever spoke to a reporter at one of the 3 major New York City airports without it having been recorded. I was there for one such event in 1975 (<http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=ix>). You can even hear my oldest son crying in the background while my wife was holding him.

Ys, Ptd

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Padmagarbha dasa <pg1...@netzero.com> wrote:

Pratyatosa Prabhu,

 

again, just because a quote can not be found on the Veda Base does not mean the quote is not genuine!

There is no doubt in my mind that there has been the intentional omission as well as alteration of quotes and statements by Srila Prabhupada on the Veda Base. These people, after all,  have no problem changing SP books why would they stop there!?  And, also some 'quotes' were just never recorded, but they survived from the testimony of witnesses.

For instance, SP stating that, "his books shall be the law-books for the next 10,000 years".  The Archives [Ekanath] claim that SP did not say this, as it is not to be found on the Veda Base.  A couple of years ago Ksudi Krti came to PV, and I ask him regarding this particular quote.  He told me that he personally heard SP state this very quote several times!

Also, regarding SP saying, "After me, there will be no more acharya".  Some years back, I was riding in a car to the Ratha Yatra site in Venice Beach, California. Sitting next to me was Rohini Kumar Swami [this was prior to him assuming the role of 'guru' and his consequent fall down]   Rohini Kumar Swami related to all of us in the car how he personally witnessed [heard]Srila Prabhupada, while at the New York airport,  being asked by a reporter, "who will be the next acarya?"  And Srila Prabhupada's answer was," After me, there will be no more acarya!"

It appears to me, Pratyatosa, that you only accept as factual something you can access on your computer,  while the personal accounts of witnesses are met  by you with much suspicion.

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

Regarding the quote “Only Lord Chaitanya can take my place,” just got a email from Damagosha dasa prabhu “This quote “Only Lord Chaitanya can take my place,” came originally from our book Srila Prabhupada Siddhanta. I asked Yasoda nandan about it more than once and he told me the quote was originally in Hindi and that is why most devotees have never heard or read it.

dd

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

HARE KRSNA PRABHU
These quotes were never used by me in any articles written by me .These quotes were used by various authors whose name you can see before each article and i had simply posted those articles on my blog on request ,as many other prabhupadanuga websites also have published/posted those articles or articles by those authors.So the real question about the validity of these quotes should go to the authors .

ys
gaurangasundar dasa

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

Prayatosa prabhu writes"The fact that you found these same suspect quotes on other Prabhupadanuga websites is interesting, but, as far as I know, they are quoted by authors that we don't know, and could even be made-up names. Therefore, they could be people posting anonymously.

Prabhu I have already pointed out that Vikramasingha Dasa prabhu is associated with Hare Krsna Society.His many articles can be found on the website http://krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com .Vikramasingha Dasa is listed as one of the authors on that website .The article in question is also posted on that website.So to  nail the issue and get to the real question that from where these quotes came i think you should write to that website or ask Vikramasingha Dasa  or Yasodanandan prabhu and other devotees associated with that website and Hare Krsna Society.

your servant
gaurangasundar dasa

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Gaurangasundar Dasa]

Prayatosa prabhu writes"It's just that other members of this forum had asked you, several months ago, for verification of certain quotes which are contained on your website, and you never replied. It wasn't until I questioned why ISKCON, Inc. is apparently being used as the name of more than one temple, that you finally "came out of the woodwork" and decided to reply."

Prabhu shouldn't you be happy that last 3 days i am constantly replying.If i was ignoring to reply then i could have done that this time also.The only logical thing one can derive from this is that the previous question posted at me by various senior devotees somehow i missed them. I have been extremely busy last 1 yrs traveling around the world and inspiring devotee to open centers in their locality.Have been Traveling to Europe,Russia,China,Ukraine,South America.Got around 80 centers around the world to work together.Inspiring devotees to translate Srila Prabhupada Original books in their local languages.Inspiring devotees to start regular harinaam and book distribution programs in their respective centers.Ask Nimai pandit prabhu how much he or any other devotee assisted me or helped me? I was doing all this alone just been guided by Srila Prabhupada.

I was not posting all the progress about prabhupadanugas in the google group so that i become famous or my blog gets many hits.My blog is already getting 2000hits per day.My intention of posting all these reports on the google forum was as i thought prabhupadanugas will be happy seeing the progress .
As a matter of fact even though i did all this preaching work for Srila Prabhupada and Iskcon inc  i have no official position in ISKCON INC .I did not ask for any position or post so my seva is totally voluntary and with no motives. Any one can ask nimai pandit to confirm that i have no position in iskcon inc when i can easily become one of the trustee of iskcon inc or a gbc for russia/ukraine,china or any place .Local devotee have requested me to become their gbc but i have refused.

So the point here prabhu is it is not purposely that i did not answer the devotees but the fact that i missed these questions so i didn't anwer . I would like to apologize to those devotee who had posted the questions to me that i am sorry for my busy schedule i missed the questions and didnot reply

ys
gaurangasundar dasa

   

 

[Padmagarbha dasa]

Pratyatosa, 

 

Where in my two posts did I ever suggest that anybody can make up 'quotes'?  My questioning the "Archives" integrity is founded in two facts.One, it is a 'department' under the strict control of ISKCON's leadership, a cadre of "pseudoreligionists", who, "are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual- master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification". Two, I had the displeasure of having had some association with the Archive's various staff over the years. One would be hard pressed to ever encounter a more arrogant, puffed-up, and offensive group of people, namely Ranjit, Dulal Chandra, or Paramarupa. And perhaps you should be made an honorary member of the Archives, not only do you appear to be one of  their loyal and unconditional defenders, but you also exhibit some of the same qualities of the above mentioned "three stooges".

I too had the good fortune of being present for Srila Prabhupada's inconceivable ecstatic airport arrival and departure lilas, [about eight of them], and at several of those I had observed the lack of any microphone any where near Srila Prabhupada.

As far as you questioning my, or Rohini Kumar's, or Ksudi Krti's [ I don't really know who you are referring to] memories/integrity goes.  Speaking for myself, although an occasional lapse of mostly short- term memory is plaguing me more and more these days, I am 100% certain of my recollection of both anectotes I mentioned in my previous letter.
                                                                                  Padmagarbha dasa

 

 

 

 

 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Eddy Gaasbeek <eka...@gmail.com>, Nitya Trpta <Nitya-tr...@pamho.net>,  mark mclaughlin <markm...@yahoo.com>, Jitarati Dasa <hanto...@hotmail.com>,  Madhuha Dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>, Gaurangasundar Dasa <gaurangas...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu...

Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 23:06:59 -0500

Dear Padmagarbha Prabhu, according to you, we can make up any "Prabhupada said" quote that we want, and if someone asks why it's not in the VedaBase, we can reply, "Because the Bhaktivedanta Archives folks purposely leave things out." What kind of twisted logic is that? :-(

Sometimes our memories play tricks on us. I can't imagine that Srila Prabhupada ever spoke to a reporter at one of the 3 major New York City airports without it having been recorded. I was there for one such event in 1975 (<http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=ix>). You can even hear my oldest son crying in the background while my wife was holding him.

Ys, Ptd

 

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Padmagarbha dasa <pg1...@netzero.com> wrote:

Pratyatosa Prabhu,

�

again, just because a quote can not be found on the Veda Base does not mean the quote is not genuine!

There is no doubt in my mind that there has been the intentional omission as well as alteration of quotes and statements by Srila Prabhupada on the Veda Base. These people, after all,� have no problem changing SP books why would they stop there!?� And, also some 'quotes' were just never recorded, but they survived from the testimony of witnesses.

For instance, SP stating that, "his books shall be the law-books for the next 10,000 years".� The Archives [Ekanath] claim that SP did not say this, as it is not to be found on the Veda Base.� A couple of years ago Ksudi Krti came to PV, and I ask him regarding this particular quote.� He told me that he personally heard SP state this very quote several times!

Also, regarding SP saying, "After me, there will be no more acharya".� Some years back, I was riding in a car to the Ratha Yatra site in Venice Beach, California. Sitting next to me was Rohini Kumar Swami [this was prior to him assuming the role of 'guru' and his consequent fall down] � Rohini Kumar Swami related to all of us in the car how he personally witnessed [heard]Srila Prabhupada, while at the New York airport,� being asked by a reporter, "who will be the next acarya?"� And Srila Prabhupada's answer was," After me, there will be no more acarya!"

It appears to me, Pratyatosa, that you only accept as factual something you can access on your computer,� while the personal accounts of witnesses are met� by you with much suspicion.

As far as me asking Ekanath any questions, I go out of my way avoiding association of those who show respect� as well as promote Tripurari.� [ "The biggest problem facing ISKCO today, it is suffering, of all things, from over glorification of Srila Prabhupada" ]� Tripurari in a letter to the GBC, 1994.

�".....A siksa guru who instructs against the instructions of the spiritual [master]� he is not a siksa guru, He is a demon!.... .........Siksa guru does not mean he is speaking something against the teachings of the diksa guru. He is not a siksa guru. He is a rascal!".......... ] SP,� BG class 07-04-'74, Honolulu

 

--

[mark mclaughlin]

Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu,

You wrote: Ask Nimai pandit prabhu how much he or any other devotee assisted me or helped me? I was doing all this alone just been guided by Srila Prabhupada.

That could have been different.  As a matter of fact, I personally could have and might have been associating with you and traveling with you to inspire devotees in different areas of the world has you have been.  Except for one thing. Because I don't agree with the philosophical mindset that leads you to things like the following.

As a matter of fact even though i did all this preaching work for Srila Prabhupada and Iskcon inc  i have no official position in ISKCON INC .I did not ask for any position or post so my seva is totally voluntary and with no motives. Any one can ask nimai pandit to confirm that i have no position in iskcon inc when i can easily become one of the trustee of iskcon inc or a gbc for russia/ukraine,china or any place .Local devotee have requested me to become their gbc but i have refused."

My reply is this.  What is wrong with holding a position in Iskcon?  Why would the refusal to accept an office, especially when requested, be some indication of selflessness?   The answer is, that it would not.  All positions, including OFFICES such as President, treasurer, secretary, or GBC, are to be held by devotees who volunteer their time to do seva for Srila Prabhupada's Iskcon with no ulterior motives. Who has led you to believe otherwise? By saying such a thing, you are actually implying that those who are holding offices are selfishly motivated. I know you are now saying to yourself, "but that is not what I meant", and you are certainly ready to let me know that. And to that I would say that you have good intentions, but are a bit confused about certain principles in life.  You are still young and have more to learn.  As do I. But, I found a great deal of these misunderstandings amongst the devotees in the reform movement, especially the ones who I was trying to work with who were from the Bangalore temple, including Nimai Pandit himself. And when I point out these philisophical misunderstandings, I am met with resistance instead of a willingness to learn.  Without being open to constructive criticism, we are doing a DISSERVICE to Srila Prabhupada no matter how many "centers" we open because they will just be centers filled with neophytes who lack intellectual maturity and common sense, with no one to guide them higher. This is my opinion, based on the words I hear being spoken. Take it for what it is worth.  I am always willing and openly available for consultation and cooperation but I will not be led by anyone who thinks they are so damn smart that they reject constructive criticism. Thanks for your time. ys Mark   --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Gaurangasundar Dasa <gaurangas...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu, that explains it then. You didn't know that you had gotten replies to some of your forum posts. In the future, please check to see if you get any replies which call for you to reply. Otherwise, the devotees replying might take offense.

Also, the devotees who reply should keep in mind that not all members of the forum are set up to receive forum postings as email messages. Therefore, if someone doesn't reply, before assuming the worst, try sending that devotee a private email message informing him/her of your reply.

Srila Prabhupada would almost always install grhasthas as temple presidents. Also, when he first formed the GBC in 1970, he chose almost exclusively grhasthas to be it's first members. If you're a free-wheeling brahmacari, then it's not surprising that you don't want to accept a position which will tie you down. Let the grhasthas take over these positions.

I've been thinking for years that Russia is going to lead the next big reform movement, the reform which will finally fully reinstate Srila Prabhupada's ingenious ritvik system of initiations within ISKCON. Do you think that's possible?

In any case, please keep up the good work.

Ys, Ptd

[gaurangasundar dasa]

Hare Krsna Mark prabhu
Prabhu i am a preacher ,a book distributor.A management post
responsibility gets with it many many more things also.Right now i
want to focus on preaching and inspiring devotees.My time will come
but after 15 -20 yrs if i am alive then.
Because just as Srila Prabhupada said
"“Therefore we have created these GBC. So they should be very
responsible men. Otherwise, they will be punished. They will be
punished to become a sudra. Although Yamaraja is a GBC, but he made a
little mistake. He was punished to become a sudra. So those who are
GBC’s, they should be very, very careful to administer the business of
ISKCON. Otherwise they will be punished. As the post is very great,
similarly, the punishment is also very great.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, June 4th, 1974)
I am right now not ready for that.i am just 33.Dont have that much
experience and dont see myself so much efficient for such a
responsible position
In fact I believe that for the Gbc post and the Iskcon Inc trustee
post senior vaisnavas like your good self ,Yasodanandan prabhu,Jita
rati prabhu,Pratyatosa prabhu and other senior vaisnavas should
take .And i have told nimai to actually to personally to all the
senior vaisanavs and convince them beg them to take lead in Iskcon
inc n guide the centers affiliated with iskcon inc in their
respective area.To start with this nimai invited jita rati prabhu for
the china festival n today jita rati prabhu will be reaching the
festival leading n guiding the chinese there.
Dear prabhu just for once it a request to please look at my post with
now a critic eyes but with a supportive eyes.i need your
encouragement,support ,blessing .

your servant
gaurangasundar dasa

On Jan 4, 11:11 pm, mark mclaughlin <markmac...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu,
>
> You wrote:
>
> Ask Nimai pandit prabhu how much he or any other devotee assisted me or helped me? I was doing all this alone just been guided by Srila Prabhupada.
> That could have been different.  As a matter of fact, I personally could have and might have been associating with you and traveling with you to inspire devotees in different areas of the world has you have been.  Except for one thing.
> Because I don't agree with the philosophical mindset that leads you to things like the following.
>
> As a matter of fact even though i did all this preaching work for Srila Prabhupada and Iskcon inc  i have no official position in ISKCON INC .I did not ask for any position or post so my seva is totally voluntary and with no motives. Any one can ask nimai pandit to confirm that i have no position in iskcon inc when i can easily become one of the trustee of iskcon inc or a gbc for russia/ukraine,china or any place .Local devotee have requested me to become their gbc but i have refused."
> My reply is this.  What is wrong with holding a position in Iskcon?  Why would the refusal to accept an office, especially when requested, be some indication of selflessness?
> The answer is, that it would not.  All positions, including OFFICES such as President, treasurer, secretary, or GBC, are to be held by devotees who volunteer their time to do seva for Srila Prabhupada's Iskcon with no ulterior motives.
> Who has led you to believe otherwise?
> By saying such a thing, you are actually implying that those who are holding offices are selfishly motivated.
> I know you are now saying to yourself, "but that is not what I meant", and you are certainly ready to let me know that.
> And to that I would say that you have good intentions, but are a bit confused about certain principles in life.  You are still young and have more to learn.  As do I.
> But, I found a great deal of these misunderstandings amongst the devotees in the reform movement, especially the ones who I was trying to work with who were from the Bangalore temple, including Nimai Pandit himself.
> And when I point out these philisophical misunderstandings, I am met with resistance instead of a willingness to learn.  Without being open to constructive criticism, we are doing a DISSERVICE to Srila Prabhupada no matter how many "centers" we open because they will just be centers filled with neophytes who lack intellectual maturity and common sense, with no one to guide them higher.
>
> This is my opinion, based on the words I hear being spoken.
> Take it for what it is worth.  I am always willing and openly available for consultation and cooperation but I will not be led by anyone who thinks they are so damn smart that they reject constructive criticism.
> Thanks for your time.
> ys
> Mark
>
>
>

> --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Gaurangasundar Dasa <gaurangasundard...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> From: Gaurangasundar Dasa <gaurangasundard...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu...
> To: "Pratyatosa" <pratyat...@gmail.com>
> Cc: "Eddy Gaasbeek" <eka...@gmail.com>, "Nitya Trpta" <Nitya-trpta.AC...@pamho.net>, istag...@googlegroups.com, "mark mclaughlin" <markmac...@yahoo.com>, "Jitarati Dasa" <hantonj...@hotmail.com>, "Madhuha Dasa" <madhuhad...@gmail.com>, "Damaghosa Dasa" <dasdas...@aol.com>, yasoda1...@yahoo.com
> Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 1:53 AM
>
> Prayatosa prabhu writes"It's
> just that other members of this forum had asked you, several months ago,
>  for verification of certain quotes which are contained on your website,
>  and you never replied. It wasn't until I questioned why ISKCON, Inc. is
>  apparently being used as the name of more than one temple, that you
> finally "came out of the woodwork" and decided to reply."
>
> Prabhu shouldn't you be happy that last 3 days i am constantly replying.If i was ignoring to reply then i could have done that this time also.The only logical thing one can derive from this is that the previous question posted at me by various senior devotees somehow i missed them. I have been extremely busy last 1 yrs traveling around the world and inspiring devotee to open centers in their locality.Have been Traveling to Europe,Russia,China,Ukraine,South America.Got around 80 centers around the world to work together.Inspiring devotees to translate Srila Prabhupada Original books in their local languages.Inspiring devotees to start regular harinaam and book distribution programs in their respective centers.Ask Nimai pandit prabhu how much he or any other devotee assisted me or helped me? I was doing all this alone just been guided by Srila Prabhupada.
>
> I was not posting all the progress about prabhupadanugas in the google group so that i become famous or my blog gets many hits.My blog is already getting 2000hits per day.My intention of posting all these reports on the google forum was as i thought prabhupadanugas will be happy seeing the progress .
>
> As a matter of fact even though i did all this preaching work for Srila Prabhupada and Iskcon inc  i have no official position in ISKCON INC .I did not ask for any position or post so my seva is totally voluntary and with no motives. Any one can ask nimai pandit to confirm that i have no position in iskcon inc when i can easily become one of the trustee of iskcon inc or a gbc for russia/ukraine,china or any place .Local devotee have requested me to become their gbc but i have refused.
>
> So the point here prabhu is it is not purposely that i did not answer the devotees but the fact that i missed these questions so i didn't anwer . I would like to apologize to those devotee who had posted the questions to me that i am sorry for my busy schedule i missed the questions and didnot reply
>
> ys
> gaurangasundar dasa
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Gaurangasundar Dasa <gaurangasundard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Prayatosa prabhu writes"The
> fact that you found these same suspect quotes on other Prabhupadanuga
> websites is interesting, but, as far as I know, they are quoted by
> authors that we don't know, and could even be made-up names. Therefore, they could be people posting anonymously.
>

> Prabhu I have already pointed out that Vikramasingha Dasa prabhu is associated with Hare Krsna Society.His many articles can be found on the websitehttp://krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com.Vikramasingha Dasa is listed as one of the authors on that website .The article in question is also posted on that website.So to  nail the issue and get to the real question that from where these quotes came i think you should write to that website or ask Vikramasingha Dasa  or Yasodanandan prabhu and other devotees associated with that website and Hare Krsna Society.
>
> your servant
> gaurangasundar dasa

[Mario Pineda]

Hare Krishna. I agree with Padmagarbha dasa in relation to the personnel of the Archives. It has also been my experience. I am almost completely sure, that there are various Vada Bases. I have 2 or three. I recall years ago, we did notice one that information the other did not. My estimation is that they have also changed Veda Base and the versions are different for the convenience of the ratas. (veda vata ratas) Thanks.

Mahatma dasa (ritvik)

[mark mclaughlin]

Sorry Prabhu, Now I understand what you were trying to say. I can appreciate that you don't want to accept a position you don't feel you are qualified for, especially if it is being offered to you.  That is an admirable quality. I also appreciate that you were always posting updates on all the Prabhupada centered activites happening around the world.  It was always heartening to see so much progress. I think Pratyatosa das was counseling that you should keep in mind that quality is more important than quantity, and no matter how busy you get, it is important to be sure that the quotes you present, or allow others to present, are backed up by evidence.  And if they are not it is important to take the time to qualify that they are hearsay or anecdotes. And take the time to read replies to what you post.  And that is hard to do when you are doing too much at once. No need to be defensive.  Just take it as constructive criticism, which it was, and then you will benefit. Sorry if I underestimated your intelligence about official positions and their voluntary nature.   Thanks for all you do. ys B.Mark

--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Gaurangasundar Dasa <gaurangas...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Gaurangasundar Dasa <gaurangas...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Dear Gaurangasundar Prabhu... To: "Pratyatosa" <praty...@gmail.com> Cc: "mark mclaughlin" <markm...@yahoo.com>, "Eddy Gaasbeek" <eka...@gmail.com>, "Nitya Trpta" <Nitya-tr...@pamho.net>, istag...@googlegroups.com, "Jitarati Dasa" <hanto...@hotmail.com>, "Madhuha Dasa" <madhu...@gmail.com>, yasod...@yahoo.com, "Damaghosa Dasa" <dasd...@aol.com> Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:39 AM

Hare Krsna Mark prabhu Prabhu i am a preacher ,a book distributor.A management post responsibility gets with it many many more things also.Right now i want to focus on preaching and inspiring devotees.My time will come but after 15 -20 yrs if i am alive then. Because just as Srila Prabhupada said "“Therefore we have created these GBC. So they should be very responsible men. Otherwise, they will be punished. They will be punished to become a sudra. Although Yamaraja is a GBC, but he made a little mistake. He was punished to become a sudra. So those who are GBC’s, they should be very, very careful to administer the business of ISKCON. Otherwise they will be punished. As the post is very great, similarly, the punishment is also very great.” (Srila Prabhupada Lecture, June 4th, 1974) I am right now not ready for that.i am just 33.Dont have that much experience and dont see myself so much efficient for such a responsible position

In fact I believe that for the Gbc post and the Iskcon Inc trustee post senior vaisnavas like your good self ,Yasodanandan prabhu,Jita rati prabhu,Pratyatosa prabhu,Damaghosa prabhu and other senior Vaisnavas should take .And i have told nimai to actually to personally to all the senior vaisanavs and convince them beg them to take lead in Iskcon inc  n guide the centers affiliated with iskcon inc in their respective area.To start with this nimai invited jita rati prabhu for the china festival n today jita rati prabhu will be reaching  the festival leading n guiding the chinese there.

[Bhakta Mark]

Dear Pratyatosa das

you wrote

Like Bhakta Mark Prabhu said on:

http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=32622#comment-13460

..., we must always be skeptical of quotes which cannot be verified,
especially when the person doing the quoting is obviously self-
motivated.

I am sure it wasn't your intention, but when reading the above, it
appears that your comments after the link to my post on that other
website are a paraphrase of what I posted there.

When in actuality, they were your words. The first sentence is a
decent summation of what I said, "we must always be skeptical of
quotes which cannot be verified".

However, the second sentence is not something that I said or even
implied in the post at the link you provided.

And for good reason, because I actually had no idea of the motivation
of the devotees who used those unverifiable quotes that
Gaurangasundara dasa allowed onto his websites.

In addition, I am sure it wasn't your intention, but putting those two
sentences together as you did makes it seem like you are implying that
either Gaurangasundara dasa or the devotees who's articles he featured
on his site, were Obviously Self Motivated.

See what I mean?

The internet forum is such a tricky place and it is easy to be
misunderstood.

Hare Krsna!

> > PRABHU I HAVE SIMPLY POSTED AN ARTICLE WRITTEN BY VIKRAMASINGHA PRABHU. *ALL

> > MAJOR PRABHUPADANUAGS WEBSITES HAS ALSO POSTED THIS ARTICLE OR ARTICLES BY

> > *VIKRAMASINGHA PRABHU. SO INSTEAD OF ACCUSING ME FOR JUST POSTING THIS

[Pratyatosa]

You are right, Bhakta Mark Prabhu, and I apologize for "putting words in your mouth."

But I stand by my "obviously self-motivated" terminology because not all so-called ritviks are simply after the truth with a 100% pure heart. Those quotes strongly support the ritvik point of view, so, if they are misquotes, then the question is why was Srila Prabhupada misquoted in this way? Self-motivation is the obvious answer.

Just like the original 11 "appointed zonal acharyas" were obviously self-motivated to make up the "Prabhupada said" quote, "Your love for me will be shown by how you cooperate among yourselves." This quote originally came from Satsvarupa's writings, but he repeated it at different times in at least 3 different ways. Therefore, this is a tip-off that it's just another "Prabhupada said" that Prabhupada never said.

Ys, Ptd

[Pratyatosa]

From <https://www.facebook.com/gauridasa.pandita/posts/784930938286186>:

"I will always be the spiritual master for the entire Krishna consciousness
movement; for anyone in this age willing to follow the principles I have given for the benefit of everyone."

(SP Conversation 1975, Ookala, Hawaii)

• 
• Pratyatosa Dasa No matter how many people "like" the "quote," it doesn't mean that Srila Prabhupada actually said it.

  · Reply · 25 mins ·
• 
• Sila Salagram True. But can you actually prove he didn't?

  · Reply · 26 mins
• 
• Pratyatosa Dasa I already proved it.

  · Reply · 25 mins
• 
• Pratyatosa Dasa I'll say it again, "anyone in this age" is not in the VedaBase even once! Prabhupada doesn't talk like that!

  · Reply · 23 mins
• 
• Pratyatosa Dasa Neither is, "I will always be the spiritual master." Prabhupada doesn't talk like that!

  · Reply · 17 mins ·
• 
• Pratyatosa Dasa Neither is, "for the entire Krishna consciousness
  movement." Prabhupada doesn't talk like that!

  · Reply · 17 mins
• 
• Pratyatosa Dasa Neither is, "willing to follow the principles." Prabhupada doesn't talk like that!

  · Reply · 15 mins
• 
• Pratyatosa Dasa To claim that Srila Prabhupada made such an arrogant statement is doing him a disservice.

  · Reply · 13 mins

[Pratyatosa]

According to the VedaBase, Srila Prabhupada never went to Ookala, Hawaii. More proof that it's a bogus quote? (Ron Satyahit Das Conroy pointed this out on Facebook just now.)

[Madhuha Dasa]

Hare Krishna Pratyatosa Prabhu,

Please accept my obeisances.  All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I noticed this post stating that "

​

According to the VedaBase, Srila Prabhupada never went to Ookala, Hawaii...."

I don't know what's on the Vedabase, but I was on the Ookala farm on the big Island from 1972 through 1974 or 75, and Srila Prabhupada did visit there one time. I saw him there, although it was brief, he was there for a half a day or so.

ys

madhuha dasa

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--

sri-krishna-caitanya
prabhu-nityananda
sri-advaita gadadhara
srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda

Sri Pancha Tattva Ki Jaya.............Hare Krishna

"​...

Wherever you live, at home or outside home,

just keep a picture of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu

and chant Hare Krsna mantra before Him.

Then your life will be successful.

​"​

​Srila Prabhupada Lecture on​

Bhagavad-gita 7

​​

.2  -- March 10, 1975, London

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Madhuha Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

Thanks for your input. All that the VedaBase proves is that the Archives does not have a tape of Srila Prabhupada which is known to have been recorded in Ookala. Therefore, I assumed that he never went there. I stand corrected.

In any case, the quote is a very arrogant thing to say. Srila Prabhupada is humble. IMHO, he would never say such an arrogant thing. It seems that some rascal wants to make Prabhupada seem as arrogant as he is.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Madhuha Dasa]

Ok,

Hare Krishna

ys

madhuha dasa

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[Pratyatosa]

How's this for a conspiracy theory?: The <http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.in/2012/03/sad-guru-nama-hatta-or-guru-hatta-hati.html> article, where this quote seems to have originated, sounds like something that Rocana would do: Write an article under a fictitious name containing bogus "Prabhupada said" quotes, hoping that the Prabhupadanugas/Ritviks would be dumb enough to quote them, thereby discrediting themselves!

[rainer hahn]

It's Babylonian black magic, to present a couple of true things and then foist a lie on people. What happens is that people accept this lie without questioning.

[Pratyatosa]

Devotees need to spend more time listening to Srila Prabhupada's tapes. Then they would get to know him better, and they wouldn't be so naive as to accept bogus "Prabhupada said" quotes at the drop of a hat!

[Pratyatosa]

"Only Lord Chaitanya can take my place." This obviously bogus quote also appears to have originated with the bogus <http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.in/2012/03/sad-guru-nama-hatta-or-guru-hatta-hati.html> article. But Damaghosa Dasa, who has a history of quoting "Prabhupada said" quotes no matter how obvious it is that it's something that Srila Prabhupada would never have said in the million years, quoted it here: <http://www.iskcontimes.com/contradictions-and-insults-by-narayana-maharaja-over-what-srila-prabhupada-told-to-us/>!

Damaghosa has proven over the years that he is not a reliable witness. If someone says, "Prabhupada said," and it seems to agree with Damaghosa's ritvik agenda, Damaghosa will repeat it as if it's a genuine "Prabhupada said" quote without any discrimination whatsoever! Thus, he discredits himself as well as all of the Prabhupadanugas/Ritviks!

Of course, no one, not even Damaghosa, ever quotes "After me, there will be no more acarya." Why not? It's from the same bogus article! Does it simply not quite fit his/their self-motivated agenda?