Anyone who dares to correct an ISKCON "guru" must have psychological problems!

[Pratyatosa]

Typical knee-jerk reaction of an ISKCON GBC approved "guru":

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• Pratyatosa Dasa There is no evidence that Srila Prabhupada even approved of the statement, "Preaching is the essence," let alone that he ever actually said it.

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• Jivananda Dasa Vanacari Tamal Krishna Goswami was there when he said it and mentioned it to me several times. What is your problem anyway? Prabhupada said "books are the basis, purity is the force, utility is the principle and preaching is the essence". It is not just a fabrication. Why do you feel the need to spoil the mood and steal the attention to yourself? I am not a psychologist but I do believe there is a diagnosis here. You might want to have that checked before it gets out of hand. Hari Hari

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• Jivananda Dasa Vanacari Any way Pratyatosa Dasa Prabhu, in the post above I made no reference to Prabhupada saying that. Better get checked soon, it might already be out of hand.

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• Pratyatosa Dasa One thing is for sure: Prabhupada never ever, ever said "Books are the basis, purity is the force, utility is the principle and preaching is the essence." He was asked about it one time, but his only response was to ask if it was translated from the Chinese correctly.

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• Pratyatosa Dasa Don't feel bad, Prabhu. It's a common misconception.

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• Pratyatosa Dasa It's just that it annoys me that there are so many, self-motivated "Prabhupada said" quotes going around that Prabhupada never actually said. Is that crazy?

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(Copy/pasted from: <https://www.facebook.com/jivanandadasavanacari/posts/959434500779079>.)

[Pratyatosa]

No further reply, so far, from Jivananda Dasa Vanacari. Is he in a state of shock or what?

He must have slept through the "How to Pretend to be Humble" section of his "How to Be an ISKCON Guru" training. 😁

[Pratyatosa]

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Ajit Krishnadasa You inspired me to write this:

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Srila Prabhupada's Slogan for ISKCON?

We often hear that Srila Prabhupada said "Preaching is the essence, purity is the force, books are the basis, utility is the principle" as a kind og slogan or motto for ISKCON.

But did he?

BOOKS ARE THE BASIS

"Practically, books are the basis of our Movement." (Letter to Mandali Bhadra -- Jaipur 20 January, 1972)

"Books are the basis of our Movement." (Letter to Tusta Krsna -- Bombay 9 January, 1976)

PURITY IS THE FORCE

"Purity is the force..." (Letter to Trai -- India 4 March, 1973)

UTILITY IS THE PRINCIPLE

Nowhere to be found.

PREACHING IS THE ESSENCE

Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's called Preaching is the Essence. "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." It says, "Compiled by Rāmeśvara dāsa Swami and Śubhānanda dāsa Brahmacārī." It says, "A note of explanation. Every word of the text of this book is taken directly from the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder-ācārya of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. The text appearing in boldface type is Śrīla Prabhupāda's translations of verses from the Vedic literatures. The text in regular roman type consists of excerpts from His Divine Grace's summary studies and purports. Contents in brief: 1) The mission of the Lord—to give all living entities the benediction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. 2) It is the duty of the devotee to preach." Each one of these subjects, then they give verses or purports.
Brahmānanda: All about preaching.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, a devotee can use this book to learn these verses which substantiate the following points. These are the points. "3) Preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest welfare activity. 4) Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be distributed to everyone without restriction."
Prabhupāda: How many copies? (Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana)

Since Srila Prabhupada approved the book, I guess we can say he approved the phrase "Preaching is the essence".

Trivikrama: He has brought you one Chinese script.
Hari-śauri: What does it say?
Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, this is Chinese character scroll. It says, "Books are the basis, preaching is the essence, utility is the principle and purity is the force." It was translated poorly by myself, and the characters were written by...
Prabhupāda: Is that all right?
Devotee (5): I can read, but I don't write. Ah... The last part, "purity," it should be... It's not so exact. That's my opinion.
Prabhupāda: What did he say in the trans...?
Devotee (5): It's "cleanliness" rather than "purity."
Bali-mardana: He has translated purity as "cleanliness." Not quite exact.
Devotee (5): But people can understand.
Cāru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? There's some devotees here from Berkeley temple, and they'd like to make a gift. These are some pictures of the temple which has just been newly redecorated.
Hari-śauri: This is outside the temple. (770225ED-MAYAPUR - February 25, 1977 - 40:33 Minutes)

Srila Prabhupada does not seem interested in these Chinese scrolls.

CONCLUSION: Even though Srila Prabhupada said "books are the basis of our Movement", that "purity is the force" and approved the term "Preaching is the essence" it is clear that he did not use these four expressions at a kind of slogan or motto for ISKCON, and there seems to be no basis for using them as such. He never used these expressions in connection to each other.

"...just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: "Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that." (721107 - Letter to Krsnadasa written from Vrndavana)

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Any comments?

(From: <https://www.facebook.com/pratyatosa/posts/10207052000674930>.)

[Ken McLEOD]

A slogan which was constantly used (and still is) in Australia to keep rank and file members collecting money (at all costs) for their bogus guru to keep the bogus gurus coffers full.

Some examples are because Srila Prabhupada said "preaching is the essence" ( which he did not say) anything goes. You can present a false picture and say you are collecting for starving children when really the money is going to a bogus guru, you can wear a wig to do this, you can breach copyright laws (putting Srila Prabhupadas good name at risk)  and make caps and trinkets and all sorts of things for the sake of collecting money for a bogus guru. You can sell wine at Iskcon restaurants because .... "Preaching is the essence"

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[John Hanton]

"...just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: "Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that." (721107 - Letter to Krsnadasa written from Vrindavana)

So the question is here, can anyone point out how any of these slogans represent a false thing or a wrong understanding?

Certainly not anyone who understands the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness. They became standard slogans because they are not false and do truly represent what Prabhupada was teaching and what the movement stands for.

UTILITY IS THE PRINCIPLE  So how could anyone think in another way? We use everything in Krishna 's service. The best utility, the best  guiding principle.Someone is objecting to that idea?

If any of these slogans are wrong, why not argue that point and come to the right conclusion, instead of trying to diminish their real value by raising doubts about their validity. The only reason I can think of why someone would want to do that is if they didn't want to follow these standards.

Of course if someone just tries to say they are Prabhupada's literal slogans all together as one unit and use that to prop oneself up artificially as a great follower of Srila Prabhupada, that is another thing, but it is also another issue, and should not be used to diminish the meaning of these slogans which are are common sense and axiomatic.

Your servant,

Jitarati das

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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 07:15:55 -0700
From: praty...@gmail.com
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Anyone who dares to correct an ISKCON "guru" must have psychological problems!

He must have slept through the "How to Pretend to be Humble" section of his "How to Be an ISKCON Guru" training.

[Ken McLEOD]

Interpretation is the problem. Unfortunately for the rest of us there is a majority rule for Iskcon. And we see that problem here in this thread. Pratyatosa Prabhu has corrected a misunderstanding someone from the majority doesn't want the correct conclusion.

We use everything in Krishna's service?  It seems this is an optional extra if interpreted to uphold a conspiracy.

[Pratyatosa]

I must admit, it's a pretty clever slogan, but what they should have done is, with a tape recorder running, presented it to Srila Prabhupda and specifically asked for his approval, instead of simply saying, without any proof, that Prabhupada said it.

But when certain self-motivated leaders, back in 1978, first started claiming that Prabhupada said it, they had no idea that, in the future, there would be a VedaBase, what to speak of the Internet! In other words, they thought that they could get away with making up a few "Prabhupada said" quotes in order for them to try to control their godbrothers/godsisters, the most infamous of them being, "Your love for me will be shown...!"

[Pratyatosa]

A few minutes ago, Ramesvara Prabhu implied, in his merciful comment on my relevant Facebook post, that he doesn't know where the slogan originated, but that Srila Prabhupada probably approved of it, since Prabhupada, over a period of years, never objected to it. But judging by what Ramesvara said, Prabhupada never specifically stated that he even liked the slogan!: "...this slogan was definitely acceptable and even approved by Srila Prabhupada. We could ask Karandhar Prabhu or Syamasundara Prabhu if you really need to see if they have more information about the origin of this slogan."

Robert Grant My understanding is very simple. This slogan has been around since at least 1970, as it was in Karandhar's early 1971-1972 newsletters and as I learned it from him.

I did use it in BBT newsletters that I began writing in 1973. Every newsletter I ever wrote was sent directly to Srila Prabhupada as well as to all ISKCON centers. I have at least 15-20 letters from Srila Prabhupada in response to BBT newsletters that I wrote, and if anything ever concerned His Divine Grace or if there was anything he had questions about, it would always be in his letters back to me. Based on that I easily concluded that this slogan was definitely acceptable and even approved by Srila Prabhupada. We could ask Karandhar Prabhu or Syamasundara Prabhu if you really need to see if they have more information about the origin of this slogan.

Your aspiring servant, Ramesvara dasa

[Pratyatosa]

Pratyatosa Dasa Thank you for the clarification, Ramesvara Prabhu. Yes. please try to find more information about where this clever slogan actually originated. Also, if it was "around since at least 1970," then why is it in the VedaBase only ONCE, in 1977, and even then was not spoken by Srila Prabhupada? (Prabhupada didn't even seem to be particularly interested in it!)

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Robert Grant Re the Veda Base, it doesn't have the early newsletters written by either Karandhar Prabhu or Syamasundara Prabhu. Don't believe they've also made available early 1970s BBT Newsletter that I wrote- especially since the primary purpose of the Veda Base was to share what Srila Prabhupada had written, not what his disciples wrote to him

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Pratyatosa Dasa Another thing that's very fishy about this slogan is that it didn't start appearing in the Vyasa-puja homages of the ISKCON leaders until 1981, even though, according to you, Ramesvara Prabhu, it was "around since at least 1970," Isn't this a little strange? It's like they didn't want to quote it until they thought that they could get away with saying that Prabhupada said it! 😞

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