Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Pragosh Prabhu, being truthful with oneself is the ...

[Urdh...@aol.com]

Is This The Solution To The Ritvik Debate?

Urdhvaga das: Srila Prabhupada's ritvik instruction, outlined in his letter of July 9, addressed to all devotees is self-explanatory and anyone can understand it whose brain substance is not contaminated by bogus philosophy preached by Iskcons false successor acaryas, self appointed faggots gurus worshiped in a homosexual paedophile guru lineage. Religious propagandist and pseudo-gurus disguised as devotees exploiting the members and assets of the society. -Demoniac Kali-yuga disciples-

Srila Prabhupada: "I am practically seeing that as soon as they, our students, begin to learn a little Sanskrit, they immediately feel they have become more than their guru. Then the policy is to kill their guru and become guru themselves". "As soon as he learns that Guru Maharaj is dead, now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished." (Srila Prabhupada 1976).

"There are many jealous people in the dress of Vaishnavas in this Krishna Consciousness movement, and they should be completely neglected. A false acarya may try to override a vaishnava by a high-court decision, (2/3 hand vote) but Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that he is nothing but a disciple of Kali-yuga." (CC.Madhy., Ch.1, Text 218 / 220, purport)

"A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your intelligence but don't surrender your intelligence." (SP to Bali Mardana, 1974)

Isha das: "I have always felt that Srila Prabhupada wanted those who He appointed Ritvik (as well as other qualified disciples) while he was with us to act as Guru on His departure."

Urdhvaga das: Of course Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to succeed him as guru. Definitely he wanted it, but, but, but, and here lies the big problem, he wanted qualified disciples, he wanted qualified gurus, not some show-bottle gurus, imitator gurus, self-appointed gurus, zonal-acarya gurus, woman-hater gurus, woman-lover gurus, homo-sex-gurus, harassing gurus, ex-communicating gurus, children-abusing gurus, murder-gurus, poison gurus, guru-killer gurus, disco gurus, cow-seller gurus, marijuana gurus, LSD gurus, gopi gurus, reformed gurus, no-mangala-arotik gurus, no-japa gurus, bunglow-sannyasi gurus, retreat gurus, Monika-varnasrama gurus, 3-regulative principles gurus, demon-crazy gurus, movie-mall-menaka gurus, 2/3 hand voted-in gurus, current-link gurus, etc, etc, etc.

Srila Prabhupada said: "First become qualified". We have nothing against any Iskcon gurus, but they first should acquire some qualification and not just imitate, they should not cheat.

Of course, a father likes to see his son to follow him. Of course a high-court judge likes to see his son to succeed him, but first the son has to qualify himself, otherwise he can not take the position of the father. If he tries without qualification to imitate the father, that means impostor, bogus, cheating.

Srila Prabhupada: "All of my disciples will take the legacy. If you want, you can also take it. Sacrifice everything. I--one--may soon pass away. But they are hundreds, and this movement will increase. It's not that I'll give an order: "Here is the next leader." Anyone who follows the previous leadership is a leader... All of my disciples are leaders, as much as they follow purely. If you want to follow, you can also lead. But you don't want to follow. Leader means one who is a first class disciple. Evam param parapraptam. One who follows is perfect." (SP BTG Vol. 13, No. 1-2)

Prabhupada: GURU CHEATING NOT EFFECTIVE (April 22.77).

Prabhupada: People complained against [a GBC for trying to appear as a guru]. ...You become guru, but you must be QUALIFIED FIRST of all. THEN you become. ...What is the use of producing some RASCAL GURU?
Tamala Krishna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are ALL CONDITIONED SOULS, so we CANNOT BE gurus. MAYBE someday it may be possible....
Prabhupada: Hm. [agrees]
Tamala Krishna: ...but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall produce some gurus. I shall say who is guru, 'No you become acharya. You become authorized.' I retire completely. But the training must be COMPLETE.
Tamala Krishna: The process of purification must be there. ...No rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and "guru." What kind of guru?

Jahnu das: "It is foolish beyond measure to impose the condition on Srila Prabhupada that he has to state 48 times that he wanted his disciples to become gurus. Where did Krishna Kant get that idea? Isn't it enough that Srila Prabhupada, as shown below consistently and explicitly expressed his desire for his disciples to succeed him as guru"

Dear Jahnu das,
if anything is foolish beyond measure, then it is people like yourself, who are averse to Srila Prabhupada's continued position as diksa / siksa guru. Please do not think that Srila Prabhupada is dead. Certainly those reason ill who think so. The problem with you people is that you rather like to follow self-appointed bogus Iskcon gurus (conditioned souls who fall down after some time) then to take shelter unto Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada clearly says in his letter to Madhudvisa that the GBC should all be the instructor gurus whereas he will be the initiator guru.

Srila Prabhupada: "This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This is what I want." (to Madhudvisa 4 Aug, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada: "I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and ALL the members of the Society, they're supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are INITIATED BY ME spiritually" - (Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12 March 1968, San Francisco)

Srila Prabhupada: "I wish that each and every branch shall keep their separate identity and cooperate keeping the acharya in the center. On this principle we can open any number of branches all over the world. The Rama Krishna mission works on this principle and thus as an organization they have done wonderfully." (letter 11th Feb. 1967)

Srila Prabhupada: He [Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaja] never recommended anyone tobe acharya of the Gaudiya Math.... If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who wasqualified at that time to be acharya, he would have mentioned. Because on the night beforehe passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acharya. Therefore we may not commit the samemistake in our ISKCON camp. (SrilaPrabhupada, letter to Rupanuga das, April 28, 1974)

"So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected oneacarya and later it proved a failure. THE RESULT IS NOW EVERYONE IS CLAIMING TO BE ACARYAEVEN THOUGH THEY MAY BE KANISTHA ADHIKARI WITH NO ABILITY TO PREACH. IN SOME OF THE CAMPSTHE ACARYA IS BEING CHANGED THREE TIMES A YEAR. THEREFORE WE MAY NOT COMMIT THE SAME MISTAKE IN OUR ISKCON CAMP. ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOMEACARYA." (SPL 74-04-28 Rupanuga)

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Re: Ritvik Debate

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That was quite a powerful collection of quotes.

I have realized there is a certain amount of personal subtle sense
enjoyment that comes with making adjustments to one's company and
surroundings according to changing time, place, and circumstances.

Srila Prabhupada did this job with selflessness and purity. So much
so that he made these adjustments so nicely that he left a legacy of
standard instructions that could deal with anyone who came to his
asramas.

While he was physically present in his Vapu, few would dare change a
standard and claim that without such a change that a new person would
not be able to make spiritual advancement! And those that did were
immediately corrected by Srila Prabhupada and the standard was
reinstated.

So the litmus test for who of his disciples is ACTUALLY ACTING LIKE AN
ACARYA is this.

If a disciple of Srila Prabhupada's feels to make an adjustment to the
standard sadhana, he is making it to satisfy his own need for having a
feeling of power over others that is not natural or deserved. It is
an overly selfish act. Think about it. The disciple already has the
opportunity to tell someone what to do. They are instructing someone
to change their lifestyle according to Prabhupada's standard. But a
new person following Prabhupada's standard WILL NOT RESULT in any
undeserved material benefit for the instructor.

If an instructor simply gives instruction according to SP's standard,
then he gets to exercise his natural tendency to teach and tell others
what to do, but this will not keep the instructor addicted to lording
over others, and the new person will get the standard Srila Prabhupada
insisted on. A win/win situation if one is looking to reduce
dependence on lording it over and make spiritual advancement. A lose/
lose situation if one is looking to take a position they are not
qualified for, out of greed for more power than is necessary.

Anyone who takes instruction and discipline from another person is
involved in a Guru/disciple or Teacher/student relationship. If
someone thinks SP's standards do not apply anymore, they could simply
start their own asrama and movement and test their theory out on some
new people. The future status of those new people will prove the
theory or not.

To date, everyone who has doubted SP's standards has experimented
using SP's physical and intellectual property in an unauthorized
fashion, and evidentially the proof shows that such an experiment is
disastrous.

As for me, what can I do but observe and speak the truth about this
and wait until some of us get the opportunity to prove Srila
Prabhupada was right in demanding his standard be maintained through
official ritvik acaryas? The answer is nothing but wait, observe, and
pray some of his senior disciples who agree with me get the means to
begin again where Srila Prabhupada left us off. I hope I will be
seeing you there.

Hare Krsna

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