ISKCON Australia: "Go Vegan if you cannot keep your own cows!"

[gaura...@gmail.com]

Dear Prabhus,

PAMHO AGTSP!

Just got this reply from an Australian devotee, Vijaya-Govinda das (http://www.krishnacore.com/), who supports that Vaishnavas should stop buying milk from karmis. Any idea?

ys

gd

Vijaya-Govinda das, July 06: You need to also read Prabhupada's clear statements that ISKCON temples and restaurants should be supplied with milk from the farms where the cows are not mistreated or slaughtered. So Devamrita Swami, in reaction to the lack of such farms in many areas (incl Australia), is going in the next best direction - veganism. He also advocates cow protection on farms, I spoke with him just yesterday about just this, but failing that at least we shouldn't justify factory farm hell milk as being pleasing to SP and Krsna any more than offering meat would be - similar amounts of violence occur producing both and the industries are one and the same these days...
So why point the finger at people who are trying to follow Prabhupada's example of perfect non-violence? Perhaps it is that veganism is pulling your guilt strings and the thought of going vegan is like the meat eaters going veg - so even when it makes sense to avoid milk produced with violence and death we try to justify it by saying 'Krsna will help those cows we ofer milk from' but what if we kill YOU and offer your money to Krsna to 'help' you in a future birth. Time we stop this hypocrisy - first by stopping supporting factory farms and ultimately by creating farms as Prabhupada instructed which produce cruelty free milk for all devotees. Peace  ;0)

[Ameyatma das (ACBSP)]

Devamrita is a fool

First, Srila Prabhupad gave the instruction that our farms supply milk.    Baring that,  he, from his own example he had us buy the milk from the existing dairies.   That is his own example.  What is wanted is we get milk from our own cows.   The only alternative he showed by his own example was  until that is possible,  then we must buy the milk,  because milk is needed.   Milk is required to form and maintain the finer brain tissues.   Without those finer brain tissues one will not understand the finer aspects of Krsna-Prem.   Krishna is NOT a Vegan.  Gopal - Govinda   wants His milk.  

He is simply concocting and making more chaos.

Rather then promote Vegan why doesn't he set up working farm communities and carry out SP's actual instructions,  rather then concocting some non-sense.

If I had the time,  I would love to do a streaming Vaishnav News video broadcast,   news and Commentary   ...   the mass devotees need to have a place to go to hear opposing views.  

ys ameya

[Bhaktatraveler]

Yes, now this is the brahminical and practical answer. All this so-called vegan junk is a sham.   Hare Krsna RCB   --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ameyatma das (ACBSP) <amey...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP]

The idea is to offer Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa what He likes to eat, according to Śrīla Prabhupāda’s instructions, and then to partake of the remnants. If Kṛṣṇa liked to eat meat, then we would eat meat! We are simply His humble servants.

At the same time, Śrīla Prabhupāda has told us that cow killing is extremely sinful. Therefore, we should do whatever we can to try to promote the production of violence free dairy products (http://feedacow.com/) because this is Śrīla Prabhupāda’s instructions to us, his disciples and followers.

How can a vegan diet even be healthful? We have to get animal fat from somewhere! The way that Kṛṣṇa intended for this to happen is through the mercy of mother cow. Kṣatriyas may also hunt wild animals in the forest and eat what they kill. In the case of the lower than śūdra class, they may also eat the flesh of animals that have died naturally of old age.

Your servant, Pratyatoṣa Dāsa

[mark mclaughlin]

Currently, in America, there are an abundance of milk choices at the big chain supermarkets.   1. Least expensive = Big Brand Factory Farm milk.  All bad stuff in it and arguably very unhealthy for the human body.   2. Next, (negligibly more expensive) = Big Brand Milk WITHOUT Growth Hormone and Antibiotics.  The cows are not fed organic diet, so there will be traces of the chemical fertilizers and pesticides used to grow the feed they are provided.    3. Next, 50-100% more expensive = Organic Milk.  No Hormones, Antibiotics, pesticides, chemical fertilizers, herbicides, fungicides, and the cows may even be pastured most of the year and treated quite well, depending on the company.  Found in every major supermarket chain.  Very clean for the human body.   All the above are usually pasteurized and homogenized.  Homogenization is less than desirable, but won't kill you.  We Vedicans tend to boil our milk, so pasteurization doesn't affect us, as that is all it really is.   4. Next, in some cases, A local organic dairy may sell pasteurized but non-homogenized milk.  More expensive, but very good.   Easy to find in health food stores, rarely in supermarkets.   5. In rarest cases, these dairies will offer raw milk labled "for pets" and some stores will stock them.  Usually only health food stores.  This is the most unadulterated product, and very expensive.   The point is that Organic milk is available just about everywhere, is usually fairly healthy, the cows are usually treated 100 times better than factory farms, and can be used to make moderate offerings without breaking a budget.   Until one gets their milking cow that is.   Hare Krsna   --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

[mv...@yahoo.com]

Dear Gaur Kishor prabhu, Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO I hope all is well. Obviously the best thing would be/have been that ISKCON followed Srila Prabhupada's instructions for making farms, and protecting cows; this including using their milk for Krsna.   Yes, Kali's progress has come so far, that wherever cows are being used (unless their is proper understanding of our relationship with them), they are being abused - dairy or non-dairy cows.   If (pretend) everyone was to go vegan, no one was to drink milk, eat butter, cheese, etc., then people would only be using cows for meat; killing them so much more faster.   Certainly this does NOT mean that I'm saying "Keep them around for milk even though they're getting abused." In the ultimate what it really means is that we should be implementingn Srila Prabhupada's instructions by starting farms, purchasing and protecting cows, and using their milk for offering to Krsna (and His devotees), then everyone except the cow ab/users will be happy.   Certainly Devamrta, along with all these other Greedy Bastards Club members have PLENTY of money and manpower - IF they would give proper instructions in this regard - to start in fulfilling Srila Prabhupada's instructions in these regards. (If they would stop jetsetting all over the place, and for some of them, use the money for building their OWN houses - sannyasis with their OWN houses??? - to instead build barns, etc. then certainly these desires/instructions Srila Prabhupada expressed could/would  be facilitated.)   So Devamrta's "solution" to the problem is to not offer to Krsna any milk or milk products? Just let all the cows be killed directly for meat? Having gone to Yale, and hearing from Srila Prabhupada's Lotus Lips for so many years, one would think the dev had developed more intelligence by now... to simply have come up with this "solution". Your servant, Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare --- On Sun, 7/5/09, gaura...@gmail.com <gaura...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Bhaktatraveler]

Hare Krsna Pratyatosa   Again another lucid devotee gives the proper conclusion. Not to vegan-ism but to develop cow protection, communal environments, to produce our own milk and other food stuffs.   In 1999 I moved to Alachua and rang the DVAD bell to all and anyone. Especially to the so-called Ritvk devotees I was associated with. Like I've done since 74' If a start had ensued then, we would have milk today! We will never have anything unless we cooperatively start it. How to start? Divide by guna and karma. In other words follow the Guru!   People like this Devamrita will always have cheap followers that came to him to be cheated. We need to see a thing as it really is by the guidance of the brahman(Srila Prabhupada) first, and call BS where applicable, where necessary.   Thank you prabhu   Caturbahu das

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <praty...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: ISKCON Australia: "Go Vegan if you cannot keep your own cows!" To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 10:24 AM

The idea is to offer Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa what He likes to eat, according to Śrīla Prabhupāda’s instructions, and then to partake of the remnants. If Kṛṣṇa liked to eat meat, then we would eat meat! We are simply His humble servants. At the same time, Śrīla Prabhupāda has told us that cow killing is extremely sinful. Therefore, we should do whatever we can to try to promote the production of violence free dairy products (http://feedacow.com/) because this is Śrīla Prabhupāda’s instructions to us, his disciples and followers. How can a vegan diet even be healthful? We have to get animal fat from somewhere! The way that Kṛṣṇa intended for this to happen is through the mercy of mother cow. Kṣatriyas may also hunt wild animals in the forest and eat what they kill. In the case of the lower than śūdra class, they may also eat the flesh of animals that have died naturally of old age. Your servant, Pratyatoṣa Dāsa

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes, now this is the brahminical and practical answer. All this so-called vegan junk is a sham.   Hare Krsna RCB   --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ameyatma das (ACBSP) <amey...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Ameyatma das (ACBSP) <amey...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: ISKCON Australia: "Go Vegan if you cannot keep your own cows!" To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 3:07 AM

Devamrita is a fool First, Srila Prabhupad gave the instruction that our farms supply milk.    Baring that,  he, from his own example he had us buy the milk from the existing dairies.   That is his own example.  What is wanted is we get milk from our own cows.   The only alternative he showed by his own example was  until that is possible,  then we must buy the milk,  because milk is needed.   Milk is required to form and maintain the finer brain tissues.   Without those finer brain tissues one will not understand the finer aspects of Krsna-Prem.   Krishna is NOT a Vegan.  Gopal - Govinda   wants His milk.   He is simply concocting and making more chaos. Rather then promote Vegan why doesn't he set up working farm communities and carry out SP's actual instructions,  rather then concocting some non-sense. If I had the time,  I would love to do a streaming Vaishnav News video broadcast,   news and Commentary   ...   the mass devotees need to have a place to go to hear opposing views.   ys ameya gaura...@gmail.com wrote:

[pdhed...@yahoo.com]

Hello Ameyatma prabhu,   PAMHO AGTSP Hare Krsna   This particular case of Devamrita Das and his embracing the philosophy (if that is a good way to describe it) of veganism - is a perfect opportunity to highlight Srila Prabhupada's careful arrangements for the management of the Krsna Consciousness movement - as he described it "under the banner of ISKCON".   As I have tried consistently to point out whenver possible - Srila Prabhupada very carefully and most expertly - provided all of his 4734 disiciples the needed "means" to infiltrate the existing world  with the simplicity of Krsna Consciousness.   He left nothing to chance in this department.   From 1970 - to 1977 - upon Incorporating his particular mission - he systematically put both the powers and the disabilities of his representatives in place - and placed them in the Public Record.   The list of so-called "problems" that have visited ISKCON since 1978 is long. However - what is not really understood by the men and women who committed their all to HDG from '67-'77 - is that most if not all of these "problems" had  already visited Srila Prabhupada's mission in some way or other - and he had both dealt with them in an exemplary fashion at that time - and had likewise taken the trouble to leave us the means to deal with them if or when they again manifested.   When various speculators had shown their true colors during his stay with us - he dealt their various speculations swift and lethal blows.   This promotion of the vegan philosophy by Devamrita Das is merely the remnants of New Vrindavana again showing its effects once more.   Kirtanananda Das and his cronies from NV - were saturated with deluded need to see themselves as the elect or chosen - amongst ISKCON devotees: their need to "innovate" was hyped by them as simply employing the "utility is the principle" maxim - when it was really just their need to appear as wiser than their guru. KD was and is contaminated with mayavada conclusions.   Vegan - ism is hokum and denies a simple reality that is easily understood by even a child: "Daddy - what is that for?" as he looks upon some tool in his toolbox. "Mommy what does that do?" as she spies a spatula in the kitchen. It was the American architect Louis Sullivan who expressed this very succinctly in a simple and relevant poem:   It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic, Of all things physical and metaphysical, Of all things human and all things super-human, Of all true manifestations of the head, Of the heart, of the soul, That the life is recognizable in its expression, That form ever follows function. This is the law   The function of the cow and the bull -  fully reveal or explain their form.  Their function vis a vis mankind in general,  likewise establishes why they were created by Lord Krsna. Even disregarding the Vedic statements on these most important members of society - mankind has always recognized their role in some capacity as servant. The Vedic culture is of course the most refined and informed as to the full measure of these animals' ability to contribute to the general welfare of mankind - for as we all know - the essence of the Vedas is encapsulated in Bagavad Gita and therein - the general welfare of mankind is clearly expressed as only possible - where mankind is engaged in legitimate sacrifice and such sacrifice includes the offering of not just the acceptable but what is perfect foodstuffs to the Lord for His satisfaction. Such perfect foods are foodstuffs in the mode of goodness and begin with ghee, milk and yogurt.   In addition to these by-products from the cow and bull - they play other significant roles in their service to mankind; principally their daily production of sacred dung - "new earth" and their highly beneficial cow urine. Serving mankind in this way - these highly advanced entities are engaged directly in the service of Lord Krsna and from this body they can advance to the brahminical platform when they attain human birth.   To adopt Veganism is to adopt Vegatarinism under a more atheistic philosophy - but masked by a purported "concern" for the suffering of the animals in the present system. It denies the purpose of the Lord behind HIS creation of the  Cow and Bull in the first place.   We are not vegatarians. We are aspiring Vaisnavas and we do not single out the butcher and his market(the meat eaters) in our efforts to share Krsna Consciousness. Devotees are naturally 'vegatarians" but only in the sense that we only accept the remnants of Krsna's breakfast,lunch and dinner. Since he does not accept meat or fish - we - confining our meals to HIS remnants only - likewise naturally do not consume such. However if HE DID CONSUME SUCH then - confining our meals to HIS remnants would obviate our consuming such as well. Vegatarians on the other hand are not naturally devotees and this nonsense Veganism is the perfect example of this reality.   This was Srila Prabhupada's clear teachings to us and Devamrta Das is duty bound to pass on this exact teaching of our Parampara. His authority is "representative" only.   Now - in lieu of the fact that Srila Prabhupada not only expected - HE DEMANDED that all men who functioned in HIS ISKCON MISSION in an "official" capacity - as "fiduciary" agents of Srila Prabhupada - would swear to and sign his mandated "Oath of Allegiance" if Devamrta Das represents himself as an "agent" of ISKCON and has indeed signed his OATH OF ALLEGIANCE to Srila Prabhupada as "The Supreme Authority for Krsna Consciousness - under the banner of Iskcon" (OOA-1977) - then his "coming out" as misrepresenting ISKCON and HDG Srila Prabhuapda with his own adoption of this atheistic hokum called Veganism - immediately places him in a state of violation of his sworn oath. He is now in "breach of Trust" in his relationship with Srila Prabhupada - and all devotees who come under his leadership.   This matter provides  further evidence of why Srila Prabhupada arranged the management system of ISKCON as he did.   Devamtra Das is presented as sannyasa, guru and also it would appear as GBC. He is wearing three hats - and is likely also represented "legally" as "president" of whatever "corporation" serves as his means of receiving "tax exempt" contributions from the public.   I will gues that he is in fact NOT incorporated as ISKCON INC.   I will also gues that he is in fact listed as a Corporate officer of some kind - probably president.   If he is entitled as GBC man as well - then the whole thing is a mish mash of hokum - all meant to provide him the means to reach in and control the flow of money and manpower in whatever center he is "selling" his noxious blend of mayavada - all for the purposeful end of creating a "rapport" with a yet to be fleeced segment of the unsuspecting public. Their implulse to see to the end of the suffering of domestic animals who are presently misused and abused - is being capitalized upon by this NEW Vrndavana Hustler and under Srila Prabhupada's excellent system of checks and balances he provided us - this charlatan's nonsense could be dealt a swift and lethal blow.   We need not worry about him however. We just need to set up the system and in time - all such bogus hokum - will reveal itself for what it is and will be dealt with swiftly - with little to no fanfare at all.   Just some observations   Praghosa

[gaura...@gmail.com]

Dear Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda  prabhu,

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Desa, kala, patra. Things in the EU look like the EU GBC made a deal with the EU commission. They receive EU furtherance, cash, when running Hindu schools with costs. But get endless hassle from the same people when opening farms. In the eighties we were realy about to start an agricultural break through all over Europe. People were so resceptive, devotees were joining, everybody spoke of having Vaishnava villages everywhere. And it would have been easy. Already at that time our GBC must have been corrupted, very strange things happened on and on to make Prabhupada's farm project a purposeful failure. They made it look like it was the incompetence of the devotees. But this is wrong, when looking at every single case more closely how things fell apart. Now they fool everyone by telling, look, how it works in Hungary, everything ideal, if it works there, where there was communism till 1986, it surely would have worked everywhere else if only the devotees would not have been so spaced out and spoiled it. This is their argument. However, in Hungary it again depends upon one single person to crash the whole yatra whenever he likes, Sivarama swami. He can do what he likes, mortgage the whole thing, sell the land, all those devotee would be the same victims like it happened before. This is ISKCON, although they saw how Prabhupada's movement was spoiled in Switzerland, Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Scandinavia, etc etc., they still allow a yatra like Hungary  to be the private property of one person who happens to be the same appointed conditioned ego like the rest of the already fallen gang. As soon someone would dare to ask this question, what happens with the yatra when Sivarama leaves, they would immediately kick this devotee out.  No protection device, no written agreement that the yatra would be protected in case this szenario of crashing a yatra by a single rascal would repeat itself. 

Ok, problem seems that the Hungarian language is like Finnish, a language nobody easily understands, and the Hungarian devotees mostly don't speak English, don't understand any other language. So it is rather difficult to inform these folks. 

The policy all over Europ is simple. Farms who don't abide the dictate of the EU agricultural commission don't receive furtherance and are taxed in such a way that even karmi farmers run into debt. 

!970, alone in Austria there were 100,000 farms. Today about 5000. And these 5000 struggling to survive, protesting for not getting enough paid to make it. When Prabhupada lectured in Sweden he explained all this very clearly, politicians simply want to boycott self-sufficient farming by tax increase. Instead of the devotees strongly working together and to overcome the rascal politicians, at one point, especially when gurus blooped, lost faith and started to fight against each other, joined Narayana swami. Especially Germany, all ISKCONites joined Narayana Swami. 

So what is to be done, to first create a prabhupadanuga society of new devotees who develop faith that things are 100% safe and successful with Prabhupada in the center. 

So long this first goal isn't reached there is no use to think of anything else. Think of Prabhupada on the Bovery, he wouldn't never have considered to start worship deities and spent time in cooking offerings for deities. He only focused on preaching programs and to make devotees. 

This is where we are right now, all Prabhupada disciples joined Narayana swami, we need to make new devotees.

ys

gd

 

2009/7/6 <mv...@yahoo.com>

[Anuttama]

When my daughter was dating a vegan and leaning towards veganism, I
had a hard time justifying participating with the abominable dairy
industry. Then Krsna arranged that I got a call from a lady I know
who runs a museum where children get to experience pioneer life. They
keep a cow and let the children milk her. However when they close for
3 months durning the winter, they usually sell the cow and get a new
one in the Spring. The museum lady wanted to know if I'd care for the
cow for 3 months and keep her milking. This was an opportunity to get
really great milk for my Deities without the responsibility of a full
time cow. I've been doing this for 3 years now. When the cow, Rain,
needed to be bred to continue giving milk, I arranged for the breeding
and suggested that the museum give me the calf. They agreed and now
we have Dhana who is expecting her own calf in January. This is an
example of my Deities tricking me into taking responsibility. However
having the cow has been a satisfying experience and I've taught
neighborhood children to milk and make cheese.

We need to be good examples and live the way Srila Prabhupada
instructed us. Purchasing milk 40 years after being told to protect
cows is pathetic. Yes, we can justify buying milk. That doesn't make
it right.

The day after I brought the museum cow to a neighborhood dairy to be
bred I got a call from the man who owns the diary. He asked me if I'd
like a bull calf that had been born that morning. The heifers, he
explained are worth about $300, but the bulls have no value. I wasn't
in a position to take the little bull (or any of the 150 subsequent
bull calves that he had that year), but I unfortunately imagined what
he did to the little guy after talking to me.

Rather than work hard to justify using milk produced in such a way,
let's live properly and be great examples.

Anuttama

[Nathan Zakheim]

Please do not forget about Vitamin D-3, present in all but raw milk, which is made from FISH OIL!...(Vitamin D-2 is vegetarian)

[Jeff Dunan]

This is SO right on target! is there anyone out there who can find fault with this analysis? If not ... then what are we DOING about this four decades after our Guru's arrival in Boston??? Just curious........ Srila Prabhupada said, "Everyone wants to be brahmana. No one wants to work in the field" He also said, of course, "Produce your own food." and "Get your own land and cows, and all of your material problems will be solved". I beg to remain in His service, Vasanta dasa --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Anuttama <alice...@att.net> wrote:

From: Anuttama <alice...@att.net> Subject: Re: ISKCON Australia: "Go Vegan if you cannot keep your own cows!"

[Bhaktatraveler]

Yes, get your own land if you have means. NOW! Do not wait another 4 decades for your movement to act, they will never do the needful! Neither will the devotee next to you. You must do individually!   4 decades latter ISKCON is a joke, we are a joke as a movement in the US of A. No one is brahman that does not preach as Prabhupada instructed about DVAD. Don't be cheap(cheating yourself) and accept anything less from those that pose as the brahman class. And tell them to get out of management!   This ksatriya has no fear of being dirty and working hard on the land, hand in hand with any willing soul. Srila Prabhupada is the only qualified brahman that preaches about DVAD I know. He is my brahman, I follow Him. Just in case there is confision who is my brahman.   I'm from Missouri all others need to show quality before their pretense is displayed. Or I go on the attack, as is part of my service.   Vasanta das's mood is right on! What to speak of Anuttama, whom has been blessed with nice facility and any others that do(walk) and preach(the talk) as she does on the importance of DVAD!   Hare Krsna   RCB --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Jeff Dunan <jeff...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[MARIO PINEDA]

Dear Vasanta dasa prabhu. Hare Krishna.
 
You seem ready to invest money time and energy in fulfilling the practical order of Srila Prabhupada to have land and cows and solve the material problems. So give me another call. 10 acres with water I have been selling, is coming back to me. The buyer can not pay. I also have 2.5 acres with an agricultural water meter. The idea would be to sell these two lots and buy a bigger parcel in a better area. So we must try hard to walk the talk!! 661-722-8256
 
Sincerely,
 
Mahatma dasa 
 

 

---

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:09:21 -0700
From: jeff...@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: ISKCON Australia: "Go Vegan if you cannot keep your own cows!"

To: istag...@googlegroups.com

[Gadadhara das]

Prabhuji,   PAMHO . AGTSP! Vitamin D3 is one of these 3 things: Cow Brains, Pig Skin, or Sheep's Wool. I spoke with Clover and the rep said that they use Sheep's Wool, but others may use Cow Brain or Pig Skin. Vitamin D2 used to be made with fish oil, but its cheaper now to make it with a vegetable source. But in any case almost all of the mainstream dairies use D3 now. Im all the milk and yogurt too! ------------ If you see Vitamin D3 in the ingredients,  your health is at risk: According to http://www.healthwise.org/ , a website that even promotes the D3 so-called vitamin (which by the way does not even fit the definition of a Vitamin) D3 can be detrimental to your health and if you are pregnant your baby is at risk also. "Vitamin D is in the FDA pregnancy category C. This means that it is not known whether doses of cholecalciferol [D3] larger than the recommended daily allowance will harm an unborn baby. Do not take supplemental cholecalciferol without first talking to your doctor if you are pregnant." ~ [http://health.yahoo.com/nutrition-supplements/cholecalciferol-vitamin-d3/healthwise--d03129a1.html] "When a fortified food or supplement label says 'vitamin D3 or "cholecalciferol,' that means the origin was animal (generally fish, but sometimes from sheep wool, hides or other animal parts such as cattle brains). Often milk or margarine, which may be thought of as vegetarian products, will contain vitamin D3 of animal origin. We have even found supplements that are labeled 'vegetarian,' yet contain Vitamin D3; upon further inquiry, the suppliers were surprised to realize that the Vitamin D used was of animal origin. Occasionally a soymilk can be found that uses D3 instead of D2, though most have chosen the D2 (plant) form and clearly list D2 on the nutrition panel." ~ [http://www.vegparadise.com/news19.html] Raw milk is good provided that you boil 3 times before drinking it. Another alternative is Straus Family Creamery http://www.strausfamilycreamery.com/ AVOID THESE MILK COMPANIES: CLOVER VERISON BERKELEY FARMS AND ANY OTHER COMPANIES USING D3, WHICH IS A HORMONE NOT A VITAMIN! articles 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3: a novel immunoregulatory hormone CD Tsoukas, DM Provvedini, and SC Manolagas The hormonal form of vitamin D3, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 [1,25(OH)2D3], at picomolar concentrations, inhibited the growth-promoting lymphokine interleukin-2, which is produced by human T lymphocytes activated in vitro by the mitogen phytohemagglutinin. Other metabolites of vitamin D3 were less effective than 1,25(OH)2D3 in suppressing interleukin-2; their order of potency corresponded to their respective affinity for the 1,25(OH)2D3 receptor, suggesting that the effect on interleukin-2 was mediated by this specific receptor. The proliferation of mitogen-activated lymphocytes was also inhibited by 1,25(OH)2D3. This effect of the hormone became more pronounced at later stages of the culture. These findings demonstrate that 1,25(OH)2D3 is an immunoregulatory hormone. [http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/224/4656/1438] --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Nathan Zakheim <zak...@earthlink.net> wrote:

From: Nathan Zakheim <zak...@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: ISKCON Australia: "Go Vegan if you cannot keep your own cows!" To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 11:36 PM

Please do not forget about Vitamin D-3, present in all but raw milk, which is made from FISH OIL!...(Vitamin D-2 is vegetarian)

On Jul 6, 2009, at 7:48 AM, mark mclaughlin wrote:

Currently, in America, there are an abundance of milk choices at the big chain supermarkets.   1. Least expensive = Big Brand Factory Farm milk.  All bad stuff in it and arguably very unhealthy for the human body.   2. Next, (negligibly more expensive) = Big Brand Milk WITHOUT Growth Hormone and Antibiotics.  The cows are not fed organic diet, so there will be traces of the chemical fertilizers and pesticides used to grow the feed they are provided.    3. Next, 50-100% more expensive = Organic Milk.  No Hormones, Antibiotics, pesticides, chemical fertilizers, herbicides, fungicides, and the cows may even be pastured most of the year and treated quite well, depending on the company.  Found in every major supermarket chain.  Very clean for the human body.   All the above are usually pasteurized and homogenized.  Homogenization is less than desirable, but won't kill you.  We Vedicans tend to boil our milk, so pasteurization doesn't affect us, as that is all it really is.   4. Next, in some cases, A local organic dairy may sell pasteurized but non-homogenized milk.  More expensive, but very good.   Easy to find in health food stores, rarely in supermarkets.   5. In rarest cases, these dairies will offer raw milk labled "for pets" and some stores will stock them.  Usually only health food stores.  This is the most unadulterated product, and very expensive.   The point is that Organic milk is available just about everywhere, is usually fairly healthy, the cows are usually treated 100 times better than factory farms, and can be used to make moderate offerings without breaking a budget.   Until one gets their milking cow that is.   Hare Krsna   --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <praty...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: ISKCON Australia: "Go Vegan if you cannot keep your own cows!" To: istag...@googlegroups.com

Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 10:24 AM

The idea is to offer Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa what He likes to eat, according to Śrīla Prabhupāda’s instructions, and then to partake of the remnants. If Kṛṣṇa liked to eat meat, then we would eat meat! We are simply His humble servants. At the same time, Śrīla Prabhupāda has told us that cow killing is extremely sinful. Therefore, we should do whatever we can to try to promote the production of violence free dairy products (http://feedacow.com/) because this is Śrīla Prabhupāda’s instructions to us, his disciples and followers. How can a vegan diet even be healthful? We have to get animal fat from somewhere! The way that Kṛṣṇa intended for this to happen is through the mercy of mother cow. Kṣatriyas may also hunt wild animals in the forest and eat what they kill. In the case of the lower than śūdra class, they may also eat the flesh of animals that have died naturally of old age. Your servant, Pratyatoṣa Dāsa

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes, now this is the brahminical and practical answer. All this so-called vegan junk is a sham.

Hare Krsna RCB

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ameyatma das (ACBSP) <amey...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Ameyatma das (ACBSP) <amey...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: ISKCON Australia: "Go Vegan if you cannot keep your own cows!" To: istag...@googlegroups.com