What kind of guru are you?
Gary Lund
An Open Letter to Vaisyaseka Prabhu.
Dear Vaisyaseka Prabhu,
Please accept my respectful obeisance's. All glories to our jagat
guru, Srila Prabhupada!
I have been friends with you for many years and look forward to a
lifetime and more of friendship with you. I have been going back and
forth with the decision to write you and ultimately I feel my
supersoul and Srila Prabhupada wants me to. So I would like to have a
heart to heart comunication with you. I am writing an open letter so
our Godbrothers and the whole movement may benefit also.
I have recently learned that you have taken on the role of a diksa
guru in ISKCON. I have read your first initiation speech. I like the
part where you stress maintaining a humble attitude and I hope it
comes true for all of us. When you described the 10/11 offenses to the
Holy Names the third one struck a cord with me.
As you may know I was one of Srila Prabhupada's personal servants back
in 1977. I was in Hrishikesh with Srila Prabhupada when he first told
us that he wanted to go to Vrindavan to leave his body. This was mid-
May. So we went to Vrindavan the next day where Prabhupada asked to
see all of the devotees in his room. After all the devotees that could
settled in, Srila Prabhupada started to speak. He said that he had
come to Vrindavan to leave his body but we devotees didn't need to
lament because he would live on in his books. There is a tape of this
arrival address. Half of the devotees including Yasosanandan Swami,
began to cry and begged Srila Prabhupada not to leave. It was a sad
shock to us all to hear these words from His Divine Grace.
About a week later I was attending to Srila Prabhupada in his garden
when his secretary asked him if he would appoint a guru to succeed him
after his departure. Prabhupada said that he would appoint ritvik
representatives who would initiate on his behalf.
Later on May 28th 1977, there was a GBC meeting in Srila Prabhupada's
room in Vrindavan. It's on tape. Knowing Srila Prabhupada already said
he was getting ready to leave the planet the questions concerned the
future of the movement after his departure. So Satsvarupa asked how
initiations would go on after his departure and Prabhupada said that
he would appoint 'officiating acharyas'. Hearing that the secretary,
TKG, asked if that was also called a 'ritvik' having heard him mention
it earlier and Prabhupada said, "ritvik yes."
He said he would appoint them later.
Later on July 5th I was attending to Prabhupada in his garden in the
morning as usual when Tamal read some letters to Prabhupada. They were
from temple presidents asking for initiation approval for their local
devotees. Srila Prabhupada said that he would appoint some ritvik
representatives soon. Then on July 7th he heard more requests for
initiations and started to name the first group of ritvik
representatives of the acharya. The secretary said that all the
devotees the reps. Initiated would still be Srila Prabhupada's
disciples and Srila Prabhupada said, "Yes."
So it was understood by the secretary, TKG and I thought this is what
would happen. Needless to say I was shocked to see what happened after
His Divine Grace left.
On July 9th 1977, TKG read the Newsletter to all GBC's and Temple
Presidents back to Prabhupada, who dictated it on the 7th, and he
approved it and signed it. This is the final order on Iskcon
initiations that Srila Prabhupada gave.
I heard and saw all of this and more. I have tried to tell the GBC
these facts but so far they have refused to allow me time to address
them. So individually I try to inform them when I get the opportunity.
I told Navayogendra Swami years ago in LA and he accepted that he
should be a ritvik representative and promised he would; but when the
GBC found out they gave him an ultimatum to give up ritvik or leave
Iskcon. He choose to stay and it's hard to blame him for that.
Trivikrama had a dream a few years ago where Prabhupada told him to
ask Yasodanandan and myself about the guru issue. When he came to
Mangala Aritika in Berkeley I was there, which is rare, the morning
after his dream. The Swami approached me and asked to hear what I
heard from Srila Prabhupada. I spent about an hour going through the
events and he seemed to accept it and asked what he should do next. I
said he should try to convince the GBC members. It seems he either hit
a brick wall or didn't even try at all.
I talked to my old friend Bhakti Charu Swami, in Srila Prabhupada's
garden in LA and told him what I heard and he said that he tells his
initiates that Srila Prabhupada is their 'delivering guru' and he is
just helping them take shelter of Srila Prabhupada. I said the others
don't say that and it would be good if he could talk to them about it.
We had a GBC initiation debate in San Deigo Temple in Jan. 1990 and at
the end of that nice debate is was voted on by the NA GBC that another
debate would occur at the next Mayapur Goura Pouranima festival.
Instead of allowing the next voted on debate the GBC banned any
discussion of the ritvik initiation system in Iskcon and any devotees
discussing it would be banned from the temples.
So here we are today. I was surprised to hear that you had also taken
that path. That is why I felt oblidged to tell you all this. So the
order of the spiritual master is to initiate on his behalf. You can
continue to be a spiritual leader, a ritvik representitive is a very
honorable position and responsibility. It's unfortunate that it has
been made a bad name and system since it came from the lotus mouth of
His Divine Grace. So you should tell the devotees that you authorized
for initiation that they should worship Srila Prabhupada and they are
his disciples. You can be and are their siksa guru and ritvik
representitive but the diksa guru is one, Srila Prabhupada. You won't
find one quote where Srila Prabhupada says that we can be diksa gurus
in Iskcon. If you analize all the 'be a guru' quotes; you will see
they all refer to preaching, to being siksa gurus.
The guru issue is one of the hardest issues to understand so it is of
utmost importance that we study exactly what Srila Prabhupada ordered
in regards to initiations after his physical departure. That way we
will be able to follow the orders of the Spiritual Master and not
commit the third offense to the Holy Name and the Guru which would
also offend the Lord Krsna Himself!
Srila Prabhupada did not act like a guru in his guru's temples. That
is against Vaisnava tradition. If you are an uttama adikari you can
become a diksa guru and deliver your disciples but you should follow
the example of our guru and do it in your own temples. Srila
Prabhupada asked us to show our love for him by cooperating and that's
why he so intelligently set up the ritvik initiation system to keep us
all united working for the common cause, spreading love of God.
Some will claim that I and the other ritvik advocates are just envious
and offensive to the modern day gurus. I can assure you that is not
the case. But we want the mission to succeed and in order for that to
happen we have to follow the orders of the spiritual master. Then we
can cooperate much better and unify, purify and expand the greatest
mission on earth, the International Society for Krsna Consciousness.
As Krsna told Arjuna the teachings of Bhagavad Gita then asked him to
deliberate on it and then do as he saw fit; I have told you what I
heard from the lotus mouth of His Divine Grace and now it is up to you
to do what you think is right. I hope you keep your request to
maintain a humble attitude and follow your heart and your our
spiritual master. And if you do take the side if the Pandavas like
Bangalore Temple, who so nicely follow Srila Prabhupada's orders and
distribute more mercy than any other temple in the world it would be
fantastic. We could use another great general in Sri Sri Guru and
Gouranga's Sankirtan Army to win the war against maya for Srila
Prabhupada and Lord Krsna. Then you will be a victorious part of the
solution; not the problem.
I feel this is my mission in life; to keep this issue alive. I was
electrocuted in front of Srila Prabhupada who could no longer walk to
pull the plug that was shocking me. But he called out to Upendra
Prabhu who came out and pulled the plug. I thought I really died. I
was unconcious for about 2 hours. When I came back Srila Prabhupada
called me into his room and compassionately asked if I was alright. I
felt embarassed to have made such a scene and sheepishly answered that
I was alright. Then he said that I should take that as a good lesson
that death can come at any moment and we should always be ready. I
thanked him for being my real loving father and offered my
obeisance's. Later I thought and still do sometimes that it would of
been better if I left this world then and there; I would of went back
home being in the direct service of the guru in Sri Vrindavan Dham.
Then I think Krsna and Prabhupada saved me to keep this most important
issue alive.
It was almost a lost case until Rupa Vilasa and others found the
evidence, especially the July 9th Newsletter, and other evidence and
presented it so nicely at the one and only so far debate. For years I
was going on just my memories and Yasoda's diary and was called a liar
by TKG and Suhotra and others; but when I heard the tapes and saw the
Newsletter I was vindicated but am still awaiting the final verdict.
Whatever you decide you have been an inspiration to so many for so
long and will continue because it's your nature and we love you for
all your great service. Please forgive me for being so bold to write
you this open letter and keep me as one of your many freinds and fans.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Hoping this meets you well,
Your servant,
Gauridasa Pandita Dasa
Chant HARE KRSNA
And your life will be sublime!
gaura...@gmail.com
Prabhupadanugas UK: What type of gurus did Srila Prabhupada want?
In BTP we have explained repeatedly that Srila Prabhupada’s constant calls for everyone to “become guru”; 
such as -
“Because people are in darkness, we require many millions of gurus to
enlighten them. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission is, He said,
that, “Every one of you become guru. Amara ajnaya guru haya tara ei
desa.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 21/5/1976)
- can only refer to siksa (instructing) gurus, or additional
preacher gurus who assist the diksa guru. This is evidenced by the fact
that such instructions are given in conjunction with Lord Caitanya’s
instruction to “become guru” from Caitanya-caritamtra, Madhya-lila
7:128, as above (amara ajnaya guru). The purports to this verse states:
“one should stay at home [...] it is best not to accept any disciples.”
(Sri Caitanya caritamtra,Madhya-lila 7:128-30, purports)
In addition, these orders to “become guru” are given without Srila
Prabhupada stating that he needs to leave the planet before the guru
order can be acted on, which would be normal if a diksa guru was being
referred to.
Thus, all this makes it clear that Srila Prabhupada is referring to
everyone in ISKCON becoming only siksa, and not diksa, gurus.
Less qualified gurus
In addition, another factor which makes it abundantly clear that Srila
Prabhupada’s call for gurus refers to siksa, rather than diksa, gurus,
is that he states that such gurus can be less qualified, or even have
no qualification:
“‘There is no need of qualification.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 21/5/76)
“So who cannot do it? Anyone can do it, even a child.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, 25/1/77)
Whereas the diksa guru, must possess the highest level of
qualification: “When one has attained the topmost position of
maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly
like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible
to occupy the post of a guru.”
(Sri Caitanya-caritamtra, Madhya-lila, 24.330, purport)
“One should not become a Spiritual Master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari.”
(Nectar of lnstruction, Text 5, purport)
ISKCON leader agrees
Now one of ISKCON’s leaders has agreed; adopting the IRM’s position
that the way forward for ISKCON is for many less qualified rather than
a few so called highly qualified gurus which, as we saw in the last
section, means siksa rather than diksa gurus: “We need more gurus. Not remote, world traveling, highly qualified
gurus, but locally accessible, less qualified gurus. Thousands of them.”
(“ISKCON: More gurus needed!”; The Vaishnava Voice, September 4th, 2008).
The leader in question is His Grace Kripamoya Das (”KMD”), who is the
Chairman of ISKCON’s European Council and the Congregational Preaching
Director for the UK.
Local house gurus
And to leave the reader in no doubt as to what type of guru he is
referring, KMD concludes that we need thousands of men and women acting
in the capacity of gurus in their local neighbourhoods: “By guru I mean
someone who is prepared to personally roll up their sleeves and accept
responsibility for the spiritual welfare of a number of named
individuals. No wide broadcasting of messages; no generic teaching to
anonymous masses; but teaching, guidance, support to named people in a
local area. Only with thousands of men and women doing this will we be
able to do what this great mission was set up to do.”
(“ISKCON: More gurus needed!”; The Vaishnava Voice, September 4th, 2008).
This, of course, is Srila Prabhupada’s formula for ISKCON - thousands
of men and women who would act as local spiritual masters or siksa
-gurus, by staying at home and not “travelling the world”; and above
all not accepting any disciples! Srila Prabhupada indeed states that
this is the mission of ISKCON:
“This is the sublime mission of the International Society for Krishna
Consciousness. [...] That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare
Krsna mantra and preach the instructions of Krsna as they are given in
the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam [...] One has to learn humility
and meekness at home, following the instructions of Sri Caitanya
Mahaprabhu, and in that way one’s life will be spiritually successful.
One should not try to be an artificially advanced devotee, thinking, “1
am a first class devotee.” Such thinking should be
avoided. It is best not to accept any disciples. One has to become
purified at home by chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra and preaching
the principles enunciated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Thus one can
become a spiritual master and be freed from the contamination of
material life.”
(Sri Caitanya-caritamtra, Madhya-lila, 7.130, purport)
Standing against GBC philosophy
This is a stunning announcement by an ISKCON leader as it directly
contradicts ISKCON’s teaching on the matter, which is that Srila
Prabhupada allegedly wanted every one of his disciples to become
diksa-guru, meaning thousands of such diksa, or initiating gurus, who
would take thousand of disciples, as we see below:
“In your transcendental literatures you repeatedly mention how
you hope for the day when all your followers will be initiating
spiritual masters, initiating even 10,000 or more disciples into the
guru-parampara.”
(Jayapataka Swami, Vyasa Puja offering to Srila Prabhupada,1998)
Conclusion
We are therefore left with only one diksa, or initiating guru in
ISKCON - Srila Prabhupada - who alone can accept disciples; where as
each member of ISKCON, right up to the GBC, is authorised by Srila
Prabhupada to only act as a instructing guru or preacher:
“The GBCshould all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru,
and you should be the instructor guru by teaching wha I am teaching and
doing what I am doing.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to GBC member August 4th,1975)
Which means that we must follow the actual meaning of Lord Caitanya’s
order, as clearly explained by Srila Prabhupad in the purports cited
previously to only become siksa gurus (instructing gurus or preachers,
no initiating gurus), and which on of ISKCON’s leaders is also now
accepting is the way forward.
Srila Prabhupada: the only diksa Guru for ISKCON.
Ameyatma das (ACBSP)
Hare Krsna
Wonderful letter, but, we all know Praghosh - the other praghosh at Dandabats - won't publish it. So, I hope you wrote Vaisyaseka directly. Too bad Navayogendra didn't have the .... well, i was going to say courage to stand up on principle, but, most likely he didn't have solid enough realization on the matter and besides the threats, they probably convinced him enough to doubt .. . still, when will they get it? Bhakta Caru has many times claimed to be a virtual rtvik, but, won't cross fully. Again, they will run him out...
Years ago (~ 1999 or so) Trvikram told me that He, Bhakta Caru and our now deceased god brother Sridhar met and were discussing an email to the GBC and Sannyasis that i had written at that time. He said the 3 of them agreed with my points and made an effort to get the GBC to back it, but, they hit strong resistance from JPS and dropped it. At that time I presented the logic that the GBC were the real authorities for the members of ISKCON, making them the actual masters, in that they have full authority over the so-called diskha gurus. Via logic argument i pointed out the current iskcon gurus could not be seen as traditional or actual Gurus (diksha gurus) over the new initiates since the guru's were not the actual masters of the new initiates because these 'gurus' acted under the authority of the GBC. The GBC, by vote, authorized such and such to perform Initiations. Thus, i wrote that these 'gurus' cannot be seen as the actual guru, but, they are Representative Gurus. They Represented the GBC, because the GBC awards them, via popular vote, to act as Guru, and the GBC can take away that function. And, while the Representative Gurus are functioning as 'initiators' they remain 100% fully under the direct and complete authority of the GBC. They are no less under the full authority of the GBC as the new initiates are. Thus, they are not acting at all as Masters of the new initiates. If and when one of the Representative gurus falls down, the GBC directly instruct the new initiates and guide them away from that fallen representative. Thus, it is always the GBC who at all times are the real authority - or Masters - of the new initiates.
I wrote that email purposefully leaving out the Rtvik word, and purposefully pinned their being Reps of the GBC rather then SP. I did this for several reasons. 1) because when i set out to write that article i was not yet of full realization that the on-going rtvik system is what SP wanted. We all, they and us, knew that the current guru system was flawed, but, other then the rtvik idea, no one was able to put a solid finger on what the real flaws were. My intention when i started to write the article was to Avoid the "R" issue and try to resolve what the flaw was... To do so, I simply analyzed what the situation was, and came to the conclusion that the current gurus were not really gurus at all, but were Representatives of the GBC, and that the GBC were the real gurus... in the current system. And, factually that is what the current gurus are. They are Rtviks of the GBC. It was as i wrote that article (i only sent it to the GBC and sannyasis, may be a handful of other devotees) that I finally realized that I had come down on the side of accepting the on-going rtvik system. But, still, when i wrote that email i had not yet studied the whole rtvik side, so i had no knowledge of the May 28th letter. What realization i came to was that regardless of what SP may have wanted, what the current guru system in ISKCON is, is a Rtvik system. But, rather then it being these men are Rtviks of Srila Prabhupad, they are Rtvik Representatives of the GBC. Anyway, even though I realized this was Rtvik, I chose to leave out that word and used the word Representative to make it more palatable to the GBC, more easy for those to swallow who were too sold on the idea that Rtvik was a deviation. Anyway, Trivikram told me that Bhakta Caru and Sridhar and He totally accepted the logic and felt Representative Guru was a fitting title for the function they were performing, But, JPS angrily shot it down as being Rtvik by another name... thus Bogus. Never mind the logic - the logic dictates that the new gurus are not the real masters, they are empowred by the GBC via the voting process, thus they are Representatives of the GBC. No matter that the logic fits, it was just the idea that Representative Guru was in essence the same as Rtvik, that he rejected the idea not on the basis the logic was bad, but Rtvik is bad.
Srila Prabhupad called it Rtvik, but, they reject it. Still, the logic analysis of the situation remains unchallenged. The current Gurus are no more or less then Representatives of the GBC, or rtviks of the gbc.
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Great letter! I forwarded it to all of the ISKCONites who know me personally, and for whom I could find their email address.
This is the way that we can make progress. By gradually changing the hearts and minds of those in power within ISKCON. I’m sure that many of them can see, just from a practical point of view, that switching back to Śrīla Prabhupāda’s ingenious ṛtvik system of initiations would solve many of their problems. For one thing, they would no longer have to “live a lie.”
Pushing full implementation of the DOM, on the other hand, is, IMHO, a big mistake. It’s a pill that is too hard to swallow for the current ISKCON leaders. There is no way that they are going to put their positions in jeopardy like that. (Being subject to being voted off the GBC by the temple presidents.) This is one big mistake that ISKCON Bangalore is making. Full implementation of the DOM is something for the distant future when ISKCON is much larger, and when a safe, secure retirement plan is firmly in place for all ex-GBC men. A retirement plan which has nothing to do with whether or not they have “fallen down” or whether or not they are on good terms with the then current ISKCON powers-that-be.
Your servant, Pratyatoṣa Dāsa
Nathan Zakheim
nnv das
Roupa Manjari devi dasi Zakheim
Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu and Disciples of Srila Prabhupada,
Please accept my most humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
What people don't realize is the implication of what life would be like if and when the Direction of Management is established. It is the Direction of Management alone that will put power into the hands of the people. Instead of being at the mercy of a pack of jackals at the feast, each and every one of us would create our temple presidents, and each and every temple president would create the GBC. In this way no one is taken advantage of, and everyone gets to create the vision of Srila Prabhupada cent percent! In this way the desires of Srila Prabhupada are inherantly protected in a chrysalis of self-regulation.
Until we act together to have this immediately instated into the charter of all ISKCON temples, we are in actuality the very same dogs barking futilely at the caravan of elephants that pass - namely, the so-called "GBC" elephants.
Our excuse for not immediately instating this crucial document ordered by Srila Prabhupada is that we are collectively addicted to the anti-culture that has risen up in place of the Real Culture, the Cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in this Krishna Consciousness Movement. This includes bogus kirtan, bogus books, bogus gurus, and the insidious ani abhilasa bhije form of socializing (e.g.: anti-semitism, swine flu, and wholesale character assassination) that has permeated the very fabric of ISKCON, and now serves to sever the devotees from Srila Prabhupada, His Vani, and from the individual development of one's relationship to Krishna.
Instead we could be banding together with the INDOMITABLE SPIRIT OF BROTHERHOOD and turn it all around for Srila Prabhupada.
And it all begins with the Direction of Management.
To even consider eliminating this Direct Order from Srila Prabhupada from the very top of the list of absolute priority is about as intelligent as suggesting to remove the heart from an open-heart surgery patient, perform surgery on the heart elsewhere, and eventually re-attach the heart when the surgery is completed to the satisfaction of the doctors and the flow of blood appears to be stanched.
The problem with the heart might be resolved, but the person, and in this case Srila Prabhupada's organization of ISKCON, will be long dead by the time the two are re-united.
To be effective as disciples of our Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada, we must address the cause of each issue and refuse to be distracted by the issues themselves, for they are only symptoms of the underlying and pervasive disease. This disease is the notable absence or application of a Founding Document which scrupulously holds to task each and every participant, member and power-holder in this ISKCON Movement.
Until Srila Prabhupada's Direction of Management is firmly established and glorified as the founding document in the charter of each and every ISKCON temple around the world, present and future, there is no GBC. The group of individuals calling themselves "GBC", drafting and passing self-serving "GBC Resolutions" throughout Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON Movement, voting themselves and each other in like fraternity and gangster initiates, making decisions to suit their own interests and parasitizing millions of people around the globe struggling in vain for some semblance of spiritual goodness in their lives, ARE NOT GBC. Actually,
They are corporate criminals, murderers, child molesters, homosexuals, drug addicts, fools, rascals and demons.
They nervously await incarceration if not capital punishment, should we ever choose to strike with the Sword of Knowledge given to us by our compassionate Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada:
Without the Direction of Management, there is no hope to undo the hideous tumor that has metastasized within the brain, heart and lungs of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON.
Your eternal servant,
Roupa Manjari devi dasi
oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
jñānāñjana-śalākayā
cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.
Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita: As It Is
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu and Disciples of Srila Prabhupada,
Please accept my most humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
What people don't realize is the implication of what life would be like if and when the Direction of Management is established. It is the Direction of Management alone that will put power into the hands of the people. Instead of being at the mercy of a pack of jackals at the feast, each and every one of us would create our temple presidents, and each and every temple president would create the GBC.
Dear Mother Roupa Mañjarī Prabhu, Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
“Power into the hands of the people?” So you think that the mostly Hindu congregations should elect Hindu temple presidents who in turn should elect a Hindu GBC! This does not sound like a very good idea to me!
First we get ISKCON to restore Śrīla Prabhupāda’s ṛtvik system of initiations. Then, several years down the road, full implementation of the DOM may be possible. For now, we are simply wasting our time discussing it.
Your servant, Pratyatoṣa Dāsa
mark mclaughlin
Dear Gauridasa Pandita Dasa,
PAMHO AGTSrila Prabhupada
Sorry that I wrote your name incorrectly in my first letter. I was reading it from your email address and Gauri das seemed like a complete name.
After reading your cordial reply I feel like I might be missing something. Is there someplace on this earth where you personally have the authority and capablility to engage Srila Prabhupada's disciples in a daily Sankirtana program where anyone from the public who so chooses can surrender body and soul and be engaged according to their Varna and Asrama?
As far as the reality as I understand it, the last I heard from your own contributions to this Isthagosthi, your current situation has you sitting quite helplessly toeing the line drawn by Hari Vilasa at the Berzerkely temple where the fiendish and blasphemous Jayadwaita Swami feels free to come and go and spout poison from the Vyasasana. I caught a glimpse of him during a fringe visit to the Alachua temple, and literally had to go home and take a shower.
I would hope if you had some solid alternative that you would have immediately invited me after I just poured my heart out. I hope that is safe to assume. You seem too sincere and genuine to be hiding a regular victorious Sankirtana Party from me.
So I am left to conclude that despite your praising of my sagacity and encouragement to continue sharing my realizations via cyberspace, what you are really saying is you are not willing or able to discuss the practicalities I alluded to at this time.
Does that mean you are fine with the status quo? Comfy for now?
Or perhaps you, like me, feel very little support from the Prabhupadanuga sanga to earnestly consider anything more substantial because it might set you up for dashed hopes and failed expectations?
Please, there is no time to waste on simple niceties. Unless you can show me what I am missing, we are in the same boat despite the fact that you hopped on board and were formally initiated around 1970, and I was only initiated by HDG's Vani in 97. Speak frankly, and if you actually don't want to discuss in such a weighty practical fashion with me please let me know. I already sense this is the case but am allowing for the chance I am wrong.
Thank you and please forgive me if my directness is offensive to you.
your servant,
B.Mark
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Gauridasa Pandita Dasa
On Jun 11, 1:06 pm, mark mclaughlin <markmac...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Gauridasa Pandita Dasa,
>
> PAMHO AGTSrila Prabhupada
>
> Sorry that I wrote your name incorrectly in my first letter. I was reading it from your email address and Gauri das seemed like a complete name.
>
> After reading your cordial reply I feel like I might be missing something. Is there someplace on this earth where you personally have the authority and capablility to engage Srila Prabhupada's disciples in a daily Sankirtana program where anyone from the public who so chooses can surrender body and soul and be engaged according to their Varna and Asrama?
>
Pamro agt HDG Srila Prabhupada !
I also was left wondering after reading your last message. To clear a
few things up I do not live at the Berkeley temple. My son does. I
travel most of the time in an RV. So I go to all the big festivals and
I hope to see caravans of devotees in the future putting on big
Sankirtan festivals all over the fruited plane. I do visit Berkeley a
lot because it is an open temple and are not anti-ritvik unlike most
of the other temples by GBC order. Hari Vilasa never comes to Berkeley
temple anymore in over a year. He is only a figure head GBC there. But
if you want to do regular Harinam Sankirtan I would recommend you move
to Berkeley and join the party.
Also I have other Vaisnava children who are traveling with me now and
they keep me busy so I don't have any extra time. So I can't write too
much. But will whenever posible
Best wishes,
Gauridasa Pandita Dasa
>
> I would hope if you had some solid alternative that you would have immediately invited me after I just poured my heart out. I hope that is safe to assume. You seem too sincere and genuine to be hiding a regular victorious Sankirtana Party from me.
>
> So I am left to conclude that despite your praising of my sagacity and encouragement to continue sharing my realizations via cyberspace, what you are really saying is you are not willing or able to discuss the practicalities I alluded to at this time.
>
> Does that mean you are fine with the status quo? Comfy for now?
>
> Or perhaps you, like me, feel very little support from the Prabhupadanuga sanga to earnestly consider anything more substantial because it might set you up for dashed hopes and failed expectations?
>
> Please, there is no time to waste on simple niceties. Unless you can show me what I am missing, we are in the same boat despite the fact that you hopped on board and were formally initiated around 1970, and I was only initiated by HDG's Vani in 97. Speak frankly, and if you actually don't want to discuss in such a weighty practical fashion with me please let me know. I already sense this is the case but am allowing for the chance I am wrong.
>
> Thank you and please forgive me if my directness is offensive to you.
>
> your servant,
>
> B.Mark
>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Gauridasa Pandita Dasa <gauri...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Bhakta Mark,
> Pamro agt HDG Srila Prabhupada!
>
> Thank you for your nicely written sagious letter. It is good and practical advice. I think we should do as you advised; associate with like minded devotees etc. And I do that. But once in a blue moon when the opportunity arrises I try to convince the devotees of Srila Prabhupada's last instructions for the future and benefit of his mission. I feel if I did not speak up now and then I would not me doing my duty; having heard it personally from His Divine Grace. I feel in time the Truth will set is free and the Lord helps those who help themselves and others.
>
> At the same time I appreciate your cyber association. Please keep writing with your intelligent observations and realizations.
>
> Hoping this meets you well,
> Your servant,
> Gauridasa Pandita Dasa
>
> Chant HARE KRSNA
> And your life will be sublime!
>
> From: Gary Lund <gauri...@aol.com>
> Subject: Fwd: What kind of guru are you?
> To: "istag...@googlegroups.com" <istag...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 11:20 PM
>
> GPD reponse to Vaisesika's 1st response:
>
> Subject: Re: What kind of guru are you?
>
> Dear Vaisesika Prabhu,
> Please accept my respectful obeisance's. All glories to our jagat guru Srila Prabhupada!
>
> Thank you for your reply. We are all individuals and will have our different opinions, all of us thinking that we are right. The main thing is to agree to disagree respectfully if we do. Then we can make progress.
>
>
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