Fwd: You are a fool Rochan, Srila Prabhupad will live on forever in his books!
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Padmagarbha Das
Apr 23, 2014, 7:05:53 PM4/23/14
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From: Earthgalleries <earthga...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: You are a fool Rochan, Srila Prabhupad will live on forever in his books!
To: "s...@harekrsna.com" <s...@harekrsna.com>
Cc: Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>, Matt Grom <mhd...@gmail.com>, Sudarshan Das <das...@yahoo.com.sg>, mahatma <dare...@yahoo.com>, Padmagarbha Das <padmaga...@gmail.com>, subhodip mitra <subho...@gmail.com>, Alex Aravinda Prabhu Georgiadis <georgi...@gmail.com>
Rocan responded: "Then you must also believe that when Srila Prabhupada referred to the fact
that his Spiritual Master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had departed/left his
body/accepted samadhi/was no longer physically present... that meant he
also had no faith in the words of his own Srila Prabhupada."
You are one crafty fellow Rocan. Don't put the words in my mouth. What you meant by your statement ( quoted below) is very unambiguous and very much different from what Srila Prabhupad teaches.
"Those devotees who like to adamantly state that Srila Prabhupada is
'still alive', and ISKCON should just go along as if that were the
assumption, are fools. This is just one of innumerable circumstances
where Srila Prabhupada stepped in and saved not only the money, but the
movement. It was his ability to function in the real world and his
perception about who was a devotee and who was basically a demon that
saved the day, and was a great contributing factor in the amazing
expansion of Krsna consciousness during that period, when Srila
Prabhupada was directly overseeing of the movement. Of course, he is
still with us in his vani legacy, but there is no replacing his actual
physical presence with us to guide and solve problems, hands-on."
You claim that Srila Prabhupad is unable to guide us and solve the problems 'hands on' because he is not alive any more( 'still alive' ) .
In numerous statements referring to his gurumaharaj , Srila Prabhupad was asserting that his gurumaharaj was the driving force behind his success and that he always felt his presence.
He taught us , yes US, myself included ( I know you will find this one hard to swallow :) ) , that physical presence is immaterial. Your misleading , offensive and arrogant words prove that you think otherwise. In your ignorance and arrogance , you think that you know better than Srila Prabhupad.
We are all aware that Srila Prabhupad is not physically manifest but none but you are making Srila Prabhupada out to be less potent( or impotent) to act hands on and to solve problems that we are faced with.
How is it Srila Prabhupada's problem that his I perceptive so-called disciples like you are considering him impotent to act because he appears to be not present? How is it his problem that they are not following his instructions to the letter?
If he was physically present , what difference would it make if almost none want to follow him faithfully anymore ? There were huge problems then and there are huge problems now. You find great relish in recounting those tragic tales of early mistakes and problems daily on your glorified blog and yet somehow you fail to acknowledge the simple fact that many of his disloyal disciples were just as disloyal then as they are now, despite his manifest presence.
Problem is not lack of presence of Srila Prabhupada. Problem is in lack of faith, obedience and perceptiveness on part of his so-called followers. All of the guidance is available in all of the areas yet who is taking that guidance and following it faithfully?
For instance , Srila Prabhupad confirmed that rubber-stamping gurus is cheating and yet somehow you decided to participate in that great cheating yourself years ago ( and to this day by upholding and glorifying some of those fakers) and many have paid dearly for your and your cronies' stupidity, myself being just one of them.
By telling others that Srila Prabhupad can't solve the problems anymore because he is not physically manifest as he was before you are only showing your atheism Rocan.
So my Guru Maharaja will be very, very much pleased with you ... it is not that he is dead and gone. THAT IS NOT SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING ... he is seeing. I never feel that I am alone.
(SP Lecture, 2/3/75)
When I see you so grossly misleading and then offending others , I feel like punching you in the face. If DVD was instituted by now , that's exactly what I'd do to atheistic cheaters and misleaders like you.
In conclusion , there is no need of replacing Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Clear perception is what's needed and you choose present to be blind for some insidious reasons.
Devotees here are familiar with plethora of quotes supporting this . Why are you pretending to be unaware of those quotes Rocan?
Your poor attempt to forcibly and unauthorisedly try to bridge the gap in parampara and in your own head has caused enough destruction already. Stop your nonsense before you destroy yourself... you fool!!!!
Hear Srila Prabhupada speak conclusively and repeatedly on the relevance of the physical presence of the Guru:
Real association is not physical
"Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 19/1/67)
"So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 18/8/68 )
"It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life."
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.31.48, purport)
"There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krsna or the Spiritual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krsna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association."
(Elevation to Krsna Consciousness, BBT 1973 edition, p. 57 )
Physical absence no bar to association
"But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 13/11/69)
"There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the vani, not the physical presence."
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 5, Conclusion)
Paramananda: "We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Srila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions."
Srila Prabhupada: "Thank you. That is the real presence. PHYSICAL PRESENCE IS NOT IMPORTANT. "
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, 6/10/77)
Devotee: "...so sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks 'How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?'"
Srila Prabhupada: "Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 18/8/71)
Srila Prabhupada's guidance not checked by physical absence
"Reception of spiritual knowledge is never checked by any material condition."
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.7.1, purport)
"The potency of transcendental sound is never minimised because the vibrator is apparently absent."
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.8, purport)
"I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja."
(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, 14/7/77)
"I am always with you. NEVER MIND IF I AM PHYSICALY ABSENT."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter 16/9/67)
Srila Prabhupada is STILL ALIVE
"So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 13/1/69)
"Krsna and his representative are the same. Similarly, the SPIRITUAL MASTER CSN BE PRESENT WHEREVER THE DISCIPLE WANTS. A spiritual master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of place by the principle of relay monitoring.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 28/5/68)
Srila Prabhupada gives personal instruction through his books
“The instruction given in my books is supposed to be personal instruction. When we read the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, it is understood that we are receiving personal instructions of Krsna. No physical barrier is there in the case of spiritual affairs.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 14/10/73)
Paramahamsa: “My question is, a pure devotee, when he comments on Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with the commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?”
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty?"
(Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk, 11/6/74)
More quotes from different source . Some are repeated :
Shrila Prabhupada's Quotes on Vani and Vapu
Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you.
(SP Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)
But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should
be concerned only with this spiritual connection.
(SP Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)
So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association.
(SP Lectures SB, 68/08/18)
There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krishna or the Spirirual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krishna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association.
(SP in Elevation to Krishna Consciousness,(BBT 1973), Page 57)
Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December 1936, I still consider his Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.
(SP in CC, Antya 5 Conclusion)
Therefore we should take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.
(SP Letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)
I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja.
(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)
It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life.
(SP in SB 3:31:48)
I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent.
(SP Letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)
Paramananda: We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Shrila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.
Shrila Prabhupada: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important.
(SP Room Conversation, Vrndavana, 6/10/77)
You write that you have desire to avail of my association again, but why do you forget that you are always in association with me? When you are helping my missionary activities I am always thinking of you, and you are always thinking of me . That is real association. Just like I am always thinking of my Guru Maharaja at every moment, although he is not physically present, and because I am trying to serve him to my best capacity, I am sure he is helping me by his spiritual blessings. So there are two kinds of association: physical
and preceptorial. Physical association is not so important as preceptorial association.
(SP Letter to Govinda Dasi, 18/8/69)
As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical presence. If you are chanting Hare Krishna there, and following my instructions, reading the books, taking only Krishna prasadam etc.,
then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord Chaitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on.
(SP Letter to Bala Krishna, 30/6/74)
'Anyone who has developed unflinching faith in the Lord and the Spiritual Master can understand the revealed scripture unfolding before him'. So continue your present aptitude and you will be successful in your spiritual progress. I am sure that even if I am not physically present before you, still you will be able to execute
all spiritual duties in the matter of Krishna Consciousness, if you follow the above principles.
(SP Letter to Subala, 29/9/67)
So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living.
(SP General lectures, 69/01/13)
Devotee: ...so sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks 'How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?'
Shrila Prabhupada: Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words.
(SP SB Lectures, 71/08/18)
Just like I am working, so my Guru Maharaja is there, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there. To serve master's word is more important than to serve physically.
(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 2/5/77)
So that is called prakata, physically present. And there is another phrase, which is called aprakata, not physically present. But that does not mean, Krishna is dead or God is dead. That does not mean,
prakata or aprakata, physically present or not present, it does not matter.
(SP Lectures SB 73/12/11)
So, spiritually, there is no question of separation, even physically we may be in far distant place.
(SP Letter to Syama Dasi, 30/08/68)
I went to your country for spreading this information of Krishna Consciousness and you are helping me in my mission, although I am not physically present there but spiritually I am always with you.
(Letter to Nandarani, Krishna Devi and Subala, 3/10/67)
We are not separated actually. There are two - Vani or Vapuh - so Vapu is physical presence and Vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same.
(SP Letter to Hamsadutta, 22/6/70)
So in the absence of physical presentation of the spiritual master, the Vaniseva is more important. My Spiritual Master Sarsavati Goswami, may appear to be physically not present, but still because I try to serve his instruction, I never feel separated from him.
(SP Letter to Karandhara, 22/8/70)
I also do not feel separation from my Guru Maharaja. When I am engaged in his service, his pictures give me sufficient strength. To serve master's word is more important than to serve him physically.
(SP Letter to Syamasundara, 19/7/70)
So far as personal association with Guru is concerned, I was only with Guru Maharaj 4 or 5 times, but I have never left his association, not even for a moment. Because I am following his instruction, I have never felt any separation. There are some of my Godbrothers here in India, who had constant personal association with Guru Maharaja, but who are neglecting his orders. This is just like the bug who is sitting on the lap of the king. He may be very puffed up by his position but all he can succeed in doing is biting the
king. Personal association is not so important as association through serving.
(SP Letter to Satyadhana, 20/2/72)
So spiritually appearance and disappearance, there is no difference ... spiritually there is no such difference, appearance or disappearance. Although this is the disappearance day of Om Vishnupada Shri Shrimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, there is nothing to be lamented, although we feel separation.
(SP Lecture, Los Angeles 13/12/73)
So my Guru Maharaja will be very, very much pleased with you ... it is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual understanding ... he is seeing. I never feel that I am alone.
(SP Lecture, 2/3/75)
Vani is more important than vapuh.
(SP Letter to Tusta Krishna Das, 14/12/72)
Yes I am glad that your centre is doing so well and all the devotees are now appreciating the presence of their spiritual master by following his instructions, although he is no longer present. This is
the right spirit.
(SP Letter to Karandhara, 13/9/70)
The spiritual master by his words, can penetrate into the heart of the suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence.
(SP in SB(1987 Ed) 1.7.22)
There are two words, vani and vapuh. Vani means words, and vapuh means the physical body. Vapuh will be finished. This material body it will be finished, that is the nature. But if we keep to the vani, to the words of the spiritual master, then we remain very fixed up...if you always keep intact, in link with the words and
instructions of the higher instructions, then you are always fresh. This is spiritual understanding.
(SP General lectures, 75/03/02)
So we should give more stress on the sound vibration, either of Krishna or Spiritual Master. Never think that I am absent from you, presence by message(or hearing) is the real touch.
(SP Letter to students, August 1967)
Reception of spiritual knowledge is never checked by any material condition.
(SP SB (1987)Ed) 7.7.1.)
The potency of transcendental sound is never minimised because the vibrator is apparently absent.
(SP in SB 2.9.8)
The disciple and Spiritual Master are never separated because the Spiritual Master always keeps company with the disciple as long as the disciple follows strictly the instructions of the Spiritual Master. This is called the association of Vani. Physical presence is called Vapuh. As long as the Spiritual Master is physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the Spiritual Master, and when the Spiritual Master is no longer physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the Spiritual Master.
(SP in SB 4:28:47)
If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself. In the absence therefore, his words of direction should be pride of the disciple.
(SP in CC(1975 Ed) Adi 1.35)
He lives forever by his divine instructions, and the follower lives with him.
(SP in SB(1962 Ed) Preface)
He reasons ill who tells that Vaishnavas die, when thou art still living in sound.
(Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)
Yes, the ecstacy of separation of Spiritual Master is even greater ecstasy than meeting with him.
(SP Letter to Jadurani, 13/1/68)
Krishna and his representative are the same. Similarly, the spiritual master can be present wherever the disciple wants. A spiritual master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in
thousands of place by the principle of relay monitoring.
(SP Letter to Malati, 28/5/68)
It is better service to Krishna and Spiritual Master in a feeling of separation; sometimes there is a risk in the matter of direct service.
(SP Letter to Madhusudana, 31/12/67)
Sent from my iPad
On 23 Apr 2014, at 21:13, s...@harekrsna.com wrote:
Then you must also believe that when Srila Prabhupada referred to the fact
that his Spiritual Master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had departed/left his
body/accepted samadhi/was no longer physically present... that meant he
also had no faith in the words of his own Srila Prabhupada.
He thinks that he is that alternative. Who in their right mind would ever
consider his guru a dead man or not present. Physical presence or
spiritual , there is no difference since all the answers we need are in
Srila Prabhupada's books. Rochan obviously doesn't have an ounce of faith
in those words of Srila Prabhupada.
Sent from my iPad
On 23 Apr 2014, at 10:04, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
just see how Rocana does not post alternative argument..LOL.
Cockroaches HATE any light on their darkness of dead guru, become guru.
On Monday, April 21, 2014 6:23 AM, Earthgalleries
<earthga...@gmail.com> wrote:
You wrote this :
"Those devotees who like to adamantly state that Srila Prabhupada is
'still alive', and ISKCON should just go along as if that were the
assumption, are fools. This is just one of innumerable circumstances
where Srila Prabhupada stepped in and saved not only the money, but the
movement. It was his ability to function in the real world and his
perception about who was a devotee and who was basically a demon that
saved the day, and was a great contributing factor in the amazing
expansion of Krsna consciousness during that period, when Srila
Prabhupada was directly overseeing of the movement. Of course, he is
still with us in his vani legacy, but there is no replacing his actual
physical presence with us to guide and solve problems, hands-on."
Srila Prabhupad said this :
Prabhupada: I WILL NEVER DIE. Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
Prabhupada: I SHALL LIVE FROM MY BOOKS, AND YOU WILL UTILIZE.
So , fuck you Cockrochan! The only dead person here is yourself , you
fucking deadbeat! For those of us whom Srila Prabhupad is sustaining
daily , for those who utilise his instructions to the best of our
ability , he will always be present , relevant and accessible.
For all of you guru wannabes , you need him to be dead , you need to
kill the guru in order to become ( worthless) gurus.
You will never be able to kill or replace him. Millions of your voted-in
clown gurus will never be able to replace him so stop trying you idiot.
I know that in your stupidity, obstinacy and arrogance you will die
trying to obliterate Srila Prabhupada and his importance , and just as
you have strong urge to piss and shit all over those of us who are
treasuring their faith in Srila Prabhupada and his very much concrete
presence in their lives, and on those who feel no need for any of your
cheap substitutes , I feel a strong urge to reciprocate in kind.
Srila Prabhupad sustains me , you and your GBC cronies only disgust and
disturb me. Can't wait to see you all dead.
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
> On 23 Apr 2014, at 21:13, s...@harekrsna.com wrote:
>
> Then you must also believe that when Srila Prabhupada referred to the fact
> that his Spiritual Master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had departed/left his
> body/accepted samadhi/was no longer physically present... that meant he
> also had no faith in the words of his own Srila Prabhupada.
>
>
>
>
>> He thinks that he is that alternative. Who in their right mind would ever
>> consider his guru a dead man or not present. Physical presence or
>> spiritual , there is no difference since all the answers we need are in
>> Srila Prabhupada's books. Rochan obviously doesn't have an ounce of faith
>> in those words of Srila Prabhupada.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 23 Apr 2014, at 10:04, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> just see how Rocana does not post alternative argument..LOL.
>>>
>>> Cockroaches HATE any light on their darkness of dead guru, become guru.
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 21, 2014 6:23 AM, Earthgalleries
>>> <earthga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You wrote this :
>>>
>>> "Those devotees who like to adamantly state that Srila Prabhupada is
>>> 'still alive', and ISKCON should just go along as if that were the
>>> assumption, are fools. This is just one of innumerable circumstances
>>> where Srila Prabhupada stepped in and saved not only the money, but the
>>> movement. It was his ability to function in the real world and his
>>> perception about who was a devotee and who was basically a demon that
>>> saved the day, and was a great contributing factor in the amazing
>>> expansion of Krsna consciousness during that period, when Srila
>>> Prabhupada was directly overseeing of the movement. Of course, he is
>>> still with us in his vani legacy, but there is no replacing his actual
>>> physical presence with us to guide and solve problems, hands-on."
>>>
>>> Srila Prabhupad said this :
>>>
>>> Prabhupada: I WILL NEVER DIE. Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
>>> Prabhupada: I SHALL LIVE FROM MY BOOKS, AND YOU WILL UTILIZE.
>>>
>>> So , fuck you Cockrochan! The only dead person here is yourself , you
>>> fucking deadbeat! For those of us whom Srila Prabhupad is sustaining
>>> daily , for those who utilise his instructions to the best of our
>>> ability , he will always be present , relevant and accessible.
>>>
>>> For all of you guru wannabes , you need him to be dead , you need to
>>> kill the guru in order to become ( worthless) gurus.
>>>
>>> You will never be able to kill or replace him. Millions of your voted-in
>>> clown gurus will never be able to replace him so stop trying you idiot.
>>>
>>> I know that in your stupidity, obstinacy and arrogance you will die
>>> trying to obliterate Srila Prabhupada and his importance , and just as
>>> you have strong urge to piss and shit all over those of us who are
>>> treasuring their faith in Srila Prabhupada and his very much concrete
>>> presence in their lives, and on those who feel no need for any of your
>>> cheap substitutes , I feel a strong urge to reciprocate in kind.
>>>
>>> Srila Prabhupad sustains me , you and your GBC cronies only disgust and
>>> disturb me. Can't wait to see you all dead.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
From: Earthgalleries <earthga...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: You are a fool Rochan, Srila Prabhupad will live on forever in his books!
To: "s...@harekrsna.com" <s...@harekrsna.com>
Cc: Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>, Matt Grom <mhd...@gmail.com>, Sudarshan Das <das...@yahoo.com.sg>, mahatma <dare...@yahoo.com>, Padmagarbha Das <padmaga...@gmail.com>, subhodip mitra <subho...@gmail.com>, Alex Aravinda Prabhu Georgiadis <georgi...@gmail.com>
Rocan responded: "Then you must also believe that when Srila Prabhupada referred to the fact
that his Spiritual Master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had departed/left his
body/accepted samadhi/was no longer physically present... that meant he
also had no faith in the words of his own Srila Prabhupada."
You are one crafty fellow Rocan. Don't put the words in my mouth. What you meant by your statement ( quoted below) is very unambiguous and very much different from what Srila Prabhupad teaches.
"Those devotees who like to adamantly state that Srila Prabhupada is
'still alive', and ISKCON should just go along as if that were the
assumption, are fools. This is just one of innumerable circumstances
where Srila Prabhupada stepped in and saved not only the money, but the
movement. It was his ability to function in the real world and his
perception about who was a devotee and who was basically a demon that
saved the day, and was a great contributing factor in the amazing
expansion of Krsna consciousness during that period, when Srila
Prabhupada was directly overseeing of the movement. Of course, he is
still with us in his vani legacy, but there is no replacing his actual
physical presence with us to guide and solve problems, hands-on."
You claim that Srila Prabhupad is unable to guide us and solve the problems 'hands on' because he is not alive any more( 'still alive' ) .
In numerous statements referring to his gurumaharaj , Srila Prabhupad was asserting that his gurumaharaj was the driving force behind his success and that he always felt his presence.
He taught us , yes US, myself included ( I know you will find this one hard to swallow :) ) , that physical presence is immaterial. Your misleading , offensive and arrogant words prove that you think otherwise. In your ignorance and arrogance , you think that you know better than Srila Prabhupad.
We are all aware that Srila Prabhupad is not physically manifest but none but you are making Srila Prabhupada out to be less potent( or impotent) to act hands on and to solve problems that we are faced with.
How is it Srila Prabhupada's problem that his I perceptive so-called disciples like you are considering him impotent to act because he appears to be not present? How is it his problem that they are not following his instructions to the letter?
If he was physically present , what difference would it make if almost none want to follow him faithfully anymore ? There were huge problems then and there are huge problems now. You find great relish in recounting those tragic tales of early mistakes and problems daily on your glorified blog and yet somehow you fail to acknowledge the simple fact that many of his disloyal disciples were just as disloyal then as they are now, despite his manifest presence.
Problem is not lack of presence of Srila Prabhupada. Problem is in lack of faith, obedience and perceptiveness on part of his so-called followers. All of the guidance is available in all of the areas yet who is taking that guidance and following it faithfully?
For instance , Srila Prabhupad confirmed that rubber-stamping gurus is cheating and yet somehow you decided to participate in that great cheating yourself years ago ( and to this day by upholding and glorifying some of those fakers) and many have paid dearly for your and your cronies' stupidity, myself being just one of them.
By telling others that Srila Prabhupad can't solve the problems anymore because he is not physically manifest as he was before you are only showing your atheism Rocan.
So my Guru Maharaja will be very, very much pleased with you ... it is not that he is dead and gone. THAT IS NOT SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING ... he is seeing. I never feel that I am alone.
(SP Lecture, 2/3/75)
When I see you so grossly misleading and then offending others , I feel like punching you in the face. If DVD was instituted by now , that's exactly what I'd do to atheistic cheaters and misleaders like you.
In conclusion , there is no need of replacing Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Clear perception is what's needed and you choose present to be blind for some insidious reasons.
Devotees here are familiar with plethora of quotes supporting this . Why are you pretending to be unaware of those quotes Rocan?
Your poor attempt to forcibly and unauthorisedly try to bridge the gap in parampara and in your own head has caused enough destruction already. Stop your nonsense before you destroy yourself... you fool!!!!
Hear Srila Prabhupada speak conclusively and repeatedly on the relevance of the physical presence of the Guru:
Real association is not physical
"Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 19/1/67)
"So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 18/8/68 )
"It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life."
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.31.48, purport)
"There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krsna or the Spiritual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krsna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association."
(Elevation to Krsna Consciousness, BBT 1973 edition, p. 57 )
Physical absence no bar to association
"But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 13/11/69)
"There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the vani, not the physical presence."
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 5, Conclusion)
Paramananda: "We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Srila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions."
Srila Prabhupada: "Thank you. That is the real presence. PHYSICAL PRESENCE IS NOT IMPORTANT. "
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, 6/10/77)
Devotee: "...so sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks 'How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?'"
Srila Prabhupada: "Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 18/8/71)
Srila Prabhupada's guidance not checked by physical absence
"Reception of spiritual knowledge is never checked by any material condition."
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.7.1, purport)
"The potency of transcendental sound is never minimised because the vibrator is apparently absent."
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.8, purport)
"I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja."
(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, 14/7/77)
"I am always with you. NEVER MIND IF I AM PHYSICALY ABSENT."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter 16/9/67)
Srila Prabhupada is STILL ALIVE
"So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 13/1/69)
"Krsna and his representative are the same. Similarly, the SPIRITUAL MASTER CSN BE PRESENT WHEREVER THE DISCIPLE WANTS. A spiritual master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of place by the principle of relay monitoring.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 28/5/68)
Srila Prabhupada gives personal instruction through his books
“The instruction given in my books is supposed to be personal instruction. When we read the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, it is understood that we are receiving personal instructions of Krsna. No physical barrier is there in the case of spiritual affairs.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 14/10/73)
Paramahamsa: “My question is, a pure devotee, when he comments on Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with the commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?”
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty?"
(Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk, 11/6/74)
More quotes from different source . Some are repeated :
Shrila Prabhupada's Quotes on Vani and Vapu
Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you.
(SP Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)
But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should
be concerned only with this spiritual connection.
(SP Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)
So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association.
(SP Lectures SB, 68/08/18)
There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krishna or the Spirirual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krishna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association.
(SP in Elevation to Krishna Consciousness,(BBT 1973), Page 57)
Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December 1936, I still consider his Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.
(SP in CC, Antya 5 Conclusion)
Therefore we should take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.
(SP Letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)
I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja.
(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)
It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life.
(SP in SB 3:31:48)
I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent.
(SP Letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)
Paramananda: We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Shrila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.
Shrila Prabhupada: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important.
(SP Room Conversation, Vrndavana, 6/10/77)
You write that you have desire to avail of my association again, but why do you forget that you are always in association with me? When you are helping my missionary activities I am always thinking of you, and you are always thinking of me . That is real association. Just like I am always thinking of my Guru Maharaja at every moment, although he is not physically present, and because I am trying to serve him to my best capacity, I am sure he is helping me by his spiritual blessings. So there are two kinds of association: physical
and preceptorial. Physical association is not so important as preceptorial association.
(SP Letter to Govinda Dasi, 18/8/69)
As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical presence. If you are chanting Hare Krishna there, and following my instructions, reading the books, taking only Krishna prasadam etc.,
then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord Chaitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on.
(SP Letter to Bala Krishna, 30/6/74)
'Anyone who has developed unflinching faith in the Lord and the Spiritual Master can understand the revealed scripture unfolding before him'. So continue your present aptitude and you will be successful in your spiritual progress. I am sure that even if I am not physically present before you, still you will be able to execute
all spiritual duties in the matter of Krishna Consciousness, if you follow the above principles.
(SP Letter to Subala, 29/9/67)
So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living.
(SP General lectures, 69/01/13)
Devotee: ...so sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks 'How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?'
Shrila Prabhupada: Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words.
(SP SB Lectures, 71/08/18)
Just like I am working, so my Guru Maharaja is there, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there. To serve master's word is more important than to serve physically.
(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 2/5/77)
So that is called prakata, physically present. And there is another phrase, which is called aprakata, not physically present. But that does not mean, Krishna is dead or God is dead. That does not mean,
prakata or aprakata, physically present or not present, it does not matter.
(SP Lectures SB 73/12/11)
So, spiritually, there is no question of separation, even physically we may be in far distant place.
(SP Letter to Syama Dasi, 30/08/68)
I went to your country for spreading this information of Krishna Consciousness and you are helping me in my mission, although I am not physically present there but spiritually I am always with you.
(Letter to Nandarani, Krishna Devi and Subala, 3/10/67)
We are not separated actually. There are two - Vani or Vapuh - so Vapu is physical presence and Vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same.
(SP Letter to Hamsadutta, 22/6/70)
So in the absence of physical presentation of the spiritual master, the Vaniseva is more important. My Spiritual Master Sarsavati Goswami, may appear to be physically not present, but still because I try to serve his instruction, I never feel separated from him.
(SP Letter to Karandhara, 22/8/70)
I also do not feel separation from my Guru Maharaja. When I am engaged in his service, his pictures give me sufficient strength. To serve master's word is more important than to serve him physically.
(SP Letter to Syamasundara, 19/7/70)
So far as personal association with Guru is concerned, I was only with Guru Maharaj 4 or 5 times, but I have never left his association, not even for a moment. Because I am following his instruction, I have never felt any separation. There are some of my Godbrothers here in India, who had constant personal association with Guru Maharaja, but who are neglecting his orders. This is just like the bug who is sitting on the lap of the king. He may be very puffed up by his position but all he can succeed in doing is biting the
king. Personal association is not so important as association through serving.
(SP Letter to Satyadhana, 20/2/72)
So spiritually appearance and disappearance, there is no difference ... spiritually there is no such difference, appearance or disappearance. Although this is the disappearance day of Om Vishnupada Shri Shrimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, there is nothing to be lamented, although we feel separation.
(SP Lecture, Los Angeles 13/12/73)
So my Guru Maharaja will be very, very much pleased with you ... it is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual understanding ... he is seeing. I never feel that I am alone.
(SP Lecture, 2/3/75)
Vani is more important than vapuh.
(SP Letter to Tusta Krishna Das, 14/12/72)
Yes I am glad that your centre is doing so well and all the devotees are now appreciating the presence of their spiritual master by following his instructions, although he is no longer present. This is
the right spirit.
(SP Letter to Karandhara, 13/9/70)
The spiritual master by his words, can penetrate into the heart of the suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence.
(SP in SB(1987 Ed) 1.7.22)
There are two words, vani and vapuh. Vani means words, and vapuh means the physical body. Vapuh will be finished. This material body it will be finished, that is the nature. But if we keep to the vani, to the words of the spiritual master, then we remain very fixed up...if you always keep intact, in link with the words and
instructions of the higher instructions, then you are always fresh. This is spiritual understanding.
(SP General lectures, 75/03/02)
So we should give more stress on the sound vibration, either of Krishna or Spiritual Master. Never think that I am absent from you, presence by message(or hearing) is the real touch.
(SP Letter to students, August 1967)
Reception of spiritual knowledge is never checked by any material condition.
(SP SB (1987)Ed) 7.7.1.)
The potency of transcendental sound is never minimised because the vibrator is apparently absent.
(SP in SB 2.9.8)
The disciple and Spiritual Master are never separated because the Spiritual Master always keeps company with the disciple as long as the disciple follows strictly the instructions of the Spiritual Master. This is called the association of Vani. Physical presence is called Vapuh. As long as the Spiritual Master is physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the Spiritual Master, and when the Spiritual Master is no longer physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the Spiritual Master.
(SP in SB 4:28:47)
If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself. In the absence therefore, his words of direction should be pride of the disciple.
(SP in CC(1975 Ed) Adi 1.35)
He lives forever by his divine instructions, and the follower lives with him.
(SP in SB(1962 Ed) Preface)
He reasons ill who tells that Vaishnavas die, when thou art still living in sound.
(Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)
Yes, the ecstacy of separation of Spiritual Master is even greater ecstasy than meeting with him.
(SP Letter to Jadurani, 13/1/68)
Krishna and his representative are the same. Similarly, the spiritual master can be present wherever the disciple wants. A spiritual master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in
thousands of place by the principle of relay monitoring.
(SP Letter to Malati, 28/5/68)
It is better service to Krishna and Spiritual Master in a feeling of separation; sometimes there is a risk in the matter of direct service.
(SP Letter to Madhusudana, 31/12/67)
Sent from my iPad
On 23 Apr 2014, at 21:13, s...@harekrsna.com wrote:
Then you must also believe that when Srila Prabhupada referred to the fact
that his Spiritual Master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had departed/left his
body/accepted samadhi/was no longer physically present... that meant he
also had no faith in the words of his own Srila Prabhupada.
He thinks that he is that alternative. Who in their right mind would ever
consider his guru a dead man or not present. Physical presence or
spiritual , there is no difference since all the answers we need are in
Srila Prabhupada's books. Rochan obviously doesn't have an ounce of faith
in those words of Srila Prabhupada.
Sent from my iPad
On 23 Apr 2014, at 10:04, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
just see how Rocana does not post alternative argument..LOL.
Cockroaches HATE any light on their darkness of dead guru, become guru.
On Monday, April 21, 2014 6:23 AM, Earthgalleries
<earthga...@gmail.com> wrote:
You wrote this :
"Those devotees who like to adamantly state that Srila Prabhupada is
'still alive', and ISKCON should just go along as if that were the
assumption, are fools. This is just one of innumerable circumstances
where Srila Prabhupada stepped in and saved not only the money, but the
movement. It was his ability to function in the real world and his
perception about who was a devotee and who was basically a demon that
saved the day, and was a great contributing factor in the amazing
expansion of Krsna consciousness during that period, when Srila
Prabhupada was directly overseeing of the movement. Of course, he is
still with us in his vani legacy, but there is no replacing his actual
physical presence with us to guide and solve problems, hands-on."
Srila Prabhupad said this :
Prabhupada: I WILL NEVER DIE. Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
Prabhupada: I SHALL LIVE FROM MY BOOKS, AND YOU WILL UTILIZE.
So , fuck you Cockrochan! The only dead person here is yourself , you
fucking deadbeat! For those of us whom Srila Prabhupad is sustaining
daily , for those who utilise his instructions to the best of our
ability , he will always be present , relevant and accessible.
For all of you guru wannabes , you need him to be dead , you need to
kill the guru in order to become ( worthless) gurus.
You will never be able to kill or replace him. Millions of your voted-in
clown gurus will never be able to replace him so stop trying you idiot.
I know that in your stupidity, obstinacy and arrogance you will die
trying to obliterate Srila Prabhupada and his importance , and just as
you have strong urge to piss and shit all over those of us who are
treasuring their faith in Srila Prabhupada and his very much concrete
presence in their lives, and on those who feel no need for any of your
cheap substitutes , I feel a strong urge to reciprocate in kind.
Srila Prabhupad sustains me , you and your GBC cronies only disgust and
disturb me. Can't wait to see you all dead.
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
> On 23 Apr 2014, at 21:13, s...@harekrsna.com wrote:
>
> Then you must also believe that when Srila Prabhupada referred to the fact
> that his Spiritual Master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had departed/left his
> body/accepted samadhi/was no longer physically present... that meant he
> also had no faith in the words of his own Srila Prabhupada.
>
>
>
>
>> He thinks that he is that alternative. Who in their right mind would ever
>> consider his guru a dead man or not present. Physical presence or
>> spiritual , there is no difference since all the answers we need are in
>> Srila Prabhupada's books. Rochan obviously doesn't have an ounce of faith
>> in those words of Srila Prabhupada.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 23 Apr 2014, at 10:04, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> just see how Rocana does not post alternative argument..LOL.
>>>
>>> Cockroaches HATE any light on their darkness of dead guru, become guru.
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 21, 2014 6:23 AM, Earthgalleries
>>> <earthga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You wrote this :
>>>
>>> "Those devotees who like to adamantly state that Srila Prabhupada is
>>> 'still alive', and ISKCON should just go along as if that were the
>>> assumption, are fools. This is just one of innumerable circumstances
>>> where Srila Prabhupada stepped in and saved not only the money, but the
>>> movement. It was his ability to function in the real world and his
>>> perception about who was a devotee and who was basically a demon that
>>> saved the day, and was a great contributing factor in the amazing
>>> expansion of Krsna consciousness during that period, when Srila
>>> Prabhupada was directly overseeing of the movement. Of course, he is
>>> still with us in his vani legacy, but there is no replacing his actual
>>> physical presence with us to guide and solve problems, hands-on."
>>>
>>> Srila Prabhupad said this :
>>>
>>> Prabhupada: I WILL NEVER DIE. Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
>>> Prabhupada: I SHALL LIVE FROM MY BOOKS, AND YOU WILL UTILIZE.
>>>
>>> So , fuck you Cockrochan! The only dead person here is yourself , you
>>> fucking deadbeat! For those of us whom Srila Prabhupad is sustaining
>>> daily , for those who utilise his instructions to the best of our
>>> ability , he will always be present , relevant and accessible.
>>>
>>> For all of you guru wannabes , you need him to be dead , you need to
>>> kill the guru in order to become ( worthless) gurus.
>>>
>>> You will never be able to kill or replace him. Millions of your voted-in
>>> clown gurus will never be able to replace him so stop trying you idiot.
>>>
>>> I know that in your stupidity, obstinacy and arrogance you will die
>>> trying to obliterate Srila Prabhupada and his importance , and just as
>>> you have strong urge to piss and shit all over those of us who are
>>> treasuring their faith in Srila Prabhupada and his very much concrete
>>> presence in their lives, and on those who feel no need for any of your
>>> cheap substitutes , I feel a strong urge to reciprocate in kind.
>>>
>>> Srila Prabhupad sustains me , you and your GBC cronies only disgust and
>>> disturb me. Can't wait to see you all dead.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Jack Eskildsen
Apr 23, 2014, 7:24:09 PM4/23/14
to istag...@googlegroups.com
Well said, the evidence is conclusive but those fellows just ignore it and ignore it. Ten years or so ago on Audarya forums I would show them those same quotes over and over again and they would be condescending and ignore what it clearly says. I knew not to bother wasting my time learning Krsna Consciousness from them when they ignore what Prabhupada said and now I am reading Mahabharata and Ramayana and understanding it all because I have read Prabhupada's books so many times and I am enjoying the greatness of the pastimes of Krsna.
--
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markm...@gmail.com
Apr 23, 2014, 8:55:08 PM4/23/14
to istag...@googlegroups.com
"So Sanātana
Gosvāmī, he's ācārya in this disciplic succession from
Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Caitanya. He is the first disciple of Lord Caitanya,
and from him, Sanātana Gosvāmī, six Gosvāmīs. There were six
among the first followers of Lord Caitanya. And then, from next step comes Raghunātha Gosvāmī and then this author
of this book, Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, and from him,Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura,
and then from him, Viśvanātha Cakravartī, Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa.
In this way this disciplic succession is coming from Lord Caitanya. So as ācārya...
Ācārya means one who knows the principles of scripture, properly being
initiated by authority who knows things as they are, and they apply those
things in their own life. They are called ācārya." (CC
Adi 1 The spiritual masters.)
- The direct disciple of Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī was Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, who accepted Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī as his servitor. (Lecture, CC Madhya 20.100-108 - NY, 11/22/66)
Shrila Chakravarti Thakura went on to live in the Murshidabad district of West Bengal, in Saiyadabad, where he received mantra initiation from Shri Krishna Charana Chakravarti. He lived for a long time in the house of his gurudeva, where he wrote many books. Because Chakravarti Thakura lived for so long in Saiyadabad, he became known as a resident of Saiyadabad. After having come to Vrindavan Dhama, Shri Vishvanatha took up his residence in the bhajan kutir of Shri Krishna Das Kaviraja Goswami on the banks of the Radha-kunda, where there lived a disciple of Krishna das Kaviraja whose name was Mukunda das. There, Shri Vishvanatha Cakravarti made a careful study of the Goswami's literatures. (api.ning.com/files/.../VishvanathaChakravartiThakura.docx)
Narottama das Thakur - Appeared: 1466 Disappeared: 1572
Visvanatha Cakravarti - Appeared: 1626-1636- The direct disciple of Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī was Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, who accepted Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī as his servitor. (Lecture, CC Madhya 20.100-108 - NY, 11/22/66)
- "But you cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa without serving the representative of Kṛṣṇa. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, chādiyā vaiṣṇava-sevā nistara paveche kebā: "Without serving the representative of Kṛṣṇa, nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa... Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that "By the mercy of the spiritual master, one can get the mercy of Kṛṣṇa." Yasya prasādāt, "by whose mercy, Kṛṣṇa is merciful." Niṣkiñcanānāṁ pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. So this is also stated here, that surrender to Kṛṣṇa means surrender to Kṛṣṇa's representative. (Lectures : SB 6.1.15 -- Auckland, 2/22/73)
- He is example, practical example of guru-bhakti, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. He accepted his guru, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura... But I am interested only with the words of my guru." Viśvanātha Cakravartī said. "That is my life. Whether I will be successful or not successful, it doesn't matter. I must take the words of my Guru Mahārāja as my life and soul." (Lectures : SB 7.12.6 -- Bombay, 4/17/76)
- Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. These are, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's versions are accepted as Vedic versions, śruti-pramāṇa. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that the statements of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura are as good as Vedic evidences. Therefore we quote from Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura often. (The Nectar of Devotion -- Vrndavana, November 13, 1972)
Shrila Chakravarti Thakura went on to live in the Murshidabad district of West Bengal, in Saiyadabad, where he received mantra initiation from Shri Krishna Charana Chakravarti. He lived for a long time in the house of his gurudeva, where he wrote many books. Because Chakravarti Thakura lived for so long in Saiyadabad, he became known as a resident of Saiyadabad. After having come to Vrindavan Dhama, Shri Vishvanatha took up his residence in the bhajan kutir of Shri Krishna Das Kaviraja Goswami on the banks of the Radha-kunda, where there lived a disciple of Krishna das Kaviraja whose name was Mukunda das. There, Shri Vishvanatha Cakravarti made a careful study of the Goswami's literatures. (api.ning.com/files/.../VishvanathaChakravartiThakura.docx)
Rajen Babu: Isn't the kanistha-adhikari qualified to give initiation into the mantra?
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada: Where is the kanishtha-adhikari coming from? Who gave him the adhikara? A kanishtha-adhikari can never become a guru.
Rajen Babu: Can a madhyama-adhikari give diksa?
Prabhupada: He can only perform the initial duties of diksa. It is the uttama-adhikari maha-bhagavata Vaisnava who is actually the diksa-guru. There are two types of Vaisnavas – the ragatmika and the raganuga. Those who are from the eternal realm offer service to Sri Krsna directly. These ragatmikas serve Sri Varshabhanavi and Her direct expansions. Those who perform direct service to the ragatmikas and take shelter in them through the performance of smarana are raganugas. These are spiritual gurus...
Prabhupada: He should be respected if he is actually a disciple of a real guru. One may listen to those who have heard from a genuine spiritual preceptor. But wherever it is found that there is a conflict in opinion between him and my guru, then to see him as a ‘Vaisnava’ is a sure path leading to hell. mannathah sri jagannathah mad-guruh sri jagad-guruh "My Lord is Sri Jagannatha and my guru is the universal teacher." It is not proper to associate with a person who has deviated even minutely from the suddha-bhakti-siddhanta preached by my Guru-Pada-Padma. The basis of hearing from him is that he himself has heard from Sri Nityananda Prabhu.
Prabhupada: Sravana is eternal. Sravana continues even after the attaining svarupa-siddhi. Once, Thakura Haridasa was performing solitary chanting of the holy name of Hari in a hut deep within the jungles of Benapol. At that time, in order to diminish the glories of Haridasa, an immoral woman was sent to that place by the conniving landowner Ramacandra Khan, and she entered the Thakura’s hut expressing her evil intentions. Then the Thakura told her, "I have taken hari-nama diksa. I will talk to you after that diksa is over."
In other words, the actual purpose of
Haridasa was that this diksa will
never end and I will not listen to what you have to say. On hearing hari-nama
chanted from the holy mouth of the Thakura, the consciousness of that immoral
woman changed.
http://gosai.com/writings/sri-guru-tattva-and-the-secret-of-diksa-part-3
Vichal Gajapersad
Jun 6, 2019, 7:33:32 AM6/6/19
to Prabhupadanuga
The Importance of Prabhupada's Books
"Thank you for reading my books and appreciating them. Please continue to do so. That will help you advance nicely in spiritual life. By reading my books and chanting Hare Krishna, your life will become perfect."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, March 14, 1975)
"Sometimes I become surprised how I have written this. Although I am the writer, still sometimes I am surprised how these things have come. Such vivid description. Where is such literature throughout the whole world? It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Every line is perfect."
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, Vrindavan, June 28, 1977)
"Although I am practically on the path of death, still I cannot forget about my publications. I wish that if I live or die you should take very serious care for my publications."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10, 1967)
"I am so much grateful that you have enjoyed studying my books. Many young intelligent persons such as yourself are studying these books in the colleges and universities all over the world. Actually anyone who tries to understand these books will become a great realized devotee of Lord Krishna gradually. The original potency of the sastra remains in these books because I have not added or opinionated anything of my own. I have simply presented the scriptures such as Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam as they are. Therefore just see the effect they have on the world. At present, we have about 100 centers worldwide and about 10,000 fully dedicated students in those centers."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, March 19, 1975)
"My Guru Mahārāja, when he was selecting articles to be published in The Harmonist, if he sees simply that there is, several times the writer has written 'Kṛṣṇa,' 'Lord Caitanya,' like that, he passes immediately: 'All right. It's all right. It is all right.' That so many times he has uttered 'Kṛṣṇa' and 'Caitanya,' so it is all right. So similarly, even if we present our Back to Godhead or any other literature in broken languages, it does not matter because the glorification of the Lord is there. That is recommended by Nārada. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavaḥ. Janatā agha. Agha means sinful activities. If one reads one line of this literature, although it is presented in broken language, but if he simply hears there is Kṛṣṇa, then his sinful activities immediately vanquish."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, New Vrindaban, June 6, 1969)
"You cannot directly approach God. That is useless. You have no power to approach God directly. That is not possible. Guru kṛṣṇa kṛpayā (CC Madhya 19.151). Let them study this philosophy. We have got books, enough books. One cannot read all these books even throughout whole life."
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, December 17, 1970)
"So hearing is not very difficult job. But you must hear from the realized soul. That is... Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. If you hear from a professional man, that will not be effective. Hearing must be from sādhu, from devotee, from the lips of the devotee. Just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī was speaking to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. So ... Or even if you hear yourself, you read books, you will save your life. If you simply read Kṛṣṇa book or Bhagavad-gītā or Teachings of Lord Caitanya, then you know the... As long as you are reading, the sun is unable to take your life. It is not possible for the sun to take your life. So if you constantly read, then where is the opportunity of sun's taking your life? That means you are becoming immortal."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, Los Angeles, June 12, 1972)
"It is just like sugar doll. Anywhere touch—it is sweet. That's all. When I read books, I open anywhere. Any book I take, and anywhere I open, and I read."
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, Atlanta, March 2, 1975)
"Kṛṣṇa is very kind. As soon as he begins reading Kṛṣṇa book with a little faith and adherence, Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ(SB 1.2.17). As soon as Kṛṣṇa is within your heart so when you read Bhagavad-gītā or Kṛṣṇa book with little seriousness, then Kṛṣṇa understands, 'Now he is serious to understand me.' He's with the.... You haven't got to search out Kṛṣṇa, He's already within you. Simply you have to become little serious. 'Kṛṣṇa, kindly give me knowledge so that I can understand.'"
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, Bombay, March 29, 1974)
Indian Man: ...like your company very much in Toronto and we feel like talk you so much, but we don't have so much time to talk with you. You have so much mercy, so we have not... know so much about Kṛṣṇa from you.
Prabhupada: So in my absence you read the books. What I talk, I have written in the books. That's all.
Indian Man: Personally, we think more greater.
Prabhupada: That's all right. But still, you can associate with me by reading my books.
(Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk, Toronto, August 7, 1975)
"Don't feel yourself to be alone because Krishna is always with you. Krishna is always with every living entity as Supersoul, and to His devotee especially He talks and gives instructions how to attain the perfectional stage of meeting Him. So don't feel alone. Always chant whenever possible, read our books, and there will be no great difficulty."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, April 3, 1969)
"So these things, one after another, everything is very clearly explained in this Nectar of Devotion. So each chapter you should read very carefully. And if you cannot understand, read it repeatedly. Don't all of a sudden, reading one or two page, immediately question, 'Prabhupada, what is this? What is this? What is this?' Go on reading, and the answers will automatically come. So this book is, this valuable book is now published. You should take full advantage."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, Los Angeles, June 23, 1970)
"Regarding your Sankirtan, yes, if anyone chants, tries to follow the rules and regulations, and reads our books, he'll be successful in his life."
(Srila Prabhpada Letter, October 16, 1973)
"With record distribution alone, the result is temporary. They will hear it for some time and throw away. Book distribution is solid. Even if they do not read, simply by touching they are benefited. It is so much powerful."
(Srila Prabhpada Letter, February 2, 1975)
"The book sales are very encouraging, increasing, increasing. It is very good news. Thank you, I want this. Record selling is temporary. Even George Harrison's record sales do not continue for a long time. But, a book sold becomes a permanent matter for enjoyment. We read the scriptures again and again and it is still fresh. When there is time I go on reading my own books."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, October 1, 1974)
"Our literatures are unique in the world and we want to introduce our philosophy in learned circles, so your report of library distribution is good news for me. Keep trying to place my books in auspicious places such as libraries, universities, clubs, etc. and someday the world will realize and appreciate these transcendental literatures."
(Srila Prabhupada letter, December 18, 1970)
"Where ever you deliver your lectures to students try to introduce at least our small books. If the students purchase these cheaper, smaller books, they will get a permanent impression of Krishna Consciousness. Especially present them Easy Journey to Other Planets, Topmost Yoga, Beyond Birth and Death, Krishna Trilogy, and Nectar of Instruction—these are cheaper and they can purchase them and read them easily."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, January 27, 1976)
"Along with the restaurants there can be 'Bhaktivedanta Reading Room' where all my books can be kept and people can come and sit comfortably and read. The people will like these restaurants and reading rooms. They will take them as non-sectarian."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, March 16, 1977)
Prabhupada: In modern time, either Hindus, Muslim or Christian, because in these places there is no teaching of philosophy, therefore they are closing, either mosque or temple or church. They will close.
Devotee: They can show no good result for their activities.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is preaching. Therefore we are writing so many books. Unless we take care of the books and preach and read ourself, understand the philosophy, this Hare Kṛṣṇa will be finished within few years. Because there will be no life. How long one can artificially go on, "Hare Kṛṣṇa! Haribol!" That will be artificial, no life.
(Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk, Los Angeles, December 12, 1973)
"Here at Mayapur my guru maharaj was printing one paper. It was selling for only a few paise. Sometimes whenever one brahmacari would go to Navadvipa and sell even a few copies, I would see my guru maharaj become very much pleased. Even if the brahmacari was not a very important member, my guru maharaj would become very, very pleased with him. He personally instructed me that books are more important than big temples. At Radha Kunda he told me that since constructing the big marble temple at Bhag Bazar, there have been so many difficulties. Our men our envious over who will live in which room. I think it would be better to take off all the marbles and sell them and print books. He told me this personally. So I am always emphasizing book distribution. It is the better kirtana. It is better than chanting. Of course chanting should not stop, but book distribution is the best kirtana."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, October 24, 1974)
Op donderdag 24 april 2014 01:05:53 UTC+2 schreef Padmagarbha Das:
Vichal Gajapersad
Jun 6, 2019, 7:33:32 AM6/6/19
to Prabhupadanuga
Srila Prabhupada: Everything is there in my books
Contributed by Dama Ghosha Dasa (Seattle, USA)
Compilation credited to: Jaya Kesava dasa
"After 80 years, no one can be expected to live long. My life is almost ended. So you have to carry on, and these books will do everything."
SPC (BBT 1991) Room Conversation 18/02/76
"There is no need by any of my disciples to read any books besides my books - in fact, such reading may be detrimental to their advancement in Krishna Consciousness. All reading of outside books, except in certain authorized cases such as for example to read some philosopher like Plato to make an essay comparing his philosophy with Krishna's philosophy - but otherwise all such outside reading should be stopped immediately. It is simply another botheration. If my students cannot even read my own books thoroughly, why they should read others? I have given you TLC, what need is there to read Chaitanya Charitamrita translated by someone else. You are right to stop such reading."
SPL (VI 1987) Govinda das 20/01/70
"I have instructed everything in my books."
SPL (VI 1987) Dina Dayala das 25/02/76
"Please continue reading my books seriously and everything will be revealed to you."
SPL (VI 1987) Babhru and Satyaki 18/09/75
"Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura can be learned from our books. There is no need whatsoever for any outside instruction."
SPL (VI 1987) Gurukripa Maharaja 25/12/75
"So utilize whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered."
SPL (VI 1987) Upendra 07/01/76
"If it is possible to go to the temple, then take advantage of the temple. A temple is a place whereby one is given the opportunity to render direct devotional service to the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna. In conjunction with this you should always read my books daily and all your questions will be answered and you will have a firm basis of Krishna Consciousness. In this way your life will be perfect."
SPL (VI 1987) Hugo Salemon 22/11/74
"Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered."
SPL (VI 1987) Randhira 24/01/70
"In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop. [...] You may please me the most by reading the books and following the instructions therein and by becoming fully Krishna Conscious in this life time."
SPL (VI 1987) Brahmarupa das 22/11/74
"Everyone can become a first class speaker. Simply cram the purports of my books. The references are there, the philosophy is there. Everything is there."
SPL (VI 1987) Gopijanavallabha das 19/09/74
Devotee: "Srila Prabhupada when you're not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may arise..."
Srila Prabhupada: "Well the answers are there in my books."
SPC (BBT 1991) Los Angeles 13/05/73
Srila Prabhupada: "Even a moment’s association with a pure devotee - all success!" Revitananda: "Does that apply to reading the words of a pure devotee?"
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes"
Revitananda: "Even a little association with your books has the same effect?"
Srila Prabhupada: "Effect. Of course it requires both things. One must be very eager to take it."
SPC (BBT 1991) Room Conversation 13/12/70
Paramahamsa: "My question is, a pure devotee, when he comments on Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with the commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?"
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes. You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty?"
SPC (BBT 1991) Paris 11/06/74
"There is nothing new to be said. Whatever I had to say, I have already said in my books. Now you must try to understand it and continue with your endeavors. Whether I am present or not does not matter."
SPC (BBT 1991) Vrindavan 17/05/77
"If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way."
BTG (BBT 1977) December 1977
Srila Prabhupada: "So in my absence you read the books. What I talk, I have written in my books. That's all."
Indian Man (2): "Personally, we think more greater."
Srila Prabhupada: "That's all right. But still, you can associate with me by reading my books."
SPC (BBT 1991) Toronto 07/08/75
SPL - Srila Prabhupada Letters
SPC - Srila Prabhupada Conversations
Op donderdag 24 april 2014 01:05:53 UTC+2 schreef Padmagarbha Das:
Vichal Gajapersad
Jun 6, 2019, 7:33:32 AM6/6/19
to Prabhupadanuga
I will never die. I shall live for my books, and you will utilize.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
I will never die. I shall live for my books, and you will utilize.
Reporter (2): How many members in the United States? I'm told two thousand. Is that correct approximately?
Prabhupāda: That they can say.
Jayatīrtha: Well, our published figure is that worldwide membership is ten thousand. How much of that is in the United States isn't exactly broken down.
Reporter (2): I did a story on this movement five years ago and the figure at that time was two thousand in the United States also.
Prabhupāda: It is increasing.
Reporter (2): It is increasing?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Definitely.
Jayatīrtha: I said that the worldwide figure is ten thousand.
Reporter (2): Yes, I understood. Could you tell me how old you are?
Jayatīrtha: He wants to know your age, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: After one month I will be eighty.
Reporter (1): Eighty?
Prabhupāda: Eighty years old.
Reporter (2): What will happen...
Prabhupāda: I was born in 1896, now you can calculate.
Reporter (2): What will happen to the movement in the United States when you die?
Prabhupāda: I will never die.
Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
Prabhupāda: I shall live for my books, and you will utilize.
Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?
Prabhupāda: Yes, my Guru Mahārāja is there. Where is my photo of Guru Mahārāja? I think... Here is.
Reporter (2): Why does the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement not engage in social protest?
Prabhupāda: We are the best social worker. People are fools and rascals. We are teaching them nice idea of God consciousness. We are the best social worker. We will stop all crimes. What is your social work? Producing hippies and criminals. That is not social work. Social work means the population must be very peaceful, wise, intelligent, God conscious, first-class man. That is social work. If you produce some fourth-class, fifth-class, tenth-class of men what is social work? We are producing that. Just see. Here is first-class man. They do not have any bad habit, illicit sex, intoxication, meat eating, or gambling. They are all young men. They are not addicted to all these things. This is social work.
Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they want to know what will be the political effect of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?
Prabhupāda: Everything will be polished if Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is taken. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If this God consciousness is spread, then everyone will be brilliantly qualified. And without God consciousness, the so-called education as we were discussing in the morning, there is no value in it. Simply they are talking. What is the subject matter we were talking?
Bahulāśva: Psychology this morning.
Prabhupāda: The result is the students are falling down from the tower in disappointment. And they are protected with glass.
Bahulāśva: In the bell tower on Berkeley campus students in the 60's would jump from that tower to kill themselves. So they put glass there to stop the students from jumping. So Prabhupāda was explaining that is their education, that after getting their education, they have to jump to commit suicide. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: This is not education. Vidyā dadhāti namratā. Educated means he is humble, gentle, sober, full of knowledge, practical application in life of knowledge, tolerant, control of the mind, control of the senses. That is education. What is this education?
Reporter (2): Are you attempting to form a college?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my next attempt, that we shall educate according to classification. First-class, second-class, third-class, up to fourth-class. And then fifth-class, sixth-class, that is automatically there. So first-class men, there must be, at least in the society, an ideal class of men, and that is one who is trained up for controlling the mind, controlling the senses, very clean, truthful, tolerant, simplicity, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. This is first-class man.
Op donderdag 24 april 2014 01:05:53 UTC+2 schreef Padmagarbha Das:
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