12 quotes from different devotees that prove that Radhanath Swami was directly involved in the murder of Sulochana Prabhu
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Krishna Dasa
Sep 4, 2010, 3:28:41 AM9/4/10
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Why is Radhanath Swami being worshiped in ISKCON as a "saint", if he is guilty of having helped murder a devotee? WHY ISN'T THIS MAN IN PRISON??!?!??!????
1. Kuladri, New Vrindaban's chief manager, was certainly aware of the other devotees who assisted and inspired Tirtha in his mission. Kuladri indirectly implicated Radhanath when he said: "I know Tapahpunja, along with other swamis, were saying that the community had to do whatever is necessary to protect the Swami [Kirtanananda]." At this time there were only three swamis at New Vrindaban: Kirtanananda, Tapahpunja and Radhanath.
(Kuladri dasa, cited by Halasz & Halasz, court reporters, "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. CR 90-87 Keith Gordon Ham, Terry Sheldon, Steven Fitzpatrick, New Vrindaban Community, Inc., Govardhan, Inc., Cathedral of Healing, Inc., Defendants, Before: Honorable Robert R. Merhige, Jr., United States District Judge and a Jury," Day III (March 13, 1991), Martinsburg, West Virginia, 475.)
2. Kuladri claimed that Radhanath was one of the key actors in this sordid drama: "Radhanath, Hayagriva and Tapahpunja were pushing like crazy for this [murder] to happen."
(Kuladri, cited by Dharmatma, from Trial transcript, cited by Halasz & Halasz, court reporters, "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. CR 90-87 Keith Gordon Ham, Terry Sheldon, Steven Fitzpatrick, New Vrindaban Community, Inc., Govardhan, Inc., Cathedral of Healing, Inc., Defendants, Before: Honorable Robert R. Merhige, Jr., United States District Judge and a Jury," Day IV (March 14, 1991), Martinsburg, West Virginia, 832-837, 941.)
3. Dharmatma claimed that Radhanath was involved to some degree: "he [Radhanath] was involved to some degree or had knowledge of Sulochan's murder. I know this for a fact."
(Dharmatma dasa, letter to Hansadutta (August 26, 1994).)
4. Janmastami dasa, who traveled with and assisted Tirtha while conducting surveillance on Sulochan in California, explained how he was recruited to assist in the elimination of Sulochan: "In January of 1986, on my return to New Vrindaban [after the Christmas marathon], I was ordered by Radhanath . . . not by Kirtanananda Swami, to terminate Sulochan. This happened with Tapahpunja Swami and Tirtha in November and December of 1985. I was on traveling sankirtan until Christmas and didn't get back to the farm until New Years. Immediately on our arrival at New Vrindaban, Radhanath sought me out and made arrangements for us to meet in his van, where he went through a prepared speech that he had delivered to Tirtha, Tapahpunja Swami and Kuladri many times before. Later talks with Tirtha confirmed this."
(Janmastami dasa, "New Vrindaban History, for the Record", The Sampradaya Sun (December 22, 2006).
5. Radhanath flattered Janmastami: "You are one of those rare few that Krishna has endowed with the ksatriya spirit and the courage enough to do what has to be done."
(Radhanath Swami, cited by Janmastami dasa, "Chapter Seven: Knowledge of the Absolute is not Absolute Knowledge," accessed from http://www.harekrsna.org/pada/ks/nv/7.htm (November 4, 2008).)
6. Janmastami remembered in more detail:
Radhanath was saying to those he was giving marching orders to: "Sulochan poses a life threat to both Kuladri and to Kirtanananda Swami. He has written that in his diary, and for that reason alone, this guy must be transmigrated to his next body."
Radhanath was clear in his meaning beyond any shadow of a doubt. "Now that Srila Prabhupada has left us, the entire fate of this movement—OUR movement, Lord Caitanya's movement—rests in Kirtanananda Swami's hands, and according to our nature, it is up to us to do whatever we can to help the movement in that regard." . . .
Radhanath had made his pitch to at least a half a dozen sets of sympathetic ears before someone raised these Gita related questions:
"How have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the progressive values of life."
"The words existent and non-existent refer only to spirit and matter. Why worry?"
"How can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, unborn, eternal, and immutable, kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?"
Tough questions, but from a submissive audience. Radhanath was undaunted. He quoted Krishna in his response to a potentially explosive volley of inquiry: "Everything has its proper utility, and a man situated in complete knowledge knows how and where to apply a thing, so there is no possibility of sinful reaction. Also, considering your specific duty as a ksatriya..."
That settled it. The order was there from your bona-fide spiritual authority and it was based on scripture, directly from Krishna. Either you followed those instructions or you were going to hell!
(Janmastami dasa, "Chapter 2: Contents of the Palace, Itemized," accessed from http://liberatedyogi.tripod.com.)
7. Janmastami's story was collaborated by two eyewitnesses. Bhaktipada's chauffeur confirmed: "I was privy to much behind-the-scenes action, and I was there when Radhanath told Janmastami to ‘destroy the demon.'"
(Priyavenu dasa, conversation with the author (September 14, 2003).)
8. A teenage gurukula boy who served under Janmastami also claimed he overheard Radhanath order Janmastami to "destroy the demon."
(Harivrata dasa, conversation with the author (January 9, 2007).)
9. When Ramachandra dasa, a New Vrindaban sankirtan picker, asked Radhanath Swami: "Do you know who killed Sulochan?" Radhanath replied: "I don't know, but whoever it was, he was doing devotional service to Krishna."
(Ramachandra dasa, from a conversation with the author on April 10, 2007.)
10. Dharmatma continued his recollection of the day of the murder and remembered how Kuladri named three instigators who "were pushing like crazy for this to happen."
"Later on after the morning functions, I had a discussion with Kuladri. He was quite disturbed. He mentioned . . . how it shouldn't have been done like that. And that how Radhanath, Hayagriva and Tapahpunja were pushing like crazy for this to happen, and how he had told them not to do it."
(Dharmatma, from Trial transcript, cited by Halasz & Halasz, court reporters, "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. CR 90-87 Keith Gordon Ham, Terry Sheldon, Steven Fitzpatrick, New Vrindaban Community, Inc., Govardhan, Inc., Cathedral of Healing, Inc., Defendants, Before: Honorable Robert R. Merhige, Jr., United States District Judge and a Jury," Day IV (March 14, 1991), Martinsburg, West Virginia, 832-837, 941.)
11. Janmastami collaborated: "Kuladri was VERY, VERY frightened by the time it was coming to ‘reaction time' because he knew that he and Radhanath were in very deep doo-doo."
(Janmastami, e-mail letter to the author (August 1, 2008).)
12. Although Tirtha successfully flew from California to Ohio, he was still in dire straits; New Vrindaban hadn't paid him what they promised, and he needed money to purchase plane tickets to get out of the country—fast. Dharmatma described how Bhaktipada and Radhanath came to him to pick up the escape money at the sankirtan house:
"The next day Bhaktipada, along with Radhanath, drove up in my driveway in Bhaktipada's vehicle and tooted the horn for me to come outside. When I came to the car we engaged in some small talk, I don't remember what. And then Bhaktipada asked me if I had six thousand dollars cash in the house. And I said, "I don't know. I will see if you want." He told me to go in and see if I had six thousand dollars.
I went in the house and went into my safe and . . . I counted out six thousand dollars and brought it out to him, and handed it in through the window. I don't remember if I gave it to Radhanath and he passed it to Bhaktipada, or I gave it directly to Bhaktipada. The mood was a little bit strained, and I said, "What is this? So they [Tirtha and Tapahpunja] can get out of the country?" And Bhaktipada and Radhanath smiled and nodded their heads: "Yes." And then they said, "Hey, we've got to go," and they left.
(Dharmatma, from Trial transcript, cited by Halasz & Halasz, court reporters, "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. CR 90-87 Keith Gordon Ham, Terry Sheldon, Steven Fitzpatrick, New Vrindaban Community, Inc., Govardhan, Inc., Cathedral of Healing, Inc., Defendants, Before: Honorable Robert R. Merhige, Jr., United States District Judge and a Jury," Day IV (March 14, 1991), Martinsburg, West Virginia, 832-837, 941.)
1. Kuladri, New Vrindaban's chief manager, was certainly aware of the other devotees who assisted and inspired Tirtha in his mission. Kuladri indirectly implicated Radhanath when he said: "I know Tapahpunja, along with other swamis, were saying that the community had to do whatever is necessary to protect the Swami [Kirtanananda]." At this time there were only three swamis at New Vrindaban: Kirtanananda, Tapahpunja and Radhanath.
(Kuladri dasa, cited by Halasz & Halasz, court reporters, "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. CR 90-87 Keith Gordon Ham, Terry Sheldon, Steven Fitzpatrick, New Vrindaban Community, Inc., Govardhan, Inc., Cathedral of Healing, Inc., Defendants, Before: Honorable Robert R. Merhige, Jr., United States District Judge and a Jury," Day III (March 13, 1991), Martinsburg, West Virginia, 475.)
2. Kuladri claimed that Radhanath was one of the key actors in this sordid drama: "Radhanath, Hayagriva and Tapahpunja were pushing like crazy for this [murder] to happen."
(Kuladri, cited by Dharmatma, from Trial transcript, cited by Halasz & Halasz, court reporters, "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. CR 90-87 Keith Gordon Ham, Terry Sheldon, Steven Fitzpatrick, New Vrindaban Community, Inc., Govardhan, Inc., Cathedral of Healing, Inc., Defendants, Before: Honorable Robert R. Merhige, Jr., United States District Judge and a Jury," Day IV (March 14, 1991), Martinsburg, West Virginia, 832-837, 941.)
3. Dharmatma claimed that Radhanath was involved to some degree: "he [Radhanath] was involved to some degree or had knowledge of Sulochan's murder. I know this for a fact."
(Dharmatma dasa, letter to Hansadutta (August 26, 1994).)
4. Janmastami dasa, who traveled with and assisted Tirtha while conducting surveillance on Sulochan in California, explained how he was recruited to assist in the elimination of Sulochan: "In January of 1986, on my return to New Vrindaban [after the Christmas marathon], I was ordered by Radhanath . . . not by Kirtanananda Swami, to terminate Sulochan. This happened with Tapahpunja Swami and Tirtha in November and December of 1985. I was on traveling sankirtan until Christmas and didn't get back to the farm until New Years. Immediately on our arrival at New Vrindaban, Radhanath sought me out and made arrangements for us to meet in his van, where he went through a prepared speech that he had delivered to Tirtha, Tapahpunja Swami and Kuladri many times before. Later talks with Tirtha confirmed this."
(Janmastami dasa, "New Vrindaban History, for the Record", The Sampradaya Sun (December 22, 2006).
5. Radhanath flattered Janmastami: "You are one of those rare few that Krishna has endowed with the ksatriya spirit and the courage enough to do what has to be done."
(Radhanath Swami, cited by Janmastami dasa, "Chapter Seven: Knowledge of the Absolute is not Absolute Knowledge," accessed from http://www.harekrsna.org/pada/ks/nv/7.htm (November 4, 2008).)
6. Janmastami remembered in more detail:
Radhanath was saying to those he was giving marching orders to: "Sulochan poses a life threat to both Kuladri and to Kirtanananda Swami. He has written that in his diary, and for that reason alone, this guy must be transmigrated to his next body."
Radhanath was clear in his meaning beyond any shadow of a doubt. "Now that Srila Prabhupada has left us, the entire fate of this movement—OUR movement, Lord Caitanya's movement—rests in Kirtanananda Swami's hands, and according to our nature, it is up to us to do whatever we can to help the movement in that regard." . . .
Radhanath had made his pitch to at least a half a dozen sets of sympathetic ears before someone raised these Gita related questions:
"How have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the progressive values of life."
"The words existent and non-existent refer only to spirit and matter. Why worry?"
"How can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, unborn, eternal, and immutable, kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?"
Tough questions, but from a submissive audience. Radhanath was undaunted. He quoted Krishna in his response to a potentially explosive volley of inquiry: "Everything has its proper utility, and a man situated in complete knowledge knows how and where to apply a thing, so there is no possibility of sinful reaction. Also, considering your specific duty as a ksatriya..."
That settled it. The order was there from your bona-fide spiritual authority and it was based on scripture, directly from Krishna. Either you followed those instructions or you were going to hell!
(Janmastami dasa, "Chapter 2: Contents of the Palace, Itemized," accessed from http://liberatedyogi.tripod.com.)
7. Janmastami's story was collaborated by two eyewitnesses. Bhaktipada's chauffeur confirmed: "I was privy to much behind-the-scenes action, and I was there when Radhanath told Janmastami to ‘destroy the demon.'"
(Priyavenu dasa, conversation with the author (September 14, 2003).)
8. A teenage gurukula boy who served under Janmastami also claimed he overheard Radhanath order Janmastami to "destroy the demon."
(Harivrata dasa, conversation with the author (January 9, 2007).)
9. When Ramachandra dasa, a New Vrindaban sankirtan picker, asked Radhanath Swami: "Do you know who killed Sulochan?" Radhanath replied: "I don't know, but whoever it was, he was doing devotional service to Krishna."
(Ramachandra dasa, from a conversation with the author on April 10, 2007.)
10. Dharmatma continued his recollection of the day of the murder and remembered how Kuladri named three instigators who "were pushing like crazy for this to happen."
"Later on after the morning functions, I had a discussion with Kuladri. He was quite disturbed. He mentioned . . . how it shouldn't have been done like that. And that how Radhanath, Hayagriva and Tapahpunja were pushing like crazy for this to happen, and how he had told them not to do it."
(Dharmatma, from Trial transcript, cited by Halasz & Halasz, court reporters, "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. CR 90-87 Keith Gordon Ham, Terry Sheldon, Steven Fitzpatrick, New Vrindaban Community, Inc., Govardhan, Inc., Cathedral of Healing, Inc., Defendants, Before: Honorable Robert R. Merhige, Jr., United States District Judge and a Jury," Day IV (March 14, 1991), Martinsburg, West Virginia, 832-837, 941.)
11. Janmastami collaborated: "Kuladri was VERY, VERY frightened by the time it was coming to ‘reaction time' because he knew that he and Radhanath were in very deep doo-doo."
(Janmastami, e-mail letter to the author (August 1, 2008).)
12. Although Tirtha successfully flew from California to Ohio, he was still in dire straits; New Vrindaban hadn't paid him what they promised, and he needed money to purchase plane tickets to get out of the country—fast. Dharmatma described how Bhaktipada and Radhanath came to him to pick up the escape money at the sankirtan house:
"The next day Bhaktipada, along with Radhanath, drove up in my driveway in Bhaktipada's vehicle and tooted the horn for me to come outside. When I came to the car we engaged in some small talk, I don't remember what. And then Bhaktipada asked me if I had six thousand dollars cash in the house. And I said, "I don't know. I will see if you want." He told me to go in and see if I had six thousand dollars.
I went in the house and went into my safe and . . . I counted out six thousand dollars and brought it out to him, and handed it in through the window. I don't remember if I gave it to Radhanath and he passed it to Bhaktipada, or I gave it directly to Bhaktipada. The mood was a little bit strained, and I said, "What is this? So they [Tirtha and Tapahpunja] can get out of the country?" And Bhaktipada and Radhanath smiled and nodded their heads: "Yes." And then they said, "Hey, we've got to go," and they left.
(Dharmatma, from Trial transcript, cited by Halasz & Halasz, court reporters, "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. CR 90-87 Keith Gordon Ham, Terry Sheldon, Steven Fitzpatrick, New Vrindaban Community, Inc., Govardhan, Inc., Cathedral of Healing, Inc., Defendants, Before: Honorable Robert R. Merhige, Jr., United States District Judge and a Jury," Day IV (March 14, 1991), Martinsburg, West Virginia, 832-837, 941.)
rainer hahn
Sep 4, 2010, 3:57:32 AM9/4/10
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ancient principle of 'no plaintiff, no judge'
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rainer hahn
Sep 4, 2010, 3:27:47 PM9/4/10
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Dear Prabhus | PAMHO | AGTSP
Then.......if you have 12 quotes and did not present them before the court, why?
All over Europe you are put into imprisonment on remand when calling others criminal and not having them properly convicted by legally binding court decision.
Ancient principle of 'no plaintiff, no judge'. The US Prabhupadanugas could not manage to bring valid legal means before the court of law? Why? What went wrong? Nothing was presented at court?
According European law you are spotless unless there is a legally binding court decision. Additionally, Radhanatha Swami is jewish. Calling a Jew that he is a criminal without having a court decision brings you behind bars additionally for three more years.
You don't have such laws in US, but please consider that there are other countries with other laws. Europeans cannot indulge in such accusation what is de facto not even civil law but criminal law.
Furthermore, the limitation period for such claim, even if it was admissable, might be already expired.
Next thing is, Krishna did not stop Radhanatha. The opposite happened, he could start a huge success story in India.
And this is the main point here, we don't live in the epoch of mahabharata where ksatriyas fought for justice. Devotees in Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement basically depend on Krishna's arrangement and nothing else.
If by Krishna's arrangement we are in the position to act like Prabhupada used to mention to enforce e.g. stuff like cow protection, then devotees of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement surely do this.
However, the situation right now is rather the opposite, our position is to tolerate, to persevere and to be humble.
They say ISKCON has worldwide 1 mio congregational members. Meanwhile these 1 mio people all heard about these accusations. Is there anybody convinced that the Prabhupadanugas are correct?
So far when reading the forums of rank&file ISKCONites, they fight back against the Prabhupadanugas like mad. Not that they are afraid of the GBC and keep quiet. No, they fight like crazy against us, all of them.
So, to go on calling them homosexuals, criminals, murderers, without having legal means to present before a court is rather a complete waste of effort.
ISKCON's congregation is dissociating from the Prabhupadanugas more and more.
Instead we have to defeat them philosophically with solid sastrical proof and actually follow Prabhupada's footsteps. Isnt this the actual meaning of Prabhupadanuga? To do things like Prabhupada did it?
ys
Rammohan das
Then.......if you have 12 quotes and did not present them before the court, why?
All over Europe you are put into imprisonment on remand when calling others criminal and not having them properly convicted by legally binding court decision.
Ancient principle of 'no plaintiff, no judge'. The US Prabhupadanugas could not manage to bring valid legal means before the court of law? Why? What went wrong? Nothing was presented at court?
According European law you are spotless unless there is a legally binding court decision. Additionally, Radhanatha Swami is jewish. Calling a Jew that he is a criminal without having a court decision brings you behind bars additionally for three more years.
You don't have such laws in US, but please consider that there are other countries with other laws. Europeans cannot indulge in such accusation what is de facto not even civil law but criminal law.
Furthermore, the limitation period for such claim, even if it was admissable, might be already expired.
Next thing is, Krishna did not stop Radhanatha. The opposite happened, he could start a huge success story in India.
And this is the main point here, we don't live in the epoch of mahabharata where ksatriyas fought for justice. Devotees in Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement basically depend on Krishna's arrangement and nothing else.
If by Krishna's arrangement we are in the position to act like Prabhupada used to mention to enforce e.g. stuff like cow protection, then devotees of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement surely do this.
However, the situation right now is rather the opposite, our position is to tolerate, to persevere and to be humble.
They say ISKCON has worldwide 1 mio congregational members. Meanwhile these 1 mio people all heard about these accusations. Is there anybody convinced that the Prabhupadanugas are correct?
So far when reading the forums of rank&file ISKCONites, they fight back against the Prabhupadanugas like mad. Not that they are afraid of the GBC and keep quiet. No, they fight like crazy against us, all of them.
So, to go on calling them homosexuals, criminals, murderers, without having legal means to present before a court is rather a complete waste of effort.
ISKCON's congregation is dissociating from the Prabhupadanugas more and more.
Instead we have to defeat them philosophically with solid sastrical proof and actually follow Prabhupada's footsteps. Isnt this the actual meaning of Prabhupadanuga? To do things like Prabhupada did it?
ys
Rammohan das
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:27 PM, larry freeman p <lak...@webtv.net> wrote:
From: krishna...@hotmail.com
To: istag...@googlegroups.com; cc...@yahoo.com; adik...@gmail.com; bhag...@hotmail.com; haldha...@yahoo.com; ra...@videotron.ca; veda...@vedaveda.com; at...@yogamandir.com; jfedo...@oxfordlaw.com; d...@goravani.com
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] 12 quotes from different devotees that prove that Radhanath Swami was directly involved in the murder of Sulochana Prabhu
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 07:28:41 +0000
larry freeman p
Sep 4, 2010, 4:45:40 PM9/4/10
to ista gosthi
is Radhanath the 'face' of vaisnavism you want to have for the world?
isn't his mentality: 'who is my next slave'?
although he is posturing himself as the 'king' of the world of vaisnavism;
are the humans really that dumb?
will he withstand the scrutiny?
will he morph into the ideal image of a devotee?
or a black eye?
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 21:27:47 +0200
Subject: Re: FW: [Prabhupadanuga] 12 quotes from different devotees that prove that Radhanath Swami was directly involved in the murder of Sulochana Prabhu
From: raine...@gmail.com
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 21:27:47 +0200
Subject: Re: FW: [Prabhupadanuga] 12 quotes from different devotees that prove that Radhanath Swami was directly involved in the murder of Sulochana Prabhu
From: raine...@gmail.com
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
lakshmi kary
Sep 4, 2010, 10:17:28 PM9/4/10
to istag...@googlegroups.com
Hare Krishna
Dear Prabhus,
I also think , is this an example of someone(radhanatha) we want representing the Hare Krishna movement?
I guess there wasnt enough evidence against Radhanath, or more than likely he testified against Bhaktipada for not being prosecuted.
There were a number of known child molesters in NV in 1985... like Sri Galim, Lalit,that black bodied man with the 3 muslim wives dressed in white that used to stick hoses down the kids throat and beat them.He beat his wives too.
Did any of them serve time? Probably no,
I butt many of them are still molesting others..
well they didnt get punishment this life they will sooner or later, Krishna will make sure of it.
Lakshmi
rainer hahn
Sep 5, 2010, 1:50:25 AM9/5/10
to istag...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Larry Freeman, pamho, agtSP, agreed, the whole thing is illegal.
Same situation when 1937 Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja left this physical world.
It took 30 years till they realized that they were stuck and Prabhupada was having success to follow the order of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and establish Lord Caitanya's global Sankirtan Movement.
If people want to be cheated Krsna sends them an appointed neophyte conditioned soul guru and both, cheater and cheated are happy. This is present status, ISKCON's congragational members fight like mad against the Prabhupadanuga process.
At the same time, this is the scheme of this material world, especially kali-yuga, cheaters are evrywhere. As soon as cheated disciples wake up and want a genuine spiritual master, Krsna arranges the needfull. This much faith we must have. Thats what Prabhupada says, "As soon as sees, Krsna, that, “Here is a sincere person who wants Me,” He’ll give you nice guru. Guru-krsna krpa. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadat. And if you have really a bona fide guru, then by pleasing him you will get the favor of Krsna."
Therefore, explain what is genuine spirituality and when you are able to convince people about what is genuine guru-tattva, Krsna will do the rest, remove the deviants, remove the obstacles.
Same situation when 1937 Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja left this physical world.
It took 30 years till they realized that they were stuck and Prabhupada was having success to follow the order of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and establish Lord Caitanya's global Sankirtan Movement.
If people want to be cheated Krsna sends them an appointed neophyte conditioned soul guru and both, cheater and cheated are happy. This is present status, ISKCON's congragational members fight like mad against the Prabhupadanuga process.
At the same time, this is the scheme of this material world, especially kali-yuga, cheaters are evrywhere. As soon as cheated disciples wake up and want a genuine spiritual master, Krsna arranges the needfull. This much faith we must have. Thats what Prabhupada says, "As soon as sees, Krsna, that, “Here is a sincere person who wants Me,” He’ll give you nice guru. Guru-krsna krpa. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadat. And if you have really a bona fide guru, then by pleasing him you will get the favor of Krsna."
Therefore, explain what is genuine spirituality and when you are able to convince people about what is genuine guru-tattva, Krsna will do the rest, remove the deviants, remove the obstacles.
rainer hahn
Sep 5, 2010, 2:37:15 AM9/5/10
to istag...@googlegroups.com
Hare Krishna
Dear Lakshmi prabhu, pamho, agtSP, agreed, almost all devotees, ISKCONites included, believe that there are skeletons in the closet, crimes committed by so called Vaishnavas.
However, crimes like murder and pedophile belong to that category of having res judicata, final judgement. You can go public with, "my neighbor smokes dope", when you know it.
However, to accuse someone of being a poisoner, murderer or assistance in committing murder without going to police and having that person behind bars?
Any hillbilly can manage to give notice if someone was murdered? But this is exactly what happened, except Drescher nobody was sentenced. Bhaktipada acquitted "for want of evidence". Bhavananda again giving lectures in Mayapur, etc etc.
Kirtananda was in federal prison for 9 years because of some white collar crime.. Thats why now Indians give him a red carpet, oh, he offended the american way of life, thats nice, he's my guru, etc etc.
In sum, the Prabhupadanugas should defeat opposing elements by sastric proof, not for the rest of our short lifes to remain stuck with dilettantish back and forth debates.
ys
Rammohan das
Dear Lakshmi prabhu, pamho, agtSP, agreed, almost all devotees, ISKCONites included, believe that there are skeletons in the closet, crimes committed by so called Vaishnavas.
However, crimes like murder and pedophile belong to that category of having res judicata, final judgement. You can go public with, "my neighbor smokes dope", when you know it.
However, to accuse someone of being a poisoner, murderer or assistance in committing murder without going to police and having that person behind bars?
Any hillbilly can manage to give notice if someone was murdered? But this is exactly what happened, except Drescher nobody was sentenced. Bhaktipada acquitted "for want of evidence". Bhavananda again giving lectures in Mayapur, etc etc.
Kirtananda was in federal prison for 9 years because of some white collar crime.. Thats why now Indians give him a red carpet, oh, he offended the american way of life, thats nice, he's my guru, etc etc.
In sum, the Prabhupadanugas should defeat opposing elements by sastric proof, not for the rest of our short lifes to remain stuck with dilettantish back and forth debates.
ys
Rammohan das
larry freeman p
Sep 5, 2010, 2:53:28 PM9/5/10
to ista gosthi
yes, Rammohan das:
agreement,
we need the right focus;
certainly NOT thinking of negative persons at death!
one 'strategy': explain Iskcon as a 2 year (hopefully/potentially) boot camp;
wherein a few 'make it' (for 2 years);
and most don't.
and then, when 'out', one must become totally sincere,
and move heart and soul towards the goal: BTG.
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 07:50:25 +0200es
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] 12 quotes from different devotees that prove that Radhanath Swami was directly involved in the murder of Sulochana Prabhu
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 07:50:25 +0200es
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] 12 quotes from different devotees that prove that Radhanath Swami was directly involved in the murder of Sulochana Prabhu
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