Mouse control problem on Macintosh

[zencuke]

iPhone 3GS - I just bought issh and switched my Mac to the vine
server. I was pretty excited to connect on the first try but I have a
couple of problems.

1) I can't switch applications because I can't get the mouse all the
way to the left edge which is where I have my task bar. This makes
things difficult.

2) I started this note from the iPhone but got frustrated with typing.
The normal VNC lag makes it hard. I wish the keyboard had a local text
bar as in most iPhone apps. I need the instant feedback to make up for
my clumsy fingers on the tiny iPhone keyboard. The tap cursor
interface doesn't help because it is impossible to tap with any
precision. The mouse needs gestures as well as clicks for many
applications. For example how would I ever draw a line only being able
to click the cursor instantly nto a new location.

3) For the life of me I can't figure out how to end a connection
except by deleting the configuration which seems a little extreme.
Oops! I just discovered that switching apps breaks the connection but
that is user unfriendly. Why should I have to log in again just
because the phone rang and I wanted to answer.

If I had my druthers I'd prefer that the window scrolling either be a
special mode or special key controlled and the finger gestures be used
instead to control a visible cursor. The mouse needs to move, not
jump.

Unfortunately if I can't get to the task bar this application is
pretty useless for me. The ssh part of this product seems solid but
the VNC doesn't seem to have been well thought through.

[Dean]

This is all very good feedback. I'll admit the VNC interface isn't
perfect, but I designed it counter to how some other VNC apps work,
such as Jaadu VNC, where arrow keys, key combinations and the like
cover the entire screen and render any feedback completely useless
until dismissed.

Regarding your first concern, however, I went and tested several other
VNC clients, including Jaadu and Mocha. You'll have the same problem
if you use any other the other apps with their "Touchscreen Mode."
Jaadu also has an option available where it moves the mouse and screen
at the same time with swiping gestures. This is something that has
been requested several times for iSSH and it's not a big request. If
you're willing to wait for a release cycle (or an ad hoc release),
I'll make this mouse mode of operation available as well.

An area for typing is a common request as well and I can assure you
it's coming in a future release.

Finally, to end a connection, it's a matter of swiping to delete it
from the "Active Connections" list. I'm revamping this display as
well to make it more apparent that it's an active connection that can
be deleted. What I have in mind at the moment is a series of icons
like the iPhone App screen itself that can be disconnected via an X in
the corner.

There's nothing I can do about keeping a connection open in between
phone calls. An incoming phone call closes the application. This is
by Apple's design and there's nothing I or any of the other iPhone
developers can do about it.

I've been trying to keep a relatively tight release schedule so expect
these features soon enough!

Dean

[Steve Morris]

I'll be eagerly waiting for upgrades. I assume news of these will be posted here. I figured out that I can work around the major mouse problem by not hiding the dock.  Then I don't need the mouse to hit the edge. The lack of precice and controllable mouse cursor gestures will stop me from using some applications through the iPhone but so far none I can't live without.

What I particularly liked about iSSH was the no fuss way everything just worked. I didn't have to remember how ssh tunneling works like I do with most command line VNC clients.

My next test will be to get xemacs working with the X11 server. I shouldn't need precise mouse gestures for that. It that gives me trouble text mode emacs in a terminal emulator will probably be fine for most things I want to do. That is another thing I like about iSSH. It offers me layers of support. If one doesn't work I just try another. It is a regular one stop shopping tool for communications.

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[Jared Earle]

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 11:55 PM, zencuke <barbers...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oops! I just discovered that switching apps breaks the connection but
that is user unfriendly. Why should I have to log in again just
because the phone rang and I wanted to answer.

 

That's easy: Stop using a phone as a VNC client. :-)

--
Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK
jea...@gmail.com :: http://jearle.eu
Hosting :: http://cat5.org
Blog :: http://blog.23x.net

[Steve Morris]

Jared,

Not only was this post a non sequitur; it wasn't even funny. I'm puzzled why you bothered to post it.

Steve

[Dean]

I got it. Just seems like someone forgot a pair of <sarcasm> tags. Not
saying everythings perfect and that we can't keep improving, but with
phones and portable devices, we've certainly come a very long way in a
decade!

Dean

On Dec 13, 7:52 am, Steve Morris <barbershopst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jared,
>
> Not only was this post a non sequitur; it wasn't even funny. I'm puzzled why
> you bothered to post it.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 6:08 AM, Jared Earle <jea...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 11:55 PM, zencuke <barbershopst...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Oops! I just discovered that switching apps breaks the connection but
> >> that is user unfriendly. Why should I have to log in again just
> >> because the phone rang and I wanted to answer.
>
> > That's easy: Stop using a phone as a VNC client. :-)
>
> > --
> > Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK
> > jea...@gmail.com ::http://jearle.eu
> > Hosting ::http://cat5.org
> > Blog ::http://blog.23x.net
>
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "iSSH/iX11" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to is...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > issh+uns...@googlegroups.com <issh%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

[Scott C. Kennedy]

To improve my feedback in typing & VNC updates, I charged to the 8 bit
color mode, and that speed things up for me locally. Also, if you are on
the same network, like sitting downstairs and VNC'ed to your Mac
upstairs, you can use the "RAW" mode and just connect to VNC without the
SSH tunnel.

Not the most perfect of solutions but workable for me. I use iSSH as an
SSH app more than a VNC client, but I love the ability it gives me. Best
App purchase EVER!

Scott

> --
>
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[Steve Morris]

You are being too nice. I got the fact that Jared was being sarcastic.
It is just that the English of his reply made no sense as a reply to
my question. If it had made sense it might have been slightly funny. I
appreciate sarcastic humor once in a while. However as worded Jared's
post just sounded childish, petulant and ignorant.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to issh+uns...@googlegroups.com.

[Jared Earle]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Steve Morris <barbers...@gmail.com> wrote:

You are being too nice. I got the fact that Jared was being sarcastic.
It is just that the English of his reply made no sense as a reply to
my question. If it had made sense it might have been slightly funny. I
appreciate sarcastic humor once in a while. However as worded Jared's
post just sounded childish, petulant and ignorant.

You've got to take into account that you're using as phone as a VNC client. Unless you have background third-party applications allowed, which the iPhone doesn't, then you can't keep TCP connections open when you answer the phone.

It's a phone. A phone that does other things admittedly, but a phone primarily. 

Third-party application writers can't change the way the phone works as a phone. To expect them to do so is unrealistic and deserving of a British-style sarcastic quip.

[Steve Morris]

Jared,

I have many British friends and the difference between their sarcasm
and yours is that theirs makes sense and is funny. You can't hide
behind your nationality. British humor is legendary but ignorance is
ignorance wherever in the world it is found.

Your analysis of the iPhone is also wrong. Unlike most other phones
(Android based phones excluded) the iPhone is primarily a UNIX (OS X)
based computer, with phone hardware attached to it. It is essentially
a stripped down Macintosh. Restrictions like terminating applications
when the phone app runs are not inherent in the hardware but are
instead applied by the Apple app software environment. Those
artificial restrictions are not obvious to long time UNIX experts like
myself.

Apple is walking a delicate line. They want to support powerful
applications but don't want to be perceived as enabling hackers to
attack the wireless networks. As an example I'm sure they could
shutdown jail-breaking if they applied themselves. Instead they make
it just hard enough to convince the phone companies they take the
issue seriously and protect themselves from lawsuits but not hard
enough to stop it.

Steve

[Jared Earle]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Steve Morris <barbers...@gmail.com> wrote:

Your analysis of the iPhone is also wrong. Unlike most other phones
(Android based phones excluded) the iPhone is primarily a UNIX (OS X)
based computer, with phone hardware attached to it. It is essentially
a stripped down Macintosh. Restrictions like terminating applications
when the phone app runs are not inherent in the hardware but are
instead applied by the Apple app software environment. Those
artificial restrictions are not obvious to long time UNIX experts like
myself.

Then my pointing out to you of the fact that when using a phone to do UNIX tasks, you need to remember you're using a phone would have been educational.

You're not using a Netbook; you're using an iPhone. The sooner you change your outlook to that, you'll get on much better with apps and connectivity. Apple's developer guidelines are that your app WILL quit when the system wants it to and you need to develop to that. Dropping the connection is the ideal solution here and reopening your session without authorisation is a security hole the way I see it.

 

Apple is walking a delicate line. They want to support powerful
applications but don't want to be perceived as enabling hackers to
attack the wireless networks. As an example I'm sure they could
shutdown jail-breaking if they applied themselves. Instead they make
it just hard enough to convince the phone companies they take the
issue seriously and protect themselves from lawsuits but not hard
enough to stop it.

Apple don't like Jailbreaking and don't want you to do it. They're not just paying lip service; they are actively seeking ways of securing the phone to the point Jailbreaking will be impossible. What you call enabling jailbreaking, Apple refer to as security failings. 

Apple manage expectations by ensuring you can't make them look bad. No background apps because the phone loses performance and battery life, making it appear to be worse than it is. If you honestly believe jailbreaking doesn't make Apple execs angry, you are not familiar with the way they do business. 

Anyway, I'm done here. I was just taking umbrage that you were reporting as bugs facts that are unavoidable and in fact expected behaviour. I'm not apologetic you took offense, but it was done in jest as opposed to maliciousness.

[Steve Morris]

Jared get over it. You thought I was ignorant and wanted to have some
fun by putting me down for the simple purpose of making yourself look
better at my expense. Sarcastic putdowns are seldom done for any other
purpose. You were sloppy and said it poorly and have been making
excuses ever since. Each of your posts is more complex and ridiculous.
There was nothing I deserved to be put down for even if you had done
so competently. I am an experienced emedded developer and don't need
to change my outlook about anything. I just needed an answer to my
legitimate question and your none of your silly posts have added
anything to the discussion. It is not exactly a surprise that an
iPhone is a phone and that is all you have said so far. I wasn't even
even asking as a potential developer, I was asking as a user trying to
understand how to use the potentially valuable tool I just purchased.

I notice you have clipped the thread quote so it no longer includes
your original post or my original question. I think that tells the
tale. Your post speaks for itself and it embarrasses you.

You were simply wrong. Admit it like a man and let's move on and stop
wasting the time of the members of this list.

Steve