Ahab and Carpenter

[fin john]

Folks,

 

      In chapter 108, "Ahab and the Carpenter," the carpenter speaks but does not sound much like Christ.

 

      Ahab mentions his phantom limb pain. Despite having an artificial leg, he still feels "another leg in the same identical place with it," "my old lost leg, the flesh and blood one."

 

     Then Ahab insists to the carpenter: "Look, put thy live leg here in the place where mine once was; so, now, here is only one distinct leg to the eye, yet two to the soul."

 

    But the carpenter becomes perplexed: "And this is his leg; he'll stand on this. What was that now about one leg standing in three places, and all three places standing in one hell---how was that?"

 

    Is the carpenter simply confused or can you picture three legs standing in one spot? Is this an intended carry-over of a theme of tripleness? and why?

 

 

  John Gretchko

[Ffrangcon Lewis]

Dear John and all,                           I have been charmed by the various contributions to the discussion about the carpenter's role in 'Moby-Dick'.  All of them seem useful and thought-provoking.  Hardeman's comments about the carpenter as a Christ-figure of some degree were particularly apt, I thought, and made me try to compare and contrast him with Bartleby.  Is the carpenter an impassive Christ compared with a passive one in the figure of the scrivener? In both texts, the extent to which Melville is satirising Christianity per se or only various versions of it is a vexed one  Possibly this is another reason for remembering to consider the carpenter in relation to the blacksmith, in that Melville may have had in mind the conventions of conversion and confession narratives of his own time and earlier.  Meanwhile, and with apologies for ending on a possibly facetious note, John's question about the leg in three places suggests to me that the Manxman might well be the member of the crew he needs  to interrogate. Best wishes, Ffrangcon Lewis --- On Mon, 8/16/10, fin john <stein....@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Ackin]

>John's question about the leg in three places suggests to me that the Manxman might well be the member of the crew he needs  to interrogate.

Ffrangcon, do you have a triskelion in mind?

Nick

[Hardeman]

Dear John, Ffrangcon and Fellow Carpenters,

It has always seemed to me that Melville is putting us on about the
Trinity when
you consider the "phantom limb" in the following as a ghost linking
Ahab and The Carpenter.

""Look, put thy live leg here in the place where mine once was; so,
now, here is only one distinct leg to the
eye, yet two to the soul."

Hardeman

On 17 août, 00:04, Ffrangcon Lewis <ffrangconle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear John and all,
>
>                           I have been charmed by the various contributions to the discussion about the carpenter's role in 'Moby-Dick'.  All of them seem useful and thought-provoking.  Hardeman's comments about the carpenter as a Christ-figure of some degree were particularly apt, I thought, and made me try to compare and contrast him with Bartleby.  Is the carpenter an impassive Christ compared with a passive one in the figure of the scrivener? In both texts, the extent to which Melville is satirising Christianity per se or only various versions of it is a vexed one  Possibly this is another reason for remembering to consider the carpenter in relation to the blacksmith, in that Melville may have had in mind the conventions of conversion and confession narratives of his own time and earlier.  Meanwhile, and with apologies for ending on a possibly facetious note, John's question about the leg in three places suggests to me
>  that the Manxman might well be the member of the crew he needs  to interrogate.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ffrangcon Lewis
>

> --- On Mon, 8/16/10, fin john <stein.fin...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Phil Walsh]

And the Carpenter speaks for those whose reaction to the doctrine of the
Trinity is "Huh?" :

"What was that now about one leg standing in three places, and all three

places standing in one hell--how was that?"

Phil

[Hardeman]

Phil,
That the Carpenter would not be familiar with the Trinity is not
surprising.
As you know this concept was created by the early church thinkers to
solve their question of whether or not Jesus was of the same
substance
as God or man or whatever. This was not a question for Jesus or
Melville's Carpenter
but for people stuck in their heads. The Carpenters do not reflect,
they just offer their services.

If the perspective that Melville is satirizing a canonical Christian
view of Christ is valid, it would be
consistent for either Carpenter to be blind to rationalizations. It
would also be consistent for people
who believe they know "the ungraspable phantom of life" that links us
together to use God as a screwdriver.

After all Ahab was so sure he was willing to kill with his last
breath. At least the Carpenter did not fool himself with his beliefs;
Whatever the Carpenter represents in human nature, his process bridges
the gap between reality and illusion
as a leg to stand on, useful and artificial though it may be.


Hardeman

> > Hardeman- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Hardeman]

Phil,
That the Carpenter would not be familiar with the Trinity is not
surprising.
As you know this concept was created by the early church thinkers to
solve their question of whether or not Jesus was of the same
substance
as God or man or whatever. This was not a question for Jesus or
Melville's Carpenter
but for people stuck in their heads. The Carpenters do not reflect,
they just offer their services.

If the perspective that Melville is satirizing a canonical Christian
view of Christ is valid, it would be consistent for either Carpenter
to be blind to rationalizations.
It would also be consistent for people who believe they know "the
ungraspable phantom of life" that links us together to use God as a
screwdriver.

After all Ahab was so sure he was willing to kill with his last
breath. At least the Carpenter did not fool himself with his beliefs;
Whatever the Carpenter represents in human nature, his process bridges
the gap between reality and illusion as a leg to stand on, useful and
artificial though it may be.


Hardeman

On Aug 20, 4:19 pm, Phil Walsh <p...@netins.net> wrote: