Masjid Bilal Lean (MBL) Definition
Sadiq
Looks like we all liked the Masjid Bilal Lean Project in the meeting
today, Alhamdulillah. Please let me define the Masjid Bilal Lean (MBL)
in some more detail:
1. We DO NOT buy any other commercial property and incur a new loan
towards it!
2. We focus all time, energy and money at our hands towards the Masjid
Bilal Project, just that it got a bit lean to suffice our financial
needs. Alhamdulillah!
3. Masjid Bilal Lean doesn't mean that we are just cutting down on
some features like kitchen etc, and/or trying to save on construction
costs (although we surely will look into these :) Inshallah!
4. Masjid Bilal Lean means we do the following:
a. Build Masjid Bilal Parking Lot & Playground for FCS on the
proposed Masjid Bilal Site.
b. 2-4 Big Halls to cater for Men's Prayer Area, Women's Prayer
Area, KItchen/Storage, and a Big Auditorium to be used for Jummah/
Taraweeh/Ramadhan/Family Nights/Functions etc. Inshallah!
c. We should try to get this done within 1.5M target. We should try
to raise as much funds as possible, and take the rest from Ijara loans
and target to pay it off in 3-5 years, Inshallah!
d. In the meanwhile, we continue to use the 1143 Sibley (existing
FCS/ISF) for Folsom Crescent School. Alhamdulillah, we were already
able to negotiate a cheaper rent.
e. If Allah wills we may buy the 1143 Sibley St property in 3 years
down the road for much cheaper than the current offering price of
$900K. We may also construct the FCS in the Masjid Bilal site itself
if that is a cheaper/feasible option than buying off the 1143 Sibley
St. Inshallah!
5. The whole idea behind this is two-fold:
a. Take small solid steps and show community the progress that
they can touch & feel within 1 1/2 years Inshallah! That means make
the minimum sufficient building to suffice all ISF activities at one
place including Jummah, Ramadhan, Taraweeh & Eid Prayers.
b. Reduce liability of a big loan on the Folsom Community at one
time.
c. We already have the building plans approved and the
neighborhood permit hearing approval from the City of Folsom after
going through lots of hoops & hurdles, and we can take advantage of
this for the ISF. Any other place we go, we need to start from Square
One and this will incur time, money and no guarantee :(
d. FCS doesn't need to go through hearing in City Council, and can
operate in the current place or any other place suitable. We can buy
or lease the current 1143 Sibley St for for a good deal down the road.
c. Motivate the community to pay off the smaller loan in a shorter
time period, Inshallah!
This is just my gut feel, and Allah knows what is best for the
Community, May Allah help guide us in the right path and give us
wisdom to choose and act on the right path, Inshallah!
Please don't hesitate to provide any feedback you have and we can
discuss this as well over the gmail groups or in person.
Jazakallah Khair,
Sadiq
isf...@yahoo.com
Momin ke irade oonche hothe hai.
Apne iradon ko ooncha karo. Allah ki badad ghaib se aayegi inshallah. Paise se Khabrao muth. Isf never had money upfront to do anything.
Allahu alam.
Riaz
Sent from my iPhone
Sadiq
Alhamdulillah you not just have a Big Heart but also an humble one,
Mashallah!
We all have the highest hopes of making Masjid Bilal, and that's why
we are always coming back to Masjid Bilal as the ideal solution,
Alhamdulillah!
I agree that ISF never had money upfront to do anything,
Alhamdulillah .. but it's different now since this is a big project.
Moreover, it's not the money that I am worried about, it's about
assuming big loans :(
Jazakallah Khair,
Sadiq
On Oct 21, 12:57 am, "isfr...@yahoo.com" <isfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sadiq bhai, Great ideas. Let's explore further IA.
> Momin ke irade oonche hothe hai.
> Apne iradon ko ooncha karo. Allah ki badad ghaib se aayegi inshallah. Paise se Khabrao muth. Isf never had money upfront to do anything.
>
> Allahu alam.
> Riaz
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Chowdhury, Sirajul
AA. May Allah reward everyone for their hard work. I would like to share my personal opinion and Allah knows the best.
1. Last night we had amazing update about the ISF rent($3000) if we sign lease. I recommend that we sign the lease ASAP and continue
our operations. FCS should be able to sustain rent from its tuition.
2. Keep rental($400/months) for Jumma. This should sustain from the Friday donation box.
3. Do NOT borrow a dollar from bank or take personal loans till we pay all of our MB deficits. Keep the MB site as is till we are
ready and mature to have a balance budget for at least one year.
4. Save and raise funds till we have $1M in bank(real money). Challenge community to provide financial assistance rather than bank.
If we cannot achieve that then we will not be able make $3M loan payment. This will provide us good understanding of how much we
can borrow based on the community strength. I am sure community will understand the concept of not borrowing money when institution
is in financial deficit. People understand the world economy as long as we are transparent and open/honest
in our communication to general public. We need to make frequent update of our funds on Friday. People are reasonable when we explain
in public with all honesty. Financial statement should be a public document.
Bottom Line : Keep running as is because renting is cheaper and sustainable then carrying risky financial liability. Let us build
financial maturity and keep our emotion in check. Remember, there was no rush of MB project before UR came in market.
What needs to be focused: How do we make ISF/FSC operations more efficient and transparent. Bring new ideas and new people
to build efficient process and procedure.
Allahu alam.
Riaz
Sent from my iPhone
Asakm ...
Jazakallah Khair,
Sadiq
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Sadiq
would not be $3000, but the additional savings would be $3000 from the
original rent we are paying now, which is still a big deal,
Alhamdulillah!
I have one more suggestion .. how about we find out what the payment
will be for the loan and deduct the current rent (to pay the rent) and
put the difference in a bank for the next 6 months - 1 year to be
applied towards the MB construction. That will give us a stress test,
Inshallah!
Jzkk,
Sadiq
Riaz siddique
I just shared my past experience that I had with ISF/FCS. By the way I did not address my email towards you in perticular , it was just some general feelings that i always remind myself of , ponder and move forward.
Jzkk
Riaz
From: Sadiq <sadiq.m...@gmail.com>
To: isfmasjid <isfm...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 7:55:44 AM
Subject: Re: Masjid Bilal Lean (MBL) Definition
Junaid A
Subhanallah, excellent ideas; we need to aim at eliminating our debt or at least minimize it.
We need to closely analyze what the monthly cost (in the next 5 to 10 years) to the community would be in any of the options we are deliberating on; and go with the least expensive option.
Also, to keep things in perspective; today the unemployment rate is ~10% and if it continues to go bad; besides economic challenges; public sentiments towards Muslims in general will continue to deteriorate.
To counter these challenges we need to think of more outreach programs, etc.
We need to think of using the community resources in activities that have a better ROI.
Bottom-line we need to think of how to minimize the cost to a "building";
And think of putting our resources in creating a great school, staff it with the best teachers and the best equipment;
Setup a public library open to all; have regular outreach programs; inter-faith activities,.. etc
My concern is; if we are not careful of how we allocate the budget between the “Building” and “Activities”; and if the monthly cost to the building is disproportionately beyond our means; the much needed “Activities” may suffer and ISF may continue to offer mediocre services at best.
Just my 2 cents...
Riaz siddique
Just one quick clarification.
MB efforts were going on even before UR. As a matter of fact I was discussing some new developments about MB loan to the brothers very recently. We were trying different strategies to get this masjid built without over burdening the community.The liability should be replacement of the rent or little more than that. I think that is fair.
It will be very difficult to raise funds for MB without showing some action and hence to seek a loan or equivalent. Once we start construction people will come forward. There is no guarantee but it is reasonable to assume that, based on previous track and experience.
But I must say that in the matter of Deen there is a thing called "Barakath" and "unseen" (Ghaibi Madad) help that cannot be comprehended and explained by financial Gurus.
Allah knows best.
Riaz
From: "Chowdhury, Sirajul" <SChow...@caiso.com>
To: "isfm...@googlegroups.com" <isfm...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 8:25:30 AM
Subject: RE: Masjid Bilal Lean (MBL) Definition
Abdul Hadi G.Pasha
I have never seen this much energy and committment and involvement in ISF/FCS so far.
InshaAllah
Let us seize this opportunity to channel this energy towards the Masjid project.
Let us shape it while the iron is still hot.
Let us get the next steps of solidifiying the ideas that are listed on the paper.
Let us work on those big 'IF's
How can we reduce the project cost without too much sacrifice in features i.e. Options -cost - trade offs
How confident are we with the halal loan, when can we get that pre-approval
Some time lines, some team formation.
Let us incorporate all good inputs.
Let us keep rolling :) :)
Salaam & love & duas
Pasha
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:48:44 -0700
From: isf...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Masjid Bilal Lean (MBL) Definition
M Ahmed
Noorr Khann
Asalam-o- Alikum
After I have read all the emails looks like we all are in a same page Alhamudillah to finish the MB project step by step and have Friday, Ramzan and Eid facilities as soon as possible. Great to see our community are together and moving forward to one solution.
Since I was not in the meetings due my work schedule I would like to know before we move on to next step that if community members are satisfied with the information you received during meetings that are as follows.
1) Financial statement of MB. Are you aware how much loan MB have and who loaned MB and how much we owe them individually.
1) How much loan we have for FCS/ISF facilities from our community/outside community members.
Before we start our next step if we are not sure about our loans then all those 2+2 has no meaning. I hope community are aware of everything before we move on to next step.
If community is not aware then ISF should conduct one more meeting to let them know the latest status of our finances and loans.
Also in future this is a ISF responsibility to informed community of any loan we get from anybody which community is responsible to pay them back. ISF should do public meetings like the one we have been doing for UR/MB project to discuss latest and loan situation.
JZK
Noor
|
Faheem Mazhari
Assalamu Alaikum,
Inshallah my thoughts are going to be centered around few things such as the big IFs, different options, loans and ongoing monthly cost and overall burden (both one time and recurring) on the community after a decision has been made on whichever direction we proceed in. Please forgive me for my shortcomings and I know there will be many and please understand we all love each others as brothers and nothing that I say and any of you say will/should Inshallah be construed as personal or demeaning. Our hearts are clear and the fact that we are discussing this with such passion is an indication we all want to do the right thing but we differ on how, where and why.
$1.5 million loan: It appears this loan is a must regardless of which direction we go, UR or MB. I do not believe we should acquire our current Sibley location and rather utilize the lease offer and save money. Buying this may end up becoming a liability with deteriorating commercial property values.
The loan repayment hopefully will be around 50-75% more of what we are currently paying and Inshallah once we have the place, it can be paid off faster with fundraisers. My point is, we were always going to build MB with fundraisers so why would it be any more difficult than it ever had been? Admittedly, it’s a big task but it always was the case.
Recurring cost: It was mentioned yesterday we have consistent revenue of $7k every month that we can rely on. Rest is arbitrary and the total generally doesn’t pass 10K. Evidently from our large community events, we are a 200 plus families community. $7000/200=35. $35????? For crying out loud, this is less than my cheapest utility! The utility we get out of a masjid is unparallel to anything we can think of. Is this something we should address? Is this another problem statement? If we take an average after taxes income of 5K per family, it is not even 0.75%! But let’s leave it at that. What are we getting out of ISF today? Daily Salat, Hifz program, a very well run Islamic School (Which I call a level of success each community or Islamic Center in USA must have. Alhamdulillah we already do), Nazira and all other programs. Shouldn’t we as a community be more committed to something as important as a Masjid? Shouldn’t we have a column called ISF in everyone of ours budget sheet? Inshallah we should try and do much better in this area and that should suffice for our recurring cost. By no means I am undermining any contributors Astaghfirullah. Only Allah knows what situations we all are in and what everyone’s intentions are.
“Do NOT borrow a dollar from bank or take personal loans till we pay all of our MB deficits. Keep the MB site as is till we are
ready and mature to have a balance budget for at least one year.”
Alhamdulillah this is the most sensible option. However, it triggers certain questions;
1) How long do we wait on having our own place?
2) How long do we run around for Juma, Tarawih and other community activities?
3) Our community is such that we can benefit tremendously from a place of our own that will meet our requirements for everything in addition to community events.
4) This is my 10th year in Folsom now. My kids (and most of yours) will be deprived of such a center if it get’s pushed out for another 5 years at the age they need it most. What’s the point? I do not like to wait anymore. UR or MB or MBL, Inshallah let’s get to one of these. I personally prefer MB or MBL as long as the big IFs come out to be possible Inshallah.
“Save and raise funds till we have $1M in bank(real money). Challenge community to provide financial assistance rather than bank. If we cannot achieve that then we will not be able make $3M loan payment”
Another sensible approach Alhamdulillah, ideally. But let’s be realistic. It’s going to be tough with this approach and further frustrate community due to the wait.
Finally, I am all for further discussions and a good solution Inshallah. It is a tough spot to be in but collectively Inshallah we can get out of it. Again, please forgive me for my shortcomings. I am Inshallah for $2.5M MB or MBL as long as it is achievable. I am also for UR if that is the consensus and we all or most of us agree. May Allah guide us with a solution that works for our community. I have enormous respect for those who are concerned about taking on big commitments for the community. I by no means want to undermine that very valid concern.
JazakAllah
Faheem
Noorr Khann
AOA
Few brothers have asked me this question regarding ISF/MB loans after the Isha Salat last week and I suggested them to ask this in the meeting from the ISF Team .
Since there is no response to this email, Alhamdulilah this is settled that community is very well aware of the Financial statement of MB/ISF/FCS loans and I request everybody that there should not be any discussion regarding this issue moving forward.
JZK
Noor
|
|
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Sadiq
Community now moving forward!
On Oct 22, 1:57 am, Noorr Khann <noorrkh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> AOA
> Few brothers have asked me this question regarding ISF/MB loans after the Isha Salat last week and I suggested them to ask this in the meeting from the ISF Team .
>
> Since there is no response to this email, Alhamdulilah this is settled that community is very well aware of the Financial statement of MB/ISF/FCS loans and I request everybody that there should not be any discussion regarding this issue moving forward.
>
> JZK
> Noor
>
> From: Noorr Khann <noorrkh...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: some important points
> To: isfm...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 2:06 PM
>
> Asalam-o- Alikum
>
> After I have read all the emails looks like we all are in a same page Alhamudillah to finish the MB project step by step and have Friday, Ramzan and Eid facilities as soon as possible. Great to see our community are together and moving forward to one solution.
>
> Since I was not in the meetings due my work schedule I would like to know before we move on to next step that if community members are satisfied with the information you received during meetings that are as follows.
>
> 1) Financial statement of MB. Are you aware how much loan MB have and who loaned MB and how much we owe them individually.
>
> 1) How much loan we have for FCS/ISF facilities from our community/outside community members.
>
> Before we start our next step if we are not sure about our loans then all those 2+2 has no meaning. I hope community are aware of everything before we move on to next step.
>
> If community is not aware then ISF should conduct one more meeting to let them know the latest status of our finances and loans.
>
> Also in future this is a ISF responsibility to informed community of any loan we get from anybody which community is responsible to pay them back. ISF should do public meetings like the one we have been doing for UR/MB project to discuss latest and loan situation.
>
> JZK
>
> Noor
>
> From: Riaz siddique <isfr...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Masjid Bilal Lean (MBL) Definition
> To: isfm...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 9:48 AM
>
> Wa AA Siraj Bhai
>
> Just one quick clarification.
>
> MB efforts were going on even before UR. As a matter of fact I was discussing some new developments about MB loan to the brothers very recently. We were trying different strategies to get this masjid built without over burdening the community.The liability should be replacement of the rent or little more than that. I think that is fair.
> It will be very difficult to raise funds for MB without showing some action and hence to seek a loan or equivalent. Once we start construction people will come forward. There is no guarantee but it is reasonable to assume that, based on previous track and experience.
>
> But I must say that in the matter of Deen there is a thing called "Barakath" and "unseen" (Ghaibi Madad) help that cannot be comprehended and explained by financial Gurus.
>
> Allah knows best.
> Riaz
>
Junaid A
Faheem Mazhari
We constantly are referring back to Riaz Bhai’s presentation that he presented in the first meeting when envisioning a lean version of MB. Riaz bhai, please upload that document so Inshallah we can draw good parallels.
JazakAllah
Faheem
Junaid A
From: Faheem Mazhari <fmaz...@gmail.com>
To: isfm...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 9:52:32 AM
Subject: RE: isfmasjid 10/20/10 -- Meeting Minutes fromISFmasjid mtg ??
Ateeq Ahmed
Wa'alaikum assalam,
Here they are; apologies for the delay. There was hardly anything in the form of hard ARs just lots of loose discussions which were inevitable.
Date: 10/20/2010
Agenda:
Did not get to the following items on the agenda:
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Ateeq Ahmed
I wasn't looking at myself as chairperson/timekeeper...I was stepping in only when needed and things were getting out of hand.
But given the scope / stakes / scale of what we were talking about, I don't think any of the questions raised were out of place. I only wish I could have recorded them better.
Going forward, I suggest:
- we have a crisp agenda and have a timekeeper to regulate it
- provide questions in written form ahead of the meeting when we have the time to articulate them, so people can come up with best answers. The other advantage of written q&a is that they will be ready to document as FAQs for one and all to read. Who's going to be providing the answers? We can each chip in with our personal opinion if it is requested
- save the live q&a for follow-ups, questions that can be misunderstood, etc.
My 2 cents,
Ateeq. |
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Mohammed, Atthar H
Yes going forward we need crisp agenda and time keeper. We can collect opens and discuss if time permits else we add to the next agenda. Lets make mtgs more efficient. Due to the scale of task and the urgency, I am afraid we miss valuable opinions so I recommend writing them up before the mtg…this will give time to think through in detail “why you support optionX”?…
Options:
· Why UR?
· Why MBL?
· Why existing property?
I recommend including following in your feedback,
· Does this option answer our problem statement?
· Estimated Cost
· How much down payement needed? Can we raise it thru fund raiser? How easy/difficult for this option? Why?
· What are the Loan options(how confident to get loan?)
o Lariba
o Ijara
o Owner lending
o Lease to own
· Short term benefits
· Long term benefits
· City permits for larger congregation and the school?
· Parking issues, long term or short term? Typically how many parking spots we need for Juma?
· How does it align to our ultimate project Masjid Bilal?
· How long it takes to pay the loan? This is subjective but include your thoughts with reasonable data…..
We can compile all your feedback and post it on the web so community can make educated decision.
I am sure there will be many others…pls include them as well.
Also while exploring these options, lets define the decision making process and the timeline.
Jazakallahkhairun
-atthar
ArifM
We should have the moderate give may be 1-2 minutes to each of the participants to listen to their thoughts.
Regards,
Arif
From: "Mohammed, Atthar H" <atthar.h...@intel.com>
To: "isfm...@googlegroups.com" <isfm...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, October 24, 2010 11:59:46 AM
M Ahmed
Ateeq Ahmed
From: M Ahmed <ahmedm...@gmail.com>
To: isfm...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 11:37:12 AM
Fareed Siddiqui
From: Ateeq Ahmed <ateeqh...@yahoo.com>
To: isfm...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 12:23:06 PM
Ateeq Ahmed
From: Fareed Siddiqui <fareed....@sbcglobal.net>
To: isfm...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 1:14:22 PM
Z Khan
| Dear Ateeq: Very well put. You certainly have the gift of eloquence and grace to respond in a very thoughtful manner. Zia --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Ateeq Ahmed <ateeqh...@yahoo.com> wrote: |
|
Fareed Siddiqui
Subject: [isfmasjid:120] Re: isfmasjid 10/20/10 -- Meeting Minutes fromISFmasjid mtg ??