Wither our democracy?

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Brian Howell

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Feb 6, 2018, 6:06:01 PM2/6/18
to Ipse Dixit
In September 2016, shortly before the election, Kate and I saw a play at Berkeley Rep: It Can't Happen Here. The play is a dramatization of a novel by Sinclair Lewis. It depicts the delegitimization of American democracy by a charismatic, populist politician, and its decent into fascist authoritarianism. Kate and I were both upset by the experience, because we understood that American democracy—and all democracies—depend upon the subscription of its constituents—and especially its leaders—to its ideals and institutions; something which neither our current chief executive nor the play's president, abides, and which Trump at the time—still the Republican presidential nominee—didn't appear even then to understand. 

Trump has repeatedly denounced our courts, the FBI, the press, and numerous members of Congress. And now he's invoked the word "treason" to describe the lack of applause by Democrats during his SOTU address on Tuesday: https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-cracks-the-seal-on-talk-of-treason?ref=home.

President Donald Trump on Monday suggested Democrats were “un-American” and “treasonous” for not reacting positively to his State of the Union address. During a Monday speech in Ohio, the president blasted the opposing party’s lawmakers for not applauding him even when he referenced “positive news.” He said: “They were like death. And un-American. Somebody said ‘treasonous.’ I mean, yeah, I guess, why not? Can we call that treason? Why not?”

During today's press gaggle, Sarah Huckabee-Sanders promulgated the charge, saying that [it is] "un-American not to be excited about the fact that more people in this country have jobs” and higher wages now.

In a post today, The Atlantic made a key observation of our germaphobic, xenophobic, paranoid present;

Trump’s attacks on both Democrats and Strzok [an FBI operative who wrote texts—not tweets—that are critical of trump] are the latest manifestation of the president’s Sun King-esque conflation of himself with the government. This leads Trump to believe all American successes are reducible to him, all criticism of the government is a personal attack on him, and, most dangerously in this case, that any personal attack on him is therefore an attack on the United States.

Notwithstanding the walk-back, by White House spokesman Hogan Gidley, who said the statement was "tongue-in-cheek," the issue is that the concept and impact of what constitutes treason is undermined through such casual ascription, like the overuse of "Nazi" and "Nazism." 

With the increasing normalization of the alt-right, aggressive attacks on abortion and abortion providers, Trump's attempts to delegitimize [members of] the Justice Department, the apparent collusion of members of key members of Congress, and the cronyism and greed of members of Trump's administration, I have to ask: can it happen here?

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jack saunders

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Feb 6, 2018, 11:55:45 PM2/6/18
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
Hugely important observation, Brian.  We will ALL be asked to account for what we were doing during this salient phase in the grand old republic’s evolution.  I recommend we earmark a near future ipsedixit dinner NOT as a catch-up gabfest, but rather as a patriot meeting on what, precisely, we might do to assert Jeffersonian political morality against the Freedom Caucus call for maximum business latitude.  

Let us demand straight answers of ourselves:  Are we for open borders, or closed borders?

  Gentlemen, my Baby Boom brothers, this is not an easy choice.  When you sit at the top of civilized wealth and knowledge, it is an awesome, belly-floating leap to welcome everybody - 5 billion poverty-stricken people.  

Is that smart?  Think about it.  Membership (citizenship) is worth a lot on the open market.  Is it OK to give it away, for the purpose of boosting diversity?  Does our country really need lots more poor people?  Please tell me your views.  

Brian, can we have a dinner on this theme?  Or is it too controversial?
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Scott Hotes

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Feb 7, 2018, 11:46:28 AM2/7/18
to jack saunders, Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
Sounds like a good idea, Jack.  Count me in.

Scott

Larry Rosenthal

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Feb 7, 2018, 1:08:57 PM2/7/18
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me too for dinner

(interesting wither/whither bait & switch here in the su: Brian ... I assume it was intended)

let's not conflate the democracy with the presidency

that someone's unhappy with an election's outcome is a sign of democratic function, not failure

and unless I was hallucinating throughout 2017, the democracy has demonstrated its resilience nearly continuously since this nasty chapter got underway

the Trump years are testing the system's tolerances, indeed - and the engineering is acquitting itself nicely. (but saying so makes me a Trump apologist in many circles.)

the Administration will be subject to the people's judgment in 2018 - what more can you ask? personally I'm unafraid of Russian hackers - have you seen county elections officials at work? steady as she goes.

one can catalog any number of events, glimpses, viral tweets, reports, compiled however one might, as evidence of some claim ("Germany in the 30's has been unleashed!")

organs like HuffP, the NYTimes and so very many others provide a reliable, daily torrent, and the eyeballs thirsting for that flow participate in a self-fulfilling prophecy

but treating the selected list as probative of any particular conjecture risks adopting Michael Moore's style of documentary reasoning:

1) show Image A. 2) juxtapose Image B. --> therefore, A causes B.

I'm hardly asleep at the switch. but I'm not lying awake at night either.

the president can attack the media and the courts all he likes. is it panglossian of me to suggest those lifeblood institutions will no doubt outlive us all?

LR

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Brian Howell

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Feb 7, 2018, 2:21:43 PM2/7/18
to Ipse Dixit
Yes, let's have a dinner on this subject—providing you promise to show up, Jack.

How about next Wednesday, the 14th, 6PM at Au Coq? My next availability is Thursday, March 3rd (same time, same location).

I agree with Larry, we should not conflate the presidency with democracy. However, the actions of the Executive Branch impact our citizens directly more than either of the other two branches. And how it affects us substantially shapes our perceptions of (the legitimacy and value of) our democracy: 


Also, let's remember, that I'm not speaking only of Trump or the Executive Branch. The Legislative Branch is playing along: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/02/07/the-fatal-flaw-of-the-nunes-memo-conspiracy-theories-in-one-exchange/?utm_term=.65366fd81061

P.S. Thanks for the correction, Larry.


vince koloski

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Feb 12, 2018, 7:30:26 PM2/12/18
to Ipse Dixit, Brian Howell
Would love to make it for dinner on the 14th (the discussions will be excellent), however as it is Valentine's Day and that date is meaningful to my wife, I must beg off.

Vince

Vince Koloski 415-822-8194


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Brian Howell

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Feb 12, 2018, 9:46:15 PM2/12/18
to vince koloski, Ipse Dixit
Um, yeah. I kind of overlooked that. 

Let's shoot for March 3rd, all else the same.

Sorry.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:30 PM, vince koloski <vkol...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Would love to make it for dinner on the 14th (the discussions will be excellent), however as it is Valentine's Day and that date is meaningful to my wife, I must beg off.

Vince

Vince Koloski 415-822-8194
On Wednesday, February 7, 2018, 11:21:44 AM PST, Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com> wrote:


Yes, let's have a dinner on this subject—providing you promise to show up, Jack.

How about next Wednesday, the 14th, 6PM at Au Coq? My next availability is Thursday, March 3rd (same time, same location).

I agree with Larry, we should not conflate the presidency with democracy. However, the actions of the Executive Branch impact our citizens directly more than either of the other two branches. And how it affects us substantially shapes our perceptions of (the legitimacy and value of) our democracy: 


Also, let's remember, that I'm not speaking only of Trump or the Executive Branch. The Legislative Branch is playing along: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/02/07/the-fatal-flaw-of-the-nunes-memo-conspiracy-theories-in-one-exchange/?utm_term=.65366fd81061

P.S. Thanks for the correction, Larry.


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jack saunders

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Feb 13, 2018, 3:47:08 PM2/13/18
to vince koloski, Ipse Dixit, Brian Howell
I’m bringing my wife, noting it’s Valentines.  What could be more romantic than a Wither Democracy event by Ipsedixit?  I’m sure younger members will think of something at once, but it is different, and Dori attached considerable value to that.
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