DISCUSS: Mossberg's "Flash is Coming" rumor.
BikingBill
"At launch, the iPhone version of the Safari browser is missing some
plug-ins needed for playing common types of Web videos. The most
important of these is the plug-in for Adobe's Flash technology. Apple
says it plans to add that plug-in through an early software update,
which I am guessing will occur within the next couple of months."
Is this really going to happen?
Here's the argument against this:
1. Developer docs explicitly warn against using Flash.
2. One theory says that Apple will base apps for the iPhone on its new
Dashcode development tool (ala Widgets), as there is so much
similarity to Widgets and the iPhone apps. Since Widgets are based on
JS, CSS and HTML, that would leverage the frameworks used to support
Safari.
3. Memory: The Flash plugin is pretty large in size (they could use
Flash Lite I suppose) but the apps are large too.
4. YouTube: Why go through all that trouble and then add Flash
support.
FYI: The rumor that there was Flash in the QT layer turned out to be
force. I feel bad for the companies that built iPhone products with
that assumption.
Your opinions?
D. Rich
Of course, if Flash is implemented, a lot of our work will be thrown
aside, if it can be done faster in Flash.
I don't think Mossberg knows anything, and is just trying to get some
attention.
Apple wouldn't have told him anything because they know he would
publish it.
D. Rich
Sal DiStefano
Kevin Darling
devices. Flash comes closest right now, with Opera widgets coming up
fast. Alas, no Opera for iPhone.
But Flash is pretty slow on handhelds, even though FlashLite is used
as the UI for some handsets. And figuring out what to do with mouse
events could be interesting.
I think the idea of basing apps off Dashcode makes more sense from an
Apple perspective.
Our biggest dilemna is integration. Hopefully Apple will allow other
widgets and bookmarks on the home screen. For that matter, I'd love
to be able to replace / enhance the home screen like you can with the
Windows Mobile Today screen.
Kai Cherry
and the knowledge gained so far about what iPhone apps actually *are*
(for those not keeping up, it appears that iPhone apps are essentialy
dashboard widgets; the entire ui is composed of PNG images) and the
way apple reacted to the effort to get windows running on intel macs
(by realeasing Boot Camp) my thinking is that they are at this point
more likely to release a sanctioned sdk before a significant flash
plugin. They could have had at least flash 7 support out of the gate
had they really cared about flash without adobe licensing...
Mike Moore
BikingBill
> Of course, if Flash is implemented, a lot of our work will be thrown
> aside, if it can be done faster in Flash.
This is a critical point. If we're building multiplayer games for
iPhone using the current SDK, that effort would be wasted if Flash was
coming. Uncertainty about Flash would gave most developers pause
about undertaking ambitious development efforts.
I also agree with your comment:
>Apple wouldn't have told him (Mossberg) anything because they know he would
>publish it.
Pretty much makes it a non-event. Unless Apple leaked this as a trial
ballon.
Bill
Randy Walker
Maybe it was to work on the pdf functionality that’s alread in it? We don’t know if the NDA was for flash work or not.
-=Randy
Kevin Darling
> I haven't been following any hacking efforts on the iPhone. Where can we
> find more information about how the built-in widgets work?
Back up to the main page here:
http://groups.google.com/group/iphonewebdev
And then look at the Links and Tips page I put under Pages at the
bottom. The first link includes access to all the iPhone images.
Kev
Scott Cederberg
Christopher Allen
> My understanding was that this was just a generic NDA that Adobe likes to
> have all visitors sign.
Adobe has forgiven us this requirement, so NDA required for iPhoneDevCamp.
-- Christopher Allen
Dave Metzener
now or has just completed.
Mark my words, Flash will be available for the iPhone. Not the Flash
we all know and love(?), but a version that is highly optimized for
the iPhone so that it will work as fast as possible.
Also, I guarantee that widgets will be available for the phone soon. I
figure that Apple wants to make sure the phone has a spectacular
launch with no problems what so ever. Once the launch is complete, say
by the time Leopard is released, Apple will open up the phone so that
widget developers can make widgets for it.
All you have to do is look at Stocks and Weather to see that they are
coming.
Making websites that will work well with the iPhone is no loss of time
or effort though. I also ;) guarantee that the iPhone will take over
the cell phone industry just like the iPod did for the portable MP3
player industry.
I mean really, now that the iPhone is out, what smart phone would you
rather use to surf the web while waiting for a flight? It's a no
brainer for me.
Dean Hamack
> I mean really, now that the iPhone is out, what smart phone would you
> rather use to surf the web while waiting for a flight? It's a no
> brainer for me.
Personally, I'd rather use one with a real keyboard that doesn't obscure 60%
of the screen area (like my MDA). Next to forcing people to use AT&T, I
think that is the iphone's biggest flaw. I would much rather have a
sliding/folding keyboard and sacrifice a little bit in the area of size.
Michael Latta
Kai Cherry
On Jul 7, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Dave Metzener <vesp...@gmail.com>
>
> All you have to do is look at Stocks and Weather to see that they are
> coming.
Well you see, the problem with this assertion is that you are making
an assumption based on an incorrect observation; the fact of the
matter is that stocks and weather on the phone are not dashboard
widgets...they are in fact, iPhone applications.
The bigger story here tho is the fact that all iPhone applications are
essentially 'uber widgets' and not what most people assume to be mac
os x like cocoa apps.
As the iphone doesn't run mac os x, it doesn't support cocoa and
appkit but instead runs what are enhanced widgets in .app bundles.
Kai Cherry
done from my iPhone, via that unusable virtual keyboard using two
thumb typing and quote honestly its a lot faster and more accurate
with less typos than I ever had using my blackjack.
The problem isn't with 'touchscreens' per se...like everything else,
its been on this case a problem with touchscreens *done wrong* ;)
On Jul 7, 2007, at 1:08 PM, Dean Hamack <bushido...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Dean Hamack
> I disagree Dean. Every single message I've posted to this list I've
> done from my iPhone, via that unusable virtual keyboard using two
> thumb typing and quote honestly its a lot faster and more accurate
> with less typos than I ever had using my blackjack.
I have not gotten my hands on an actual iphone yet, so I'm just going off of
what friends who have them have told me. And their assertion has been
exactly what I predicted it would be:
1. the buttons are too small for people with large hands
2. the keypad obscures too much of the screen
3. there is no tactile feedback from pressing virtual buttons vs. real
buttons
And I don't know if you've ever used a device like the MDA, 8525, etc.
before, but there is a BIG difference between them and something like a
BlackJack. I can crank out text with no errors fast on mine. I love the form
factor of my MDA, I just hate the OS.
BikingBill
or simply open access to the dashboard widgets already being used.
The thing for us, as (mainly) game developers, is we have long term
projects already underway (multi-player causal games), so knowing the
direction Apple is heading is critical to us as a business.
Frankly we are pleasantly surprised at the large coverage our first
game received in the media and the web (iWhack) so we're not waiting
for anything (picking Balmer as a subject, good choice). Multiple
game projects are in production. We have a pretty sharp Flash team as
well.
Just don't let them put J2ME on this wonderful phone. ANYTHING but
that.
Funny thing is, I was testing the Blackjack game yesterday on Edge
(ATT) and the load time and playing speed was on a par with our J2ME
app on a RAZR phone. That is, the already installed J2ME app took as
long to get started as navigating to the page for the iPhone Blackjack
game.
I would love to do apps as nice as the Weather and Maps apps.
Whatever they are using for that (dashboard widgets) I want to use it
for the casual games we have in the works.
William Volk
CEO, MyNuMo
BikingBill
because product development 'owns' it, but I am getting very adapted
to typing on it.
My fingers are as thick as hot dogs (XXL size cycling gloves) and as I
type this on my PowerBook G4 I still hit double keys on occasion. On
the iPhone the screen seems to be good at picking where I am hitting.
Development likes me to test the apps in any case, to make sure the
buttons are large enough.
On the Sidekick I have to work to get the right buttons pressed.
Multi-tapping on my own phone, Nokia 6600, is an 'art' for me.
The iPhone is one of these interesting events in that the "feature
list" doesn't do it justice. The look and feel are simply remarkable
and I believe it will take a substantial part of the 'smartphone'
market away from Blackberry and Treo. It's like comparing two cars
with similar acceleration and skid-pad G-force capability. The
numbers are insufficient to form a clear opinion. You must simply
drive it.
Bill
On Jul 7, 10:36 am, Kai Cherry <kai.che...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I disagree Dean. Every single message I've posted to this list I've
> done from my iPhone, via that unusable virtual keyboard using two
> thumb typing and quote honestly its a lot faster and more accurate
> with less typos than I ever had using my blackjack.
>
> The problem isn't with 'touchscreens' per se...like everything else,
> its been on this case a problem with touchscreens *done wrong* ;)
>
> On Jul 7, 2007, at 1:08 PM, Dean Hamack <bushidodesi...@gmail.com>
Kai Cherry
always a little difficult. The only thing I can say is if you think
you are going to walk up to an iPhone and start hitting the letters
you aim at every time you touch the screen its not going to work out
for you... Until the second you just essentially 'give up and just type'
Its really just that simple, and every person that I've let try my
phone that has a traditional smartphone marvels at how fast I type and
poorly they do until they stop looking at the words they are typing
and instead look at the buttons.
Basically what they do is as soon as they see an error they freak out
and stop typing and start correcting.
The idea is to just not give a damn, to essentially 'use the force'
and let go. This is really really hard to do for the control freak
crackberry types heheh.
But yeah man, you just have to type, you have to, and I know it sounds
like marketing bs, but you have to learn to trust the software to do
the job and you will be banging out long messages like this one really
fast with a very high level of accuracy.
I had to make 5 corrections to all of the above.
On Jul 7, 2007, at 1:52 PM, Dean Hamack <bushido...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
Kalle Alm
> Kai is right. I only get a few hours on the iPhone now and then
> because product development 'owns' it, but I am getting very adapted
> to typing on it.
I've been meaning to say this for a while as well. For *some* reason,
typing on the iPhone took me a day to adapt. Now I rarely typo, and I
type fairly fast for only using one finger while holding the device in
the other hand. I can only imagine what it'd be like to start using the
other 4 fingers on my right hand, or hey, even sneak in a few taps with
my right! But seriously, the keyboard feels very small when you use it
for the first time, but the thing has a way of figuring out which key
you want. Magic! :)
-Kalle.
BikingBill
iPhone games and proceeded to show me his new iPhone. He was able to
type with multiple fingers very rapidly. Holding the phone in his
left hand and using the right.
One observation, he didn't even realize that the iPhone had second-
party apps and games. I hope Apple spreads the word about web apps to
the users in future ads.
Bill
Ankur Jain
I am working on an app to locate night clubs for any given zip code in the
US.
Besides finding location (which existing Google maps app can do), my goal is
to find ratings and reviews as well so that I can go to the best club and
don't waste time in club/bar hopping! I am also thinking of including photos
of the night club.
Please check out http://www.ankjain.com/iphone/
This is just version 0.1 and there are few known bugs like slow speed and
'back button' problem which I am working on currently. I am also going to
incorporate templates from Joe Hewitt so that all of us can maintain a
uniform look and feel for all iPhone apps.
Comments and feedback are more than welcome!!
Regards,
Ankur
Ps: Btw, does anyone know a solution to solve 'back button' problem while
making Ajax calls?
Schipul, Edward G.
Ankur - re Night Club Locator - perhaps collaborate with the folks at StartupCamp.com who are working on an application called "VoSnap" this weekend in Boulder. From an email on VoSnap:
*VoSnap is the instant cross platform social collaboration tool that
facilitates group decision making quickly and easily. Get consent from your
group in minutes on anything from what time the planning meeting should
happen, to the best place in town to get sushi. VoSnap lets you ask the
question and get the answer instantly, from whomever you chose using your
phone, the web or email. *
*VoSnap leverages the power of community to suggest possibilities for your
group decisions as well. Want to meet for coffee, VoSnap will provide
optional suggestions based on your region and preferences.*
*VoSnap was created in 3 days in the hyper-creative, hyper-productive
pressure cooker of StartUp Weekend. A group of 70+ high-performance
developers, coders, designers, lawyers, and web entrepreneurs gathered above
a bike shop in Boulder, Co for a weekend with the express intent of
launching a fully functioning startup company by sunrise on Monday.*
*Checkout our progress at: http://startupweekend.com/
*
Dean Hamack
coming up. It's basically "just the facts" one would need to access while
travelling. I'm planning on adding user agent detection to the main site,
and redirecting mobile users to this one.
Still need to add a different stylesheet for standard browsers. I also need
to figure out how to expand and collapse the sections (something I haven't
done before):
http://www.bushidodesigns.net/iphone/demo/
Questions for those in posession of actual iphones:
1. How does the relative font sizing look? Too small?
2. How is the letter spacing? On iphoney, the letters looked compressed.
3. Does the Google map link work?
In my opinion, if you use good css, you shouldn't really need to detect
whether the screen is in portrait or landscape mode.
adam.s...@gmail.com
zoom in to make the text readable.
2. Letter spacing seems fine.
3. Google map isn't properly grabbed by the iphone maps app.
Dean Hamack
> 1. Font size is okay, but the columns are too big so it's not easy to
> zoom in to make the text readable.
OK, I bumped the font size up 10%. Not sure what you mean by "columns are
too wide" though.
> 3. Google map isn't properly grabbed by the iphone maps app.
Hmm. The dev site says you can make a map link like this:
<a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cupertino">Cupertino</a>
But it doesn't say how to create one based on a specific address. Any ideas?
Also: looks like the browser doesn't support floating very well. I added the
iphone logo someone posted in the footer. On my desktop Safari, the logo
floats all the way to the right, and is even with the top of the text. In
iphoney, it sits below the text. Looks like the only way to accomplish
something like that is with a background image.
Does anyone know if the iphone resizes background images in addition to
those hardcoded onto the page?
adam.s...@gmail.com
On Jul 7, 1:36 pm, Dean Hamack <bushidodesi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/7/07 1:17 PM, "adam.stol...@gmail.com" <adam.stol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 1. Font size is okay, but the columns are too big so it's not easy to
> > zoom in to make the text readable.
>
> OK, I bumped the font size up 10%. Not sure what you mean by "columns are
> too wide" though.
The iphone, when you double-tap on an area, it resizes that area to
fill the screen (think of the nytimes demo on the keynote, each "box"
of text he doubletapped on filled the screen)
The text on your page is wrapped to about half the width of what the
black bar that says "Schedule" ends up being.
>
> > 3. Google map isn't properly grabbed by the iphone maps app.
>
> Hmm. The dev site says you can make a map link like this:
>
> <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cupertino">Cupertino</a>
>
> But it doesn't say how to create one based on a specific address. Any ideas?
I'm not sure what the error is on that front.
>
> Also: looks like the browser doesn't support floating very well. I added the
> iphone logo someone posted in the footer. On my desktop Safari, the logo
> floats all the way to the right, and is even with the top of the text. In
> iphoney, it sits below the text. Looks like the only way to accomplish
> something like that is with a background image.
>
> Does anyone know if the iphone resizes background images in addition to
> those hardcoded onto the page?
On my iPhone it sits properly in the corner, aligned as on your
desktop safari.
Dean Hamack
> The iphone, when you double-tap on an area, it resizes that area to
> fill the screen (think of the nytimes demo on the keynote, each "box"
> of text he doubletapped on filled the screen)
>
> The text on your page is wrapped to about half the width of what the
> black bar that says "Schedule" ends up being.
So if I make the text areas below the black bars narrower (like 75% instead
of 100%), that should solve that problem.
I guess it's hard to visualize without the actual device in hand.
> On my iPhone it sits properly in the corner, aligned as on your
> desktop safari.
Interesting. So I guess iphoney *doesn't* render the same as the actual
device.
Thanks for your help.
Farooqui N.K.
Thomas Han
In case you don't have an iPhone (like a lot of us), there are probably lots of emulators out there, but this is the one I've been using to see how sites would look like on iPhone, try it out
iPhoney
http://www.marketcircle.com/iphoney/