A three simple questions/observations

[TroubleMaker]

1) As a prelude, there is prophecy - my favorite prophecy is the papal
prophecy -
(love the Catholics - they have provided many insights)
- please google it. It is hundreds of years old and is still
unfolding.
It is a list of Popes - and the next pope is going to be the last.
Presumably, because Christ is returning.

The problem with prophecy is that - since it exists - do we have free
will?
Is free will something we'd like to believe in - as opposed to does it
really exist!

As we roll along in life, making decisions - some times because the
choices appear obvious -
some times because the choices are few - some times because God
hardens our hearts -

This question is not be answerable because our worldview - is just
that, a worldview.
We need God's view to answer this question properly.

And since what we are going to do is known - or fixed -
can we (or should we) be accountable for the sins we commit?
These are sins - which we are destined to commit - I will return to
this issue.

2) All relationships are built on communications.
We all pray a lot. So the messages are clearly going one way.
But the response from God - are seldom - quiet - or gentle nudges.
So if we are a sinful lot, then the onus is on God.
HE is not talking to us much.

I have many friends who receive audible messages from God -
so I know that God does speak - but there are a couple of rubs.
a) Those that hear Him, are often paralyzed - waiting to hear from HIM
again.
So, if you are like me - do not consider yourself disadvantaged.
There is freedom in not hearing.

b) We are a sinful lot - so I am told.
If you have had children - and they go astray - don't you correct
them?
So, why doesn't God talk to more of us?
God chooses us, not we choose God. (See a) above)
So, He chooses us, then should we be held accountable for our sins?
We would be a lot better people if more of us heard from Him.
Humans are not stupid - we learn quickly.
If bad behavior is punished (or good rewarded), we would all be better
people.
Something I learned from someone close to me, be consistent!
God is a bad parent! - Pray for me, Brothers and Sisters - may God
have mercy on me.

3) What is God like? I am like a 4 year old - I hear things and I
question them.
I do not accept anything unless I see evidence - that it is true.
God wired me that way - it is not that I am faithless - I believe in
God.

We have praise songs which grate me.

God is constant (unchanging)- for example. This is very likely a true
statement (untestable).
But our view of Him changes with time. - Just read the new and old
testament.
I am sure that neither one is the complete story.

God is MERCIFUL. Is this something we want to believe or is it true?
If it is true, then why are we constantly asking God to have mercy on
us?
Something is wrong.

We say that God is omni-present. Then why are we asking God to be with
us?
The Holy Spirit is not always with us. We know the Holy Spirit comes
and goes - as documented in Acts -
and as we have experienced.

We say that God is just. Again, is that something we want to believe
- or is there evidence that He is just?
Our worldview is limited - by our experience - and our words.
For example, JUST. We do not all agree on some situation on what is
just (definition).
So, how can we say God is JUST when we can not agree on what just
means.
We often defer that to God - in His own way (or time) that somehow
Justice will prevail.

---
I have more - but three points is enough to choke on for a while.

With Agape Love

Your TroubleMaker (or Troubled?) Brother in Christ.
Hopefully, not one who is destined to Hell.
But one who longs to be with Him.

[Kirk]

Greetings there, TroubleMaker (I know your real identity - willing to share with others?)

I think between you and Katrina we have managed to put most of the questions of the ages on the table.  ;-)

Here is my off-the-cuff thought on the matter(s).  Curious to read what others have to say...

As to free will, I would say that if you can answer this one, there is a Nobel in it for you.  That said, I think prophesy isn't the main problem on this front.  As we mentioned on Sunday, from the biblical perspective, prophesy isn't mainly about announcing what will inevitably happen, it is God's word of direct address (usually to his people).  It is a call to a response, not a declaration of pre-ordained events.  (Which is not to say there isn't some foretelling of the future in the prophets, but this is usually offered as a means of confirming the authenticity of the prophet, not as the main point of the message.) 

Thus the fact that there is prophesy is not inherently in conflict with the idea of free will.  That God declares that some things will happen does not mean that God prevents us from choosing a great many things (or so it seems to me).

As for God speaking, I'm inclined to go with St. Ignatius on this one and suggest that God does a good bit more "talking" than we often give him credit for.  A chief difficulty is that there are many voices speaking simultaneously (our wants, our fears, our culture, our parents, our children...).  Thus the real work is learning better how to hear (how to parse out the various voices and discern which is God and which is not).  And the lectio exercises that Mark has been leading us in on Sundays are one attempt at that - clearing our mind, opening ourselves to the word of God prayerfully and creating space for God to speak...or not...)

I also tend to think that a good bit of our sense of divine silence stems from our listening for the wrong thing.  I spent much of my early Xn life wanting God to give direction:  do this, don't do that; this is what I approve of, this is what I forbid...  I think there is some of that.  But much of that has already been said in the scriptures. And, frankly, I don't think God's main concern is good/bad, right/wrong, but more relational connection.  I think God is often try to draw us near - because we are loved and because when we know we are loved we are far more loving to others - but we are waiting for the word of affirmation or rebuke and we end up feeling like God is saying nothing.

As for bad lyrics in Christian music, you have my full support!!!!  ;-)  We sing far more heresy than we generally preach.

Trouble is that most good theologians are bad musicians and vice versa!  Makes you appreciate the few truly great hymns, choruses and plainsongs that exist.

There's my initial $.02.  Others????

[Kirk]

PS...Titling a post such as the above as "Three Simple Questions/Observations" is FALSE ADVERTISING!  ;-)

[Katrina Sells]

Ah, Free will. I wrestle with that as well. Not so much on the
prophesy front (although the idea that prophesy really wasn't fortune-
telling in Biblical times helps with that.) I've always wondered
about the verses that talk about God knowing in advance the good works
we're supposed to do ( Eph 2:10). Or that God chooses certain people
for eternal life (Acts 13:48). Does that mean we don't have a choice
in the matter? Or, do we have the choice, and God just knew all along
that we'd choose it? It's when I start thinking about this, the Excel
program in my brain throws out a "circular reference" error!

I agree about the whole communication with God feeling like it's one-
sided. Although, I have to admit that there are times I'm so busy
asking that I forget to listen for the answer. I think we live in
such an "immediate age" that we expect immediate results or answers.
Or we've moved on so quickly to the next thing that we miss an actual
answer of the prior thing because we aren't thinking about it
anymore. I can't count how many times that I didn't notice an answer
to prayer until I looked back on it and realized it was an answer.
Especially if it wasn't the answer I wanted.

I think there may be more "correction" from God out there than we
think. We now live in a time that has an answer, drug or self-help
book for everything and it's easy to talk ourselves out of it being
God trying to get our attention. Just a thought.

Those are my musings for the moment. Hopefully they're worth 2
cents! :o)

kes