RE: [TALLOW TREE] Side issue--concentrating solar power and strategies for renewable energy
James H. Dontje
other. Concentrating solar power (CSP) plants are operating now in the
American SW. They are from the 80s and have proven to provide
cost-effective peaking power. Ground was just broken on a new CSP plant
for the first time in a long while. Usually they use linear parabolic
reflectors heating oil to high temps. Heat goes from the oil to heat
exchangers that make steam to turn turbines.
I think the next generation is modular, using an array of mirrors
focusing on the receiver of a Stirling cycle engine. A power plant
consist of many of these mirror-engine combinations.
To see how these and biofuels fit into a comprehensive plan to reduce
global warming potential, visit the American Solar Energy Society's
report on the subject: http://www.ases.org/climatechange/
Jim Dontje
-----Original Message-----
From: iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bob Orskov
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 11:46 AM
To: Chinese Tallow Tree
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Dealing with polymerization tendency
I like the philosophy mentioned that we have plenty of energy in the
sun to provide for energy we need it is a question of finding the
cheapest and most sustainable option . Gassification of wasted
cellulosic biomass is certainly one. When I am in a hot dessert there is
so much wasted sunenergy which if captured would compete with nothing.
Would it ever be an option to set up kind of sunpowerstations in hot
desserts to capture energy for electricity. sorry for such stupid
question
Bob Orskov
Cascone, Ronald
many-sided issues and unintended consequences galore.
I think a major issue with solar and wind (also wave) energy is that
they are extremely variable (from diurnally, to seasonally, to
randomly), so that storing the energy becomes the big issue.
The desert thermal solar facilities are only peaking generators if we
are lucky and the peak occurs during a sunny day, as it does sometimes,
but not always.
As Gunnar Walmet of NYSERDA in New York said, "The reason we are
interested in hydrogen and fuel cells is that so far, we have failed at
batteries". Or, as another observation, for every kW of solar or wind
power we bring on, we need to build a kW of conventional capacity for
when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow, but we still want
electricity - no excuses. (Often, these conditions are linked - think of
a hot, sunless, windless, humid day - or night - in the tropics).
Biomass is a solar energy storage device (or, the liquid or solid fuels
for power generation that can made from it, including FT liquids,
biomethanol, and ammonia - which is, again, the best storage strategy
for hydrogen for fuel cells). Solar vehicles are fun, but will never be
practical without a breakthrough in battery technology.
Ron
Bob Orskov
sun is everyday day and very hot I cannot help to feel that if part of
it could be covered by cheap solar panels then it would be an option not
competing with food ar feed and certainly better that producing ethanol
from corn being transported from mitwest to texas for fermentation. I
still like to see the energy balance on the one side energy used in
fertilizer,cultivation sewing, herbicides ,harvesting, thrashing,
transport to texas compared with the ethanol produced.
Do we need batteries if the solar energy could be fed to the el grid.
I agree that wind is not so predictable but sun in the dessert is there
every day. bob
Prof E R Orskov
IFRU
Macaulay Institute
Craigiebuckler
Aberdeen AB15 8QH
Tel 44 (0)1224 498243
Fax 44 (0)1224 243209
Email b.or...@macaulay.ac.uk
bobo...@eudoramail.com
bobo...@hotmail.com
http://www.macaulay.ac.uk/IFRU
>>> "James H. Dontje" <James_...@berea.edu> 02/28/07 10:08 PM >>>
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Cascone, Ronald
simply does not provide power for all the times that we need it -
certainly not for half the day. The choice is either to tolerate
brown-outs, find a way to store the solar generated electricity, or
build conventional, non-solar generation facilities to match every kW of
solar generation installed. Again, the latter is exactly what the Luz
solar thermal projects do, back up the solar system with a natural
gas-fueled system. I am not saying that energy is not saved on the
average, I am just pointed out the tremendous cost of a redundant
system.
Incidentally, there are few people living in deserts, and so many people
living in the hot, humid tropics, where the sun often does not shine.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bob Orskov
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 6:11 PM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Side issue--concentrating solar power and
strategies for renewable energy