Re: Hydrogen

[CA...@aol.com]

In a message dated 2/28/2007 7:24:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, paul.o...@esrint.com writes:

What would you say about the possibility of gasifying biomass, producing hydrogen, and converting that hydrogen into ammonia? With ammonia, a lot can happen.

Paul Olivier 

Paul I have gasified animal manure and reduced ammonia to hydrogen.  I wonder what it would take to go the other way.

 

But with fuel cells, etc, it may be good to crack the ammonia and produce hydrogen from manure.

 

Neal

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[Cascone, Ronald]

FYI – I am championing the idea of ammonia as the best, most efficient, entirely commercialized, widely distributed (as a fertilizer, industrial refrigerant, SCR catalyst, industrial chemical, etc.) hydrogen carrier we know of. The cracking technology is common is the (even shop-scale) metal-working industry.  Not as sexy as buckytubes and expensive metal hydrides, but it is here today, safe, entirely practical and cheap.

 

Ron   

 

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[Paul Olivier]

Ron,
 
Then why not use Tallow tree pruning biomass (not the seed) to make ammonia?
 
Thanks.
Paul

Paul Olivier 

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Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Hydrogen

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:32:04 -0500
From: rcas...@nexant.com
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com

[Lion, Sonoma Co., Cal., USA]

The Haber-Bosch process takes natural gas (because they buy so much
they get a big discount) reforms it to hydrogen and CO2, then puts it
under heat and pressure to force it to bond with nitrogen from the
air. About 45% of the world hydrogen is consumed in this manner. The
pressures and temperatures are variable between 300 to 500 atmospheres
and 300 to 500 degrees C. It depends on how much equipment you can
afford to buy, with higher temps and pressures making lots more NH3
faster than lower temps and/or lower pressures.

If you paid them enough money you could skip the ammonia part and just
buy the hydrogen in the first place. Although why on earth you would
want hydrogen, I can't imagine, since you get all the same pollution
as if you burned the natural gas in the first place, since carbon
capture and sequestration is a fairy tale.

Going the other direction, ammonia reformers can crack the NH3 and
deliver H2 for fuel cells, but you can't afford the fuel cells in the
first place, and in the second place most of them are fairy tales too.
Not that I'm a Hydrogen-Hater -- after all I do run the website
http://HydrogenTRUTH.info don't I?

But then again I also run the Ecosyn.us and H2-PV.us websites too.

One teaches how to have food without haber-bosch and the other teaches
how to have energy without pollution. I don't know who's being taught
but 1,000,000 visitors have wiped their muddy feet on my welcome mat.

You know what the really scary thing about Hydrogen is? No, not the
Hindenburg Disaster. It's the fact that a hydrogen pipeline was
installed in 1966 when Lyndon Johnson was president and is still
operating today, and for 35 years people have been talking about "the
Hydrogen Economy" and statements like the following can exist:

DOE Hydrogen Pipeline Working Group Workshop 2005 hpwgw_proceed05.pdf
http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/hpwgw_proceed05.pdf
Slide 14 of 19
Q: Does a 0.5% leakage rate as a 2015 target for hydrogen pipelines
seem realistic?
A: It is believed that hydrogen leakage is no different than natural
gas leakage with today's technology. The actual leakage rate in
today's hydrogen pipelines is unknown - but we do know it is
relatively small.

You got that? It's 2007 and nobody has even checked how much hydrogen
leaks although there's 410,000 webpages that claims it leaks really
really bad.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Hydrogen+Pipeline+Leaks+%7C+leakage&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Results about 410,000 for Hydrogen Pipeline Leaks | leakage.

You'd be surprised how much else passes for Hydrogen wisdom that has
no credible sources.

On Feb 28, 6:51 am, C...@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/28/2007 7:24:31 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>

> paul.oliv...@esrint.com writes:
>
> What would you say about the possibility of gasifying biomass, producing
> hydrogen, and converting that hydrogen into ammonia? With ammonia, a lot can
> happen.
>
> Paul Olivier
>
> Paul I have gasified animal manure and reduced ammonia to hydrogen. I
> wonder what it would take to go the other way.
>
> But with fuel cells, etc, it may be good to crack the ammonia and produce
> hydrogen from manure.
>
> Neal

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