Re: Storage
CA...@aol.com
Can Tallow tree biomass not be baled and stored under a roof?
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Cascone, Ronald
Paul/Neal: With all due respect, for energy commodities, we can’t be thinking of the kinds of labor-intensive models we have for horticulture, vegetable crops, and animal fodder handling. Baling and stacking, etc. will probably not make sense. WE are assuming that real estate is free, and labor is third-world.
We should be thinking in terms of machinery analogous to a corn or soybean combine for harvesting, consolidating (by whatever means), and mass storage in a low-risk (of losses) situation. This will probably need to involve chopping and densification of some sort, with perhaps addition of a silage preservative such as formic acid (easily made from syngas by the Bethlehem process – for which I have co-authored two associated patents).
Ron
Paul Olivier
Ron,
I like very much the gasification option for the Tallow tree biomass with subsequent conversion of hydrogen into ammonia. But it does not make sense to gasifiy biomass of a moisture content greater than 50%.
If the biomass were chipped to the right size, why could it not be baled? Baling is not an expensive option. The farmer could store bales for delivery throughout the year.
Paul A. Olivier
ESR International LLC
From:
iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cascone, Ronald
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007
1:16 AM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Storage
CA...@aol.com
If the biomass were chipped to the right size, why could it not be baled? Baling is not an expensive option. The farmer could store bales for delivery throughout the year.
Paul Olivier
Neal,
Bagasse is made up of small bits of cane fiber at 50% moisture, and this bagasse can be easily compacted into bales. American Baler designed a special bagasse baler that produces large rectangular bales. The particles are small, but they are held under compression that binds the particles together.
I know nothing about baling technology, but I would imagine there are several key elements: the grain size of the mulched Tallow biomass (as large as possible), the size and shape of the bale, the level of compression, the number of straps and so forth. Simply mulching the biomass increases the bulk density of the biomass tremendously, and if we add to this a fairly high level of compression, we should be able to achieve a high bulk density.
Woody biomass from wildfire prevention and forest health improvement projects is a significant source of feedstock for bio refineries, combustion energy facilities and other value-added uses. Baling into large rectangular bales offers increased bulk density and easier handling for local and long-distance transportation. By preserving large piece sizes, value potential is maximized. We conducted a problem analysis across the Western US that included surveys, interviews and site visits. Subsequent technology analyses and ideation resulted in a conclusion that prefers large rectangular bales as the handling unit. http://asae.frymulti.com/abstract.asp?aid=21073&t=2
Paul A. Olivier
From:
iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of CA...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007
11:17 AM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Storage
In a message dated 3/7/2007 7:34:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, paul.o...@esrint.com writes:
Breitenbeck, Gary A.
Its Spring here, time for agronomists to be in the field. I’m a bit behind on my email, but the current consensus seems to be that tallow trees be gasified. If there was discussion of relative NPP (net primary production), I missed it. For tallow tree is to compete as a feedstock for gasification, it must compare favorably to switchgrass and many other plants with high NPP on low input. Grasses and some broadleaf plants can be harvested and stored as large bales using conventional equipment.
I still believe tallow trees have a future as an oilseed crop on non-ag land. Below is a paragraph I lifted from a grant we recently submitted:
“ …nearly all of the recently constructed or planned ethanol and biodiesel facilities …rely on more conventional technologies. As of February 2006, the annual capacity of the U.S. ethanol sector was 4.4 billion gallons, and plants under construction or expansion are likely to add another 2.1 billion gallons within the next year. If this trend and the existing and anticipated policy incentives in support of ethanol continue, U.S. ethanol production could reach 7 billion gallons in 2010. Nearly all of this new capacity intends to use corn, not lignocellulose, as its primary feedstock (Baker and Zahniser, 2006). The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) reports a similar rapid expansion in biodiesel facilities. As of September, 2006, the US contained 86 biodiesel facilities with a combined capacity of 480.6 million gallons/yr. Some process waste cooking oil, but most facilities depend on fresh vegetable oil, primarily soy oil. According to the NBB, and addition 36 facilities are under construction. Existing facilities require 3.65 billion pounds of oil per year to maintain full capacity. Demand will increase to 5.61 billion pounds when new facilities come on line in the next year or two, an amount equivalent to about 28% of the current US vegetable oil demand. In 2006, the US imported about 40% of its vegetable oil. It is doubtful that we can rely on imported soy or other seed oils to meet rising US demand, as most countries supplying imported oil also have aggressive biodiesel development underway. Clearly, the expansion of ethanol and biodiesel capacity will require a substantially increased feedstock supply in the US and throughout the world.”
From:
iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Olivier
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007
3:58 AM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Storage
Paul Olivier
See comments in blue.
Paul A. Olivier
ESR International LLC
From:
iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Breitenbeck, Gary A.
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:53
AM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Storage
Its Spring here, time for agronomists to be in the field. I’m a bit behind on my email, but the current consensus seems to be that tallow trees be gasified. If there was discussion of relative NPP (net primary production), I missed it. For tallow tree is to compete as a feedstock for gasification, it must compare favorably to switchgrass and many other plants with high NPP on low input. Grasses and some broadleaf plants can be harvested and stored as large bales using conventional equipment.
I still believe tallow trees have a future as an oilseed crop on non-ag land. Below is a paragraph I lifted from a grant we recently submitted:
If we have shifted attention to Tallow tree biomass, this does not mean that we have forgotten the importance of Tallow tree oil.
Gary, are there Louisiana laws that forbid the planting of Tallow trees?
“ …nearly all of the recently constructed or planned ethanol and biodiesel facilities …rely on more conventional technologies. As of February 2006, the annual capacity of the U.S. ethanol sector was 4.4 billion gallons, and plants under construction or expansion are likely to add another 2.1 billion gallons within the next year. If this trend and the existing and anticipated policy incentives in support of ethanol continue, U.S. ethanol production could reach 7 billion gallons in 2010. Nearly all of this new capacity intends to use corn, not lignocellulose, as its primary feedstock (Baker and Zahniser, 2006). The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) reports a similar rapid expansion in biodiesel facilities. As of September, 2006, the US contained 86 biodiesel facilities with a combined capacity of 480.6 million gallons/yr. Some process waste cooking oil, but most facilities depend on fresh vegetable oil, primarily soy oil. According to the NBB, and addition 36 facilities are under construction. Existing facilities require 3.65 billion pounds of oil per year to maintain full capacity. Demand will increase to 5.61 billion pounds when new facilities come on line in the next year or two, an amount equivalent to about 28% of the current US vegetable oil demand. In 2006, the US imported about 40% of its vegetable oil. It is doubtful that we can rely on imported soy or other seed oils to meet rising US demand, as most countries supplying imported oil also have aggressive biodiesel development underway. Clearly, the expansion of ethanol and biodiesel capacity will require a substantially increased feedstock supply in the US and throughout the world.”
This is so well written.
Thanks.
Paul
Paul Olivier
Ron,
I do not understand what you mean by the labor-intensive aspect of baling. What other process could be less labor-intensive? The biomass needs to be mulched and compacted and aerated. All of this can be achieved with bales. The bales have to support a provisional and inexpensive roof structure. What could be simpler? Bales are stored with the farmer and are only brought to a processing facility when their moisture level has dropped to an acceptable level.
Yes, there could be a loss of volatiles, but this should be less than with torrefication. What makes a silo with formic acid less expensive? Does it not take energy to make formic acid?
Thanks.
Paul
Paul A. Olivier
ESR International LLC
From:
iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cascone, Ronald
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007
1:16 AM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Storage
Breitenbeck, Gary A.
Paul: CTT is considered a noxious weed in Louisiana. If there are laws restricting planting, I have not been able to discover them. In any case, if we successfully establish CTT as a viable alternative crop for land no longer suitable for agriculture because of saltwater intrusion, I’m sure the guys in the Louisiana Dept of Ag will work with us in developing appropriate management plans to control invasion while producing profitable crops to meet an urgent domestic demand. At present, we are gaining industry support from biodiesel investors capable of lending lobby support if necessary (remember how things work in Louisiana?). Also, if some of our bioenergy initiatives are funded, we will develop elite lines of CTT not capable of reproduction from seed. --Gary
From:
iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Olivier
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007
6:04 PM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Storage
See comments in blue.
Paul A. Olivier
ESR International LLC
From:
iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Breitenbeck, Gary A.
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:53
AM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Storage
Its Spring here, time for agronomists to be in the field. I’m a bit behind on my email, but the current consensus seems to be that tallow trees be gasified. If there was discussion of relative NPP (net primary production), I missed it. For tallow tree is to compete as a feedstock for gasification, it must compare favorably to switchgrass and many other plants with high NPP on low input. Grasses and some broadleaf plants can be harvested and stored as large bales using conventional equipment.
I still believe tallow trees have a future as an oilseed crop on non-ag land. Below is a paragraph I lifted from a grant we recently submitted:
If we have shifted attention to Tallow tree biomass, this does not mean that we have forgotten the importance of Tallow tree oil.
Gary, are there Louisiana laws that forbid the planting of Tallow trees?
“ …nearly all of the recently constructed or planned ethanol and biodiesel facilities …rely on more conventional technologies. As of February 2006, the annual capacity of the U.S. ethanol sector was 4.4 billion gallons, and plants under construction or expansion are likely to add another 2.1 billion gallons within the next year. If this trend and the existing and anticipated policy incentives in support of ethanol continue, U.S. ethanol production could reach 7 billion gallons in 2010. Nearly all of this new capacity intends to use corn, not lignocellulose, as its primary feedstock (Baker and Zahniser, 2006). The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) reports a similar rapid expansion in biodiesel facilities. As of September, 2006, the US contained 86 biodiesel facilities with a combined capacity of 480.6 million gallons/yr. Some process waste cooking oil, but most facilities depend on fresh vegetable oil, primarily soy oil. According to the NBB, and addition 36 facilities are under construction. Existing facilities require 3.65 billion pounds of oil per year to maintain full capacity. Demand will increase to 5.61 billion pounds when new facilities come on line in the next year or two, an amount equivalent to about 28% of the current US vegetable oil demand. In 2006, the US imported about 40% of its vegetable oil. It is doubtful that we can rely on imported soy or other seed oils to meet rising US demand, as most countries supplying imported oil also have aggressive biodiesel development underway. Clearly, the expansion of ethanol and biodiesel capacity will require a substantially increased feedstock supply in the US and throughout the world.”
This is so well written.
Thanks.
Paul
From:
iobb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Olivier
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007
3:58 AM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Storage
Neal,
Bagasse is made up of small bits of cane fiber at 50% moisture, and this bagasse can be easily compacted into bales. American Baler designed a special bagasse baler that produces large rectangular bales. The particles are small, but they are held under compression that binds the particles together.
I know nothing about baling technology, but I would imagine there are several key elements: the grain size of the mulched Tallow biomass (as large as possible), the size and shape of the bale, the level of compression, the number of straps and so forth. Simply mulching the biomass increases the bulk density of the biomass tremendously, and if we add to this a fairly high level of compression, we should be able to achieve a high bulk density.
Woody biomass from wildfire prevention and forest health improvement projects is a significant source of feedstock for bio refineries, combustion energy facilities and other value-added uses. Baling into large rectangular bales offers increased bulk density and easier handling for local and long-distance transportation. By preserving large piece sizes, value potential is maximized. We conducted a problem analysis across the Western US that included surveys, interviews and site visits. Subsequent technology analyses and ideation resulted in a conclusion that prefers large rectangular bales as the handling unit. http://asae.frymulti.com/abstract.asp?aid=21073&t=2
Paul A. Olivier
From: iobb...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:iobb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of CA...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007
11:17 AM
To: iobb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TALLOW TREE] Re: Storage
In a message dated 3/7/2007 7:34:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, paul.o...@esrint.com writes:
If the biomass were chipped to the right size, why could it not be baled? Baling is not an expensive option. The farmer could store bales for delivery throughout the year.
Paul, what I see are tons of smallish chips being compressed into a bale but what to restrain them? Normally bales are kept together with twine or wire. I can't see what would hold the bales except maybe plastic wrap or netting. Do you have something else in mind?
Neal